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VC10er
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Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:19 am

Living in NYC I feel bombarded with Delta advertising everywhere, TV, print, billboards and phone booths. Until recently AA owned taxi tops but cut TV, but AA has a lot of print eg; the NYT and the WSJ. Once and a while a blue tourist bus goes by with a huge (dumb in my opinion) CREATING A NEW FLIGHT PLAN plastered on the shrink wrapped double decker with a tiny UNITED in the top corner. Even TAM has more visibility than UNITED.

With EWR as one of their MAJOR* hubs, the NEED to communicate Continental no longer exists and it's now UA...where are the ads? What is McGary/Bowen billing for? Not that hidious stuff they have now? That doesn't even count as advertising: they are signs with dumb, undiffereciated sayings.

And some criticized the "animation" ads?

Are real ads running in IAD, ORD, SFO or any other of their 8 or 10 hubs?

Also, Delta's PR machine is working the LAG new terminal to death.

Has United/Continental Holdings decided above the line ads don't work?

*didn't I read that United has the most international non-stops than any other carrier out of NY?
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codc10
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:25 am

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
*didn't I read that United has the most international non-stops than any other carrier out of NY?

UA has more international flights out of EWR than any other carrier at the three NYC airports EWR/JFK/LGA. The "NY" distinction has a history of getting us sidetracked into a discussion of semantics.  

DL has ratcheted up its NYC ad presence while UA has seemingly faded in recent months. United's new post-merger ad campaign is supposed to commence sometime in 2012, concurrent with a website relaunch, so I assume NYC will be a major focus once that gets rolling.
 
gman3
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:30 am

Well hopefully a huge ad campaign will come to fruition. As a native of the area and a FA, I only flew United once in my whole before. It seemed like it was always Eastern or Delta to Floida and American to the West Coast. So we shall see how markieting and advertising goes now
 
BC77008
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:54 am

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):

*didn't I read that United has the most international non-stops than any other carrier out of NY?[/quote]
Yes you did read that, from a United ad. See their ads are apparently working!   I think UA has tried to downplay the whole "Continental doesn't exists, we are UA now" message, especially in CO's stronghold cities of New York and Houston. CO had a loyal following and a pretty stellar reputation when compared to its peers. In places like EWR and IAH it's been pretty much business as usual, the look and feel is very much Continental. I think he new UA has been more focused on communicating to its strongholds in places like ORD and SFO the fact that they are still United, with a new look.
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VC10er
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:56 am

It is a NYC area airport. I live here and it is a very viable option. In fact from downtown it's faster than JFK. Leaving JFK for Europe is often hell with traffic and long taxi waits. Better plane spotting at JFK but once through the Holland Tunnel (which can be hell too, but it's getting better with the Boomberg laws)

How does EWR rank in domestic connections?

Also: with the CO livery and the United name, many people are still confused. Those friends of mine who don't follow any airline anything always call me for clarification. They are also many Star Contracts in NYC. Right now Delta looks like the BIG airline in NYC. United needs advertising fast. TV and digital.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
codc10
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:14 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 4):
Right now Delta looks like the BIG airline in NYC.

They may "look" like the big airline, but they still take a back seat in terms of corporate contracts to UA and AA, although it's not for a lack of trying.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 4):

Also: with the CO livery and the United name, many people are still confused.

Said individuals would be best served emerging from the rock they've spent the better part of the last two years under, as the initial livery was first unveiled in May 2010.  
 
CXA330300
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:13 am

Three reasons, off the top of my head:

1. United already does well moving a ton of connections via EWR.
2. Much of EWR's base is in NJ and PA, so their advertising can be minimal in NY and they're still OK.

Most importantly....

3. CO built a huge loyal flyer base in NYC with their ads and service in the pre-merger years, much of which stayed post-merger. UA doesn't need help. They've already got the prize. And unlike DL, they haven't had trouble keeping it.
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gothamspotter
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:26 am

Delta is spending over a $1 billion at their JFK and LGA terminals, and will soon have more NY flights than UA. They really, really want to win NY, that's why they're advertising.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:08 pm

Maybe united/continental has a more loyal group and they don't need to spend as my much money on advertising. It's probably a good thing that united doesn't need to waste as much on advertising. EWR is an extremely valuable and profitable hub much larger than b6, AA or dl at JFK.

Delta has to advertise they are expanding lga and the jfk domestic buildup alot is recent. Delta needs to get lga seats filled with all these new flights.

For AA ny is part of the cornerstone strategy and they have a somewhat weak hub compared to the one stop massive UA hub at EWR. It makes sense that they need to spend the money on advertising
 
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STT757
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:16 pm

No amount of advertising is going to change people's reaction to T-3.
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tommy767
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:39 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 4):
Also: with the CO livery and the United name, many people are still confused. Those friends of mine who don't follow any airline anything always call me for clarification. They are also many Star Contracts in NYC. Right now Delta looks like the BIG airline in NYC. United needs advertising fast. TV and digital.

United needs to roll out a new ad messaging platform first. Their ex-CO advertising method (which I hoped to God when they first announced the merger in 2010 they would never stick with) seems to be the temporary model they are using. But man, it is horrid and needs immediate improvement.

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 6):
3. CO built a huge loyal flyer base in NYC with their ads and service in the pre-merger years, much of which stayed post-merger. UA doesn't need help. They've already got the prize. And unlike DL, they haven't had trouble keeping it.

I don't think that kind of vague and bland advertising got people on board to fly CO. They flew CO because they had a large hub at EWR. As a matter of fact CO did advertising on NYC cabs like AA did back in 2007-2008 which I notice is a strategy they are not using anymore. Likely because it was costly and ineffective.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):

No amount of advertising is going to change people's reaction to T-3.

Same thing regarding people's negative reaction of Terminal C.
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STT757
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
Same thing regarding people's negative reaction of Terminal C.

Is that even a fair comparison? Honestly, Terminal C is light years ahead of T-3. C-3 alone is about the size of T-3 and blows it away.
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tommy767
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):

Yes but it's dirty, the ga's are grumpy, the security lines are more than insane, no hot food offered at UA clubs, TSA have axe to grind and of course Delays, delays, delays. T-3 is dated but it's got it's charm being the former PAA terminal.
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:10 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 1):
DL has ratcheted up its NYC ad presence while UA has seemingly faded in recent months. United's new post-merger ad campaign is supposed to commence sometime in 2012, concurrent with a website relaunch, so I assume NYC will be a major focus once that gets rolling.

I would hope so. I've been really impressed with the most recent push by DL's ad team.
 
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
What is McGary/Bowen billing for? Not that hidious stuff they have now? That doesn't even count as advertising: they are signs with dumb, undiffereciated sayings.

The current advertising is a temporary campaign from Kaplan Thaler Group, CO's old ad agency. The first campaign from mcgarrybowen hasn't been introduced yet. As said before:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 1):
United's new post-merger ad campaign is supposed to commence sometime in 2012, concurrent with a website relaunch, so I assume NYC will be a major focus once that gets rolling.
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STT757
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:15 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 12):
T-3 is dated but it's got it's charm being the former PAA terminal.

I can assure you that doesn't mean anything to almost everyone, save the A-net folks, who travels through T-3. I think they would rather have a clean restroom, speaking of which;



Quote:
Plan to improve NYC airports starts with bathrooms
Quote:
Delta has also committed $1.2 billion to overhauling its facilities at Kennedy, home to the airline's Terminal 3, which the Frommer's list named the world's worst terminal.

"Terminal 3 is known for endless immigration lines in a dank basement, for an utter lack of food and shopping options, three crowded and confusing entry points, hallways that could have been designed by M.C. Escher and for vomiting international travelers out onto an underground sidewalk with no cabs available," said the ranking.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501843_1...yc-airports-starts-with-bathrooms/

Quite a dramatic visual with the "Vomiting" reference to T-3, where's Gail to spin it?
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T5towbar
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:29 pm

You probably will see the new commercials by the time the Olympics roll around. We saw the animated commercials that UA had with Robert Redford's voice a whole lot during the 2008 Summer Games, and I'm quite sure that they will have a major blitz then, since there will be a ton of viewers.
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csavel
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:25 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
No amount of advertising is going to change people's reaction to T-3.

Yeah but I take a contrarian view and while T3 is bad, most people won't base what airline to fly on the dinginess of the terminal. After all the goal of most people (people who don't post on A.net) is to get through the terminal as fast as possible. It might be easier to take a 4 hour delay in T4 than T3, that is for sure, but really, would anyone *choose* an airline based on its terminal? Very few unless the terminal was known for long lines, surly TSA agents or reallly crowsed customs and immigration. On the last one T3 *is* in fact worse that others.
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CO777DAL
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:39 am

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
I don't think that kind of vague and bland advertising got people on board to fly CO.

So your telling me this didn't work?   

Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
tommy767
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:57 am

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 18):
So your telling me this didn't work?

YUCK!   
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BC77008
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:00 am

CO's advertising was effective. It was print advertising that offered one sentence factoids or quips about the company or its services. One of my favorites of theirs: MARTINI'S ARRIVE SHAKEN OR STIRRED. YOU DON'T. An ad touting their BusinessFirst service. I know their ads didn't create lofty dreams of flight and feature airplanes gliding through the clouds carrying the business man home to his family, but their ads were effective. You knew after seeing it for 3 seconds that they flew the youngest jet fleet or had the most departures from NYC.

And someone said a few posts ago that EWR term C is dirty but I'm there almost every day and can assure you it's not. Would I eat off the floor? No. But I wouldn't classify it as a dirty facility.
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skycub
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:06 am

Could it be for the same reason that you don't see much advertising for American or Southwest here in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex? Those carriers already have a loyal following a captive clientele who know that American and Southwest are the two airlines that can get them to virtually anyplace they want to go from here. Why waste money advertising it?

Heck, driving through DFW Airport the past few months, I have seen large ads for Qantas, US Airways and Virgin America. All being carriers that may want to enhance their awareness to travelers in the Metroplex. Yet, nothing for American... because people in the DFW area already know American can get them virtually anywhere they want to go.

The same can be said for Love Field. Although Southwest has a "Home of Free Bags" billboard outside of Love Field, it is a far cry from the NUMEROUS "El Paso Pronto," "Houston, We Have Lift-Off," "Amarillo By Morning" and "Oklahoma Sooner" ads that used to cover the route from I-35 to Love Field.

It's a matter of cost. People in Dallas/Fort Worth know American and Southwest. People in New York knew Continental and I am sure most of them know its now United.

Why spend money advertising something people already know?

People aren't stupid. They know who their hometown carrier is, for the most part. In Dallas/Fort Worth it's American and Southwest. I am sure Delta doesn't have to advertise too heavily in Atlanta. In New York, people are smart enough to know that today's United is yesterday's Continental.

If not, the ONLY advertising United needs to do does not need to pertain to all of the cities they fly to from Newark, but the fact that today's United IS Continental.
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VC10er
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:30 am

Can we make this less about Teminals, please! Thanks.

Well, advertising does work. And going dark hurts. Pre Merged Continental, despite the fact they ran out of clever lines a decade ago, the unchanged blue ads were everywhere...and the really dumb TV ads like the one that takes place in Asia in a conference room and everyone else in the room has passed out from jet lag...except the guy who flew BF on Continental (even though BF was the OLDEST style business class hard product in the world with a regular chair vs a bed seat) and the TV series of ads of the regular goofy business man who runs around Manhattan flaunting all the food and wine expertise he gained from flying Continental... Well I may have puked everytime I saw those ads but it made CO look like THEY OWNED MANHATTAN! And awareness, while not as important as differentiation, is critical. Going dark as United has in NYC with Delta cranking out great ads is dangerous. And what makes me really scratch my head is all the "Brand Truth's" they can brag about: the 787, $500,000,000 in improvements to aircraft, best route map in the world, 3 classes to select cities...and not just a real First Class but the new BF "flat beds" vs those 17th century recliners! It always amazed me how much some of my business associates loved CO despite the seat and just 2 classes of service. (?)

Anyway, I feel like UNITED needs a MAJOR splash, like a giant sign in Times Square...or perhaps a giant 787 (like the old BA Concorde) but hanging over heads with wire banking so we can see the United branding and the old Continenental livery. But they really need to hurry up and get rid of those extremely ugly ad-like signs they have with the super graphic of the globe behind the orange type. One thing the PMUA did fabulously well was design. It all died when Pentagram was cut loose.
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codc10
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:03 am

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 12):

Yes but it's dirty, the ga's are grumpy, the security lines are more than insane, no hot food offered at UA clubs, TSA have axe to grind and of course Delays, delays, delays. T-3 is dated but it's got it's charm being the former PAA terminal.

That charm fades away real quick when one of T3's resident pigeons unloads its bowels on your luggage (or worse, your head).  

Are you saying JFK and T3 are immune to those other (mostly subjective) problems you cite?

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 20):

And someone said a few posts ago that EWR term C is dirty but I'm there almost every day and can assure you it's not. Would I eat off the floor? No. But I wouldn't classify it as a dirty facility.

Agreed. It's entirely adequate and I've never found it to be a dirty facility. Then again, my 60+ visits per year might make me blind to its failings. Still, I would argue that there are nearly a dozen worse terminals in the NYC area alone!

Quoting VC10er (Reply 22):
It always amazed me how much some of my business associates loved CO despite the seat and just 2 classes of service. (?)

Are you amazed by the possibility that someone not traveling in United First could actually have a good flight?  
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:21 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):

For someone who acts like they know as much about NYC as you those comments seem a bit childish. T3 is about to be a very nice parking lot. Sad, you could pick a good bit of targets but THATS what you go with?  
 
nycdave
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:15 pm

There's one major thing people are forgetting here:

NYC is the single most expensive media market in the US, by a huge margin. If you're pouring ad dollars into NYC, you're taking it from somewhere else... so you'd better have a good justification to shareholders why you're putting your marketing budget into that, or why you're pouring extra money into your marketing budget to cover it, and taking it from operational areas.

DL and B6 have good reasons -- they're at JFK and LGA, which are highly competitive. DL is expanding and changing operations at both airports, and wants to get the word out about their improvements (also, sorry folks, but DL's T3 at JFK is such a notable disaster you even find columnists in the NYTimes talking about how pathetic it makes us look as a country! It really does turn off travelers who have a choice of carrier at JFK - you will see a HUGE ad push when the T4 move happens).

UA, on the other hand, has a fortress at EWR and has to do very little to defend their position... and have limited room to improve it. The ROI on advertising in NYC would probably be incredibly poor. If they expanded LGA or built a new terminal there, launched new service at JFK, or the PATH ran directly to EWR, they might have a reason for a big campaign. But at present, there's not.

CO never had a huge ad presence in NYC, except when they did big roll-outs, like BF. They mostly kept it cheap (MTA and poster ads), centered in areas (downtown, midtown), where they had the best chance to draw NYC pax.
 
tommy767
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:45 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
I can assure you that doesn't mean anything to almost everyone, save the A-net folks, who travels through T-3. I think they would rather have a clean restroom, speaking of which;

Oh give me a break. There are plenty of clean restrooms in T-3. It's not as bad as people make it out to be.

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 20):

CO's advertising was effective. It was print advertising that offered one sentence factoids or quips about the company or its services.

It's actually not that effective because not everyone wants to read a snarky line on a billboard. Most people would respond better to image with picture -- something the most recent DL had. It's stylish, informative, and effective. I feel like people would read a CO ad and be like "what does that even mean? I don't get it." Their ads were too complicated for their own good.

CO advertised in their hub markets if anything to boast minor awareness and some bragging rights. But with everybody and their mother in Houston and Jersey flying CO, I wouldn't call it effective. They had their audience in the bag. And again, 5-6 years ago CO ran a massive ad campaign in NYC and it's NOT around today. That says something about their ads being effective in one of their core hub markets.

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 20):
And someone said a few posts ago that EWR term C is dirty but I'm there almost every day and can assure you it's not. Would I eat off the floor? No. But I wouldn't classify it as a dirty facility.

It's all around a pretty dirty facility. It's amazing how Global Gateway looks all scuffed up and it's only 10 years old. There's a lot of passengers running through that facility hence the wear and tear.

Quoting SkyCub (Reply 21):
If not, the ONLY advertising United needs to do does not need to pertain to all of the cities they fly to from Newark, but the fact that today's United IS Continental.

We've said before this is clearly NOT the case. United purchased Continental and it's technically a merger of equals.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 23):
That charm fades away real quick when one of T3's resident pigeons unloads its bowels on your luggage (or worse, your head).

Ever been down to the baggage claim in Terminal C? Not only are their pigeons, but during downtime it's a run down ghost town.
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codc10
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:13 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 26):
Ever been down to the baggage claim in Terminal C? Not only are their pigeons, but during downtime it's a run down ghost town.

I despise checking bags, but when I do, yes, I'm quite familiar with the place.

I wouldn't call it run down (after all, it didn't exist prior to 2000) but it certainly can be a ghost town during "downtime". I don't see how that's relevant.

Anyway, comparing JFK/T3, which is generally accepted to be one of the worst airline terminals in the world, with EWR/C is silly. It's not an attack on Delta. There's a reason why the entire facility will be torn down and replaced by a gorgeous new concourse.
 
stlgph
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:22 pm

Quite simply, United has too many internal kinks to work out before rolling forward with a huge advertising campaign. Spending all kinds of money to have all kinds of "little things" blow up in your face ... not such a good investment.

Delta's ready to roll and ready to play.

There's been talk of a few creative strategies ... one local tv morning show has been approached about broadcasting live from a plane.
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STT757
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 28):
There's been talk of a few creative strategies ... one local tv morning show has been approached about broadcasting live from a plane.

It has to be Channel five, they're the tacky morning offering in NY. Rossana Scotto= nails on blackboard.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 27):
Anyway, comparing JFK/T3, which is generally accepted to be one of the worst airline terminals in the world, with EWR/C is silly. It's not an attack on Delta. There's a reason why the entire facility will be torn down and replaced by a gorgeous new concourse.

Exactly, Westfield runs Terminal C's concessions which are the best offerings of any of the airport facilities in the NY area;

http://www.shopnewarkterminalc.com/
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:31 pm

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
Also, Delta's PR machine is working the LAG new terminal to death.

You're right about that!! LOL. IFS has even instructed F/As with inbound flights to LGA to mention the new flights and terminal (well suggested; they don't HAVE to but it is a part of the script now time permitting).

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
No amount of advertising is going to change people's reaction to T-3.

Just like how it's changed their reaction over the past 7 years (DL's biggest expansion since Pan Am) and effectively ate AA's lunch while they enjoyed a brand new terminal? Yeah, okay. Just like how you claim that people will protest in droves over the connector between 2 and 4. If they haven't left in droves over the past 20 years; it ain't goin' to happen with an updated terminal.

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 18):

So your telling me this didn't work?

I actually like it!! What I always thought was funny though was the many cheap shots DL and CO took at each other in NYC advertising...while they were in the same alliance!

Quoting STT757 (Reply 29):
It has to be Channel five, they're the tacky morning offering in NY. Rossana Scotto= nails on blackboard.

You are SOOO petty!!! Good grief! LOL

[Edited 2012-04-17 09:37:45]
What gets measured gets done.
 
tommy767
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:35 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 29):
Exactly, Westfield runs Terminal C's concessions which are the best offerings of any of the airport facilities in the NY area;

Yet, because of Westfield UA can't offer hot food options to international first class pax who pay a ton of money for tickets. Greedy station managers at EWR would rather have them eat at a McDonalds below the United Club  
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 12):
Yes but it's dirty, the ga's are grumpy, the security lines are more than insane, no hot food offered at UA clubs, TSA have axe to grind and of course Delays, delays, delays. T-3 is dated but it's got it's charm being the former PAA terminal.

WOW total a.net way to look at it! lol 99.999% of delta traffic sees no charm in that dump. I personally hate everything about that terminal. Its charm is feeling like you are in a third world country without leaving the US.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 27):
Anyway, comparing JFK/T3, which is generally accepted to be one of the worst airline terminals in the world, with EWR/C is silly. It's not an attack on Delta. There's a reason why the entire facility will be torn down and replaced by a gorgeous new concourse.

EWR/C works JFK/T3 doesnt plain and simple. T3 cant even be renovated it needs the total do over
 
tommy767
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 32):

Enjoy T-3 while you can. It's going to be gone soon  
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
codc10
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:32 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 33):

Enjoy T-3 while you can. It's going to be gone soon

I think it looks a lot better in pictures, anyway! To say that The Worldport has seen better days is perhaps the understatement of the century... time marches on, I suppose. The new concourse will be a dramatic improvement and befitting of Delta's status as the biggest player at JFK.
 
tommy767
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 34):

Amen to that. I'd also like to add that DL has sunk millions into the Rotunda area. Perhaps they are pulling the plug because it costs them so much money. On the flip side, I think T-2 is a giant piece of garbage. It's hard to believe they are keeping that around. The whole building reeks of the Wendy's that is outside of the security area.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
codc10
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 35):
On the flip side, I think T-2 is a giant piece of garbage.

That will be the next perennial A.net topic: When will DL replace JFK T2?
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 20):
CO's advertising was effective. It was print advertising that offered one sentence factoids or quips about the company or its services. One of my favorites of theirs: MARTINI'S ARRIVE SHAKEN OR STIRRED. YOU DON'T. An ad touting their BusinessFirst service. I know their ads didn't create lofty dreams of flight and feature airplanes gliding through the clouds carrying the business man home to his family, but their ads were effective. You knew after seeing it for 3 seconds that they flew the youngest jet fleet or had the most departures from NYC.

  

Kaplan Thaler Group's campaign for CO may have gotten a lot of flack here on a.net, but people seem to forget that "Work Hard, Fly Right" was remarkably effective for its entire 13-year run. It may not have been whimsical like PMUA's animated ads by BDM, but it delivered results. Per Kap Thaler's website, CO's ad awareness doubled, brand preference for CO shot up 31%, and "Work Hard, Fly Right" had the highest tagline recall in the airline industry of 54% (though it didn't say whether it was for CO hubs only or across the board).

That said, I look forward to mcgarrybowen's first ads for UA. While not overly flashy, mcgarrybowen does very good work... for example, you can instantly tell an ad for Chase by the black and white filming with a glowing blue Chase logo.
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nycdave
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:46 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 37):
for example, you can instantly tell an ad for Chase by the black and white filming with a glowing blue Chase logo.

...as well as starring one of my classmates from a UCB improv course!  
 
VC10er
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:29 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 23):

You're right...I didn't and should have included those CO pax who had great experiences in economy. However, I was thinking business travel when I posted. I found in the last few years of CO advertising focused on their BF product. And I personally (sample size of 8 people) were willing to fly long haul in an agreed very uncomfortable seat (vs choosing Cathay to HK or Swiss to Geneva) on flights that cost the same (CO BF WAS NOT CHEAP) which did say a lot about CO customer service no doubt.

But back to discussing ADVERTISING, United does not need to pay hundreds of millions of paid media. Every marketeer knows that the best way to spend money on support is brilliant below the media line and activation. NYC is the most competitive market in the nation for airlines, but IMHO going as dark as UA has seems like a bad idea (especially to someone in a related industry to advertising)

I would like to talk about some other great posts. The one about the very non-creative ads but extremely effective ones from the Thayer Group (who also did Aflac) - IMHO they seem to be experts at doing bad advertising that works..vs...the beautiful and artistic United animated ads which had "the worst" ad line in history..."it's time to fly". I used to think "so what if it's time to fly" sometimes it's time to go to the men's room? After such beautiful ads it needed "Fly the Friendly Sky's" back. Except the UA staff was not friendly anymore. Not like the 70's!

But UNITED is just handing the spotlight to Delta. Although, there is no bigger mistake in advertising than leading a consumer to a brand then having the consumer be disappointed. Like Little Caesar's pizza, great ads: inedible pizza. Perhaps when United finally fixes the god awful computer switch over.

If you were CMO of UNITED, what angle would you play off of most in your comms?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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STT757
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:48 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 39):
Although, there is no bigger mistake in advertising than leading a consumer to a brand then having the consumer be disappointed.

Exactly, DL is putting forward one face to consumers with their advertising in NY and another face at T-3.
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rwsea
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:53 am

The new UA is a marketing catastrophe in all respects - from the outdated and hastily thrown together logo and corporate colors, the crap website, the poor advertising, and more. They could have taken a page from DL's playbook and introduced an all-new logo and marketing campaign, but egos got in the way instead.

What we're seeing in NY is a symptom of the larger problem ... a bunch of egos coming together and stubbornly clinging to the past.
 
tommy767
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:18 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 37):
"Work Hard, Fly Right" was remarkably effective for its entire 13-year run.

It was vague. What does that even mean -- work hard, fly right? It has an elitist connotation to it. Was that supposed to mean that only hard working people fly Continental? That form of advertising is not exactly appealing to the common man for certain.

I'm SURE CO's style of advertising worked for one reason only. They demonstrated their printed and TV ads in their HUB markets. Mainly IAH and EWR only. So if 31 percent more regional fliers agreed the ad was more effective to them -- good for them. CO wasn't exactly going out of their way to put these ad's in markets where they had little presence (AKA: pretty much anywhere outside of Houston or New Jersey.) I only saw one in LA and it was in Long Beach advertising their new Hawaii services from John Wayne.

Quoting rwsea (Reply 41):

The new UA is a marketing catastrophe in all respects - from the outdated and hastily thrown together logo and corporate colors, the crap website, the poor advertising, and more. They could have taken a page from DL's playbook and introduced an all-new logo and marketing campaign, but egos got in the way instead.

Bingo. Mostly PMCO smug egos. PMUA executives are now unfortunately a minority.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
codc10
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:20 pm

Quoting rwsea (Reply 41):
They could have taken a page from DL's playbook and introduced an all-new logo and marketing campaign, but egos got in the way instead.

Everyone seems to forget that Delta's corporate image was not a product of the NW merger, but rather its emergence from Chapter 11, nearly a year in advance of the deal with Northwest. I think most will agree that post-bankruptcy is a more critical time to reinvent a brand than after a so-called 'merger of equals'. Additionally, Delta's current marketing campaign was introduced about a year into the actual merger process. United will roll out a new marketing campaign (that I'm sure will be universally blasted regardless of its merit) some time in 2012, similar to the timing of Delta's "Keep Climbing" motif.
 
tommy767
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:45 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 43):
Everyone seems to forget that Delta's corporate image was not a product of the NW merger, but rather its emergence from Chapter 11, nearly a year in advance of the deal with Northwest.

Absolutely true. I remember it was out in summer 2007 and while then looked awkward, today is now cutting edge. They were onto something good before we all knew it.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:55 pm

Frommers.com, the website of the traveler’s guide book series, included it in its “10 Worst Airport Terminals” feature published in January. It called the airport’s Terminal 3 “the worst single airport terminal in America,” and cited “an utter lack of food and shopping options…hallways that could have been designed by M.C. Escher” and “a sense that the cleaning crew gave up in despair a while ago.”

I can't even imagine there is a terminal that gave t3 jfk any competition its a place where common sense stays at the curb side check in. Alot of these travel legends are not really as bad as folklore but I think t3 often does live up to its reputation unless you are there on a non busy day or time.
 
stlgph
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 42):
It was vague. What does that even mean -- work hard, fly right? It has an elitist connotation to it. Was that supposed to mean that only hard working people fly Continental? That form of advertising is not exactly appealing to the common man for certain.

it was brilliant. it's entirely complimentary to the customer and does not define the customer in anyway, shape, or form as elitist.
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codc10
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 42):
It has an elitist connotation to it. Was that supposed to mean that only hard working people fly Continental?

I was not aware that hard working = elitist? I always thought it kind of cut the other way... be careful, your anti-CO agenda is really showing!  
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 42):
PMUA executives are now unfortunately a minority.

Who would you rather have back? Jake Brace?

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 42):
I'm SURE CO's style of advertising worked for one reason only. They demonstrated their printed and TV ads in their HUB markets. Mainly IAH and EWR only. So if 31 percent more regional fliers agreed the ad was more effective to them -- good for them.

Your argument fails on a few levels.

In general, marketing has moved away from the 'carpet-bombing' approach toward targeted campaigns aimed at specific market segments where the company feels it can capture a higher conversion rate at a premium. Indeed, you'll find few national marketing campaigns anymore from air carriers, they are just too expensive and do not generate sufficient returns.

So, it is a validation of CO's strategy that they targeted certain areas of strength and came away with much stronger brand awareness and loyalty than competitors, which in turn drove growth and a revenue premium.

Finally, most savvy marketers will tell you that throwing advertising dollars into areas of weakness is a losing strategy. CO did not have the infrastructure at LAX to really be a competitive option for local travelers there (i.e. no nonstop or viable connecting point for most intra-West traffic flows) with the exception of limited service to Hawaii, which, as you note, was advertised. Without an investment in additional flying, CO has nothing to differentiate itself from other carriers in the market and it's clear that they did not wish to get involved in the LAX fray.

Much about the former CO model was based on hub-captive traffic, and their marketing budget was spent accordingly.
 
tommy767
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:25 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 47):

Yes I work in marketing. I know all about weak targeting and the cost savings by not throwing money into a market that wouldn't justify the costs. What I'm saying is that CO's marketing was only impressive BECAUSE it had such few hub markets to target. And because their recognition in particular IAH and EWR was high it was a successful campaign from the start (as if they really had to try hard though.) Call the whimsical ad's by PMUA what you will but they had more hub markets to advertise in.

And I still stand by my previous comments. Those PMCO NYC taxi ads have been gone for years so apparently that didn't work out so well.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 47):

Who would you rather have back? Jake Brace?

Kind of a bummer the PMUA head of IT quit over the SHARES thingy.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 47):
I was not aware that hard working = elitist?

I just don't understand -- why should you have to WORK HARD in order to FLY RIGHT?

This is a slogan that has clearly faded into the sunset. You can't compare it to "Something special in the Air," "Fly the Friendly Skies," or even "On top of the world." It was just a weak slogan from the start.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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RE: Why So Little United Ad Support In NYC?

Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:39 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 46):

Funny, I always thought that "Work Hard, Fly Right" was a statement about CONTINENTAL and not US..the business flier. CO throughout my whole life was considered "the worst" of all the big U.S. airlines. When they did the 100% overhaul I always thought their "Worst to First" strategy was that CO employees worked hard and flew right. Two things the previous Continenental didn't do well at all. I never thought "gee I work hard therefore I should fly right with Continental"...I have SQ for that with a bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue!

Also, if the BIG media spend was in NYC and Houston, then their rational to keep the name UNITED was really the correct move. Most big markets around the world United was the most famous (or infamous)

I do worry that a lackluster (and I'm being nice) livery, colors and HORRIBLE ad things are making the "merger of equals" look like a confusing, dogs breakfast and not a 1 + 1 = 10 brand.

I guess we can look back in a decade and see if a star was born in 2011, and not a merger that got out of bed on the wrong side. Big need not be bla!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.

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