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DunaA320
Posts: 530
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:48 pm

VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:21 pm

Another pic

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/mattduna/IMG_4772.jpg
 
virgincrew
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:40 am

VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:40 pm

Quoting MikeCT (Reply 45):
I think the passengers, probably near panic themselves, mistake the crew rushing to get things ready for the landing and subsequent evacuation for panic. I've never experienced it myself, but I'm sure the evacuation itself can also sound like "panicking crew" when they're yelling for everyone to get out, when they're really doing just what they're supposed to be doing.

couldn't agree more .....

when I've evacuated the rig during my SEP training, it could appear as crew panicing. But the nature of the job is to save as many lives and get as many pax's off that aircraft ! The training and procedures are such that it is a fast paced excercise. Cabin crew only have very limited time to prepare an aircraft for an emergency landing and there is alot to do, in terms of securing an aircraft cabin.

The skills & training of cabin crew are always forgotten until something like this happens. We are seen as 'trolley dollies' but those Virgin Crew did a fantastic job getting those pax's off that aircraft safley.
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
dc10bhx
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:34 am

VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:46 pm

Quoting DALCE (Reply 44):
Supposed fire in hold.....somehow my thoughts divert towards lithium batteries???
This has been an issue for a longer period already, so might, repeat, might be a reason.
Anyone with more detailed info about cargo loads on this flight?

Anyone with knowledge of the cargo on board this flight will not disclose it on a public forum such as this.

Please bear in mind that such information will be held pending the relevant authorities making their own investigations. As this flight was going to the US any hazardous shipments will be covered by the US Gvernment regulations concerning this type of cargo.

The regulations concerning Lithium Batteries are restrictive enough for movement by air but after my last course on moving Hazardous Goods by Air (revalidation No 13) I think the rules are going to be made a whole lot more restrictive.

Thankfully the passengers and crew are safe and the investigators can get on now with their job to find out what has happened.
I'm lucky my job is my hobby
 
Glom
Posts: 2056
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:19 pm

Quoting MikeCT (Reply 45):
s for the "I knew something was wrong" and "the plane was wobbly" comments, those are just passengers reading some perceived problem into the problem that actually occurred.

My first thought when reading that comment was, "You're on an A330. Of course it's wobbly." Probably a classic case of someone being confused by the many strange sights and sounds of being on an airliner.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 49):
Better to have kids miss a day of their holiday, than miss the rest of their lives.

And suffer the ignominy of missing Disney World? Better dead than live without a churro.

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 43):
but interesting to hear that the passenger's perception of the crew is that they were panicking.

They were telling them to "evacuate, evacuate, evacuate" like they were trained to. Surely a sign of apoplexy. If you want them to stopping yelling "evacuate" in your ear, the best solution is to do what they say.
 
anstar
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:21 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 37):
That's sad. All those people missing their holiday. Must be a lot of disappointed kids on that plane.

Would have been more disappinting if they had not diverted and the aircraft had caught fire and they all perished.

Now that would be sad.

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 43):
The first bit makes me laugh somewhat....but interesting to hear that the passenger's perception of the crew is that they were panicking.

And some of the reports "The crew were yelling get off get off" and things like " They were not waiting for people to clear the bottom of the slide" and "they were pushing people onto the slide"

Well that is all in the training. The most critical thing in ANY emergency is time. If you don't yell at people and create a sense of urgency, they would probably stroll about the aircraft and get their belongings from the overhead lockers and take their sweet time.

Well done to the flight AND cabin crew for getting the plane down and everyone off as QUICKLY as possible.
 
chuchoteur
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:17 pm

VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:25 pm

From that BBC link:

"Tom Alridge said one of the cabin crew panicked upon landing.
"She was screaming like a banshee - 'Get off, get off' - she was literally pushing people down the chute," he said."

...well, actually she was doing exactly what she should have been doing...
(this said, it is true that if she's got a high-pitched voice, it may have sounded bizarre... but it had the desired effect!)
 
GT4EZY
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VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:51 pm

As crew myself it's really annoying to hear such passenger comments. Granted, we all know the role of cabin crew isn't always fully understood or appreciated by "Joe Passenger" but surely when all crew are shouting commands, the same commands in unison then they would realise that it was something more co-ordinated and intentional. With a fire or potential fire anywhere on the aircraft time is not your best friend.

Pushing passengers (lower back) onto the slides is procedure, particularly when they hesitate. Injuries will always occur in evacuations which is why the decision to evacuate isn't taken lightly in the first place and is actually quite a calculated decision. In an ideal world the crew will have had time to brief the ABP's or the exit row passengers having enough about them to assist and direct passengers at the bottom of the slide. I can picture it now all the passengers hanging around at the bottom of the slides rather than moving away from the aircraft. Hence further injuries.

I hope that perhaps someone will set the story straight to the media so that the crew don't get made to look like a set of idiots. I know if I was one of the crew members today I would be really pissed off considering i'd just helped in a pretty successful evacuation!

As a side. Does anyone think that the typical VS crew member stereotype may have been a factor here? I'm not in anyway suggesting that their training is sub-par (I know it isn't) but alot of airlines seem to have a crew stereotype and the Virgin one tends to be the "dizzy beautiful blonde" girl who is just there to look sexy.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2553
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VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:55 pm

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 43):
"The plane was really wobbly. The cabin crew made things worse. They were all really panicked.
Quoting nclmedic (Reply 43):
The first bit makes me laugh somewhat....but interesting to hear that the passenger's perception of the crew is that they were panicking. All the SEP training I've seen tends to assume that crew have ample time to prepare for an emergency landing (e.g. http://youtu.be/Gg8gZ92t3kw) which was clearly not the case in this incident. I dunno, possibly a factor.

We were on a DL flight ATL-HNL a few weeks ago (also on an A330 interestingly), when about 15 min. after takeoff, we could detect a strange odor, almost as if someone were smoking. A few minutes later, the lead FA rushed up & cracked open one of the forward overhead luggage compartments where a fire extinguisher is kept. They never removed it, but there were LOTS of dings and FAs on the phone, walking a bit more than briskly up & down the aisles with concerned faces, etc.


It turned out to be a small oven fire or overheating element in the midships galley - an FA later told us they were VERY close to deciding to return to ATL. Happened as they were warming the nuts for First Class's cocktail service; they served the nuts anyway-nasty! My VERY frequent flyer partner was quite alarmed, but I told him until I felt the plane change direction (turn or descend abruptly) I wasn't going to fret. Other than the nasty nuts served, the rest of the flight was awesome.

I sincerely hope no one was seriously injured in the evacuation!




[Edited 2012-04-16 09:57:53]


[Edited 2012-04-16 09:59:04]

[Edited 2012-04-16 09:59:40]
Great Lakes, great life.
 
Gingersnap
Posts: 911
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VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:55 pm

4 people hurt I just saw flash up.
Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W B788 C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1819
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VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 54):
And some of the reports "The crew were yelling get off get off" and things like " They were not waiting for people to clear the bottom of the slide" and "they were pushing people onto the slide"
........The most critical thing in ANY emergency is time. If you don't yell at people and create a sense of urgency, they would probably stroll about the aircraft and get their belongings from the overhead lockers and take their sweet time.

Well done to the flight AND cabin crew for getting the plane down and everyone off as QUICKLY as possible.

I refer back to the BA B777 crash at LHR. 1 passenger complained to the media about how rude the crew were to him during the evacuation.
 
bohica
Posts: 2448
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VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 43):
"We weren't told anything other than we had to go back to Gatwick and make an emergency landing.

Would the passenger rather be told the airplane is on fire? I don't think so.

Quoting gingersnap (Reply 58):
4 people hurt I just saw flash up.

It could have been a lot worse. I believe the crew did an excellent job getting the plane evacuated.
 
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tjcab
Posts: 354
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VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 59):
I refer back to the BA B777 crash at LHR. 1 passenger complained to the media about how rude the crew were to him during the evacuation.

What a fool, what, he wanted a cup of tea and a smile kindly asking him to disembark. Pathetic. Which part of emergency evacuation did he not comprehend?
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:33 am

VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 56):

As crew myself it's really annoying to hear such passenger comments. Granted, we all know the role of cabin crew isn't always fully understood or appreciated by "Joe Passenger" but surely when all crew are shouting commands, the same commands in unison then they would realise that it was something more co-ordinated and intentional. With a fire or potential fire anywhere on the aircraft time is not your best friend.

Pushing passengers (lower back) onto the slides is procedure, particularly when they hesitate. Injuries will always occur in evacuations which is why the decision to evacuate isn't taken lightly in the first place and is actually quite a calculated decision. In an ideal world the crew will have had time to brief the ABP's or the exit row passengers having enough about them to assist and direct passengers at the bottom of the slide. I can picture it now all the passengers hanging around at the bottom of the slides rather than moving away from the aircraft. Hence further injuries.

I hope that perhaps someone will set the story straight to the media so that the crew don't get made to look like a set of idiots. I know if I was one of the crew members today I would be really pissed off considering i'd just helped in a pretty successful evacuation!

As a side. Does anyone think that the typical VS crew member stereotype may have been a factor here? I'm not in anyway suggesting that their training is sub-par (I know it isn't) but alot of airlines seem to have a crew stereotype and the Virgin one tends to be the "dizzy beautiful blonde" girl who is just there to look sexy.

And more annoying that the BBC chose to use that viewpoint, rather than the more important of the crew using their training to SAVE LIVES. You always get a few injuries on the slides and since this incident seemed to happen just after takeoff there problem wasn't a lot of time to prepare.

Glad to hear that everyone's OK,
 
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Btblue
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VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:08 pm

At the end of the day, a little rudeness in such a scenario is a small price to pay compared to ending up as plant food as a result of a fire.

Good they landed safely and there will always be some pax that grumble and complain. They walked away - some accidents don't always offer that luxury.
 
BoeingGuy
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VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 57):
It turned out to be a small oven fire or overheating element in the midships galley - an FA later told us they were VERY close to deciding to return to ATL.

The way the Boeing procedure reads is that if you can't VISUALLY identify the source of the smoke/fire/fumes and visually confirm that it's out (not just just that you kind of think there's less smoke or the odor is less strong now, maybe sort of) then you immediately land at the nearest suitable airport ASAP (not just where it's convenient).

In this case they apparently could visually confirm it was the galley oven and could put their hand on it like a boy scout's campfire, so they were justified in continuing at the Captain's discretion.

If the burning smell had persisted and they couldn't identify it or confirm that it was out, then they should have landed at the nearest airport - period - that could safely land an A330. If that meant an Air Force base or off-line Podunk airport, they should have been there darn fast. F9 landed at YKM a few months ago for an unidentified smoke event.

If it's the one day that it's going to be another SW 111 then statistics show they have like 23 minutes on average before the airplane becomes uncontrollable or comes apart in flames.
 
Pihero
Posts: 4318
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VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 56):
As crew myself it's really annoying to hear such passenger comments.

It's a thankless situation : people, once safe on the ground willresent the fact that they have been scared and put - litterally - their lives into the hands of a group of - generally young - flight attendants.
It is quite remarkable that the passengers' comments on the diverted AF CDG-BOG of a few weeks ago and this one are almost verbatim the same .
See :"Quote:
Passengers on an Air France flight travelling from Paris to Bogota have told how they thought they were going to die when the plane they were on plummeted towards the Atlantic ocean after a burning smell filled the cabin.
Quote:
Swedish newspaper Expressen quotes Eden Victoria Erlandsson, a passenger on the plane, as saying "panic took over, the cabin crew were sweating and shouting, and people were crying and praying. It was total panic."

with some comments above.

Quoting gingersnap (Reply 58):
4 people hurt I just saw flash up.

out of 300 passengers, that's very low as people will suffer :
-friction burns from the slide
-sprain or broken heel / leg / knee and articulations at the bottom of the slide
-upper body fractures from collisions between passengers sliding fast and hitting those in front...
Contrail designer
 
AAMDanny
Posts: 328
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VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:29 pm

From what I have heard the crew did an amazing and efficient job in getting all the crew off the aircraft.

What do passengers expect for an emergency evacuation? Do they expect it to be a lovely, calm and collective disembarkation?
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:33 am

VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:55 pm

Quoting AAMDanny (Reply 66):
From what I have heard the crew did an amazing and efficient job in getting all the crew off the aircraft.

What do passengers expect for an emergency evacuation? Do they expect it to be a lovely, calm and collective disembarkation?

You can never please some people!
 
Heathrow757
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:30 pm

VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:55 pm

Everyone has probably got the gist of what happened but my Bro's friend was on board and she said that their was a rapid descent followed by the landing then the words 'evacuate, evacuate, evacuate', there weren't any flames but a lot of smoke and people were going crazy with lots of screaming etc etc.... which is, I guess, understandable. Strange seeing as G-VSXY is so new?   
 
mikect
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 4:27 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:58 pm

Quoting Heathrow757 (Reply 68):
Strange seeing as G-VSXY is so new?

Well if it was truly a cargo fire, the age of the plane has nothing to do with that.
 
GT4EZY
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:35 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:05 pm

Quoting MikeCT (Reply 69):
Quoting Heathrow757 (Reply 68):Strange seeing as G-VSXY is so new?
Well if it was truly a cargo fire, the age of the plane has nothing to do with that.

And even if it was specific to the aircraft, that is by no means unusual on a new aircraft.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
RussianJet
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RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:20 pm

Love the way that a crew member 'screaming' "get off, get off!" like, apparently, a banshee, means they were panicking. Would the idiots reporting that rather the crew member concerned had asked passengers to take a seat and wait half an hour with a beer or two before disembarking? Meh.....
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
theginge
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:53 am

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:25 pm

Quoting GCPET (Reply 17):
I know that a few BA 767's that are in Longhaul Configuration (previously Shorthaul) don't have Fuel dumping equipment on them which could be very risky if they have an engine failure if they're fully laden for Nassau etc.

If you have an engine failure on a twin isn't it advisable to get on the ground as soon as possible?! Which means you wouldn't have time to dump fuel even if you could...
 
virgincrew
Posts: 420
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RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:42 pm

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 56):
Does anyone think that the typical VS crew member stereotype may have been a factor here? I'm not in anyway suggesting that their training is sub-par (I know it isn't) but alot of airlines seem to have a crew stereotype and the Virgin one tends to be the "dizzy beautiful blonde" girl who is just there to look sexy.

regardless of that - VS Cabin Crew are highly trained (as are all cabin crew)

what they look like shouldn't factor into it !
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
virgincrew
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:40 am

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:52 pm

Quoting Passenger 'Tom Aldridge' on The BBC Report

"She was screaming like a banshee - 'Get off, get off' - she was literally pushing people down the chute"

Exactly what cabin crew are trained to do - in an emergency evacuation there isn't the luxury of loud speakers/ tanoys or PA's, crew have to shout to be heard, if passengers hesitate at the exit - they will be pushed down the slide.
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
PI4EVER
Posts: 817
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 10:29 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:35 pm

Congratulations to the Captain and all crew for a safe conclusion to a potentially serious situation. Regrettably a few passengers and/or crew are banged up a bit, but no one suffered loss of limb or life, and no serious damage to the aircraft. It is always interesting to read of passenger response, particularly when the media shoves a microphone in their face for a "first person" perspective. Chin up VS crew, and smile at my experience many years ago.......
I was lead F/A on a 737 that was struck by lightning on takeoff. The Captain quickly advised he was returning to the airport due to potential damage to the stabilizer and tailplane, and loss of hydraulic power, and that he would notify me if an evacuation was necessary. We did land uneventfully and taxiied under our own power to the gate. The A/C was damaged and the flight was canceled.
Two female passengers in F complained to me at the door they were going to "write this up" and that they were very disappointed in what happened. Sure enough, a lettter was written actually complaining about me for "failing to provide any comfort during the harrowing flight," and that the "cocktail we ordered with dinner would have calmed us down." They wrote "he remained seated during the flight and talked on the telephone a lot completely ignoring us."
Please keep in mind our circuit to return to the runway lasted all of 23 minutes and that we were flying in a thunderstorm with associated turbulence in an unstable airplane.
They were pissed however at not getting their vodka tonic. They probably drank their sorrow at the hotel bar when we overnighted them.
It still brings a smile to my face after all these years. They are likely the parents of all the Bozo's we fly with nowadays!
watch what you want. you may get it.
 
GT4EZY
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:35 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 73):

As crew myself I acknowledged that VS training is up there with the rest and my comment about the VS crew stereotype is pretty much fact..... Both within crew circles and the wider public. Think back to Pam Ann and the VS ad and you will see what I mean. Now of course I agree that looks shouldn't matter but looks and stereotype do sometimes influence people's perceptions. My question was whether the VS stereotype/perception maybe a factor?
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
bristolflyer
Posts: 2103
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 1:35 am

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:48 pm

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 74):
Quoting Passenger 'Tom Aldridge' on The BBC Report

"She was screaming like a banshee - 'Get off, get off' - she was literally pushing people down the chute"

Exactly what cabin crew are trained to do - in an emergency evacuation there isn't the luxury of loud speakers/ tanoys or PA's, crew have to shout to be heard, if passengers hesitate at the exit - they will be pushed down the slide.

Some people are so ignorant about the potential of an emergency that they would probably expect FAs to politely request that people leave.

'Please everyone, listen in; we have a slight predicament that requires you to leave the aircraft - hopefully it's not raining outside for you. If you don't want to leave, that's your choice - just let us know what drink you'd like and we'll stop by your seat with a refreshing beverage then transport you to the gate in a Mercedes.'

I'll take the screaming banshee any day.
Fortune favours the brave
 
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kann123air
Posts: 1645
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RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:50 pm

Going for great
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
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RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:05 pm

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 76):
As crew myself I acknowledged that VS training is up there with the rest and my comment about the VS crew stereotype is pretty much fact..... Both within crew circles and the wider public. Think back to Pam Ann and the VS ad and you will see what I mean. Now of course I agree that looks shouldn't matter but looks and stereotype do sometimes influence people's perceptions. My question was whether the VS stereotype/perception maybe a factor?

I think the stereotype probably hasn't helped with the way this has been reported, but we don't know what the crew were actually like (I can think of a guys at Virgin that can scream like a banshee!), but they carried out a textbook evacuation. I do SRB should have some words with the BBC about the way have portrayed his employees when they have done something not even a lot of cabin crew would have do for real in their careers.

Although this incident doesn't disprove the Pam Ann stereotype. She only ever claimed they can't find their way around a 747, we at least know they know their way around an A330! (too soon for jokes??)
 
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Phen
Posts: 293
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RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:46 pm

The sensationalist nonsense being churned out on Sky News (UK) is nauseating. They are emphasising that the aicraft made a "FULL" emergency landing - as opposed to what? A half emergency landing?   Then they say "why has such a new aircraft had a fire in the cabin?" and "virgin technicians and air accident investigators will be looking to see how a plane can have such a technical fault in mid air" - they don't know it was a fault with the aircraft at all and from the sounds of it, this could have happened in any cargo hold of any aircraft! I often wonder, if they hype this kind of thing up then the stuff I hear on the news about subjects I am not familiar with couldn't be very accurate either   
 
YVRLTN
Posts: 2344
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:08 am

A little info on diverts here from this great blog

http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace...atwick-roundup-16-04-12-84073.aspx
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
usafdo
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:25 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:49 am

I commend the cabin crew for doing their job...a fantastic job in getting everybody out fast.

The PAX & reportors that make comments like "...they were screaming at the PAX" or "yelling at the PAX to get out" ... may be in fact true..... and the crew did exactly what they were supposed to do.

Remember that Chian Airlines 737-800 that literally EXPLODED .... it literally EXPLODED like a bomb went off ...seconds before the last pax got off?
August 20, 2007 at Naha Airport.....

Those PAX responded like they were supposed to...."run for your life"!

Maybe if they showed that at safety briefings to the PAX...they would do what they were told to do without questions....or stop complaining that the crew was "yelling" or "screaming at them".
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:08 am

Quoting usafdo (Reply 82):
Remember that Chian Airlines 737-800 that literally EXPLODED .... it literally EXPLODED like a bomb went off ...seconds before the last pax got off?
August 20, 2007 at Naha Airport.....

Well stated. Or the flight crew of AF358 that had everyone off safely in 90 seconds while the plane was burning. Perhaps they should have said "please" a few more times.
 
YVRLTN
Posts: 2344
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:34 am

Seems they couldnt tow off the runway immediately as "tires deflated automatically due to heavy breaking" - is that true, or is something lost in transaltion and they just burst?

http://www.jacdec.de/news/news.htm
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
Flyingfox27
Posts: 190
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RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:43 am

Glad they landed safely, when someone yells at me i often just stand there and think "Hey this person shouting at me i'll freeze and stop what i'm doing incase iam making a situation further wrong and listen to the shouting" I know its an instruction but sometimes a person shouting makes someone nervous so that they just freeze rather than respond. Maybe a different type of tone, an urgency type not a scream type would be better? But no one knows what its like to be in an emergency so the first one, be it the scream tone or urgency tone comes out first i guess.

I think now the event is over the attendant probably thinks hey i did do that rather harshly but next time i will do it with urgency rather than a full on scream, but at the time it could have been worse which is what they are trained for.

Gatwick has had some bad luck this past week, a hot air balloon, now the emergency landing, lets hope things dont come in threes.
 
twa727
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:15 am

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:48 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 84):
Seems they couldnt tow off the runway immediately as "tires deflated automatically due to heavy breaking" - is that true, or is something lost in transaltion and they just burst?

My understanding is that tires on planes like the A330 have thermal plugs and overpressure valves that will give to release tire pressure before the wheel temperature or tire pressure would cause the tire to burst. A controlled deflation is much safer than a high pressure tire burst.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:14 am

Quoting twa727 (Reply 86):
My understanding is that tires on planes like the A330 have thermal plugs and overpressure valves that will give to release tire pressure before the wheel temperature or tire pressure would cause the tire to burst. A controlled deflation is much safer than a high pressure tire burst.

Yes, Boeing airplanes have the same. However, why did the fuse plugs release? That normally only happens during unusually heavy braking such as a high speed RTO.

Did he want to stop the airplane a few seconds earlier to start the evacuation? Or, perhaps did they have some kind of system failure that prevented the anti-skid system from working?
 
RIXrat
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RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:38 am

Anyone remember Saudia flight 163 in August 1980 that had a cargo fire and landed in Riyadh with 287 pax and 14 crew. All were killed, probably because the captain decided to taxi the L-1011 to a ramp area, instead of stopping instantly on the runway where the fire equipment was waiting.

I have the utmost admiration for the VS captain and crew to stop immediately, deploy the slides and get the hell out of there. The Saudia aircraft was burned to a crisp. That's why I would ever mind a FA to yell at me to get out now!
 
usafdo
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:25 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:06 am

Yes RIXrat I agree with you 100%!

The VS cabin crew did exactly what they were trained to do.

However when I hear a post, such as that from Flyingfox27 - it gives me the impression this person has "ZERO" understanding of the situation!

It can be life or death - and there is not time to have debates about "your screaming at me", or "you are yelling at me".....


Look at the pictures of the Continental DC-10......."March 1, 1978: Continental Airlines Flight #603"

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Conti...cDonnell-Douglas-DC-10-10/0086018/
 
scouseflyer
Posts: 2193
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:45 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 87):
Yes, Boeing airplanes have the same. However, why did the fuse plugs release? That normally only happens during unusually heavy braking such as a high speed RTO.

I'm guessing that, with the plane being heavy and this being an emergency then this could be classed as "unusually heavy breaking".
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:48 am

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 88):
Anyone remember Saudia flight 163 in August 1980 that had a cargo fire and landed in Riyadh with 287 pax and 14 crew. All were killed, probably because the captain decided to taxi the L-1011 to a ramp area, instead of stopping instantly on the runway where the fire equipment was waiting. I have the utmost admiration for the VS captain and crew to stop immediately, deploy the slides and get the hell out of there. The Saudia aircraft was burned to a crisp. That's why I would ever mind a FA to yell at me to get out now!

I was thinking of this desperately sad case, when reading the complaints of ignorant passengers.
 
Luftymatt
Posts: 545
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:27 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:25 am

Quoting GCPET (Reply 17):
I'm guessing the A330 has the option to dump fuel?

Yes they do. But in the event of even the slightest suspicion of a fire on-board, the priority is to get the aircraft on the ground, no messing! Airlines would rather damage the aircraft than risk anyone burning to death. An on-board fire is an aircraft operator and an aircrews greatest fear.
chase the sun
 
Fabo
Posts: 1174
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:30 am

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:34 am

Quoting theginge (Reply 72):
If you have an engine failure on a twin isn't it advisable to get on the ground as soon as possible?! Which means you wouldn't have time to dump fuel even if you could...

If it is just a flameout, with no other problem present, then you can stay in the air for quite a while.
The light at the end of tunnel turned out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
 
virgincrew
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:40 am

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:38 am

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 76):
As crew myself I acknowledged that VS training is up there with the rest and my comment about the VS crew stereotype is pretty much fact..... Both within crew circles and the wider public. Think back to Pam Ann and the VS ad and you will see what I mean. Now of course I agree that looks shouldn't matter but looks and stereotype do sometimes influence people's perceptions. My question was whether the VS stereotype/perception maybe a factor?

I totally agree that VS Cabin Crew have a certain stereotype both amongst other crew, the press & passengers alike.

The crew on-board VS027 did a text book evacuation, the likelihood is that hardly any pax's watched the safety demo.

I personally don't think that the stereotype of VS crew was a factor. I have friends at BA that said the same thing happened after the BA LHR Crash, some passengers complained to BA that the cabin crew were rude to them on evacuation !!!

If passengers could see how quick a fire can spread on-board an aircraft, as mentioned above, a fire on-board an aircraft is a flight crew's worst case scenario. The only option is get the aircraft down and get the pax's off.

Some cabin crew can go a whole career with never having to put their training into practice.

I say well done !!
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
CamiloA380
Posts: 355
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:51 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:34 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 87):
However, why did the fuse plugs release? That normally only happens during unusually heavy braking such as a high speed RTO.

It was an overweight landing. Where they would use max reverse thrust, and possibly max brakes depending on the runway length available they had after nose touchdown and also the flaps setting (as they'd use flaps 3 for landing if the weight exceeded the maximum go-around weight, increasing the approaching speed), therfore the temperature exceeded 800C and the tire deflated.
Flying4Ever!
 
grimey
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:48 am

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:51 pm

Quoting usafdo (Reply 82):
Remember that Chian Airlines 737-800 that literally EXPLODED .... it literally EXPLODED like a bomb went off ...seconds before the last pax got off?
August 20, 2007 at Naha Airport.....
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 83):
Or the flight crew of AF358 that had everyone off safely in 90 seconds while the plane was burning.

They should show them video clips / pictures on the safety videos from now on and it'll be fresh in peoples minds.
 
sq_ek_freak
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 4:48 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting chuchoteur (Reply 55):
"She was screaming like a banshee - 'Get off, get off' - she was literally pushing people down the chute," he said."

What was she supposed to do, sing a song and dance and gently usher people off the plane? Sounds like she did her job perfectly.

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 56):
As crew myself it's really annoying to hear such passenger comments. Granted, we all know the role of cabin crew isn't always fully understood or appreciated by "Joe Passenger" but surely when all crew are shouting commands, the same commands in unison then they would realise that it was something more co-ordinated and intentional. With a fire or potential fire anywhere on the aircraft time is not your best friend.

Pushing passengers (lower back) onto the slides is procedure, particularly when they hesitate. Injuries will always occur in evacuations which is why the decision to evacuate isn't taken lightly in the first place and is actually quite a calculated decision. In an ideal world the crew will have had time to brief the ABP's or the exit row passengers having enough about them to assist and direct passengers at the bottom of the slide. I can picture it now all the passengers hanging around at the bottom of the slides rather than moving away from the aircraft. Hence further injuries.

I hope that perhaps someone will set the story straight to the media so that the crew don't get made to look like a set of idiots. I know if I was one of the crew members today I would be really pissed off considering i'd just helped in a pretty successful evacuation!

      I agree, welcome to my RR list  
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 59):
I refer back to the BA B777 crash at LHR. 1 passenger complained to the media about how rude the crew were to him during the evacuation.

I remember that, that made me laugh. Truth of the matter is BA crew are some of the best out there.

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 88):
I have the utmost admiration for the VS captain and crew to stop immediately, deploy the slides and get the hell out of there. The Saudia aircraft was burned to a crisp. That's why I would ever mind a FA to yell at me to get out now!

I read about this and thought of that as a main reason why I thought the decision to evacuate ASAP was the right one. The sad thing about the Saudia case was that I remember reading most people had passed out due to smoke inhalation and that the cabin crew were still strapped in their jump seats when they were found. Totally avoidable tragedy.
Keep Discovering
 
cc2314
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:15 pm

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:56 pm

Quoting Flyingfox27 (Reply 85):

I would rather they scream as loudly as they possibly can without it becoming distorted.There is no time for hesitation,hmm did i sound too rude ??
Deleted
 
musang
Posts: 797
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 4:11 am

RE: VS Evacuation @ LGW April 16

Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:38 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 37):
That must have been a heavy landing with all its fuel still onboard.

Heavy in the sense that it was over its max landing weight perhaps, but there's no relationship between the weight of the aircraft and how hard it hits the ground. We classify a heavy landing (which needs engineering checks) as one which hits at more than about 2.0 vertigal G. This was likely to be correctly termed an Overweight Landing.

Regards - musang

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