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Jamake1
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AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:52 pm

Adjusted for special items, Q1 loss was $248 mil vs. $405 mil in Q1 2011.

Earning release below:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amr-co...unces-first-quarter-132000593.html
Come fly the sun.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:49 pm

AMRs financials make my head hurt. I'm happy to see the revenue growth (which I certainly contributed in 1Q2012). I'm surprised the load factor was only 79%. I flew 12 legs on AA in 1Q2012 and 100% of my flights were 100% full.    Ok, mostly Monday morning and Friday afternoon flights.  


How much cash did AA burn in the 1st quarter? Between borrowing, returned leases, etc. I'm just not certain. Does anyone know AA's cash burn rate?

While the non-cash losses are bad, I hate to say it, but that will be born by the investors (pensions? Hedge funds?) that invested in AA. I wouldn't want to be holding the lease on a MD-80...

Lightsaber
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jfk777
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:51 pm

AA took a $ 1.0 Billion charge for rejected leases and other debts, a writeoff not cash money. How much money did AA loose flying to India ?
 
panamair
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:55 pm

Excluding all the Ch.11-related expenses, the results are actually not bad.

Operating loss of $101m (operating margin of -1.7%) in the weakest quarter of the year, is not too bad considering that WN (the other carrier that reported today), a healthier carrier not in Ch.11, reported a paltry $22m operating profit (+0.6% margin), or even worse, a $10m operating profit excluding specials (0.3% operating margin).
 
SJUSXM
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:52 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
How much cash did AA burn in the 1st quarter? Between borrowing, returned leases, etc. I'm just not certain. Does anyone know AA's cash burn rate?

AA's cash position incresed to over $5 billion in the 1Q.
AT7, ER3, ER4, ER5, CR7, E70, E75, F100, M82, M83, 722, 732, 738, 752, 762, 763, AB6, 320, 321, 772, 77W
 
F9Animal
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:07 pm

The only industry I know of where a loss like this is considered, "not bad".
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
dirtyfrankd
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 5):
The only industry I know of where a loss like this is considered, "not bad".

Well, isn't this more of an accounting loss than a real loss? Continued adjustments to value of assets, etc.? I need to sit down and read through the financial statements tonight.
 
stlgph
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:13 pm

from Bloomberg - AMR unions are now said to support a US Airways takeover.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ckfred
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
AMRs financials make my head hurt. I'm happy to see the revenue growth (which I certainly contributed in 1Q2012). I'm surprised the load factor was only 79%. I flew 12 legs on AA in 1Q2012 and 100% of my flights were 100% full.

I was flying ORD-DFW on March 25, and the gate agent was asking for volunteers. On DFW-ORD on March 31, my flight needed 4 volunteers (my family volunteered 3 seats), and the next flight needed 2 volunteers.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 7):
from Bloomberg - AMR unions are now said to support a US Airways takeover.

It would be interesting to know how the rank and file feel about that. I know a few AA pilots, and considering the mess that was created with the TWA purchase, they have no interest in trying to create a unified seniority list with US. On top of that, the pilots I know (all ORD crew base), don't want US pilots transferring into ORD. All of them have been complaining about the problems of getting good lines, because they are towards the bottom of their aircraft types, as well as STL pilots being able to bid on ORD trips. They don't need US pilots shoving them further down.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:03 pm

"Excluding all the Ch.11-related expenses, the results are actually not bad."

Except they haven't made a dime, a cent, anything in a decade.

They are bad.
 
ckfred
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 9):
Except they haven't made a dime, a cent, anything in a decade.

They are bad.

I thought AMR had profitable quarters in the years 2004 through 2007, and that 2006 and 2007 were profitable for the full years. It was the run-up in oil prices in 2008 that got AMR in trouble, because oil prices never went back to the level before the run-up.
 
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Acey559
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:29 pm

I was told by an AA pilot that what they're looking to US for right now (apparently the APA and US have been talking) is DL's pay +3%. Depending on who you talk to, you'll receive varying degrees of welcomness or disdain for the idea. Many see it as a way to escape poor AMR management (somewhat) and others are it as more of the same. Will be interesting to see the ultimate result.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
ckfred
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:35 pm

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 11):
I was told by an AA pilot that what they're looking to US for right now (apparently the APA and US have been talking) is DL's pay +3%. Depending on who you talk to, you'll receive varying degrees of welcomness or disdain for the idea. Many see it as a way to escape poor AMR management (somewhat) and others are it as more of the same. Will be interesting to see the ultimate result.

A good friend of mine is an AA captain. He thinks highly of Bob Crandall, but he believes that the executives who worked their way up the ranks aren't of the same caliber as Crandall. That includes Carty, Arpey, and Horton. Since Doug Parker started out at AA, my friend doesn't relish the thought of another Crandall student trying to run AA.

He would rather have someone who has never worked at AA takeover and try to fix things.
 
milemaster
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:04 am

We are only 1 year away from tray table advertisements, degraded domestic first class services, and "special" credit card offers on each and every flight. There is nothing pleasant on the horizon for the AA frequent flyer if this merger happens with Parker and team running the show.

I hope I'm wrong.

[Edited 2012-04-19 17:07:42]
 
phlwok
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:08 am

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 6):
Well, isn't this more of an accounting loss than a real loss? Continued adjustments to value of assets, etc.? I need to sit down and read through the financial statements tonight.

It's important to remember when looking at the financials of companies in Chapter 11 bankruptcy that a good number of accounting maneuvers need to be made to depreciate assets to market value (for instance, some MD-80s may have a sale value less than that currently on the books), to account for pieces of the business that may be shut down or sold, rejected leases, etc. This can create wild swings - a paper loss of a billion one quarter, a gain of a billion upon exiting bankruptcy, etc.

These are not the numbers to focus on. They are large, so they make headlines. The numbers to focus on are the ones exclusive of these special items.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:31 am

"I thought AMR had profitable quarters in the years 2004 through 2007, and that 2006 and 2007 were profitable for the full years. "

2010-loss
2009-loss
2008-loss
2007-profit
2006-profit
2005-loss
2004-loss
2003-loss
2002-loss
2001-loss
2000-profit

From the aa website
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:38 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 5):
The only industry I know of where a loss like this is considered, "not bad".

So true. Aviation is a challenging business.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 7):
from Bloomberg - AMR unions are now said to support a US Airways takeover.

Interesting development.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
2010-loss
2009-loss
2008-loss
2007-profit
2006-profit
2005-loss
2004-loss
2003-loss
2002-loss
2001-loss
2000-profit

Sad reading indeed.
 
c680
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:41 am

Old Joke:

How do you make a Millionaire?

Take a Billionaire and buy an airline.
My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
 
phxa340
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:09 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 12):
He would rather have someone who has never worked at AA takeover and try to fix things.

And Parker is going to be the white knight to fix everything ? He can't even merge the East and the West Union Groups at US ... Granted he has done some remarkable things at US but your AA buddy is dreaming that the situation will be better if US and AA merge. Its too bad AA pilots and management have so much bad blood that they would rather merge with an airline that really doesn't give it much if any competitive advantage.
 
odafz
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:33 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 3):
Operating loss of $101m (operating margin of -1.7%) in the weakest quarter of the year, is not too bad considering that WN (the other carrier that reported today), a healthier carrier not in Ch.11, reported a paltry $22m operating profit (+0.6% margin), or even worse, a $10m operating profit excluding specials (0.3% operating margin).

No matter how you spin the numbers , a loss a still a loss and that is VERY BAD and a profit is still a profit and THAT IS VERY GOOD.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:45 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 7):

from Bloomberg - AMR unions are now said to support a US Airways takeover

So does that mean that UA and DL will also ssay they are interested in being involved in this as well so as to see the share prices at US rocket and make life painful for AA?
 
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fxramper
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:03 am

I'm that jerk on Anet that saw the light back in 2007, especially having an uncle that is #23 on the seniority list at AA, but I was on the defense for AMR to file chp 11 to fix the problems they put off to Dec. 2011. They could have been a few steps a head of the game to come out of bk as stronger company and now they are speculation of rumors to get absorbed by the worse airline in N. America: US. It gives me heartburn when I play golf with my uncle and want to ask him how work is so I gave up on that. I'm glad I moved to EWR for work and fly UA now. Where is the airplane on fire icon?   
 
JBLUA320
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:27 am

The flight attendant on my commuting flight from CLT-BOS the other day joked, "You didn't hear? American is buying US Airways AND JetBlue. The new airline is called American Blue Us!"
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:22 am

Quoting jblua320 (Reply 22):
The flight attendant on my commuting flight from CLT-BOS the other day joked, "You didn't hear? American is buying US Airways AND JetBlue. The new airline is called American Blue Us!"

        
 
stlgph
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:29 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 20):
So does that mean that UA and DL will also ssay they are interested in being involved in this as well so as to see the share prices at US rocket and make life painful for AA?

stocks at US Airways have gone up since they started going public with their interest in taking over AMR.

btw, Bloomberg is now reporting that 3 AMR unions have reached a collective bargaining pact with US Airways.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
blueman87
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:01 pm

B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
 
stlgph
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:09 pm

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 25):

9:41 this morning eastern - Parker says merger isn't confirmed but is "hopeful" it can.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
stlgph
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:19 pm

Headlines crossing right now -

American pilots are talking -

American pilots - merger with US Airways is "superior option"
American pilots - long term business plan not viable
American pilots - union talking to US Airway since early March
American pilots - merged carrier would retain aircraft orders
American pilots - merged carrier would stay in OneWorld

Other unions -
US Airways merger would save 6,200 jobs
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
UAL777UK
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:24 pm

I will wait for an official announcent but it looks like the games are about to begin.
 
B747forever
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:26 pm

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 25):
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/20...ys-to-take-over-american-airlines/
Article here says there merging

So far they are the only one reporting that they are merging. I doubt it is already a done deal, but we are not far away from it.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
stlgph
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:52 pm

Bloomberg reporting the merger would keep the American name and the DFW headquarters.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Acey559
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:00 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 12):

That's the overall sentiment I'm hearing as well. Many see US as the lesser of two evils, but in a perfect world all of AA management would be replaced with fresh faces new to the industry.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
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rangercarp
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RE: AMR Reports $1.7 Bil Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:52 pm

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 25):
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/20...ys-to-take-over-american-airlines/
Article here says there merging

The article states:

"According to US Airways CEO Doug Parker, three unions that represent 55,000 American employees have agreed to terms that would govern collective bargaining agreements.

Parker contradicted a CBS News report from early Friday morning and said that no agreement on a merger had been reached."

Maybe the article has been edited since you posted it, but it makes it clear this is NOT a done deal.
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