732 Crash In Pakistan

cabso1 · Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:33 pm

A 732 has crashed near ISB airport. There was 127 people on board and it crashed in a populated area.

The aircraft belonged to E4 - Bhoja Air, operating under flight 213. Details forthcoming.

http://dawn.com/2012/04/20/reports-o...lane-crash-near-chaklala-dawnnews/
http://t.co/naTPgA4i
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17788698

[Edited 2012-04-20 07:36:58]

imiakhtar · Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:37 pm

I've just spoken to my uncle in Army HQ Rawalpindi and they're in the process of getting some choppers to the area. Apparently it's quite serious.

ChicagoFlyer · Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:39 pm

Early news: 118 fatalities from 127 onboard
http://dawn.com/2012/04/20/reports-o...lane-crash-near-chaklala-dawnnews/

NDiesel · Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:42 pm

Only one picture of Bhoja Air in the database it seems.

Let's hope for the best for passengers and crew, as well as people on the ground.

Tobias2702 · Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:49 pm

Sad to hear.

All of Bhoja Air 737-200s (different sources give different numbers) once belonged to British Airways. The a/c posted above (AP-BEP) cannot be the frame that crashed, as it was sold to Merpati and later scrapped.

[Edited 2012-04-20 07:51:29]

cabso1 · Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:50 pm

Reports are that this was the inaugural flight and that there are no survivors. Reports are sketchy at this point.

Tobias2702 · Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting cabso1 (Reply 5):
Reports are that this was the inaugural flight

Oh, than the a/c involved seems to be LN 635, which has been delivered to Bhoja Air only quite recently. Originally delivered to BA in 1980 with reg G-BGDD.

[Edited 2012-04-20 07:55:19]

liquidair · Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:19 pm

First images show a gruesome scene. Wreckage is scattered over a considerable area according to sky news. They quote experts, blaming the weather.

BBC now reporting AC came down during a thunderstorm, as it came in to land.

[Edited 2012-04-20 08:35:59]

mjabbasi · Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:33 pm

My friend who works at KHI airport saw it take off and says it was AP-BKD. Lightening strike is being blamed as the cause of the crash.

Gonzalo · Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:59 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 7):
First images show a gruesome scene.

Not sure about the images I'm receiving in my TV, they show a wreckage in daylight time and seconds later other images in night time... can not be even sure if I'm watching the same crash at different times or totally different crashes.

Also I see a blue T-tail section in the images, did this airline has any T-tailed airplane ??

G.

khi747 · Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting mjabbasi (Reply 8):
My friend who works at KHI airport saw it take off and says it was AP-BKD. Lightening strike is being blamed as the cause of the crash.

Can lightening itself solely bring down an aircraft?

Aircraft are often struck by lightening,infact i rememeber there was one event at LHR involving an EK plane not too long which and it was even captured on video. I believe aircraft are designed to withstand lighening strikes.

Lets wait and see what details appear as in most cases its a sequence of events that cause a crash - not one.

SASDC8 · Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:09 pm

Really sad news indeed! My thoughts are with the families of the victims.

Early reports suggest it went down in all but optimal weather.

T8KE0FF · Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:16 pm

What sad news. How come there were 9 crew onboard?! That's quite a lot for a domestic hop on a 732, is it not?

Revelation · Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:22 pm

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 4):
The a/c posted above (AP-BEP) cannot be the frame that crashed, as it was sold to Merpati and later scrapped.

The poster didn't say that was the frame that crashed, he said it was the only Bhoja Air photo in the a.net database.

cbphoto · Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:33 pm

Quoting T8KE0FF (Reply 12):
What sad news. How come there were 9 crew onboard?! That's quite a lot for a domestic hop on a 732, is it not?

Well, if it was the inaugural flight, as suggested above, then their could very well have been some crew training on the flight! The flight deck might have had some training personal in the jumpseats and their might have been extra flight attendants on board doing training as well!

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 10):
Can lightening itself solely bring down an aircraft?

In short, no lightning can't really bring down an aircraft! They are designed to take the lightning strike and discharge the electricity out the static wicks on the wings and tail. However, if their was a thunderstorm in the area, then their are other hazards that have to be looked at, including wind shear, micro bursts, or overall low cloud layers!

Either way, this is sad news indeed!

RIP to the victims

nema · Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:37 pm

This is very sad news..

Whats more the BBC news article states that Last July, an Airbus A321 crashed as it was about to land in Islamabad, killing all 152 people on board.

The same approach?

lightsaber · Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 10):
Can lightening itself solely bring down an aircraft?

Yes, and has done so before. However, if properly maintained, the lightning protection system would preserve the airframe.

Now, in the USA, the last plane crash attributed to lightning was in 1967. I have no idea of the source, but this CNN article also claims a domestic plane is hit about once a year:
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-17/t...ghtning-strikes-plane?_s=PM:TRAVEL

Now one of the more spectacular crashes was Pan Am 214:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_214

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 14):
In short, no lightning can't really bring down an aircraft! They are designed to take the lightning strike and discharge the electricity out the static wicks on the wings and tail.

Lightning shouldn't be able to bring down an aircraft with a fully functioning lightning protection system. If there were few broken grounding wires (there is always redundancy). Also, untreated corrosion can make the system's effectiveness too low to save the airframe or electronics.

About every 3 to 5 years, an airframe without proper maintenance oversight is lost to lightning. The last I'm aware of was a Colombia flight in 2010 (note: I'm going from memory). Should this happen?

Was it definitively the cause of the crash?

However, considering the current regulatory environment in Pakistan, should it be suspected?

Lightsaber

T8KE0FF · Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:58 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 14):
Well, if it was the inaugural flight, as suggested above, then their could very well have been some crew training on the flight! The flight deck might have had some training personal in the jumpseats and their might have been extra flight attendants on board doing training as well!

Aah, I hadn't of thought of that.

Thanks!

bueb0g · Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:03 pm

Quoting nema (Reply 15):
Whats more the BBC news article states that Last July, an Airbus A321 crashed as it was about to land in Islamabad, killing all 152 people on board. Same approach?

Totally different situations... The Air Blue A321 flew towards a mountain, off the path they were cleared to fly, and ignored calls from ATC and multiple cockpit alarms before crashing into terrain. It wasn't even on approach to a runway, wheras this 732 seemed to have been so I don't think we can blame the airport approach for this accident.

LXa332 · Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting mjabbasi (Reply 8):
My friend who works at KHI airport saw it take off and says it was AP-BKD.

AV Herald is reporting AP-BKC.

777jaah · Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting T8KE0FF (Reply 17):
The last I'm aware of was a Colombia flight in 2010 (note: I'm going from memory).

The Aires crash in ADZ had nothing to do with poor maintenance.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20100816-0

777jaah

rj777 · Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:23 pm

Ok, now we're getting conflicting reports as to the type of reports involved:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/20/world/...n-plane-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

The PRINT article is referencing a 737-200, but the VIDEO is saying an Airbus A321. Same news outlet.

What is going on here?

richierich · Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:54 pm

Quoting rj777 (Reply 21):
Ok, now we're getting conflicting reports as to the type of reports involved:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/20/world/...hp_t3

It's a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. It seems pretty clear that this was a B732, although it does have to be said that the CNN article manages to cite an irrelevant 1950s Comet crash in their article. What poor journalism.

Condolences to those that were lost. The first major tragedy of 2012 (with more than 50 fatalities), and hopefully the last.

WestJet747 · Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:18 pm

Bhoja Air has posted a passenger list on their home page encouraging family members to contact given emergency numbers, which I have never seen an airline do before.

It seems that there are 121 passengers on the list, as opposed to the previously reported 118. Very sad.

cbphoto · Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:42 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 16):
Lightning shouldn't be able to bring down an aircraft with a fully functioning lightning protection system. If there were few broken grounding wires (there is always redundancy). Also, untreated corrosion can make the system's effectiveness too low to save the airframe or electronics.

About every 3 to 5 years, an airframe without proper maintenance oversight is lost to lightning. The last I'm aware of was a Colombia flight in 2010 (note: I'm going from memory). Should this happen? Was it definitively the cause of the crash? However, considering the current regulatory environment in Pakistan, should it be suspected?

Well that is true, however, freak occurrences can and do happen! I can say with confidence that airplane around the world get struck everyday by lightning with no issues what so ever! I have been struck numerous times by lightning in my career with little or no affect and often don't even realize it until I have landed and performed the post flight inspection! That said, you are correct that this is in Pakistan, where the safety standards might not be up to par with most countries. I would think though, if the plane was just delivered, that a close maintenance inspection would have been completed prior to entering service! Then again, who am I kidding?

I did get a kick out of your smiley face explanation, funniest thing I have seen all day!

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 23):
Bhoja Air has posted a passenger list on their home page encouraging family members to contact given emergency numbers, which I have never seen an airline do before.

Seems a bit tasteless to me! You would think they would be able to look up passenger information and start informing the families that way, instead of posting the deceased on their web site.

garpd · Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:42 pm

Just seen some pictures, there's absolutely nothing left of the aircraft. Utterly destroyed, those poor people didn't have a chance.

hoons90 · Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:47 pm

Incredibly sad news. My thoughts are with the families, relatives and friends of those involved. Rest in peace to everyone that was on board.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 23):
Bhoja Air has posted a passenger list on their home page encouraging family members to contact given emergency numbers, which I have never seen an airline do before.

It seems that there are 121 passengers on the list, as opposed to the previously reported 118. Very sad.

Singapore Airlines did the same back when SQ006 crashed several years ago:

http://web.archive.org/web/200011090...www.singaporeair.com/report4b.html

GSPSPOT · Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:59 pm

Just heard about this. May all the souls involved find peace eternal.

rikkus67 · Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:23 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/21/wo...e-crashes-in-pakistan-capital.html

http://dawn.com/2012/04/21/in-pictures-bhoja-air-crash-near-islamabad/

RIP to all the victims, and condolences to family and friends.

flylku · Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:42 pm

I saw this reported through My Verizon. The photo above the headline was of a Qantas A380. The only hint in the headline that it was likely not an A380 was that there we 127 on board.

ukair · Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:43 pm

Why did the flight crew try to land in these conditions? If the conditions where below minimums they should have diverted to a safer airport. Sorry to be blunt but I think it needs to be said.

PHX787 · Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:40 am

Sad news. Sounds like a brutal crash. Hopefully something like this can be avoided next time. RIP

ghifty · Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:46 am

Interesting. The Bhoja Air website seems to be indicating that PIA has alloted one of their 747s to transport the victims families. RIP.

YVRLTN · Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:42 am

Quoting LXa332 (Reply 19):
Quoting mjabbasi (Reply 8):
My friend who works at KHI airport saw it take off and says it was AP-BKD.

AV Herald is reporting AP-BKC

Theres a comment thats says it is BKD.

Heres a photo in better days, ex BA & Comair - clearly still has the ex BA blue belly.
http://fly-news.es/aviones/seguridad...37-de-bhoja-air/attachment/ap-bkd/

RIXrat · Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:00 am

I am surprised to see that so far there are only 33 postings regarding this major air crash. Hardly any speculation, except the weather.
RIP to pax and crew.

PHX787 · Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:36 am

I don't want to sound off-topic, but is there any Flightaware on this route?

Aviational · Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:35 am

Very Sad News....RIP to the victims...
.
Eye witnesses around the area are saying that lightning struck the aircraft and it exploded right away !

zeke · Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:45 am

Quoting nema (Reply 15):
The same approach?

From what I understand Air Blue was conducting a circling approach to runway 12, they initially made an instrument approach to runways 30, got visual, and flew a visual left circuit for runway 12. The exceeded the circuit area considerably, and hit terrain about 7 nm (around 13 km) north of the airport. They have since raised the minimum circling height by 250 ft on that approach for some aircraft.

Quoting ukair (Reply 30):
Why did the flight crew try to land in these conditions? If the conditions where below minimums they should have diverted to a safer airport.

The Wx conditions at the time we well inside the minimum for the ILS, 300' cloud base and 1200 m visibility. The reported conditions at the time put the cloud base at 10,000 ft, with some areas of scattered could at 2500’, and visibility of 3000m.

It is worth noting that the airport elevation is around 1700', and the aircraft it would appear from initial reports has come down slightly off the approach path for runway 30, around 3 nm from the airport. They should have been around 1000' at that stage. There was no larger difference in the QNH from 1013, I am at a loss to explain why they would have been so low that far out.

Viper911 · Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:51 am

According to Wikipedia and air safety network, the plane was AP-BKC, with 6 crew on board and not 9 as previously stated.

RIP.

sshd · Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:02 am

From avherald:

OPRN 201500Z 05030KT 4000 TS FEW025CB SCT030 BKN100 20/16 Q1014.3/29.95
OPRN 201400Z 23020KT 3000 TSRA FEW025CB SCT030 BKN100 20/16 Q1011.0/29.85
OPRN 201300Z 23020KT 4000 TS FEW025CB SCT030 BKN100 25/15 Q1009.3/29.80
OPRN 201220Z 23034KT 6000 HZ FEW030TCU SCT040 BKN100
OPRN 201200Z 13022KT 6000 FEW030TCU SCT040 BKN100 31/14 Q1008.8/29.79
OPRN 201110Z 13016KT 6000 RA FEW030TCU SCT040 BKN100
OPRN 201110Z 23034KT 6000 HZ FEW030TCU SCT040 BKN100
OPRN 201100Z 13016KT 6000 FEW030TCU SCT040 32/13 Q1009.1/29.79

Francoflier · Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:55 am

I've found this link of a local forum where someone posted miscellaneous pics of Bhoja Air and it's crew in better days.
I hesitated in posting it as it also contains a list of the passengers/victims...

http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/airc...57-bad-news-bhoja-airplane-crash-4

It was probably a quick and painless event for the departed. I feel for the families.
RIP.

76er · Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:03 am

Quoting Aviational (Reply 36):
Eye witnesses around the area are saying that lightning struck the aircraft and it exploded right away !

Which is what eyewitnesses report at just about every crash...

sankaps · Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:44 am

Reports now coming in that the pilots called in a Mayday, saying the engine / wing was on fire before the fuel tanks apparently exploded. This is as per ATC.

bueb0g · Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:08 am

Quoting 76er (Reply 41):
Which is what eyewitnesses report at just about every crash...

You can't trust eyewitnesses who don't know what they're looking at - practically every accident in the history of aviation has had eyewitnesses saying it was "on fire in the air".

aeroblogger · Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:25 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 40):
I've found this link of a local forum where someone posted miscellaneous pics of Bhoja Air and it's crew in better days.
I hesitated in posting it as it also contains a list of the passengers/victims...

http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/airc...ash-4

Not sure what you mean by better days? The airline is less than a year old...

(It also existed between 1993 and 2000, but that was completely different)

[Edited 2012-04-21 04:27:12]

liquidair · Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:43 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 42):

If combined with a lightning strike, could that suggest fuel ignition like Pan Am 214? I know it's just speculation, but sounds similar.

we have systems to prevent that happening now, right?

[Edited 2012-04-21 05:52:00]

RayChuang · Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:57 pm

It appears that the crash was probably caused by the plane flying into a microburst during that thunderstorm and the pilots did not properly respond to the situation.

rcair1 · Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:02 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 46):
It appears that the crash was probably caused by the plane flying into a microburst during that thunderstorm and the pilots did not properly respond to the situation.

Basis?

vv701 · Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:22 pm

Quoting cabso1 (Reply 5):
Reports are that this was the inaugural flight and that there are no survivors.

Bhoja restarted operations on 6 March when one of their 732s operated KHI-LHE (B4 115). It had previously ceased operations in 2000 due to financial difficulties.

Quoting mjabbasi (Reply 8):
My friend who works at KHI airport saw it take off and says it was AP-BKD.

From The BA Source at:

http://thebasource.com/

"Today’s Bhoja Air crash in Pakistan in which 127 people lost their lives involved former British Airways Boeing 737-236ADV G-BKYI."

Quoting rj777 (Reply 21):
The PRINT article is referencing a 737-200, but the VIDEO is saying an Airbus A321. Same news outlet. "

Bhoja Air operated four Boeing 737 236s:

AP-AKB CN 21793. LN 635. Delivered as G-BGDD to British Airways in February '80 and then as ZS-NNG to Comair in September '95 returning to BA livery after Comair was appointed a British Airways franchise operator in October '96. Bhoja Air leased January '12.

AP-AKC CN 23167. LN 1074. Delivered as G-BYYI to British Airways in January '85 and then as ZS-OLB to Comair dba British Airways in June '99 . Bhoja Air leased January '12.

AP-AKD CN 23163. LN 1058. Delivered as G-BKYE to British Airways in November '80 and then as ZS-OLA to Comair dba British Airways in April '99 . Bhoja Air leased January '12.

AP-AKE CN 21797. LN 653. Delivered as G-BGDH to British Airways in April '80 and then as ZS-NNH to Comair in September '95 returning to BA livery )after Comair was appointed a British Airways franchise operator in October '96. Bhoja Air leased January '12.

fn1001 · Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 46):
It appears that the crash was probably caused by the plane flying into a microburst during that thunderstorm

Speculation or fact? Any evidence at this time?

My prayers for the victims and the families.

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