BA 77W Summer Routes And Complications

Mike909 · Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:47 pm

Welcome to my first a.net post

I'm due to fly on BA179 next month, and I know it is operated daily by the 77W's. Although whilst tracking the flight continuously, it seems it is occasionally operated by 772's, around once in a fortnight, on an unpredictable basis.

Tracking BA 77W's routes to try and see how the 6 77W's are scheduled, these are the routes:

BA5 LHR - NRT
BA6 NRT - LHR

BA169 LHR - PVG
BA168 PVG - LHR

BA27 LHR - HKG
BA28 HKG - LHR

BA179 LHR - JFK
BA182 JFK - LHR

All these are daily services, and then there is

BA279 LHR - LAX
BA278 LAX - LHR (which I don't think are daily).

Confused as to how they are scheduled and why BA179 is sometimes operated by the 772's with the inferior product on board. Normally, upon returning from HKG as BA28 at dawn, the same a/c would head to LAX as BA278 3 hour later, but don't see how the 77W's are schedules, as service is not daily. Are there any other flights operated by the 77W's?

Regards

GT4EZY · Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:11 pm

I can't answer your question but the Y class on the BA 77W is a world apart from the rest of the long haul fleet.....imo.

Mike909 · Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:23 pm

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 1):

I can't answer your question but the Y class on the BA 77W is a world apart from the rest of the long haul fleet.....imo.

hence why if it's a 772, I'll be distraught

GSTBA · Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting Mike909 (Thread starter):
the same a/c would head to LAX as BA278 3 hour later, but don't see how the 77W's are schedules, as service is not daily

The flight to LAX BA279 operates daily.

Quoting Mike909 (Thread starter):
Confused as to how they are scheduled and why BA179 is sometimes operated by the 772's with the inferior product on board

As was the case last summer BA179 is scheduled to be operated by a 77W 6 x Weekly an a 772 weekly. This summer the 772 is scheduled to operate BA179 every Thursday. The weekly 772 flight is always planned as being operated by 1 of the 772's that are fitted with the new F product (G-VIIU, V, W, X & Y). By having one aircraft out of service each week it allows BA to carry out any maintenance on the aircraft.

skipness1E · Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:43 am

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 2):
hence why if it's a 772, I'll be distraught

Is it SUCH a big deal really? What class are you flying?
http://www.libhomeradar.org/databasequery/index.php
Try this and selecting "contains" and "G-STB" under reg you can easily keep track of what the newbies are doing.

GSTBA · Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 4):
http://www.libhomeradar.org/databasequery/index.php
Try this and selecting "contains" and "G-STB" under reg you can easily keep track of what the newbies are doing.

Another way to track them is through BA source

http://www.thebasource.com/jettracker.html

Mike909 · Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:56 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 4):
What class are you flying?

World Traveller Plus, although there is a lack of information and pictures available for this new premium economy product,

GSTBA, I prefer tracking them using flightradar24 and plane finder. Makes sense that BA28 from HKG which lands at 05:50 heads to LAX at 9:40.
BA5 and BA169 are both lunchtime departures, so I assume they use the same a/c's which were operated on BA182 and from BA278 from LAX, although I cannot recognise a regular scheme as to which one heads to NRT and which goes to PVG.
This means that one of the a/c's returning from NRT or PVG as BA6 and BA168 is used as BA179, and the other is saved until BA27 to HKG @22:00

Except when they are left for a day for maintenance, I have never understood the feasibility of leaving them on the ground for over 5 hours.

GSTBA · Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:14 am

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 6):
World Traveller Plus, although there is a lack of information and pictures available for this new premium economy product,

http://www.britishairways.com/travel...-world-traveller-plus/public/en_gb

Click on preview new cabin

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 6):
although I cannot recognise a regular scheme as to which one heads to NRT and which goes to PVG

There is no regular scheme to what aircraft ops what. Since the 19th April each aircraft has op as follows:

G-STBA - LHR-PVG-LHR-JFK-LHR-NRT-LHR-JFK-PVG-LHR
G-STBB - (Did not op 19th & 20th) LHR-PVG-LHR-HKG-LHR-LAX-LHR
G-STBC - HKG-LHR-NRT-LHR-JFK-LHR-PVG-LHR-HKG-LHR
G-STBD - LHR-JFK-LHR-PVG-LHR-HKG-LHR-LAX-LHR-NRT-LHR
G-STBE - LHR-HKG-LHR-LAX-LHR-NRT-LHR-JFK-LHR-JFK-LHR
G-STBF - LHR-NRT-LHR-HKG-LHR-LAX-LHR-NRT-LHR-HKG

[Edited 2012-04-24 18:19:54]

GSTBA · Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:39 am

BA have started to release there W12 schedule.

W12 will see the 77W being used to operate the following flights

CHICAGO

BA297 LHR 16:15 - 18:45 ORD D
BA296 ORD 20:35 - 10:05 LHR D

DALLAS FORT WORTH

BA193 LHR 10:45 - 14:40 DFW D

BA192 DFW 16:45 - 07:35 LHR x36
BA192 DFW 16:50 - 07:40 LHR 36

HONG KONG

BA027 LHR 21:55 - 17:35 HKG 35
BA027 LHR 21:55 - 17:40 HKG x35

BA028 HKG 23:45 - 05:00 LHR D

MUMBAI

BA139 LHR 10:15 - 00:45 BOM D
BA138 BOM 02:45 - 07:10 LHR D

TOKYO

BA005 LHR 12:25 - 09:15 NRT D
BA006 NRT 11:10 - 14:45 LHR D

Mike909 · Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:24 pm

Interesting

According to the BA Source, G-STBF operated BA293 and BA292 to IAD and back. Was this planned?

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 3):
This summer the 772 is scheduled to operate BA179 every Thursday.

Multiple tracking sights, including basource, flightradar24 and plane finder seem to disagree. Most Thursdays operated by 77W. Seems completely random.

Tristarsteve · Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:14 pm

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 6):
Except when they are left for a day for maintenance, I have never understood the feasibility of leaving them on the ground for over 5 hours.

Six aircraft need more than one day a week for maintenance between them. If you try and do main base maintenance only during 2 hr turns, it builds up, so you need some longer home base turns to catch up, and do things like weekly checks properly.

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 9):
Quoting GSTBA (Reply 3):
This summer the 772 is scheduled to operate BA179 every Thursday.

Multiple tracking sights, including basource, flightradar24 and plane finder seem to disagree. Most Thursdays operated by 77W. Seems completely random.

But he is right. BA179 is PLANNED for a 772 on Thursdays.

B747forever · Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:27 pm

According to FR24 BA279 has been operated once by the 772 and a few times by the 744 instead of the scheduled 77W.

Mike909 · Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:28 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 10):
But he is right. BA179 is PLANNED for a 772 on Thursdays.

How far do airlines arrange the schedules for their aircraft? As it seems like a necessity to arrange which aircraft goes where and when, and when each aircraft is scheduled for maintenance checks? Not having a schedule can lead to not having suitable aircraft available for flights. However the rotation of the 6 77W's seems too random to be organised. Notices this with many other airlines, such as when I tracked NZ's 744's throughout 2010-11 on NZ1/2 until their replacement

So if airlines don't really plan a schedule for each a/c, then isn't this inviting the risk of delays .etc and not having planned aircraft available?

theginge · Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 12):
However the rotation of the 6 77W's seems too random to be organised.

Based on the original post BA's 77Ws seem to fly to a set list of destinations, so it is organised in that respect.

But how they rotate between them isn't always the same but I wouldn't call it random, they will change based on the day to day operation with various factors influencing what order each aircraft rotates between the set destiantions.

Mike909 · Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:09 pm

What about the random unplanned flight to IAD on G-STBF earlier this month?

Tristarsteve · Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 12):
However the rotation of the 6 77W's seems too random to be organised

In the ops planning office at Waterside, there is a map on the wall with a cork backing. During the nightshift one of the planners takes out his set of 6 77W darts and throws them at the map. This is where the 77Ws will go that day.
They then tell reservations that there are a lot of empty seats on these planes, and they ring around and try and sell the seats.

GSTBA · Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 11):
According to FR24 BA279 has been operated once by the 772 and a few times by the 744 instead of the scheduled 77W.

Since the start of the S12 schedule you are correct BA279 has operated once as a 772 and twice on a 744. Details below.

26th March - Flight was meant to have been operated by the inbound 77W from HKG. Flight was delayed by a day due to crew sickness in HKG. It was decided to that 772 G-YMMO would operate in it's place.

19th April - A technical problem with G-STBB at LHR resulted in flight being operated by 747 reg
G-BNLY

20th April - With G-STBB still tech a 747 reg G-CIVE was used as a replacement

It is worth remembering there are only 6 77W's in BA's fleet. Should just 1 of the aircraft either go tech or pick up a significant delay then BA will swap not delay the sector it is meant to operate they WILL then use a 772 or 747 in it's place.

scrappy27 · Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:14 pm

our 77W's ahve also been spotted (unscheduled) in PHL.

Mike909 · Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:26 pm

Lets pray there's no delay when I go on BA179

Dying to see the new World Traveller + product.
Pictures on BA website aren't very revealing.

To BA have plans to apply the same product from 77W's to 772 ERs?

qf002 · Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 12):

It's not at all random. There may not be a constant pattern, but each aircraft is scheduled based around maintenance, cycles, hours and so on... BA probably knows exactly what each aircraft will be doing for the next month or longer, aside from any subs that might occur. The schedule might change based on day to day factors that arise, but the computer is in charge these days, and will automatically update the schedule for the entire fleet in response to any changes.

Sketty222 · Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:21 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 3):
The flight to LAX BA279 operates daily.

I thought this until I saw......

Quoting B747forever (Reply 11):
According to FR24 BA279 has been operated once by the 772 and a few times by the 744 instead of the scheduled 77W.

and then I thought it was a x5 a week service on the 77W

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 15):
In the ops planning office at Waterside, there is a map on the wall with a cork backing. During the nightshift one of the planners takes out his set of 6 77W darts and throws them at the map. This is where the 77Ws will go that day.
They then tell reservations that there are a lot of empty seats on these planes, and they ring around and try and sell the seats.

Having worked is Res this would make complete sense haha

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 18):
Dying to see the new World Traveller + product.
Pictures on BA website aren't very revealing.

The new 77W product is very nice. I was lucky enough to get onboard one of the 77W earlier this year and the WT and WTP cabins are far superior in looks and comfort to the current product IMO. I'm travelling on BA279 next Monday and hoping it doesnt get substituted for a 772 or 744 as I've never flown 10.5hrs+ on a 77W and I'm looking forward to it

qf002 · Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:39 pm

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 18):

Flew the 77W in January, very nice... I thought I had a couple of proper photos of the W cabin, but this is the best I can find:

Mike909 · Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:49 pm

Does look entirely superior to one on 744s and 772s.

Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 20):
hoping it doesnt get substituted for a 772 or 744

same with me - BA179, never actually been on a 77W yet

GSTBA · Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:44 am

Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 20):
The new 77W product is very nice. I was lucky enough to get onboard one of the 77W earlier this year and the WT and WTP cabins are far superior in looks and comfort to the current product IMO. I'm travelling on BA279 next Monday and hoping it doesnt get substituted for a 772 or 744 as I've never flown 10.5hrs+ on a 77W and I'm looking forward to it

I travelled on the 77W's little clone, 777 G-RAES last week, The new seats and IFE make such a difference.

The BA279 is operated by the inbound BA028 from HKG. They will only sub it to a 747 if the aircraft is delayed for longer than 3.5 hours inbound. So you should be fine.

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 22):
same with me - BA179, never actually been on a 77W yet

When you traveling on the BA179?

hz747300 · Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:46 am

I flew from JFK to LHR on a 77W for BA last September and captured it here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157627805832524/

It was quite a nice flight, I was in World Traveller Plus. The best improvement was with the selections on the PTV versus the older fleet.

Hope you get it!

B747forever · Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:50 am

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 16):
26th March - Flight was meant to have been operated by the inbound 77W from HKG. Flight was delayed by a day due to crew sickness in HKG. It was decided to that 772 G-YMMO would operate in it's place.

19th April - A technical problem with G-STBB at LHR resulted in flight being operated by 747 reg
G-BNLY

20th April - With G-STBB still tech a 747 reg G-CIVE was used as a replacement

According to FR24 BA279 was operated by G-BNLY on the 28th of March also.

vv701 · Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:20 pm

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 18):
To BA have plans to apply the same product from 77W's to 772 ERs?

My understanding is that the new W and Y Class cabins are already in service on 772ER G-RAES and that all the other older 772s that are fitted with the outdated 12-channel GEC Marconi GMIS IFE system (772ERs G-V IIA to 'IH and 'IJ to 'IN and 772As G-ZZZA to 'ZC) will be similarly refitted. However I have heard of no plans to update the newer GE powered 772s' W or Y Class cabins or those of any of their RR powered fleet.

BA are doing these conversions themselves. I do not think that they have quite completed the planned installations of their "New First" cabins. They have also just started the planned refurbishment of the cabins of seven of their long haul 763s with one aircraft, G-BNWW, already back in service. Further they will start the refurbishment of their short haul 763 fleet's cabins next month (May).

The series of programmes detailed above started immediately after the completion of the installation of the second generation J Class lie-flat seat in BA's four-class long-haul aircraft. And it was in parallel with the update to their 734s' cabins. And before that there was the installation of the slim-back seats in their older short-haul aircraft.

So it looks as if it is a bit like the Forth Rail Bridge that, until very recent advances in paint technology, had always had a gang of painters working onit from when it was completed more than a hundred years ago in 1890.. Similarly cabin refurbishment and updates seem, at least at BA, to be a never ending task.

milemaster · Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:35 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 8):
BA193 LHR 10:45 - 14:40 DFW D

BA192 DFW 16:45 - 07:35 LHR x36
BA192 DFW 16:50 - 07:40 LHR 36

This is operated by a 744 today. Will that be no more?

vv701 · Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:28 pm

Quoting milemaster (Reply 28):
This is operated by a 744 today. Will that be no more?

BA193/92 is scheduled to be operated by a 744 up until 27 October.

From 28 October until 30 March it is scheduled as a 77W.

Beyond 30 March . . . We'll have to wait and see.

Mike909 · Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:14 pm

hz747300, looks brilliant, with some great wing views as well!

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 23):
When you traveling on the BA179?

Wednesday June 27, then on to Vermont from there. Any guarantee of 77W ?

GSTBA, noticed on flight radar, that BA179 is being operated by 772 G-VIIH tonight. Do you reckon this is because it is a Thursday (even though many other Thursday's, 77W's are operated, or the fact that today BA6 from NRT is running 5 hours late?

Tristarsteve · Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 30):
noticed on flight radar, that BA179 is being operated by 772 G-VIIH tonight. Do you reckon this is because it is a Thursday (even though many other Thursday's, 77W's are operated, or the fact that today BA6 from NRT is running 5 hours late?

Todays BA179 has always been a B777-200. BA6 had no impact on the lact of 77W today.
It is planned as 77W next 6 days, but not Thur May 3 when it is a 200 again.

Mike909 · Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:51 pm

Some Thursdays are 77W operated, despite original plan for 772 Thursdays.
Are all other days 100% planned 77W?

BA5 to NRT was over 6 hours late I belive, causing the knock on effect of BA6 today, back to LHR. Anyone know the reason for this delay yesterday?

pnd100 · Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:09 pm

Quick question, according to the BA website;

"The new World Traveller Plus experience is available right now on the latest addition to our fleet, the state-of-the-art Boeing 777-300ER, operating on selected flights to and from Mumbai, Chicago, Delhi, Dubai, New York JFK, Tokyo Narita and Hong Kong."

Yet that does not show in the W12 schedule shown in reply 8. Is that the full 77W schedule?
On another note, is there any chance of seeing a BA 77W introduced to YYZ?

Mike909 · Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:29 pm

Quoting pnd100 (Reply 33):
Yet that does not show in the W12 schedule shown in reply 8. Is that the full 77W schedule?

As far as I know, that was released as W11 schedule, and the website was never updated.

Quoting pnd100 (Reply 33):
On another note, is there any chance of seeing a BA 77W introduced to YYZ?

I doubt it. BA use a 763 on this route and a 744. The fact that a 763 is used on this route suggests to me that there isn't the greatest demand, and it is not considered as prestigious as other BA routes. NRT, PVG, HKG, JFK, seem more business routes than leisure. Especially considering that as I see from seatguru.com, the economy cabin of BA 77W does not start until end of wing.

pnd100 · Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 34):
As far as I know, that was released as W11 schedule, and the website was never updated.

So BA does not fly a 77W into DEL? I checked on their website & both BA143 & BA257 LHR-DEL are showing equipment as "747 Jet" (as opposed to the lesser known 747 props! :p)

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 34):
I doubt it. BA use a 763 on this route and a 744. The fact that a 763 is used on this route suggests to me that there isn't the greatest demand, and it is not considered as prestigious as other BA routes. NRT, PVG, HKG, JFK, seem more business routes than leisure. Especially considering that as I see from seatguru.com, the economy cabin of BA 77W does not start until end of wing.

In the winter we usually see the 77E but you are right that YYZ is not as premium as PVG, HKG or JFK. The new premium economy product on the 77W looks good. I flew the old WTP on a BA 744 from BOM & it was comfortable so the new one must be even better

rwk823 · Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:59 pm

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 34):
I doubt it. BA use a 763 on this route and a 744. The fact that a 763 is used on this route suggests to me that there isn't the greatest demand, and it is not considered as prestigious as other BA routes. NRT, PVG, HKG, JFK, seem more business routes than leisure. Especially considering that as I see from seatguru.com, the economy cabin of BA 77W does not start until end of wing.

I agree that YYZ will not get a 77W but disagree with most of your reasoning. The fact that they have a 747 on the route and it's twice daily suggests that it's not necessarily leisure. Admittedly they do use mid-J config. but its still a 744. Added to the fact that most of BA's L/H configurations the Y cabin is starts towards the back of the wing. Two of the destinations you mention in NRT and PVG only see 1xdaily flight which means that there is, on a typical day, an additional 20 J class seats on the YYZ route suggest that demand is there.

The reason that I can see YYZ not getting a 77W is that for some reason they seem to be replacing High-J 744 routes, which stands to reason your prestigousness point.

pnd100 · Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:05 pm

Quoting rwk823 (Reply 35):
I agree that YYZ will not get a 77W but disagree with most of your reasoning. The fact that they have a 747 on the route and it's twice daily suggests that it's not necessarily leisure. Admittedly they do use mid-J config. but its still a 744. Added to the fact that most of BA's L/H configurations the Y cabin is starts towards the back of the wing. Two of the destinations you mention in NRT and PVG only see 1xdaily flight which means that there is, on a typical day, an additional 20 J class seats on the YYZ route suggest that demand is there.

The reason that I can see YYZ not getting a 77W is that for some reason they seem to be replacing High-J 744 routes, which stands to reason your prestigousness point.

I agree that YYZ can fill the 77W without a problem, even the 56J. Given the limited number of 77W currently available I understand why they have been deployed to destinations even more "prestigious" or "premium" than YYZ. Based on pure capacity, YYZ can even fill a double daily 77W service but BA does not have that many to go around.

tonystan · Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:27 am

G-VIIL has returned to service and now sports the new WT and WTP cabins along with the Thales IFE system.

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