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B595
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NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:02 am

In case this was missed*.....

The first 30 seconds is the best example of low-level windshear I've seen captured on video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0jnahV81AU

Hats off to the flight crew for the solid recovery.

Also, the All Blacks A320 makes a cameo later in the video.

* Disclaimer: I haven't seen this posted and a search of Civ Av and Tech Ops didn't turn up anything.
 
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zkojq
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:54 am

Ah, a regular day in Wellington then.   

Quoting B595 (Thread starter):
Hats off to the flight crew for the solid recovery.

Very much so.
First to fly the 787-9
 
stevenlee505
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:06 am

Holy smokes that was extremely close to the ground. That is definitely top-notch recovery right there.
 
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EK413
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:13 am

Without starting a A vs B war why do the A320s seem "stable" as opposed to the B737s...

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
Motorhussy
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:01 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 3):
Without starting a A vs B war why do the A320s seem "stable" as opposed to the B737s

May have been, and probably was, chance but did you not notice the stability in the air with the seeming instantaneous trimming of flaps and ailerons of the NZ and JQ A320's when compared particularly with the NZ 733's and less so with the 738's of QF and DJ??!! The turboprops were the unsung heroes though... whether Canadian or Franco/Italian.
come visit the south pacific
 
Mike909
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:38 pm

I've flown on an NZ 733 into WLG

certainly an experience!
 
ncl2011
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:52 pm

wow, almost doesnt seem real.
 
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EK413
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 4):
May have been, and probably was, chance but did you not notice the stability in the air with the seeming instantaneous trimming of flaps and ailerons of the NZ and JQ A320's when compared particularly with the NZ 733's and less so with the 738's of QF and DJ??!!


I wouldn't be asking the question had I noticed...

The turbo props certainly performed well, very well a matter of fact...

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:02 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 3):
Without starting a A vs B war why do the A320s seem "stable" as opposed to the B737s...

Coincidence.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
Checo77
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:30 pm

Can someone please explain to me (non-native English speaker) what exactly "windshear" is  
Btw, the video is incredible!!!

Thanks!

Adam

[Edited 2012-04-29 09:48:55]
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
iFlyLOTs
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:39 pm

I wonder how many landings that first guy put in his logbook   

But those were some pretty incredible landings
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
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zeke
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:59 pm

Quoting jbirdav8r (Reply 8):
Coincidence.

Not really, the A320 has a feature called GS mini, the aircraft maintains a constant ground speed on final approach, the target indicated airspeed changes automatically to achieve this. By maintaining a constant ground speed, the aircraft is able to maintain a constant glide path better. Otherwise when the aircraft is maintaining a constant IAS, every time the wind changes, the rate of descent needed to maintain the constant glide path needs to be adjusted.

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 9):
Can someone please explain to me (non-native English speaker) what exactly "windshear" is

Windshear is basically just a sudden change of wind direction and/or speed.
Airports like Wellington have terrain nearby which upsets the prevailing wind, so it is common at say 1000 ft to have 50 kts of crosswind, 500 ft 15 kts of headwind and 30 kts of headwind, and then as you get close to the ground wind gusting in all directions. Aircraft prefer to have constant, or gradually decaying wind speeds and directions on final approach.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
cbphoto
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:01 pm

Ahh yes..all in the days work of an airline pilot! Great recovery though!

Quoting EK413 (Reply 3):
Without starting a A vs B war why do the A320s seem "stable" as opposed to the B737s...

Talking to numerous 737 and airbus pilots, they say that in some respects, the A320 (series) is easier to land in a crosswind, due to the height of the gear in relation to the ground. A 737 sits a lot lower, and the likely hood of an engine/wing strike are slightly higher, then the bus, which requires more finesse from the 737 pilots! Again, this is only what I have heard talking to the guys/gals who fly them!



Quoting Checo77 (Reply 9):
Can someone please explain to me (non-native English speaker) what exactly "windshear" is

Well..Windshear is essentially a wind shift, where the winds either change direction or speed rapidly! This causes the aircraft to either gain or loose airspeed rapidly, (in this case it appears the ANZ aircraft lost speed) and this in turn can cause the plane to loose altitude rather quickly!

Judging by the video, the NZ crew did a text book windshear recovery!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
asteriskceo
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:35 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X40F40mIDGk

Skip to the 8 minute mark for the action.
 
Wisdom
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:52 pm

Very good recovery, quick reaction on the elevators and the engines.

Only point of concern is that they were seemingly under the impression of their own recovery and switched into go-around mode that they raised their landing gears too early. After such a heavy balked landing, speed is a concern but as much of concern is the integrity of the struts and stays.

I would have waited to see whether any indicators popped on (pointing to bent metal or leaks or even a landing gear gone missing like it happened to a TNT Airways B737) or even done a gear check with the tower before raising.
A damaged landing gear can do a lot more damage if it's retracted, given the extensive presence of hydraulic and flight control systems in the main gear bay.

[Edited 2012-04-29 11:55:43]
 
texan
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:30 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 1):
Ah, a regular day in Wellington then.

  

It is close to a weekly occurrence on average. Worse during winter and spring. Last year we had so many days with gusts over 100 kmh from various directions that I lost count. Always good fun to go up Mount Vic and watch the planes come in, though, and see who decides to go around and who decides to give it a shot. Great job by the pilots down here.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
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flylku
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting texan (Reply 15):
It is close to a weekly occurrence on average. Worse during winter and spring. Last year we had so many days with gusts over 100 kmh from various directions that I lost count.

How do I get the tire concession there? They must smoke a lot of them!
...are we there yet?
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:58 pm

Quoting B595 (Thread starter):
The first 30 seconds is the best example of low-level windshear I've seen captured on video.

I guess you haven't seen this one yet then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rMeaPZCquo&sns=em
 
PGNCS
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 14):
Only point of concern is that they were seemingly under the impression of their own recovery and switched into go-around mode that they raised their landing gears too early.

Really? According to what published procedure?

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 14):
After such a heavy balked landing, speed is a concern but as much of concern is the integrity of the struts and stays.

Again, according to what published guidance?

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 14):
I would have waited to see whether any indicators popped on (pointing to bent metal or leaks or even a landing gear gone missing like it happened to a TNT Airways B737) or even done a gear check with the tower before raising.

Really? Is that guidance published anywhere? Many airlines specifically discontinued tower inspection flybys years ago.

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 14):
A damaged landing gear can do a lot more damage if it's retracted, given the extensive presence of hydraulic and flight control systems in the main gear bay.

Do you have a source that these pilots had reason to believe they had any kind of landing gear problem? Do you have any procedural source germane to these operations for your assertions about what you would have done?
 
Motorhussy
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:04 am

Every aborted landing I've been aboard into WLG has (coincidentally) been on an NZ 733 with the exception of an NZ F27 which went around because a QF 747sp was still on the runway. Wonder what the actual WLG stats are on aircraft type and its percentage/ratio of aborted landings.

WLG is challenging both for its weather and runway length with these conditions making for some great flight crews that operate here.
come visit the south pacific
 
Max Q
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:24 am

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 12):

Talking to numerous 737 and airbus pilots, they say that in some respects, the A320 (series) is easier to land in a crosswind, due to the height of the gear in relation to the ground. A 737 sits a lot lower, and the likely hood of an engine/wing strike are slightly higher, then the bus, which requires more finesse from the 737 pilots! Again, this is only what I have heard talking to the guys/gals who fly them!

That is complete nonsense.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
cbphoto
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:11 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 20):
That is complete nonsense.

Yes. I will tell that to the numerous Frontier pilots I have talked to who have flown both the 737 and A32X series! You think their thoughts on crosswind techniques on both aircraft are nonsense! I seriously can't make this stuff up!!!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
AR385
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:05 am

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 9):
Can someone please explain to me (non-native English speaker) what exactly "windshear" is
Quoting zeke (Reply 11):
Windshear is basically just a sudden change of wind direction and/or speed.

Checo77,

The explanations already provided to you are great. The only thing I can add is that in Spain, for example, that phenomena is called "Cortante de Viento." I suppose it is derived from its English name. In any case, it does seem like a giant scythe cuts through the wind, generating a sudden change in speed and direction and provokes trouble.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:37 am

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 12):
Talking to numerous 737 and airbus pilots, they say that in some respects, the A320 (series) is easier to land in a crosswind, due to the height of the gear in relation to the ground. A 737 sits a lot lower, and the likely hood of an engine/wing strike are slightly higher, then the bus, which requires more finesse from the 737 pilots! Again, this is only what I have heard talking to the guys/gals who fly them!

I heard from some of my friends in Ryanair that the 737NG can be tricky in crosswind due to those big winglets..

I find the Airbus very easy to land, so maybe you are right.
 
rg787
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:38 am

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 14):
Only point of concern is that they were seemingly under the impression of their own recovery and switched into go-around mode that they raised their landing gears too early. After such a heavy balked landing, speed is a concern but as much of concern is the integrity of the struts and stays.

I would have waited to see whether any indicators popped on (pointing to bent metal or leaks or even a landing gear gone missing like it happened to a TNT Airways B737) or even done a gear check with the tower before raising.
A damaged landing gear can do a lot more damage if it's retracted, given the extensive presence of hydraulic and flight control systems in the main gear bay.

Don't have any official proof for this but I think they actually did it right, what I hear around is that all you want in this situation is to reduce drag, and the landing gear provides a lot of it. I also remember hearing that maintaining the landing gear down is better in this aspect on some airplanes because the drag the landing gear doors produce will just be worse than leaving the landing gear down until you gain speed, but in this case, I think the 737 landing gear doors are rather small and shouldn't produce too much drag.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:45 am

Quoting rg787 (Reply 24):

Don't know about the 737, but in the Airbus QRH 80.10 it states that:

"DO NOT CHANGE CONFIGURATION (SLATS/FLAPS, GEAR) UNTIL OUT OF
SHEAR."
 
rendezvous
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:51 am

It looks like it was out of any shear when the gear started retracting. It was still in turbulence (probably up to a few thousand feet), but not shear.
 
Pihero
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RE: NZ 733 Severe LL Windshear Jan. 2012- Video

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:32 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 22):
The only thing I can add is that in Spain, for example, that phenomena is called "Cortante de Viento." I suppose it is derived from its English name. In any case, it does seem like a giant scythe cuts through the wind, generating a sudden change in speed and direction and provokes trouble.

Not really. Picture the two directions the winds come from : they draw the branches of a pair of scissors or shear. Zeke's definition comes right into that picture... and of course, dramatisation of a phenomenon is good as it helps people keep being cautious and vigilant.
In the same subject, some purists - and some scientists - associate windshear only with weat-her phenomena : microbursts, tempearature inversions, cold front wall, etc...
This type of violent changes of velocity and direction is given the name of non-linear wind gradient, as it gets farther from the ideal - and theoretical - Ekman spiral.

Quoting rg787 (Reply 24):
I also remember hearing that maintaining the landing gear down is better in this aspect on some airplanes because the drag the landing gear doors produce will just be worse than leaving the landing gear down until you gain speed

You remember right . Congrats . Basically on most airplanes I've flown, one item of the emergency drill is "Keep the config as it is until out of the danger zone.
The 737 is an exception as it doesn't really have main gear doors.
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