Good afternoon folks and welcome to our seventh thread of 2012!

It's been a fairly quiet few weeks; we're into the Summer season now and most, if not all, of the new routes for 2012 have already been announced. There are some interesting pointers to positive developments in 2013 and of course, we have some capacity changes, most significantly, the Emirates 777s which should have their first flight to Ireland from Tuesday; it's back to A330s for June, but then back to 777s in July, for what should be a long relationship between Emirates 777s and Dublin; with over 60 now on order, we should be seeing these for many years to come!

Let's hope the weather improves, because it's not been the most pleasant of starts to the Summer season!

Here's the link to 6/12: Irish 6/12: Flying Into Summer (by kaitak Apr 8 2012 in Civil Aviation)

And here goes No.7; enjoy!

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter): It's been a fairly quiet few weeks

The rather stagnant nature of Irish Aviation over the past couple of years has certainly taken its toll on these threads. The threads are noticeably quieter now. Irish 7/07, in contrast, was opened on February 3rd. Back then a week would rarely go by without a new thread being opened!

In other news..



The Olympic torch made an unplanned stop at Shannon on Friday when BA2036 en route to Heathrow had to divert.




Lufthansa's Knock-Dusseldorf service commences next Saturday.



Dublin Aerospace has recently won a contract from British Airways.

"Dublin Aerospace has ambitious plans for growth ahead in two years time when the Aer Lingus Base Maintenance contract comes up for renewal it will bid for the A330s to win the A320 family business contract.

The company plans to develop it’s APU Service Centre in addition to generating repeat airline fleet business from it’s existing customers Aer Lingus, Air Via and XL Airways Germany.

The company plans to develop its relationship with the aircraft lessors with Ireland a leading centre in the business with the large concenration in the IFSC and Shannon".

Great to see EK B777 earlier than we could have imagined . Fingers crossed for a lounge  

The painting and cabin refit of BD fleet is speeding ahead as quoted by AShamrock in the previous thread. Will be weird to see those Regs in BA livery   Even more so on approach to DUB but welcome all the same.

It's great to see traffic stabilizing, and looking forward to some growth this summer.

what aircraft are Turkish using this summer? Any widebody substitutes this summer?

Any Lufthansa widebodies?

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 3): what aircraft are Turkish using this summer? Any widebody substitutes this summer? I think TK will mostly be flying 320s or 738s; with TK, you never really know - you could get 739s, 321s and probably the odd A330 here and there. Any Lufthansa widebodies?

None at all; LH doesn't fly widebodies on any short haul routes (unless it's a tag-on, to a L/H route, like CGK-SIN).

LH have scheduled Widebodies into dublin on specific dates over the summer in the past.

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter): the Emirates 777s which should have their first flight to Ireland from Tuesday; it's back to A330s for June, but then back to 777s in July,

All flights in June are also 777's, it's a permanent change from tomorrow.

Quoting EI320 (Reply 1): The rather stagnant nature of Irish Aviation over the past couple of years has certainly taken its toll on these threads. The threads are noticeably quieter now. Irish 7/07, in contrast, was opened on February 3rd. Back then a week would rarely go by without a new thread being opened!

I was just thinking the same thing! It is true that Irish aviation has been stagnent over the past couple of years but its not all bad! Much of our discussions from that period were in relation to industrial action at Aer Lingus which thank God seem to have improved somewhat in recent years. Taking the glass half full view, if there isn't much to talk about here indicates that at least means there isn't much bad news to report.

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 7): Much of our discussions from that period were in relation to industrial action at Aer Lingus which thank God seem to have improved somewhat in recent years.

Yes, indeed an improvement.
That and the Shannon saga were very big thread fillers. Now the Gold Circle must be up there as regular feature of complaint, cant ever recall a positive post on GC.

Quoting dstc47 (Reply 8): Now the Gold Circle must be up there as regular feature of complaint, cant ever recall a positive post on GC.

They just dont offer an attractive deal anymore. Most of us Irish based frequent flyers jumped ship to Alliance members years ago . Those that are in GC these days are either just going point to point on EI to EU and USA or are getting membership as part of a corporate deal. I was for many years GC and it was a decent enough program back in the OW days but then it all went budget and they didnt care about GC or their members. Now that we have jumped ship we have seen what a real program can offer and the benefits attatched to that. I dont think I would ever go back to GC even if they gave me a status match. The only way I can see me going back is if they join either Star or OW then it might be handy to have a home based program but thats never going to happen IMHO. The benefits are very limited and you can buy lounge access anyway so whats left other than earning miles and the odd upgrade for USA ?

---

Some news snippets. :

NI support urged for tourism plan

A plan to attract Irish descendants from around the world as part of a major tourism push for 2013 should be supported by Stormont, the SDLP has said.

The Republic's tourism minister Leo Varadkar hopes to attract 300,000 extra visitors, raising 200 million euro (£162 million) for the economy, through the initiative dubbed The Gathering.

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-n...rged-for-tourism-plan-3095303.html

---

Fexco to provide Aer Lingus with call centre services

Kerry-based payments and outsourcing group Fexco has won a contract from Aer Lingus to provide it with call centre services in a move that will create 25 jobs at its contact centre in Cahirciveen.

The contract was won following a tendering process and will run until January 2015. It was previously held by US-based Stream Global Services.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...nance/2012/0424/1224315103336.html

Back in as I'm sitting in T2 after dropping some clients off and awaiting other ones arriving on AF fom CDG which is an hour late..

I must give some personal positive feed on GC, as despite their constant IT failings and the fact that virtually all my inbound flights to DUB never seem to ha e their points created, I have observed the following minor improvements in past year:

- when I email them about any problems I have, I now find them to very quick replying, and that their responses are always friendly and aimed at SOLVING the problem to suit me.
- they now have the dedicated GC check in desks at T2 which are a breeze.
- I've noticed that such as a desk as appeared in many EU airports now and there always seems to be a desk inviting GC members.
- on presentation of the GC card we can use fast track lane at T2 security now.
- I've also noticed that during boarding announcements when they indicate what rows are to board, they now nearly always throw in "GC members may board when they wish at their leisure"
- and personally, I'm very fond of the new T2 GC lounge.

I believe these improvements are good for the market EI works in. My main objection is the points system and I feel it's should be awardedm at all fare class levels in an incremental fashion, as in a few points for the cheap fare, cause hey, we're still being LOYAL when booking a low fare, and points should increase based on fare.

Does anyone know if EI have FastPass terminals in Gatwick again yet? When they (and Transat) were moved to the main checkin area, the FastPass terminals vanished in the move.

Rarely had to use them as generally I was doing a

Main runway, 10/28, at DUB to be closed from tonight for 4 consecutive nights, from 11pm-5am; 16/34 will be in use during this time; closure is due to need for electrical works to be carried out.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/d...-close-for-four-nights-549652.html

Aer Lingus board to discuss transfer of maintenance operations from Shannon to Dublin


The move could affect up to 70 employees in the maintenance division in Shannon.

Informed sources said that the maintenance facility that would remain at Shannon would be "tiny", but that the move would consolidate engineering operations in Dublin.

As yet it is unclear what would happen to Shannon staff and how many would be offered redeployment to Dublin.

The item on the agenda circulated to directors refers to the "transfer of maintenance activity to Dublin".

One key issue is what would happen to the Aer Lingus maintenance hangar at Shannon, which is leased from the Dublin Airport Authority.

One source speculated that Aer Lingus might hope to transfer its hangar in Shannon to incoming Russian aviation maintenance company Transaero.

However, it is understood that that would require the approval of the DAA.

A spokesperson for the DAA said it never comments on speculation about any of its customers.

Transaero is Russia's second biggest airline and has just taken over Aer Atlanta Aero Engineering's operation at Shannon, which employs over 240 people.

A spokesperson for Transaero said that while it has plans to expand, it is very early days and its immediate priority is to keep its existing operation full.

In addition, Transaero maintenance operations focus on Boeing planes, while Aer Lingus flies Airbus aircraft


http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0430/aer...us-shannon-dublin-maintenance.html

Quoting ein105 (Reply 13): One key issue is what would happen to the Aer Lingus maintenance hangar at Shannon, which is leased from the Dublin Airport Authority.

Interesting, I highlighted this and then read on to see Transaero are amongst the parties listed as potential take over parties. From an EI perspective it makes sense to concentrate all maintenance on their new(ly re- acquired) facility in Hangar 6, the SNN operation is now superflous, I would think. How many hangars are down at SNN and what is occupancy like? Given the large number of Aircraft Lessors based at SNN and in the region I would have thought a good market would exist for third party maintenance, of couse a lessor being based in location X does not imply that any work would be done there, but all the same...

Brian.

Aer Lingus has one hangar at SNN and you'd commonly see an A330 parked in or just outside it.

Then there's other hangars belonging to Eirtech (painting and interior refurbs), Air Atlanta/Transaero, Shannon Aerospace, Signature Flight Services and Westair Aviation. I'm unsure of occupancy.

Did I leave any out?

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 5): LH have scheduled Widebodies into dublin on specific dates over the summer in the past.

That was when they had A300s and A310s. The much-expanded A321 fleet has in effect replaced these types.

Quoting EI320 (Reply 1): Dublin Aerospace has recently won a contract from British Airways.

Nice - is that your own photo?

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 14): From an EI perspective it makes sense to concentrate all maintenance on their new(ly re- acquired) facility in Hangar 6, the SNN operation is now superflous, I would think.

The reduction in A330 ops ex SNN has meant that A330's often have to be ferried to/from SNN for A checks which of course is a rather costly exercise in itself. Hangar 6, of course, is another contributing factor to this development.

It's a very unfortunate situation but it's been on the minds of the Shannon staff for quite some time.

Quoting EI320 (Reply 17): It's a very unfortunate situation but it's been on the minds of the Shannon staff for quite some time.

I'm surprised that EI had not moved to do this before now, especially since they stopped operating year round transatlantic services. As for the staff, well it is always unfortunate to see people loosing their jobs but at least those staff may have the option of reapplying to work for Transaero once they get settled in.

As for the occupancy levels at the SNN hangars, just from what I've heard and observed from my visits there. Air Atlanta always seems to have several aircraft both in the hangar and parked on the apron just in front of it so presumably, their occupancy level is pretty good and that's what made them an atttactive buy for Transaero. There was an article in local media a while back that mentioned Shannon Aerospace were on a reduced working week so one can deduce their occupancy level is not great. I have no idea of whether or not things have improved lately but there always seems to be at least one aircraft parked beside the hangar at any time so presumeably they must be getting some business. As for the other hangars, I have no idea of their occupancy levels.

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 18): As for the occupancy levels at the SNN hangars, just from what I've heard and observed from my visits there. Air Atlanta always seems to have several aircraft both in the hangar and parked on the apron just in front of it so presumably, their occupancy level is pretty good and that's what made them an atttactive buy for Transaero. There was an article in local media a while back that mentioned Shannon Aerospace were on a reduced working week so one can deduce their occupancy level is not great. I have no idea of whether or not things have improved lately but there always seems to be at least one aircraft parked beside the hangar at any time so presumeably they must be getting some business. As for the other hangars, I have no idea of their occupancy levels.

Aircraft stored around the airport are also under the care of the different maintenance companies.

From the discussions on the previous thread about Gold Circle, I read this interesting article which fits nicely into the discussion. I too work for a very customer focussed company, and it is defiantly bringing customers back to our company! We are cost cutting, but its in areas that would not be evident to the customers... As everyone has mentioned, its very hard to earn Gold Circle points. I use a Credit Card a lot, and i would certainly avail of one if it was available here. Also some of my mates in the UK do surveys, and they get FFP just for completing the survey. I suppose that's how the airlines make money out of it... Anyway here is the article...

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/strat.../26870-crm-becomes-more-of-a-conce

Also I had Vincent Brown on in the background there. He reads the papers headlines for the next day. Apparently EY has bought some shares in EY, and EI have said they have being talking with EY about codesharing etc...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...tpage/2012/0501/1224315408744.html

Looks confirmed.
http://www.independent.ie/business/i...7-stake-in-aer-lingus-3096254.html

I wonder what EY is really interested in EI for and what the long term plan is?

On the radio this morning, they mentioned EY eventually taking the full Government stake in the company.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 21): I wonder what EY is really interested in EI for and what the long term plan is?

My thought is that becuase EI is an EU carrier it has unlimited access to all EU points, to the US (actually any point they wish, with pre clearence, I suppose) and into Canada as well. EY has to share rights with EK and many countries are slow to open up their bi-laterals with the UAE, Canada is notoriously refusing to open assess to Toronto. Not sure what the US rights are like. EI could also be useful for getting into smaller UK cities that EIR serves. AB in Germany serves that purpose for EY.

Quoting f1eddie (Reply 20): I too work for a very customer focussed company, and it is defiantly bringing customers back to our company! We are cost cutting, but its in areas that would not be evident to the customers... As everyone has mentioned, its very hard to earn Gold Circle points. I use a Credit Card a lot, and i would certainly avail of one if it was available here. Also some of my mates in the UK do surveys, and they get FFP just for completing the survey. I suppose that's how the airlines make money out of it...

I think the main thing is the spending opportunities. EI's are limited, at present. To me FFP's, customer interaction and rewards just does not seem like a high priority for EI. Their only significant partnership is with Bank of Ireland with the Business Gold Visa (GC lounge access only) and Appleby Jewellers, frankly woeful.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 21): I wonder what EY is really interested in EI for and what the long term plan is?

As I mentioned late on the last thread: James Hogan openly confirmed the intent towards an acquisition of a large shareholding in Aer Lingus on a Bloomberg interview late last week.

My own, merely personal, opinion is that if a considerable acquisition or other form of arrangement is successful - we could quite likely see the redeployment of some Aer Lingus A330s from routes that are currently marginal to alternative routes under this initiative.

EIBusiness

Quoting EIBusiness (Reply 23): we could quite likely see the redeployment of some Aer Lingus A330s from routes that are currently marginal to alternative routes under this initiative.

I think I know the routes you speak of, shall we say those routes that are less than daily, with weak front cabin demand and notoriously seasonal could be on the block? That said I think MAD-IAD may be one of those, it depends how long the agreement with UA continues, it's bookable byond 27th OCT.

This is a very momentous moment for Aer Lingus, and could be the start of a new era for the company. EI and AB share a similar business model in some respects, so lots of synergies between the companies.

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 25): This is a very momentous moment for Aer Lingus, and could be the start of a new era for the company. EI and AB share a similar business model in some respects, so lots of synergies between the companies.

I agree this is the best thing that could happen to EI . Time will tell.

I notice in the Metro Herald, the EI ad today, it has a team Ireland logo! With a nice shamrock! Love it!

Kevin

EK are at it again  

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 22): Canada is notoriously refusing to open assess to Toronto.

interesting that a government would be involved in a such a personal decision...

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 21): I wonder what EY is really interested in EI for and what the long term plan is?

No doubt that EY has some larger plan here than just investing in EI and remaining a silent partner. Obviously, one can look to AB to get an idea of what might be ahead. I do think that people in EI should expect some changes (not all positive from their perspective) if EY does purchase the gov't stake. I agree that EY will probably look to re-deploy some EI assets while sharing others in an effort to maximize their investment.

Regardless, an interesting time for the airline.

Quoting Reply 29):

Took me a while to get the joke there...the penny has dropped!

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 30):

Glad I wasnt the only one who chuckled  

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 25): This is a very momentous moment for Aer Lingus, and could be the start of a new era for the company. EI and AB share a similar business model in some respects, so lots of synergies between the companies.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 22): My thought is that becuase EI is an EU carrier it has unlimited access to all EU points, to the US ........ and into Canada as well.........AB in Germany serves that purpose for EY.

This to me looks like good postioning by EY. The have 2 partners in Europe who feed into their own metal which carries pax onto the wider EY network. Definitely gives them more access than direct flight can.


A few posters have used the term "intersting times"...my thought would be 'wasn't that a Chinese curse?' This may seem like a very good move for EI but longterm it could signal huge changes in the EI that we discuss on this forum. EI have made massive cost savings and streamlining over the last 2 years, they are now a leaner more profitable company than we have seen for years (forever perhaps?) but as the lesser partner in such a deal they will be beholden to the larger partner. AB were given E200M+ in aid, I doubt EI would require this injection but we could see an overall investment in hard product with such a partnership. AB/EY/EI all like to buy Airbus!

Returned from DUB a little while ago.

At 12:48, the new EK visitor pushed back from T2. The push back crew certainly seemed to be taking great care with the push!

I was parked up at the 28 end, and generally, aircraft are well airborne from 10 by that point: the 773 however had just rotated, using about 3/4 of the available tarmac...an impressive first departure.

You had to feel some pity for Etihad as their "light twin" rolled in on the afternoon arrival from AUH!

Good to see EK flying 77Ws to DUB, although pity that the weather was pretty lousy for the first arrival. Today's flight incidentally, was operated by A6-EBC.

---------------------------------------------------------------

FR couldn't resist the temptation to throw its tuppence into the ring:

http://www.investegate.co.uk/Article.aspx?id=201205011122214705C

Reading between the lines, I think the translation is "For the love of God, someone - ANYONE - buy our shareholding in Aer Lingus, PLEASE!"

---------------------------------------------------------------

Just one question I have: where does the shareholding acquired by EY come from? Was it from the govt's shareholding, or from private shareholders?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The game is becoming very interesting; there was a rumour some time ago that EI was looking to operate a YYZ service from next Summer and to my mind, this deal only strengthens that possibility, the Canadian ban on further rights to UAE carriers being part of that. We might even see EI fly further afield in Canada, starting with YUL.

I don't see EI flying to AUH; when you have one airline based on DUB and another in AUH, operating a joint schedule on the same route, the scheduling is liable to get very messy indeed.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 34): The game is becoming very interesting.......................the Canadian ban on further rights to UAE carriers being part of that..................I don't see EI flying to AUH..................

I think you have the same idea as myself. EY can use EI (and AB) to access markets/routes that they cannot or will not access using their own aircraft.

In relation to the FR statement: "If this is sold to Etihad or to a financial investor, then it is inevitable that Aer Lingus will be broken up and some or all of its Heathrow slots lost to Ireland."
Now they want to protect the LHR slots for Ireland, but surely Mick LHR is a High Fares airport that is not deserving of the services of FR (The Worlds favourite airline*) and indeed with the world beating routes network offered by FR from Ireland, the Irish people do not even need to travel to such a Third rate airport disguised as a shopping centre!!!

Timmy Dooley (TD) was first out of the traps to condemn EI over the maintenance transfer proposal. His four minutes of wisdom can be heard here:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0501/eti...r-3-stake-in-aer-lingus.html#audio

Timmy believes that the plan to centralise maintenance operations is a great idea - except this ought to be in Shannon, rather than Dublin.

"If it's good enough for the Russians, then it's good enough for Aer Lingus". Quote of the week.

Quoting EI320 (Reply 36): Timmy Dooley (TD) was first out of the traps to condemn EI over the maintenance transfer proposal. His four minutes of wisdom can be heard here: http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0501/eti...r-3-stake-in-aer-lingus.html#audio Timmy believes that the plan to centralise maintenance operations is a great idea - except this ought to be in Shannon, rather than Dublin. "If it's good enough for the Russians, then it's good enough for Aer Lingus". Quote of the week.

Ah, good old Timmy ... I was in UCD at the same time as him; he was Secretary of the Kevin Barry Cumann (the UCD branch of Ogra FF); we had some interesting discussions about the Shannon stopover!

Quoting EI320 (Reply 36): "If it's good enough for the Russians, then it's good enough for Aer Lingus". Quote of the week.

Fair play to him! Seriously though, if Transaero are serious about expanding the former Air Atlanta operations at SNN, then no doubt they'll be taking over the hanger currently occupied by Aer Lingus in the not too distant future. I was actually amazed when this first came up that EI had any significant maintainance operations left at SNN. I'd presumed this had been moved to DUB a long time ago and that EI only kept the bare skeleton maintainance staff at SNN just in case an aircraft went tech.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 22): Bank of Ireland with the Business Gold Visa (GC lounge access only)

Mine runs out in June and there won't be another one. I will mourn the loss of my free lounge access. That said, I've had it since 2008, so I've had a good run!

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 35): In relation to the FR statement: "If this is sold to Etihad or to a financial investor, then it is inevitable that Aer Lingus will be broken up and some or all of its Heathrow slots lost to Ireland." Now they want to protect the LHR slots for Ireland,

Not necessarily, the Government could make it a stipulation of the sale that the LHR slots remain tied to Aer Lingus and must be used for the DUB-LHR route.

I don't see why that would happen though - EI is the only carrier on DUB-LHR (once BMI is gone and if BA don't keep flying it) which means they make a lot of money on it.

It really is a shame that Aer Lingus wasn't sold to Ryanair. It will be a bit sad if controlling interest in the airline goes outside of Ireland. That said, what is the bilaterial situation? If Aer Lingus becomes majority foreign owned, does that not mean it is no longer an Irish carrier and that would have an effect on the bilaterial route agreements? I know that's the whole reason Qantas has to remain 51% Australian owned...

Still, Etihad only has 30% or so of Air Berlin so maybe it won't be a full majority. They might just take a small stake.

Quoting EI320 (Reply 36): "If it's good enough for the Russians, then it's good enough for Aer Lingus". Quote of the week.

He want's to ensure that the ''voice of reason'' is heard in the Aer Lingus boardroom. It's obvious that he's well informed when a general term such as fiduciary duties of directors is mentioned less than two minutes into the interview...

Really and truly - it's quite sad that there is this continued, incessant, ingrained belief clearly amongst a sizeable number of people that State driven free handouts that were so common in the past to non performing - 'disadvantaged' regions should continue.

It's quite simple and SNN along with its political representatives needs to accept this: Aer Lingus is no longer a state run company, it is no longer obliged to incur losses merely for the sake of keeping a relatively small region of the country satisfied - the State has no right to intervene in the company and force its hand in this regard.

You know what frightens me most? That this is what we have for ''political opposition'' in a country that's debt ridden to toxic levels. If it weren't so serious it would be laughable.

Apparently the cost of flying aircraft between ''DUB'' and ''SNN'' is minimal. By that same token, surely then there is no need for any incremental TD expenses or allowances for travelling to/from Clare? After all, the distance between Dublin and there is - ''only minimal''.

EIBusiness

Quoting EIBUsiness (Reply 40): Apparently the cost of flying aircraft between ''DUB'' and ''SNN'' is minimal. By that same token, surely then there is no need for any incremental TD expenses or allowances for travelling to/from Clare? After all, the distance between Dublin and there is - ''only minimal''.

oh that might hurt a few politicians.........where's Ivor when you need him?

Quoting EI320 (Reply 36): "If it's good enough for the Russians, then it's good enough for Aer Lingus"

I think we may see this golden nugget of thought rolled out many times in the future.
Wonderful soundbite!!

Quoting EIBUsiness (Reply 40): Apparently the cost of flying aircraft between ''DUB'' and ''SNN'' is minimal. By that same token, surely then there is no need for any incremental TD expenses or allowances for travelling to/from Clare? After all, the distance between Dublin and there is - ''only minimal''.

I think our former Tainiste, Mr. Dick Spring would be a great man to ask about the cost of flying jets across the country after all those trips he took on the government jet flying from DUB to the airport he built in his own constituency to accomodate such a personal convenience!  

Quoting EIBUsiness (Reply 40): Really and truly - it's quite sad that there is this continued, incessant, ingrained belief clearly amongst a sizeable number of people that State driven free handouts that were so common in the past to non performing - 'disadvantaged' regions should continue.

Not intending to spark another massive row here and I'm not making this point about the mid west (which I will be the first to admit nowadays has excellent infrastructure in terms of road, rail, sea and air access and does not need state subsidies) but state subsidies to the so called "disadvantaged" parts of the country pales in comparison to the value of the massive tax incentives that were handed out willie-nilly to the property sector (much of it in what one would consider to be the more privilaged parts of the country) which played no small part growing the bubble that has resulted in the debt mountain that we're now left with.

[Edited 2012-05-01 12:51:58]

[Edited 2012-05-01 12:52:42]

Perhaps Transaero will be interested in recruiting a few engineers.

Quoting EIBUsiness (Reply 40): It's quite simple and SNN along with its political representatives needs to accept this: Aer Lingus is no longer a state run company, it is no longer obliged to incur losses merely for the sake of keeping a relatively small region of the country satisfied - the State has no right to intervene in the company and force its hand in this regard.

The problem is that the Gov't still owns 25% of the company. While not "state-owned", the airline is still partially owned by the taxpayer and some people will still presume that gov't's remaining shareholding can be used by "the people" to persuade the company's mgmt one way or the other in a particular commercial decision.

A partial government shareholding in a private company invariably only works when that partial shareholding is built up from a starting point of zero, rather than reduced down from 100%. That way there are no preconceived notions or precedents to confuse the marketplace about what the govt' will and won't do.

The State is better off to eliminate the appearance of *possible* undue influence and divest itself. It's a no-win situation for the government. Not enough ownership to actually control the company, and enough ownership to still make some people believe that they do.

The government is a unique actor in any society or marketplace, and as such can't expect to receive the same treatment from the general public that other investors (such as pension funds or private investors) receive.

I agree with your statement, but it has to recognized that the government's continued presence on the roll of shareholders coupled with its history of making politically motivated decisions regarding that company only invites such reactions from sections of the public. It's neither fair nor financially logical, but it's reality.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 34): Just one question I have: where does the shareholding acquired by EY come from? Was it from the govt's shareholding, or from private shareholders?

Without researching it I'd imagine the shares were purchased from the publicly traded share volume over a course of time. I imagine they were required to publicly announce their share ownership due to recently surpassing a specific percentage ownership threshold?

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 32): A few posters have used the term "intersting times"...my thought would be 'wasn't that a Chinese curse?' This may seem like a very good move for EI but longterm it could signal huge changes in the EI that we discuss on this forum. EI have made massive cost savings and streamlining over the last 2 years, they are now a leaner more profitable company than we have seen for years (forever perhaps?) but as the lesser partner in such a deal they will be beholden to the larger partner. AB were given E200M+ in aid, I doubt EI would require this injection but we could see an overall investment in hard product with such a partnership. AB/EY/EI all like to buy Airbus!

Indeed. This portends a major turning point for EI if EY does in fact come to purchase the gov't's shareholding. While successful in getting to their current position, the long term outlook for Aer Lingus will be cloudy at best forging ahead as an independent, unaligned airline with a modest route network and a relatively small home market, a home market which is still enduring the sharpest recessionary period in nearly 8 decades which will linger for several years more.

This could be the play that the airline mgmt sees as the best bet to take the airline's compete level up a notch. It's a way to circumvent some of the present shortcomings, hopefully grow the airline through cooperative efforts with EY, and just plain try something new.

At the very least this should continue to stimulate the recent upward movement in EI share price, which, considering its historical downward track since flotation, is a good thing.

[Edited 2012-05-01 16:27:33]

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 39): the Government could make it a stipulation of the sale that the LHR slots remain tied to Aer Lingus and must be used for the DUB-LHR route.

They cant do that legally, the government do not own the slots.

Quoting dstc47 (Reply 45): Indeed. This portends a major turning point for EI if EY does in fact come to purchase the gov't's shareholding.

Quoting dstc47 (Reply 45): This could be the play that the airline mgmt sees as the best bet to take the airline's compete level up a notch. It's a way to circumvent some of the present shortcomings, hopefully grow the airline through cooperative efforts with EY, and just plain try something new.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but it a 25% stake is not enough for the government to influence the management of the company, then how's it going to be enough for EY to influence the management of the company? Won't EY have to acquire at least 51% of the company in order to do this which will unboubtadly have to involve coaxing Ryanair to part with at least some it its holding?

I'd prefer to see EY take over EI as opposed to the like of BA or KL/AF who would probably just turn EI into a feeder airline for their own operations. EY are undoubtadly looking at EI and DUB as a part of a plan to develope services to North and South America which could potentially open up all sorts of wonderful new route operations.

On the new Emirates 777 coming into Dublin, what seats have they now in Buisness and First? Fully flat in J? Suites in F, as I think on the a330 they had on this route, even F was lie flat?

Aer Lingus 'will be broken up if Etihad buys government stake'

RYANAIR boss Michael O'Leary said yesterday that Aer Lingus will be "broken up" if Etihad or a financial investor buys the Government's 25.1pc stake in the former state-owned airline.

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...buys-government-stake-3096840.html

( Nice pic along with the article though )