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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 10:00 am

Quoting The Moscow Times:
Transaero is now considering routing its U.S.-bound flights from Russia through the Shannon airport, where passengers could clear U.S. customs and avoid potentially avoid long lines upon arrival in the United States

Full article: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...nonstop-to-los-angeles/457826.html

---

Delta Flight Diverts to Shannon

A US-bound passenger jet was forced to turn around over the North Atlantic and divert to Shannon Airport after a 'smokey odour' was detected on board.

Delta Airlines flight DL-19 was travelling from London's Heathrow airport to Detroit in Michigan at the time of the incident.

The Boeing 767-300 departed London at 9.05am yesterday (Tuesday) and was over two hours into it's eight-hour journey when the crew contacted air traffic controllers and requested permission to turn around and divert to Shannon.
http://www.clareherald.com/news/52-l...lta-flight-diverts-to-shannon.html

On a related note, DL has resumed its seasonal daily flights between SNN and JFK today.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 10:05 am

Quoting TravelGuy (Reply 44):
It's a no-win situation for the government. Not enough ownership to actually control the company, and enough ownership to still make some people believe that they do.

Good succint analysis of the govt's position.

Quoting dstc47 (Reply 45):
They cant do that legally, the government do not own the slots.

But couldn't some stipulation be included in any deal that sells off the govt 25%. Perhaps the govt allows the pension deficit to be seperated from the airline while a certain number of LHR slots are ring-fenced as dedicated to Ireland-LHR usage? We don't know what deal EY (or anyone else) would accept to buy out the Irish govt.

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 46):
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but it a 25% stake is not enough for the government to influence the management of the company, then how's it going to be enough for EY to influence the management of the company? Won't EY have to acquire at least 51% of the company in order to do this which will unboubtadly have to involve coaxing Ryanair to part with at least some it its holding?

I Govt have not insisted on having a presence on the EI board. I am sure that EY have done so with AB, and would do so with EI is things fo that far. FR I believe demanded board presence but EI were able to prevent this by using the confidential information being given to a competitor argument.
51% allows CONTROL but INFLUENCE is dependant on the standing of the share holder rather than the actual share %. To use the AB example, the AB board would do well to heed the EY rep on the board as EY gifted AB a cash injection of >E200M.
 
Clydenairways
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 10:17 am

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 51):
But couldn't some stipulation be included in any deal that sells off the govt 25%. Perhaps the govt allows the pension deficit to be seperated from the airline while a certain number of LHR slots are ring-fenced as dedicated to Ireland-LHR usage? We don't know what deal EY (or anyone else) would accept to buy out the Irish govt.

Are LHR slots really that important to the country these days? You can get anywhere you want to go through AMS,FRA,CDG and now DXB.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 10:41 am

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 52):
Are LHR slots really that important to the country these days? You can get anywhere you want to go through AMS,FRA,CDG and now DXB.

They may not be as important to Dublin, but to Cork and Shannon they are. ORK only has AMS and LHR for onward connectivity and SNN only has LHR.
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 11:10 am

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 52):
Are LHR slots really that important to the country these days?

I believe they are . There will always be the need to protect these slots. The LHR link is more important than Irish Domestic links IMHO. London will always be the most important link to the Republic of Ireland.
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 11:26 am

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 52):
51% allows CONTROL but INFLUENCE is dependant on the standing of the share holder rather than the actual share %. To use the AB example, the AB board would do well to heed the EY rep on the board as EY gifted AB a cash injection of >E200M.

I see your point but the fact is that EI are at least modestly profitable and still have a decent cash reserve. AB on the other hand were up to their eyes in it and would most likely have gone under if EY hadn't injected cash. Surely EY would require a larger shareholding in EI than 25% if they are to gain the influence they require. Given the current shareholder makeup at EI, I would see it very hard for EY to gain any sort of a significant influence in EI without convincing FR or the ESOT to relinquish some of their shareholding or at very lest, organise a voting pact with one or the other of those shareholders.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
Clydenairways
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 12:12 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 53):
They may not be as important to Dublin, but to Cork and Shannon they are. ORK only has AMS and LHR for onward connectivity and SNN only has LHR.

Yes but there will be flights to these hubs from ORK and SNN in the event of a reduction in LHR connections. A big factor why they failed before was that people from SNN drove to DUB to fly to LHR rather than take the direct CDG connection from SNN.
With a reduction also in flights also from Dublin to LHR, this won't be an alternative option like it was before.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 54):
I believe they are . There will always be the need to protect these slots. The LHR link is more important than Irish Domestic links IMHO. London will always be the most important link to the Republic of Ireland.

I understand that London will always be the number one link from Ireland. But we have to separate connecting traffic versus origin traffic to asess the need. And i'm not saying that all the slots should be sold. There are lots of other London airports that can serve a bigger chunk the point to point market.

I'm not saying a total drop of LHR services, but i am saying we can lower our dependency on LHR with marginal impact if we really need to.

My view is that LHR is more of a mindset problem than a genuine access issue.
 
bx737
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 12:13 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 55):

Tony, the points you made are good, but just a point of clarification the ESOT has been more or less wound up. The shares held by the ESOT were distributed amongst the staff in December 2010. It will be interesting to see what the plans of EY are for EI.
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 3:49 pm

Quoting bx737 (Reply 57):
Tony, the points you made are good, but just a point of clarification the ESOT has been more or less wound up. The shares held by the ESOT were distributed amongst the staff in December 2010. It will be interesting to see what the plans of EY are for EI.

I see. It was just that I remember that ESOT's holding combined with the government's holding hampered FR's original takeover bid because by the time FR had accumulated 20% or so of EI, they had pretty much bought up all the stock that was available so they couldn't realistically take a majority holding in the company without ESOT or the government selling out to them. From memory, ESOT originally controlled about 10% of the airline which combined with FR's 25% odd stake and the government's 25% stake meant there was even less stock for a fourth party like EY to buy. I guess that with the 10% or so that used to be controlled by ESOT now more freely available and if it they had the 25% government stake in hand, EY could easily accumulate a 40 to 50% share of EI which should be more than enough to excercise influence over the company.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
ei912
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 6:20 pm

Quoting irishbean (Reply 48):
what seats have they now in Buisness and First? Fully flat in J? Suites in F, as I think on the a330 they had on this route, even F was lie flat?

F on the 332 was fully flat, however 6 abreast. 77W now has private suites (4 abreast) in F and angled flat seats in J (7 abreast) with next generation seats in Y. All in all, compared to the 332, it's a much superior product, which now better matches the impressive brand image EK has created here.

Quoting bx737 (Reply 57):
It will be interesting to see what the plans of EY are for EI.

Indeed it will be interesting to see what plans unfold, as I can't see huge potential in an EI/EY alliance. EI feeding EY flights will not provide major gains as it almost always involves back-tracking for the pax and although EI are thankfully profitable on the transatlantic front, they are by no means a big player in this market. As it stands, increased access to BOS is perhaps the biggest gain EY will get from EI, however they already connect there via JFK/ORD and AA. There is of course, potential for EI to expand to new destinations i.e. YYZ/YUL, return to SFO/LAX, however with fuel prices as they are, EI would be rightly cautious before rushing into new markets because of EY. I just don't see what EY will gain that they don't already have with AA. On the idea of EI starting to AUH, again it would be a potentially risky move with the huge competition EK brings to the situation. (Just my first    to add to a.net!)
 
oneworld77
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting EI912 (Reply 59):

Dont fall for the PR. Middle seat of 3 on a last minute full J ticket is not value for money. Indeed, I've experienced better on BA WTP than on EK J.

Having to step OVER anyone in a non window seat for that price is an appalling product.
Flown - EI;BA;RE;FR;WW;TW;TS;US;JP;JT;AT;QF;JQ;VB;NC;TR;D7;AA;IB;AF;SN;LX;SR;LH;AY;CX;CP;9K;9W;IX;AI;IC;EK;EY;GF;QR;BE;N
 
ei912
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 7:37 pm

Agreed oneworld77, but even the middle EK J seat on 77W is still a step up from the 332!
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 8:29 pm

So it looks like the only remaining 'bloc' of EI shares are the Govt 25%, the Denis O'Brien 3%, the pilots 3% and the the FR 29%. So EY can could perhaps buy the Govt share and some of the FR shares to get to >40% while still remaining under EU 'ownership'. (They may not need to get 49%)

Quoting EI912 (Reply 59):
EI912 From , joined Dec 1969,

Thats a bit odd!!
 
EIDL
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Wed May 02, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 62):

Quoting EI912 (Reply 59):
EI912 From , joined Dec 1969,

Thats a bit odd!!

Seems to be what shows when a member is very new, noticed it on my own first post but I've got the real date now.
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting EI912 (Reply 61):
Agreed oneworld77, but even the middle EK J seat on 77W is still a step up from the 332!

Id certainly take the 77W over a 332 even in a middle seat in J .
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 8:03 am

Aer Lingus narrows first quarter operating loss

Quote:
Aer Lingus has recorded an operating loss of %u20AC36.1m for the first three months of the year and upgraded its 2012 operating profit forecast.

It said it now expected to match last year's %u20AC49m as higher revenue per passenger mile compensated for growing costs.
The airline had warned in February that fuel costs would cause profits to fall in 2012 from 2011 levels.
It noted losses were almost a third lower than in the same period in 2011 and said that the business is usually loss making in the quarter.

The airline had reported operating losses of %u20AC53.7m the same time last year.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0503/aer...-first-quarter-operating-loss.html

http://corporate.aerlingus.com/media...pdfs/corporate/IMSFinal_030512.pdf

- Aer Lingus very encouraged by long haul performance and is examining opportunities to add capacity on the North Atlantic, any guesses for new routes?

- Expand and deepen its portfolio of bilateral relationships this year with alliance & non-alliance carriers.

- Already mentions Eithad as a non-alliance partner airline like JetBlue.

- Short haul generally performed ahead of previous year but some short haul route groups were weaker than expected.

Shamrock350
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 8:57 am

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 65):
Aer Lingus very encouraged by long haul performance and is examining opportunities to add capacity on the North Atlantic, any guesses for new routes?

That's great to hear but where will they get the aircraft to add longhaul flights? I notice DUB-MCO is going back to 3 weekly for Winter 2012/13. Did it always drop back to 2 weekly for the summer season?

-

A Delta Air Lines Boeing 767-300ER diverted to Shannon this morning. It was performing the latter leg of flight DL80 (MCO-ATL-BRU). It was on the ground for over two hours before continuing to Brussels. Presumably a medical diversion.
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 9:56 am

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 66):
- Aer Lingus very encouraged by long haul performance and is examining opportunities to add capacity on the North Atlantic, any guesses for new routes?

I would presume a West Coast US route to SFO or LAX would fill an abvous gap in the route network.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 11:14 am

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/48b9290e.jpg


From the 10th May onwards the GDS integration process will be commenced.

DUB-LHR and BHD-LHR flights will be given a primary BA flight number and then during a phased process BA will take over the BMI inventory. The process will generate a cancellation in GDS systems of the BMI flight and then a confirmed segment BA flight. All tickets will have to be re issued by airlines/agents etc...
 
ein105
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 11:16 am

MCO never dropped to 2 weekly before. It was 4 weekly for one summer in 2008 I think. Hopefully we see a new route to Canada or a return to the West Coast
 
EIBoston
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 3:46 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 67):
I would presume a West Coast US route to SFO or LAX would fill an abvous gap in the route network.

Seems obvious enough Tony, but I always thought the biggest issue they had with those routes before was while loads were ok, the yield was not great. Any yield seems to be their target on the t/a ops these days.
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 4:03 pm

I think it will be YYZ first and then, if it's deemed viable, either LAX or SFO.

Some good news for Waterfod Airport: Flybe is making its BHX-WAT services year round - Winter service will be 4 times weekly.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 4:03 pm

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 70):
Seems obvious enough Tony, but I always thought the biggest issue they had with those routes before was while loads were ok, the yield was not great. Any yield seems to be their target on the t/a ops these days.

They also cited the rising cost of aviation fuel when they dropped the routes due to their length. The price hasn't exactly come down much...
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 70):
but I always thought the biggest issue they had with those routes before was while loads were ok,
Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 72):
They also cited the rising cost of aviation fuel when they dropped the routes due to their length. The price hasn't exactly come down much.

Would an upgrade of the J class product would permit a rise in average yield?
With a better J class product they could siphon off more higher yield pax from West Coast route ex-LHR etc.
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 5:06 pm

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 70):
Seems obvious enough Tony, but I always thought the biggest issue they had with those routes before was while loads were ok, the yield was not great. Any yield seems to be their target on the t/a ops these days.
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 73):

Would an upgrade of the J class product would permit a rise in average yield?
With a better J class product they could siphon off more higher yield pax from West Coast route ex-LHR etc.

The business community has been calling out for a link to SFO for a long time now so perhaps fitting out a few of the A330-200s with a high quality business class product and maybe taking in a few extra rows of economy class seats could get the yields up enough to make such a service viable. Also, EI weren't codeshare partners wih UA at the time and with SFO being a major UA hub, there might be that extra bit of connecting traffic that wasn't there before. If EI have any intention of operating to West coast USA, then they'd better do it soon. Otherwise, I could see UA making a move on DUB-SFO. We've already seen it happen on IAD-DUB.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
EIBoston
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 74):
The business community has been calling out for a link to SFO for a long time now so perhaps fitting out a few of the A330-200s with a high quality business class product and maybe taking in a few extra rows of economy class seats could get the yields up enough to make such a service viable. Also, EI weren't codeshare partners wih UA at the time and with SFO being a major UA hub, there might be that extra bit of connecting traffic that wasn't there before. If EI have any intention of operating to West coast USA, then they'd better do it soon. Otherwise, I could see UA making a move on DUB-SFO. We've already seen it happen on IAD-DUB.

Well hopefully the same people that have been crying out for this service will put some bums on seats then(preferably J ones!) I am not sure EI would ever go down the route of have different configs on their A332's. mind you they only have 3, so they could just change them all 
 
Cipango
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 5:31 pm

The EK flights are arriving extremely early since the 77W began.

It arrived a little over an hour early today and similar the last few days. Anyone know why?
Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
 
Phen
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 5:38 pm

Could EI's newer A333s reach LAX or SFO? Or would it require payload restrictions? I assume 10-28 is of sufficient length for a full load takeoff to west coast USA?
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 5:42 pm

Quoting Phen (Reply 77):
Could EI's newer A333s reach LAX or SFO? Or would it require payload restrictions? I assume 10-28 is of sufficient length for a full load takeoff to west coast USA?

No problem; even the old A333s (with 215t MTOW) could have made it, albeit with "limited catering", but with an extra 15-18t on the MTOW (around 3h of fuel for a 333), it should not be a problem.
 
ein105
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 71):
I think it will be YYZ first and then, if it's deemed viable, either LAX or SFO.

Merrion Stockbrokers commented on RTE news that EI management had indicated that they were looking at the East Coast and Canada. I'd say YYZ would be the most likely for Canada, and maybe PHL for the East Coast?

They also said that they were looking at European expansion, and were interested in UK domestic routes if they can get the LHR slots.

Any T/A expansion will have to come from the IAD aircraft, and European expansion would have neccesitate additonal 319's/320's.

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 74):
The business community has been calling out for a link to SFO for a long time now so perhaps fitting out a few of the A330-200s with a high quality business class product and maybe taking in a few extra rows of economy class seats could get the yields up enough to make such a service viable. Also, EI weren't codeshare partners wih UA at the time and with SFO being a major UA hub, there might be that extra bit of connecting traffic that wasn't there before. If EI have any intention of operating to West coast USA, then they'd better do it soon. Otherwise, I could see UA making a move on DUB-SFO. We've already seen it happen on IAD-DUB

I definately think EI are in a much better position to capture higher yielding passengers to make a West Coast route. A fully flat J cabin would help. SFO departed DUB very early, so a mid morning/afternoon departure would help attract UK and European passengers. UA codeshares to the likes of LAX, LAS and SEA also wouldnt hurt. I doubt that UA would launch West Coast-Dublin as they have always been reluctant to fly such long, thin sectors. With flights to their hubs in IAD and DUB, they have the market covered pretty well.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 74):
Also, EI weren't codeshare partners wih UA at the time and with SFO being a major UA hub

I believe they were. They implemented the UA codeshare in 2008. The SFO route was dropped towards the end of 2009.

Quoting ein105 (Reply 79):
Merrion Stockbrokers commented on RTE news that EI management had indicated that they were looking at the East Coast and Canada. I'd say YYZ would be the most likely for Canada, and maybe PHL for the East Coast?

What about Newark? There might be a gap left after UA pulled the second daily flight. Also a late morning/afternoon flight could feed into UA's network.
 
EI320
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 6:06 pm

EI have said that they're looking at East Coast USA, not the West Coast.

The chances of SFO or LAX returning in 2013 remain slim IMHO. EI seem happy to feed passengers into ORD and let UA take them for there.

EI have also said today that they're looking to acquire a number of BD's LHR slots with a view to increasing flights between Ireland and Heathrow and developing UK domestic routes ex LHR.



Domestic routes ex LHR - a perfect way to burn cash. Hopefully sense will prevail on this one.
 
ein105
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 6:27 pm

Quoting Phen (Reply 77):
Could EI's newer A333s reach LAX or SFO? Or would it require payload restrictions? I assume 10-28 is of sufficient length for a full load takeoff to west coast USA?

All of EI's 330-300's are the 'newer' ones, with the oldest having been delivered in 2007.

Quoting EI320 (Reply 81):
Domestic routes ex LHR - a perfect way to burn cash. Hopefully sense will prevail on this one

They have said they were looking at domestic UK routes; they ''look'' at a lot of things, and never push ahead with the plans. Mueller has been conservative with growth and has taken very few risks. Launching UK domestic routes, is similar to launching West Coast or a new East Coast route; it will only happen if they know they will make money

[Edited 2012-05-03 11:31:07]
 
ein105
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 80):

What about Newark? There might be a gap left after UA pulled the second daily flight. Also a late morning/afternoon flight could feed into UA's network

A midday departure would work well, inbetween the 105 and 109. Like most carriers, UA doesnt like to have their aircraft sit around outstations for long periods of time, so UA never operated a late departure from DUB. There was only 2 hours between CO23 and CO127, which didnt give passengers a huge choice. An EI departure, between 12 and 2 could fill that gap
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 6:46 pm

Bad news for Belfast but not unexpected .

Bmibaby will cease to operate all flights to and from from Belfast from 11 June, it has been announced.

The company, which transfered to the ownership of International Airlines Group (IAG) last month, has entered talks with unions about its future.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17940862
 
styles9002
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 7:01 pm

I did recall hearing a few US West Coast people with business interests in Ireland asking about EI launching a non-stop service from SFO again but in reality I doubt that there is much going to happen any time soon.

To be honest, I doubt EI can really earn any premium corporate traffic without a complete overhaul of the frequent flier program. I think people are underestimating how important it is to high yield corporate travel. The Gold Circle program is pathetic compared to some of the programs the US carriers offer. AA might have a mediocre hard product and on-board service but AAdvantage is outstanding for elite level fliers and offers so much that it would be very challenging to get people to switch.

Even discount carriers like US Airways (with a customer-last philosophy) offer great FF programs to their elites and look after them. Even if and when EI does relaunch Gold Circle as a proper FF program to compete with the US carriers, I doubt they will be able to grab much share for business corporate in the USA as they just don't serve a large enough area in Europe. Why would a businessman purchase J class USA-DUB and then fly in economy onward to UK/Europe? It doesn't make sense to me. If EI is serious about (and maybe with EY getting involved) they would have to offer biz class on Ireland-Europe routes.
It is what it is.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2537
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 73):
With a better J class product they could siphon off more higher yield pax from West Coast route ex-LHR etc.

The product itself is actually quite good. IME it is on par with the current OS and old LX A340 product, for example. A few inches pitch so the seat goes fully flat, fresh seats covers and bulkhead coverings would do a lot for the product. I don't think EI need an "all new" business class, just a substantial refresh and a return to three cabin crew in the front cabin.

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 74):
The business community has been calling out for a link to SFO for a long time now so perhaps fitting out a few of the A330-200s with a high quality business class product and maybe taking in a few extra rows of economy class seats could get the yields up enough to make such a service viable.

They were provided with the service in the boom years of the late 00's and EI filed to make money on it. I think a lot of the problem was that the LAX service was established, but had to be reduced to give SFO a chance, this created problems for the LAX service which sent it into terminal decline, combined with rising fuel costs ment SFO didn't have much breathing room, even with LAX cut entirely.

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 74):
Also, EI weren't codeshare partners wih UA at the time and with SFO being a major UA hub, there might be that extra bit of connecting traffic that wasn't there before.

The problem is that if coming from Europe SFO is not a great hub for connecting to anywhere other than Hawaii, geographically. Most routes require a lot of back-tracking. Additionally from an operational standpoint SFO is less than ideal, with fog and closely spaced parallel runways.

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 74):
If EI have any intention of operating to West coast USA, then they'd better do it soon. Otherwise, I could see UA making a move on DUB-SFO. We've already seen it happen on IAD-DUB.

I doubt it. UA serves a grand total of two European destinations from SFO; LHR and FRA. FRA is, of course, a massive STAR hub. I think IAD-DUB is a different case, in that UA is encouraging as much connecting traffic as possible over IAD as a reliever for EWR and there is a bonus of a new point on the map from the IAD hub. Im not sure the volumes are there for DUB- West Coast.

Quoting ein105 (Reply 79):
Merrion Stockbrokers commented on RTE news that EI management had indicated that they were looking at the East Coast and Canada. I'd say PHL for the East Coast?

Im not sure PHL could sustain both US and EI. It's an outside chance, but maybe IAD-MAD might become IAD-DUB instead of the UA 757? Other East Cost cities would include MIA (good for cruises and penetrating into South America) anything beyond that seems extremely unlikely?

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 80):
What about Newark? There might be a gap left after UA pulled the second daily flight. Also a late morning/afternoon flight could feed into UA's network.

Again, this is a route EI has tried and failed on in the past. I suppose it depends how close the relationship is with UA, perhaps replacing the UA 757 may be a possibility. Would an EI presence at EWR and JFK trash yields into the NY area? Probably not if US were to shift 757 capacity elsewhere, probably if they did not.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 84):
Bmibaby will cease to operate all flights to and from from Belfast from 11 June, it has been announced.

Thats very short notice, especially given that many of the BHD flights were summer sun routes, rather than UK domestic routes. I imagine EI will be pleased, as will jet2 and easyJet.
BHX-NOC is also gone from September. As is the airline as a whole, it would seem. Sad news, I had many, many flights with WW in my early years at university when they flew MAN-ORK. As with the rest of the bmi group, a great bunch who were doing their best in less than ideal circumstances. "Hasta la vista, baby"

[Edited 2012-05-03 12:23:26]
 
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shamrock350
Posts: 5346
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Thu May 03, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting ein105 (Reply 79):
They also said that they were looking at European expansion, and were interested in UK domestic routes if they can get the LHR slots.

Aer Lingus have made no secret that they want more LHR slots for Irish services but with the only available slots already tied to domestic services it's strange to say the least that they are interested in actually operating these routes. It just seems bit out of character after the LGW mess which was one of this first things Mueller got rid of when he arrived.

What happens if nobody takes on the routes, is anyone taking Branson seriously? Maybe that's what EI is waiting for.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 84):
Bad news for Belfast but not unexpected .

Not a shock but a litte surprised to see it so soon. It was starting to drag on for a while though, I hope regional doesn't go the same way.
 
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OA260
Posts: 23750
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RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Fri May 04, 2012 12:36 am

Questions swirl ahead of today's Aer Lingus agm

ONE MORE THING: THERE SHOULD BE much to discuss at Aer Lingus’s agm today at Dublin airport.

It will be interesting to see if chairman Colm Barrington gives any guidance on the payment of a dividend in the near term.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...nance/2012/0504/1224315587137.html
 
EIDL
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:11 pm

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Fri May 04, 2012 1:09 am

Quoting ein105 (Reply 79):
They also said that they were looking at European expansion, and were interested in UK domestic routes if they can get the LHR slots.

I can't see that being a good idea at all. Increased rail speeds are pushing down demand and acceptable prices on UK domestic. And LHR is only really useful if you can feed - which would be dependent on BA (and possibly others) being willing to codeshare.
 
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shamrock604
Posts: 2189
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Fri May 04, 2012 1:31 am

My, all of a sudden things just got interesting in Irish aviation!

A few personal observations - If EI are looking at US East coast / Canada, i'm gonna plump for YYZ.


PHL wont sustain a 330 along side its hub carrier, US Airways. The 757 is adequate for the route in winter, and even then, loads can be on the low side.

EWR, out of the question I think. UA wont give that one up, and I think NY does not need so much extra capacity at the moment, which would depress yields in a market where EI are already clear market leader.

IAD is out based on EI's past experience and UA's new service.

MIA is the only possible I can see on the East Coast of the US, and it may canninalise MCO.

It has to be YYZ!

If it's not Canada/ US East coast, and the reports may have got that wrong, then SFO has to be most likely. EI's feed into DUB does now change the dynamics somewhat. When we talk of the previous attempt at operating the route, we do tend to forget that very important factor, and that of course is the very reason EIR was set up in the first place.

Regarding the EY thing, I think we may now see BA keep the DUBLHR route - EI's loyalty to BA can simply no longer be guaranteed.
 
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legacyins
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Fri May 04, 2012 2:10 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 86):
The problem is that if coming from Europe SFO is not a great hub for connecting to anywhere other than Hawaii, geographically. Most routes require a lot of back-tracking. Additionally from an operational standpoint SFO is less than ideal, with fog and closely spaced parallel runways.

SFO, being a UA hub, would provide connections up and down the West Coast, including Hawaii as you mentioned.

Operationally, yes SFO is less than stellar but it is because of the amount of flights being offered and the layout of the airport, being it was configured during the prop age. International flights have first priority for landing and are not always affected by the weather conditions. Short haul flights are the most affected by the limitations. The airport has never closed due to weather, unlike a ORD,JFK or DFW, but flow control is often used.
 
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OA260
Posts: 23750
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Fri May 04, 2012 7:41 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 90):
I think we may now see BA keep the DUBLHR route - EI's loyalty to BA can simply no longer be guaranteed.

British Airways to bring back Dublin-London route

Nearly a quarter of a century after pulling the plug on its services between Dublin and London Heathrow, British Airways jets will be making a reappearance on the route, probably from the autumn.

It's also likely that British Airways will eventually use its Terminal 5 building at Heathrow for its Dublin service, ditching the much-criticised Terminal 1 at the London airport. That could also pose a fresh challenge for Aer Lingus and other carriers on long-haul routes.

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...ck-dublinlondon-route-3098214.html

DUB-T5/T5-Connections would be a major enhancement for Irish passengers , fingers crossed we see it . Aer Lingus might suffer drop in passengers if that happened as people would choose same terminal connections.
 
Ire2008
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:18 pm

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Fri May 04, 2012 8:36 am

Very interesting that BA are coming back, shows there is money to be made! I presume it will be A320/21? Full service to Heathrow again! Will this pose a threat to Cityjet with BA offering their Exec club?

Kevin
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1749
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Fri May 04, 2012 9:35 am

Quoting EIDL (Reply 89):
Quoting ein105 (Reply 79):
They also said that they were looking at European expansion, and were interested in UK domestic routes if they can get the LHR slots.

I can't see that being a good idea at all. Increased rail speeds are pushing down demand and acceptable prices on UK domestic. And LHR is only really useful if you can feed - which would be dependent on BA (and possibly others) being willing to codeshare.

I am with EIDL on this point. However how about the thought that EI would get the slots and then use them for intra-UK flights operated by a new partner under the EIR brand? EIR is just a franchise agreement. Dash 8's or E-Jet's would be a lot more sutied to such routes than an EI A320. I have a regional airline in mind already.......
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2537
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Fri May 04, 2012 11:06 am

Quoting Ire2008 (Reply 93):
Very interesting that BA are coming back, shows there is money to be made! I presume it will be A320/21? Full service to Heathrow again! Will this pose a threat to Cityjet with BA offering their Exec club?

They are coming back, as a direct result of the BD take-over, I feel they will stick around for quite a few years. I don't think it will make much difference to Cityjet, but it may impact p2p flyers with BA status choosing BA metal over EI. That said, if they keep the bizzare BD schedule no-one will choose the route anyway.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 92):
It's also likely that British Airways will eventually use its Terminal 5 building at Heathrow for its Dublin service, ditching the much-criticised Terminal 1 at the London airport. That could also pose a fresh challenge for Aer Lingus and other carriers on long-haul routes.

Im not so sure about this one. I think BA would want to move to T5 eventually, but given the already mentioned constraints with infrastructure at LHR and T5 this will be a real challenge. I expect to see BA at T1 for quite a few years yet.
 
EIDAA
Posts: 452
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:12 am

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Fri May 04, 2012 11:16 am

One thing I noted in the Interim Management Statement issued by EI was that the two A319s that have entered service are replacing two A320s that are exiting the fleet. Can anyone advise which aircraft are scheduled to leave the fleet in the coming months?
Most Flown:- G-BUVA (20 Flights), EI-DEB (12 Flights), EI-JFK (11 Flights)
 
DavecFlyer
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:25 pm

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Fri May 04, 2012 12:43 pm

Quoting EIDAA (Reply 96):
Can anyone advise which aircraft are scheduled to leave the fleet in the coming months?

EI-CVA is sat in Hangar 6 at the moment and is for sale. It hasn't flown since a C check last year.

I'm not sure what the other one is.
ei,sf,fr,amm,cc,wx,bd,ba,ok,ua,ma,ay,re,cx,qf,fj,as,ac,az,adh,fua,ib,aww,km,aa,vs,nw,skb,cli,ne,kl,sa,ek,fi,lh,sn,af,qi,
 
EIDAA
Posts: 452
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:12 am

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Fri May 04, 2012 12:54 pm

Quoting DavecFlyer (Reply 97):
EI-CVA is sat in Hangar 6 at the moment and is for sale. It hasn't flown since a C check last year.

Thanks for that!
Most Flown:- G-BUVA (20 Flights), EI-DEB (12 Flights), EI-JFK (11 Flights)
 
tonymctigue
Posts: 997
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:01 am

RE: Irish 7/12: Up There Where The Air Is Rarified ...

Fri May 04, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 92):
British Airways to bring back Dublin-London route

This certainly just got interesting!
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