I flew back from JFK with BA in Club World / Business yesterday

It was a comfortable trip but the cabin is a bit tired and dated in comparison to some of the other offerings in the market at the minute. The tv screens were pretty small and the seats looked like they had seen better days.

Are there any plans to upgrade this cabin? I peered into the new F cabin and it looks great and feels fresh and inviting.

I hope there not planning on putting the current CW seats into the 380 or 787, what have they got in the 77W?

77W has the same cabin, and as its still relatively new I wouldnt expect anything new soon.

Quoting liverpoola380 (Thread starter): I hope there not planning on putting the current CW seats into the 380 or 787

I understand there will be a "refreshed" cabin for the A380 and, I also assume, the 787.

They really need to do something, I've decided to avoid BA. The product is seriously dated and it ain't cheap!

Their quite lacking when you look at the likes of Emirates and Singapore for the same clas

They have introduced a new IFE with the 77W, which addresses part of the OP's concerns...

But the seats will be pretty much the same in the 787 and A380... 2-3-2 in both, so still a more cramped layout compared to pretty much every operator today, unfortunately.

It would be great to see something completely new from BA. I'm hoping for something new in the next 4-5 years, before they get the bulk of their new aircraft. That way, they avoid a big chunk of the potential refit costs... This seems to be the strategy they're employing with the new WT/P product as well, but they were in a more dire need of a makeover sooner, so were developed for the 77W and aircraft that are still using products that are 2 generations old.

Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 4): Their quite lacking when you look at the likes of Emirates and Singapore for the same clas

BA's Club World absolutely hammers EK's old C seat. Not tried their new one but been many times on the old one and CW destroys it in my opinion.

While BA's Club World might looked tired and dated compared to some of its Asian and Middle Eastern competitors, by and large it is still one of the nicer offerings. In my own humble opinion, I think it kicks the butt of most of its TATL competitors (including Europe's other carriers as well).

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):

  

Are we talking about the latest CW cabin or the older version. I flew LON YYC on the 767 and that is the old cabin and it is very tired and dated, but on the same trip flew IAD LHR on a 744 and it was the "new" cabin and absolutely super. Miles ahead of the angled LH or TP offerings IMHO.

Of BA's entire CW offering, only the 767s feature to OCW, all the 772, 773 and 744s offer NCW.

All JFK flights (bar one 773) are 744s so the thread starter would have experienced NCW.

The current CW offering isn't very old in terms of years of service. Certainly you can find better business class offerings, you can also, very easily find worse.

I would say the BA CW offering is solid if not spectacular. Fully flat bed, good size, comfortable but of course offerings from middle east carriers on brand new aircraft do beat it.

The OCW, I still personally like it. It is being refereshed on the 767 with new fabrics and padding in the seats and a few other changes but it will still, essentially be OCW but given the time the 763s have left in service combined with the fact the NCW seats don't fit into the 763 cabin BA really had little choice.

Again, a personal opinion but I really like the BA CW layout whereby not all seats face the same direction.

Well, i'm less concerned with the seat in itself as of the product they offer in general compared by ex. to KL!
My wife and I flew last month for leisure from AMS to LAX and return in C, as we're used to travel with KL and other airlines in C we gave it a try with BA. The seats and the lounges in LHR T5 and LAX rock and a better than by ex. KL but one very important key point we've missed with BA was simply having the feeling to be a premium paying passenger. Don't get me wrong here, i'm not snob or whatever but when going on leisure and paying bucks for a premium ticket, i excpect that my travel starts the moment i enter the airport but with BA there was a huge lack of letting you feel that ur a premium passenger! Infact, we had the feeling that we're travelling economy with exception of sitting in a comfortable seat and making use if the lounges. Maybe compared to KL is not fair in a way, due to the fact that KL has a way less business seats in their aircrafts so the can (still) assure a more personilised service. What do you think?
I think, if they improve the service and paying more attention to each passenger they would be my first choice in the future but for the moment beeing, i prefer for my next flight at the of then year to fly KL.

I think it depends what routes you compare BA's CW on. Certainly EK, EY & QR offer a better J product, but BA has many routes that don't compete with gulf carriers. It beats most TATL carriers like AA & UA. And LH & AF still have sloped lie-flat seats in J.

BA certainly has the densest J cabin, hopefully they can make feel it more open on the A380 & 787. But I think the style of the cabin is much more tasteful than the fake wood and gold detail of EK.

Quoting luxair (Reply 10): i excpect that my travel starts the moment i enter the airport but with BA there was a huge lack of letting you feel that ur a premium passenger!

I guess its hard when you are one of many many thousand premium passengers passing through BA in any day.

Whilst I am not a fan of the layout of Club World, there is nothing wrong with the seat. Very comfortable, although as a bed it could do with a little more padding. The IFE screen is more than sufficient in my opinion. British airways has one of the most consistent hard products of any business class in the world. Apart from the B767 every single worldwide aircraft has exactly the same seat and considering we are talking abut 50+ B747s and 50+ B777 all with the same lie flat seat/bed, that's pretty good going.

Quoting StarGuy (Reply 13): 50+ B747s and 50+ B777 all with the same lie flat seat/bed, that's pretty good going.

Technically, the seat is narrower on the 777's compared to the 747... Your point is 100% correct though -- I can't think of any other airline as big as BA which has the such a consistently strong J product on all its long haul aircraft, excluding 'regional' aircraft (ie shorter haul 767's and A330's).

Edit -- Thinking about it, CX is probably another one, though the seats are different across some aircraft...

[Edited 2012-05-09 06:29:08]

Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 4): Their quite lacking when you look at the likes of Emirates and Singapore for the same clas

Whilst I can appreciate that in terms of overall service they may be behind some of their competitors, in terms of seat I think they still have one of the best. EK don't even have true lie flat seats on most of their fleet - if that is important to you then it rules out flying EK in business.

Quoting heebeegb (Reply 9): Again, a personal opinion but I really like the BA CW layout whereby not all seats face the same direction.

Me too. I find that the layout also ensures greater privacy over UA's new business class, South African's and Korean's.

I especially like the Upper deck window seats as you are high up facing the engines.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 11): BA certainly has the densest J cabin, hopefully they can make feel it more open on the A380 & 787. But I think the style of the cabin is much more tasteful than the fake wood and gold detail of EK.

The cabin does feel dense - especially on the 77W where Club World is one big cabin - for some reason it doesn't feel so dense on the 744 but perhaps that it because it is made of 2-3 smaller cabins depending on the configuration so it feels more cosy that dense.

Having said that, Etihad have a 2-4-2 staggered layout on their 330s and 340s which due to the cabin width makes it feel extremely cramped and the seats feel noticeably narrower than those of BA. The newer, brighter cabins and absence of the middle luggage racks as well as excellent service do make Etihad's an attractive product though.

Quoting liverpoola380 (Thread starter): The tv screens were pretty small and the seats looked like they had seen better days.

The 77Ws have the new entertainment system which have slightly bigger screens, better picture quality and more choices.

Whilst the old PTVs are slightly dated, what they have on the 77W is excellent. Other airlines may have bigger screens but then they are normally further away from your face so the increase in size is cancelled out.

I am unsure as to whether the current NCW is outdated, I think it still has a good couple of years in it yet. The problem is the catering. While wines have seen an uplift, the standard and quality of the food has (though never great), drastically worsened. The 'fruit in a plastic pot with a luke warm bacon roll' breakfast is simply not premium in any way. I understand the OP's views that their experience didn't feel premium for this reason alone. Many airlines plate their J food; while I realise the density of the CW seating may prevent this from being efficiently delivered, I do think the current hot mains are sub-par.

Overall I really enjoy the CW experience; the seat is great, I like the layout, but the food needs addressing.

Quoting A340600 (Reply 16):

I agree with your comments regarding the catering 100%. Just to shine a little light on the breakfast issue, having worked for airlines for the last 7 years, Business Class breakfast service creates an enormous amount of waste. Flights of mine would regularly land with 4,5,6 ovens full of breakfast items completely untouched with regularly as little as 5-10 customers actually wanting to be woken to have something. Croissants, muffins, toast, fruits and yoghurt, cooked breakfasts, bacon rolls, cereal, whole trays, whole ovens full to the brim and all left untouched. I can understand the need for BA to streamline the offerring to the most highly requested items to ensure that it actually gets used and reduce losses, especially on the short night flights from USA east coast for example on the High J B747 where they have as many as 70 CW seats.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 14): Technically, the seat is narrower on the 777's compared to the 747..

Nopes.....they are the same width.....its the aisles and gaps between the seat and windows that are narrower!

Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 4): Their quite lacking when you look at the likes of Emirates and Singapore for the same clas

I wouldn't agree with EK but possibly SQ when you factor in their soft product. SQ's new generation seat itself has its own issues - while it is ridiculously wide, it is quite close to the seat in front of you, and while it is completely flat, you do need to sleep at an angle to fit your feet into the "cubby hole" under the seat in front of you. Also, you cannot turn the seat into the bed without getting up and flipping the back over.

Quoting PVG (Reply 3): They really need to do something, I've decided to avoid BA. The product is seriously dated and it ain't cheap!

I agree it ain't cheap but I don't think its "seriously dated" at all. While it might not be the uber luxurious layout of the likes of Oman Air et al., it is the most consistently solid product amongst the bigger long haul carriers. The thing about carriers like EK and SQ is that they have a billion different layouts, and can get an older seat on a 7 hour flight, something that wouldn't happen with BA. I don't think we can underestimate the value of this to the frequent, high yielding or business traveler.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6): BA's Club World absolutely hammers EK's old C seat. Not tried their new one but been many times on the old one and CW destroys it in my opinion.

I agree - the only seat we have that is comparable to BA's is the one on the A380, and even that has its limitations. What offsets this is the stand up bar at the rear of the massive J cabin. But the lie flats on most of the 777 fleet and the ridiculous recliners on the A330/A340 (and recliners in disguise on the A345) do not compare to BA's Club World. You can get on a 10 hour flight on a 2-3-2 recliner configured bird on EK. Again, this wouldn't happen on BA.

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 7): While BA's Club World might looked tired and dated compared to some of its Asian and Middle Eastern competitors, by and large it is still one of the nicer offerings. In my own humble opinion, I think it kicks the butt of most of its TATL competitors (including Europe's other carriers as well).

I think BA in premium cabins is the best trans-Atlantic product from the US to Europe.

Quoting luxair (Reply 10): Don't get me wrong here, i'm not snob or whatever but when going on leisure and paying bucks for a premium ticket, i excpect that my travel starts the moment i enter the airport but with BA there was a huge lack of letting you feel that ur a premium passenger! Infact, we had the feeling that we're travelling economy with exception of sitting in a comfortable seat and making use if the lounges. Maybe compared to KL is not fair in a way, due to the fact that KL has a way less business seats in their aircrafts so the can (still) assure a more personilised service. What do you think?

I don't think you're being a snob at all, its a totally reasonable expectation, especially when you fork out such chunks of money to fly on a premium product. Unfortunately the nature of BA's market, being based in London, necessitates quite high density J and F cabins. Its really astounding to me that the newest addition to BA's long haul fleet, the 77W, has a mere 186 seats in Y, with a combination of 114 premium seats (including WT+). That's quite the ratio. For comparison's sake, where SQ puts 8 F seats in their premium long haul 77W, BA puts in 14, and fills them too.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 14): Edit -- Thinking about it, CX is probably another one, though the seats are different across some aircraft...

Yeah CX had a little bit of a debacle with their herringbone layout but they have fixed this with their latest J offering - one of the best in the skies I think. Their soft product (especially catering) could use an upgrade however, and pales in comparison to SQ's longhaul J catering. Again though, CX does have some regional J class seats floating around that are horrible as well, though unlike SQ I think these are now mostly limited to intra-Asia hops (whereas before they were making it as far as the Middle East).

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 19): where SQ puts 8 F seats in their premium long haul 77W, BA puts in 14, and fills them too.

BA is the only airline flying around with more then 8 First Class seats on most of its planes, even the Lufthansa 748 and A380 have just 8 F seats. BA's NEW F has 14 seats in a 744, way too many. Cathay only has 9 in the nose of its 744's against BA's 14.

To resume, BA isn't tired and outdated, to the contrary, it is in general a good product with what others mentionned, all their planes have the same type of seats, at least when buying a ticket you know exactly what you get, with EK its a kind of luck as they have no streamline in their product, you see when boarding what type of seat you get!
However, there is room for improvement at BA when it comes to their premium products. The food is a good point mentionned above, they could improve their quality of food (not only the breakfast) a hint for the BA folks, book a flight on Swiss and have a look there, simply copy & paste and your fine hehehe
Another important point is, for god sake pls put less premium seats in your aircrafts to guarantee quality and exclusivity of flying premium.

I still have the opinion that BA has one of the best business class products in Europe. British Airways and Swiss seem to be at the top for cabin comfort. The seat is of comparable quality to that of UA, DL, and VS who all compete with full flat seats on the busy Transatlantic market with BA.

There will always be a select few airlines offering better products. I don't think BA is going to be leading the pack in opulence, but they certainly have a good product (except catering which I agree is abysmal and just about the worst of any international airline that I have flown).

Sometimes 4 out of 5 stars is more profitable than 5 stars.

I will spring to BAs defence here:

Dont forget the seat you refer to is their SECOND fully flat bed seat in J - and dont forget they are a 100+ frames longhaul carrier not a small niche player.

There are still some major players who cannot guarantee you a proper bed seat - let alone an evolved version

And because they were first, they are understandably "older"

I am sure we can expect a third generation seat but I wouldexpect them to sort out the "big" long haul replacement fleet rder first before looking at the on board product

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 7): While BA's Club World might looked tired and dated compared to some of its Asian and Middle Eastern competitors, by and large it is still one of the nicer offerings. In my own humble opinion, I think it kicks the butt of most of its TATL competitors (including Europe's other carriers as well).

Agreed! I actually like the CW product and hope they don't change it too much. I like the fact that the seats are not angled into the aisle or windowbank and I like the real sense of privacy you get in the product, especially in the window seats. What other business product gives you 3-4 windows per seat. Absolutely incredible. Hope they don't change it out with a product that faces the interior of the plane. That would be a true waste.

I flew BA Club Sunday from LGW-MCO B777 G-VIIO.
The Gatwick fleet are high utilised but I found the cabin seats walls and carpet quiet fresh and not tired.
Did find a small problem with the cleaning of the "little places".

ba cabin

This is the privicy screen, I guess when the cabins are cleaned the screens are down and this is hidden.
Email to BA to follow.
I also like the straight on seating arrangement of their cabins,find the window seat quite private.
Feel that the meal standard is slipping but that is another topic.  

Quoting luxair (Reply 10): Well, i'm less concerned with the seat in itself as of the product they offer in general compared by ex

This is so true. I actually like the layout of the 777s and 747s. The seats are fine for me, but the service is robotic, impersonal and more like "i am doing you a favor by allowing you to fly on a BA flight". I always fly business class and I have to admit the level of service is very lacking on the BA flights. Do not dare ask for a drink of anything after the meal is done because it may be thrown at you. Its sad because the cabin crew are the persons that have the MOST contact with passengers. All that said its the younger generation of crew that I have noticed this with most often. Has BA changed how it trains its cabin crew?

Meal = Horrid and getting worse. But I will say that the light food service offered on the JFK to LCY is good, well the evening meal.. the breakfast is the same old stuff.

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 25): I flew BA Club Sunday from LGW-MCO B777 G-VIIO. The Gatwick fleet are high utilised but I found the cabin seats walls and carpet quiet fresh and not tired. Did find a small problem with the cleaning of the "little places".

Very true as well, I have found this to be the rule these days. Same thing on AA, BA, Virgin, USair.

Quoting heebeegb (Reply 9): Of BA's entire CW offering, only the 767s feature to OCW, all the 772, 773 and 744s offer NCW.

We flew four legs on different planes from ORD to Africa last year and each club world cabin was slightly different - one of the larger differences being the IFE. The 767 fr sure was the old - but on each of the three subsequent 777s we had different variations although slight. I do think the product is great.

On a similar note hopefully they can get the new WT+ rolled out.

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 7): While BA's Club World might looked tired and dated compared to some of its Asian and Middle Eastern competitors, by and large it is still one of the nicer offerings.

Quoting heebeegb (Reply 9): The current CW offering isn't very old in terms of years of service. Certainly you can find better business class offerings, you can also, very easily find worse.

But not many flat-bed J class products on other major carriers have just one less seat abreast than Y class (J on BA 8-abreast and Y 9-abreast). BA's 8-abreast J layout also requires that half the seats face backwards which many passengers don't like. And if you prefer a window seat (which all face backwards) you have to climb over the adjacent passenger's legs to leave your seat (except for a couple of bulkhead seats).

I much prefer the LX type of staggered seats on their A343/333 where all seats face forward and almost all seats (40 of 45) have direct aisle access. It's also only 4 or 5-across (rows alternate between 1-2-1 and 2-2-1), or 3 seats abreast less than the 8-abreast Y cabin, much more spacious than the BA J product.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 28): I much prefer the LX type of staggered seats on their A343/333 where all seats face forward and almost all seats (40 of 45) have direct aisle access. It's also only 4 or 5-across (rows alternate between 1-2-1 and 2-2-1), or 3 seats abreast less than the 8-abreast Y cabin, much more spacious than the BA J product.

I agree the LX and DL thompson seats are very good, however the LX seat is effectively a 7 abreast layout which is one less than economy just like BA is, but they do it differently by staggering rows rather than having passengers face opposite directions.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20): BA's NEW F has 14 seats in a 744, way too many. Cathay only has 9 in the nose of its 744's against BA's 14.

I'd like an explanation as to why you have deemed this too many seats, when they in fact go full on several markets.

The current Club World has been with us since December '06, and the previous iteration debuted around 6yrs previous so a new seat should be in the works but I've not heard any murmurings. Maybe a refreshed product for the A380 would be nice.

Quoting liverpoola380 (Thread starter): The tv screens were pretty small and the seats looked like they had seen better days.

Although dimensionally they're smaller because they're much closer to you they're about as big as one that's much larger placed at the foot of the seat, with the added bonus that you can tilt it to avoid glare.

Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 4): Their quite lacking when you look at the likes of Emirates and Singapore for the same clas

Really? Which version of Emirates 638684 seat configurations?  

Quoting luxair (Reply 10): I think, if they improve the service and paying more attention to each passenger

Although that'd be great given the volumes of passengers that BA deal with having personal attention to each passenger on the ground would be a monumental effort, even for First passengers that would require a significant undertaking. If you're valued to BA then they let you know.  

Quoting StarGuy (Reply 13): Very comfortable, although as a bed it could do with a little more padding.

Have you tried sleeping on the duvet? I always do this unless the cabin is freezing.

Quoting wahdadli (Reply 26): I always fly business class and I have to admit the level of service is very lacking on the BA flights. Do not dare ask for a drink of anything after the meal is done because it may be thrown at you. Its sad because the cabin crew are the persons that have the MOST contact with passengers. All that said its the younger generation of crew that I have noticed this with most often. Has BA changed how it trains its cabin crew?

Just curious but how many BA flights have you flown in Club World/First? I'm not the most regular flyer in the world by any stretch but with give or take 100 Club World and First flights under my belt in the last 10 years or so I'm yet to see the cabin crew attitudes you portray as being routine. As with any large organisation there are going to be a few mediocre employees but I feel the vast majority genuinely enjoy their work dealing with passengers and providing excellent service. My travel is 100% leisure and I choose to fly BA when possible. I find that after a longhaul flight the calibre of the cabin crew are what determine whether or not it was a world class, average or horror show of a flight. I'd fly someone else if I felt BA weren't offering the best for me, that might not be the best for you, however.  BA have introduced Mixed Fleet on some routes, it's cabin crew that aren't in it for life but for a few years and in premium cabins on longhaul flights their service routines aren't well received by all, although they're generally very friendly and enthusiastic. I've not experience them longhaul yet, only shorthaul.

[Edited 2012-05-09 17:49:42]

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 29): Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 28): I much prefer the LX type of staggered seats on their A343/333 where all seats face forward and almost all seats (40 of 45) have direct aisle access. It's also only 4 or 5-across (rows alternate between 1-2-1 and 2-2-1), or 3 seats abreast less than the 8-abreast Y cabin, much more spacious than the BA J product. I agree the LX and DL thompson seats are very good, however the LX seat is effectively a 7 abreast layout which is one less than economy just like BA is, but they do it differently by staggering rows rather than having passengers face opposite directions.

I don't quite understand how 1-2-1 and 2-2-1 in alternate rows could be considered as effectively 7-abreast. It's either 4 or 5-abreast and always looks more spacious to me than BA's 8-across layout. That's also true of the new CX J class seats now being installed on 777s which is 1-2-1, or just 4 across compared to 9 in Y..

The LX type of seats don't require as much seat pitch as BA's due to the way the passenger's legs fit in the gap next to the staggered seat in front, but from the passenger's point of view it's still either 4 or 5-abreast, not 8. You're also much further from the passenger next to you than on BA.

BA's Club World product was innovative when first introduced but many carriers have caught up or surpassed BA in recent years.

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 31):

As I do get your point here, in my opinion, regardless of high demand, BA should try hard and best to honour every paying passenger not only the big Avios collecting folks  

I agree with you regarding the crew, they have been friendly and helpfull at anytime however a lil robotic as mentionned by wahdadli due to the high amount of premium seats squeezed into the planes!

Quoting StarGuy (Reply 17): I agree with your comments regarding the catering 100%. Just to shine a little light on the breakfast issue, having worked for airlines for the last 7 years, Business Class breakfast service creates an enormous amount of waste. Flights of mine would regularly land with 4,5,6 ovens full of breakfast items completely untouched with regularly as little as 5-10 customers actually wanting to be woken to have something. Croissants, muffins, toast, fruits and yoghurt, cooked breakfasts, bacon rolls, cereal, whole trays, whole ovens full to the brim and all left untouched. I can understand the need for BA to streamline the offerring to the most highly requested items to ensure that it actually gets used and reduce losses, especially on the short night flights from USA east coast for example on the High J B747 where they have as many as 70 CW seats.

I appreciate what you're saying StarGuy, but when you're traveling from the US westcoast, two full meals need to be offered in all classes, not just dinner and a cold breakfast (i.e., muffin, juice, bacon roll etc..). BA doesn't have an excuse for not offering a better catering product on their longer US flights to SEA/SFO/LAX/SAN/LAS/PHX. Even KL which is basically the same stage length offer two meals. Even a cold European breakfast would be nicer than a frugal cold muffin or warm bacon roll. A nice plate of cold cuts, cheeses, fresh fruit, granola and yogurt would be perfect. They offer this on their flights to Asia, South America and so on.
The westbound high tea service is a joke. Serving wrapped sandwiches like something you can buy from a store, or even worse out of a machine. I know they have increased their catering budget, but additional changes need to be made.
NZ does a great job with their catering on LAX-LHR-LAX. Superb and served with pride!

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 32): BA's Club World product was innovative when first introduced but many carriers have caught up or surpassed BA in recent years.

This is true. Perhaps something is in the works and it's being kept under type wraps.

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 19): I agree it ain't cheap but I don't think its "seriously dated" at all. While it might not be the uber luxurious layout of the likes of Oman Air et al., it is the most consistently solid product amongst the bigger long haul carriers. The thing about carriers like EK and SQ is that they have a billion different layouts, and can get an older seat on a 7 hour flight, something that wouldn't happen with BA. I don't think we can underestimate the value of this to the frequent, high yielding or business traveler.

True, it is consistent, but it is still dated in my opinion. The seats are too low to the ground. The bed is hard. The IFE is not close. The people are nice enough, but the service levels are not consistent and the catering is not great.. I really don't see any reason why I would pay a premium to fly BA CW other than for convenience of schedule. I think that the Finnair service from ASIA is just as good or better and the price is substantially lower. If you can deal with a change in Helsinki, there's no reason to fly BA. From JFK, I don;t really see that BA is any better than the US carriers, especially since most of them have now started upgrading their services and hard product to match or exceed BA. Again, the only reason to fly BA is the schedule and T5 (where their lounges are great!).

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 15): what they have on the 77W is excellent

I probably wouldn't go that far... It's a big improvement, but It absolutely pales in comparison to the equivalent Panasonic systems that are coming out with most other airlines. It's going to start to feel very old quite quickly IMO.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 18):

Oops, sorry! Each passenger still has less personal space though, and the cabin definitely looks and feels more cramped.

Quoting wahdadli (Reply 26): This is so true. I actually like the layout of the 777s and 747s. The seats are fine for me, but the service is robotic, impersonal and more like "i am doing you a favor by allowing you to fly on a BA flight". I always fly business class and I have to admit the level of service is very lacking on the BA flights. Do not dare ask for a drink of anything after the meal is done because it may be thrown at you. Its sad because the cabin crew are the persons that have the MOST contact with passengers.

Not my experience at all. Quite the opposite, in fact - BA have always been very free flowing with the booze.

In my last flight from DXB I couldn't sleep, so I asked for a whisky. She kept it coming without prompting until I finally fell asleep.

Last year, I was heading to SFO in W in the cabin immediately behind F. In the initial pre-lunch drink run, the CSD asked what would I like and I replied champagne. He got me a glass of Krug from First. I don't remember the glass being empty after that - he filled it 3 or 4 times over the next few hours. At the end of the flight he corked up and gave me to take away a bottle of stonking good Claret (a Pauillac I think) from F which had only had one small glass taken from it.

Many, many times in J my champagne glass has been filled without prompting.

I could go on. I would say, getting a drink from BA has never been in any way a challenge, nor have I ever had grumpy service in J. (I will admit though to experiencing snooty crew in Y.)

Back on topic: BA's J seat is the best reason not to fly F. I'm sure F is absolutely wonderful, but I don't see the value of it over J. Meaning, I think BA's J seat is terrific.

I concur though that the food in J could be improved - the quality of the food seems to vary markedly depending upon the departure point. I think BA could do some work with their suppliers in their outlying stations to try and bring it up to scratch with the food ex-LHR.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20): BA's NEW F has 14 seats in a 744, way too many.

Why is it too many if they're filling them?

Quoting vhtje (Reply 37): He got me a glass of Krug from First

I dont think Krug has been available in First for a number of years IIRC

Quoting PVG (Reply 35): If you can deal with a change in Helsinki, there's no reason to fly BA. From JFK, I don;t really see that BA is any better than the US carriers, especially since most of them have now started upgrading their services and hard product to match or exceed BA.

They still don't have the most important thing though (well second most after a flat bed) a proper ground experience. AFAIK BA is the only airline from JFK to have the proper pre-flight dining in First/Club World so you can sleep onboard. It makes an enormous amount of difference to be able to sleep from right after takeoff until 30mins or so before landing, I've become accustomed to flying BA across the pond in J since they started Sleeper Service starting in 2004 and it wasn't until I flew United in F in '09 that I realised how much of a step up BA's arrangement is.

Quoting APYu (Reply 39): I dont think Krug has been available in First for a number of years IIRC

It hasn't. BA have had some pricier champagnes in First over the last few years; Bollinger La Grande Annee, Laurent Perrier Grand Siecle, Taittinger Comtes de Champagne and the ilk, but not Krug. I'd not be complaining if it came back.

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 40): AFAIK BA is the only airline from JFK to have the proper pre-flight dining in First/Club World so you can sleep onboard.

Virgin Atlantic also offer this service from their new Clubhouse at JFK.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 32): I don't quite understand how 1-2-1 and 2-2-1 in alternate rows could be considered as effectively 7-abreast. It's either 4 or 5-abreast and always looks more spacious to me than BA's 8-across layout. That's also true of the new CX J class seats now being installed on 777s which is 1-2-1, or just 4 across compared to 9 in Y..

When in the actual seat sleeping, the size of the seat is about the same. It is wider at the shoulders and narrower at the feet on both seats. BA does this by flipping passengers. The Thompson seat used by Swiss (and similar by Delta & Emirates) does it by staggering rows. The actual Thompson seat is not wider than the BA seat. I agree it is a better layout, but the seat is no wider since at 4 abreast/5 abreast there still are the footwells taking up width. The benefit is that they essentially feel like a table next to the seat.

My overall point, is by switching directions of passengers or by staggering rows, the new designs of seats offer more space at the shoulders than feet and function at only one less seat per row than economy.

Quoting PVG (Reply 35): From JFK, I don;t really see that BA is any better than the US carriers,

You made very valid points in your post, but I really have to disagree with you on this one in particular. I've flown every airline that operates NYC-London with the exception of Kuwait Airways, and I have to say that British Airways and Virgin Atlantic are a notch above any of their American counterparts. I find that the service in the air from the crew, the catering and the general overall experience in the cabin to be much superior on the British carriers. Service I've had on AA has been super sloppy with very mixed crews, most trending towards the horrible. In my DL tops the American carriers on this route - I've had some quite good experiences on them, and I've come across some absolutely fantastic crews. Its that their ground infrastructure at JFK is absolutely shameful. And this is another point where VS and especially BA (with T7 in NY and T5 and LCY in London) resoundingly win.

Quoting vhtje (Reply 37): Not my experience at all. Quite the opposite, in fact - BA have always been very free flowing with the booze.

They have always been super free flowing in my experience as well!

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 40): They still don't have the most important thing though (well second most after a flat bed) a proper ground experience. AFAIK BA is the only airline from JFK to have the proper pre-flight dining in First/Club World so you can sleep onboard. It makes an enormous amount of difference to be able to sleep from right after takeoff until 30mins or so before landing, I've become accustomed to flying BA across the pond in J since they started Sleeper Service starting in 2004 and it wasn't until I flew United in F in '09 that I realised how much of a step up BA's arrangement is.

Completely agreed - as I mentioned above BA and VS completely trump the American carriers in this regard.

I am also someone who is defending the BA NCW product as I feel it is one of the better ones out there and probably in the top three in Europe. Of course the Asian and some of the Middle Eastern carriers are better but at least BA is consistent by having the same seat on the long haul fleet (except 767 which is also flat though).

I flew it on the 777-300ER and the IFE was good and had a crystal clear screen. If they would install this screen on the other planes it would resolve probably the biggest issue besides catering which really is something they need to improve on.

Quoting luxair (Reply 33): I agree with you regarding the crew, they have been friendly and helpfull at anytime however a lil robotic as mentionned by wahdadli due to the high amount of premium seats squeezed into the planes!

Please define "robotic"? I must admit, I find on a whole BA employ the most random and individual personalities going. Something you just dont get at any other airline and something that makes the crew so enjoyable.

If you are referring to the service, well yes, BA have banged on and on about "consistency" (without actually being able to practice this themselves) to their crew to the point where its crew just dont bother trying to deviate from the "standard" for fear of getting a telling off!

Thats what happens when you have a product designed by people who dont know their customers or the job!