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LH121GLA
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Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 9:40 am

So, thanks to BMI slots BA should have 3 new routes according to this report - LBA, ZAG and RTM. All unusual in my opinion but I suppose with the BD shorthaul aircraft they need to go to nearby destinations.

http://www.ttgdigital.com/news/new-b...hanks-to-bmi-slots/4683972.article
 
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 9:52 am

Odd that BD flew it for many, many years, then ceased it - no doubt due to the speed and frequency of Leeds-London trains and the conseequent traffic reductions. Clearly BA must think they will gain sufficient connecting traffic.

I remember seeing KLM Cityhopper's F50s at LHR operating RTM-LHR. Nice to see this link reestablished.

Presently OU operates ZAG-LHR daily.

[Edited 2012-05-11 02:56:23]
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sevenheavy
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 9:54 am

Interesting routes, probably none that would have been on my list of likely candidates, but I'm sure BA have done their homework and I can see them working.

I was expecting some expansion to key short haul routes, rather than entering more marginal new ones (although I would expect some slots to be used for exactly the opposite on long haul) but I'msure BA have done their homework.

Interesting to see how these are timed....presumably there are some key connection markets BA are targeting.
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
Someone83
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 9:57 am

A question also remains on which BD routes (to be ceased) these slots will be taken from
 
santos
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 11:18 am

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 3):
A question also remains on which BD routes (to be ceased) these slots will be taken from

Probably from the sale of BMI Regional, they didn't own any slots
 
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GCT64
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 11:35 am

There is a bit of duplication with another a.net thread. As I wrote on that one:

"Quoting OA260 (Reply 9): BA have announced LHR -LBA and LHR -RTM using BD slots.

Interesting - do we think those are genuine long term routes or just slot holders while they wait to build up the long-haul network? Opening new stations would appear to be a strange decision if they are just slot holding routes."
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HullCitySpotter
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 11:44 am

Brilliant news for LBA! Really hope this route can work!
Does anyone know what the aircraft type will be? I'm guessing an A319
 
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cy319
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 3):
A question also remains on which BD routes (to be ceased) these slots will be taken from

Probably from the parallel routes such as EDI, VIE,NCE.
Avgeek & frequent traveller
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 12:30 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 5):

As route choices, they are certainly unexpected. But whilst slots need to be kept warm, adding new short-haul routes to very short range destinations means that BA may not be in a situation next season where flights to the same destination can depart from different terminals which could be the case if frequencies were simply added to existing destinations.

[Edited 2012-05-11 05:33:17]
 
GCPET
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 12:37 pm

Weren't expected but I think these will work for BA, good to see they're expanding Domestic! BA will be very welcome at Leeds hopefully!

GCPET
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peanuts
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 12:39 pm

As global alliances are trying to solidify their frequent flier base, flights to Rotterdam could be pretty important actually. I'm still dumbfounded AF/KL wouldn't fly to their CDG hub from RTM. I know: train train train. It's overrated in a way.
AF/KL could be servicing the Rotterdam region by flying connecting traffic from RTM through CDG and onwards.

OneWorld has a good chance of capturing some of that connecting traffic now, taking it over LHR. It's a smart move and I hope it works for them.
 
shamrock321
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 12:40 pm

I think LBA and ZAG make sense even if just slot warmers, RTM just seems odd even as a slot warmer!
 
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 12:47 pm

Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 11):
RTM just seems odd even as a slot warmer!

Why? Loads of business demand, hence so many daily services to LCY (up to 8x daily). RTM used to be served from LHR, LGW, STN... It doesn't strike me as that odd.
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par13del
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 12:48 pm

Since most are shocked at the routes it may be a safe bet that they are just slot holders for something coming down the pipe later.
 
mdavies06
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 12:54 pm

I wonder what other European stations BA have in mind? Perhaps a second city in Poland or Ukraine? A return to BEG? Or perhaps they will stick to Western Europe with more new routes in France, Germany etc...
 
jet72uk
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 1:37 pm

RTM will not work...................................
 
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 1:40 pm

Quoting jet72uk (Reply 15):
RTM will not work...................................

Why is that? I'd like to see your analysis.  
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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cy319
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 1:42 pm

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 14):
I wonder what other European stations BA have in mind?
Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 14):
perhaps they will stick to Western Europe with more new routes in France, Germany etc...

Given BA's recent history of route launches&cancellations, they will probably expand more in west europe or simply transfer some of their LGW-Italy, LGW-France services to LHR.
Avgeek & frequent traveller
 
fcogafa
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 1:52 pm

If KLM only ever used smaller aircraft on the RTM route I would be surprised if BA's mainline smallest aircraft, the A319, wasn't overkill. Maybe the route may be operated by a 'partner' airline with smaller aircraft?
 
jet72uk
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 3:25 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 16):

Do the maths - its an hour by car from AMS and even quicker by train.
 
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoting jet72uk (Reply 19):
Quoting [email protected] (Reply 16):
Do the maths - its an hour by car from AMS and even quicker by train.

Yet has up to 8 daily flights to LCY.

I don't know how it will perform - and BA's analysis would have undoubtedly determined that it was sufficiently attractive or else it wouldn't be starting - but I am willing to give it the benefit of the doubt until we know more details.

[Edited 2012-05-11 08:54:00]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
peanuts
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 4:43 pm

Ask yourself, is Rotterdam an important business market? You bet. The LCY flights simply prove it.

Granted, AMS is not too far but still far enough for some business travelers. Congestion issues (both road and train) remain. Besides, RTM is incredibly convenient and small enough to navigate to and through it.

As we see the three major global alliances vie for the same business traveler, it's smart to focus on feeder flights from their hub to places like Rotterdam.

I can see LH do it in the future as well. FRA-RTM.

If this is a serious attempt and BA succeeds, I'd expect KL/AF to follow with a CDG feeder flight from RTM again. The train is great and all but still leaves a lot to be desired.
 
vv701
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 6:27 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 1):
I remember seeing KLM Cityhopper's F50s at LHR operating RTM-LHR.

This will not be the first "BA" LHR-RTM service either:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David Oates


But I am expecting the new flight to use different metal to the above.  
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 7:02 pm

Maybe these flights are slot warmers for slots that would have to be given up to a new entrant for LHR-EDI or LHR-ABZ. Remember, BA could have to provide slots for an airline to operate up to 7 flights to EDI/ABZ, so it would be easier to discontinue a new route like LBA or RTM rather than rejig the rest of the schedule to find the slots. I would imagine that BA thinks it can make money on these routes, but if it has to give up the slots then it can do so by simply dropping short-range feeder routes like these. Also would enable BA to play a PR card - "we could have maintained these routes, but we have to give up the slots to let another airline operate LHR-EDI".
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
David_itl
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Fri May 11, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting cy319 (Reply 7):
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 3):
A question also remains on which BD routes (to be ceased) these slots will be taken from

Probably from the parallel routes such as EDI, VIE,NCE.

Expect the LBA route to come from the duplicated services to MAN. Around the same flying time
 
aamd11
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sat May 12, 2012 1:49 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 23):
Also would enable BA to play a PR card - "we could have maintained these routes, but we have to give up the slots to let another airline operate LHR-EDI".

Might be a tricky sell... the average person on the street might wonder "why did they have to give up a slot to LBA to allow someone else to fly EDI?" On the other hand, there are people who'll believe everything that's written in the papers, so it might work.   

I would've thought if they wanted to keep slots warm while they rejig the network, it would be better to stick to what you know/what you have already - rather than going to the cost and effort of setting up a new station. I'm not writing these three destinations as slot warmers just yet. Would be great to see LBA linked to LHR again.
 
jumpjets
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sat May 12, 2012 12:10 pm

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 25):
I'm not writing these three destinations as slot warmers just yet

If BA just wanted to keep slots warm until they decided their long term future surely it would have been easier just to increase frequencies on existing routes where BA have an infrastructure in place rather than the hassle of setting things up in a new location.

Also increasing and decreasing frequencies on existing routes would most likely attract less attention than shutting down a new route after a few months.

My guess is that BA tend to make a go of these locations as strange as they seem to me as choices as part of BAs strategic development.
 
mainMAN
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sat May 12, 2012 1:22 pm

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 25):
I'm not writing these three destinations as slot warmers just yet. Would be great to see LBA linked to LHR again.
Quoting jumpjets (Reply 26):
My guess is that BA tend to make a go of these locations as strange as they seem to me as choices as part of BAs strategic development.

There's enough big business in Leeds and Yorkshire to suck in lots of high yielding passengers to feed other routes; much in the same way that BA maintains MAN - LHR.
 
Joost
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sat May 12, 2012 4:09 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 10):
I'm still dumbfounded AF/KL wouldn't fly to their CDG hub from RTM. I know: train train train. It's overrated in a way.
AF/KL could be servicing the Rotterdam region by flying connecting traffic from RTM through CDG and onwards.

The have tried RTM-CDG on F50 shortly after the AF-KL merger, but it was stopped after a few months.

For O&D traffic, the train is simply a way more efficient and comfortable mean of transport (2:36 to Gare du Nord), and 11 trains daily can never be matched by flights on the route.

For connecting traffic, it's a hard business case. When traveling from Rotterdam to New York, it's way more comfortable to go to AMS (by train or car), and fly non-stop, than to fly RTM-CDG-JFK. The hassle of connecting, the risk of missing flights, it's simply less convenient than to fly non-stop.

For these flights, one must have a decent amount of high-yielding O&D traffic to support the flight. The back of the plane can always be filled with low-yielding connecting passengers.

For RTM-CDG, the O&D traffic wasn't there, and connecting traffic alone, with a prime hub that close, doesn't work.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 21):
I can see LH do it in the future as well. FRA-RTM.

LH just announced MUC-RTM a few weeks ago, starts 1 October 2012 on CRJ-900 equipment. MUC-RTM makes way more sense, as it's a nice O&D destination. Munich is too far for a one-day or two-day trip by car or train, Frankfurt has the same problem as Paris.

Quoting jet72uk (Reply 15):

RTM will not work...........
Do the maths - its an hour by car from AMS and even quicker by train.

Why exactly would it be strange to fly to both AMS and RTM, when we find it perfectly normal that airlines serve both:
- GLA and EDI (BA, KL, UA)
- CWL and BRS (KL, EI)
- LBA and MAN (KL, FR, soon BA)
- STN, LTN and LGW (U2, FR)
- LHR, LGW and LCY (BA)
- DUS and CGN (KL, AF, TK, LH)

I must admit, I'm kind of surprised too, and I think the A319 might be a bit large for the route (which must be flown 2x daily at least), and also: HV failed on LGW, STN and LTN. And for the reason stated above for the failure of RTM-CDG, the risk is that they fail to attract enough O&D traffic. But if they find enough O&D pax, they can fill the A319 easily with transfer pax.

But on the other hand: the market from the Netherlands to London is very big and from Rotterdam - The Hague there is a lot of high-end traffic (Shell and Unilever with prime offices in London and The Hague / Rotterdam, prime users for the LCY-flights, Port of Rotterdam-related companies, government traffic, etc).
 
peanuts
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sat May 12, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 28):

I agree with your summary in general.
I wasn't thinking RTM-CDG-NYC as an example though which would obviously be easier from AMS. I was more thinking destinations that aren't flown nonstop and/or daily from AMS. (Africa, South America and some others come to mind.)

I still think if BA takes this seriously, they could make a great case of drawing premium connecting traffic to LHR from RTM, which would be a win for OneWorld. Even if the route operates at a small loss, it may still be worth it in the grand scheme of things in the competitive alliance world.
 
vfw614
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sat May 12, 2012 8:14 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 21):
I can see LH do it in the future as well. FRA-RTM.
New addition to Lufthansa route network / Service will be operated from Munich

Lufthansa is launching a new route to Rotterdam. From 1 October 2012, the twice-daily service will be operated from Munich with a Lufthansa CityLine CRJ-900. “With this new service we will offer our customers convenient connections to the economic region centred around Rotterdam and The Hague. These cities will also have direct links to other destinations in Europe and worldwide via our Munich hub,” says Thomas Klühr, Member of the Lufthansa German Airlines Board, Munich & Direct Services.

Rotterdam, which has a population of 600,000, is the second-largest city in the Netherlands and is the world's third-largest port. The airport is also the gateway to The Hague, the country's third-largest city. Lufthansa's new service will connect this strong economic region via Munich to 70 further destinations in Europe and worldwide.


http://presse.lufthansa.com/en/news-...ve/2012/april/25/article/2133.html

[Edited 2012-05-12 13:14:52]
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sat May 12, 2012 9:29 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 30):
Lufthansa is launching a new route to Rotterdam. From 1 October 2012, the twice-daily service will be operated from Munich with a Lufthansa CityLine CRJ-900. “With this new service we will offer our customers convenient connections to the economic region centred around Rotterdam and The Hague. These cities will also have direct links to other destinations in Europe and worldwide via our Munich hub,” says Thomas Klühr, Member of the Lufthansa German Airlines Board, Munich & Direct Services.

Didn't stay as best friends for long did they ? It was only three weeks ago that they did each other a massive favour when LH sold BD to IAG.
 
heebeegb
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 9:05 am

My initial thoughts were that these must just be slot warmers, and I still am of that mind set.

However, if not, BA must have some research to suggest that these destinations will provide enough feed to their long haul operation, no way BA would bother with LHR slots for O&D traffic from LBA and RTM.

Be interesting to see how good the feed is from both destinations, from LBA I would imagine it could be quite good but Im still skeptical about RTM. If you are O&D you'd fly into LCY surely? (I know BA have a better network to KLM but) if you are looking to go long haul, you'd drive to AMS surely?
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 9:41 am

Quoting heebeegb (Reply 32):
Be interesting to see how good the feed is from both destinations, from LBA I would imagine it could be quite good but Im still skeptical about RTM. If you are O&D you'd fly into LCY surely? (I know BA have a better network to KLM but) if you are looking to go long haul, you'd drive to AMS surely?

LCY is very convenient for the financial sector as the planes literally fly past the tower blocks in Canary Wharf, its advantages however rapidly diminish for much of the rest of the Country. LHR is well positioned for West London, the home counties, and the South Coast. Knowing little about Rotterdam apart from it having a major port and being an oil processing centre I'm limited in an ability to comment, but it might be that LHR is better positioned for Rotterdam business links than LCY.
 
edina
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 11:16 am

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 33):
LCY is very convenient for the financial sector as the planes literally fly past the tower blocks in Canary Wharf, its advantages however rapidly diminish for much of the rest of the Country. LHR is well positioned for West London, the home counties, and the South Coast. Knowing little about Rotterdam apart from it having a major port and being an oil processing centre I'

Don't underestimate LCYs catchment area.....for those that use public transport to get to their departure airport LCY is a lot more convenient for the bulk of South London I.e. anywhere on rail routes into Waterloo, Waterloo East & London Bridge where they can connect quickly onto the Jubilee line/ DLR.

From where I live in SW18 to my workplace at LHR T5 I allow 2 hours for my journey as my travel time can vary so much irrespective of the route (it's never less than 1hr20m with perfect connections). For off duty travel I use LCY wherever possible as I can be at security within 50 minute of leaving my house despite LCY being 2 miles further as the crow flies. Going even further off topic LGW & SOU are better options than LHR for those of us south of the river.
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LHRFlyer
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 11:45 am

Quoting heebeegb (Reply 32):
My initial thoughts were that these must just be slot warmers, and I still am of that mind set.

However, if not, BA must have some research to suggest that these destinations will provide enough feed to their long haul operation, no way BA would bother with LHR slots for O&D traffic from LBA and RTM.

Be interesting to see how good the feed is from both destinations, from LBA I would imagine it could be quite good but Im still skeptical about RTM. If you are O&D you'd fly into LCY surely? (I know BA have a better network to KLM but) if you are looking to go long haul, you'd drive to AMS surely?

I'm inclined to agree with you and I suspect favourable offers from the airports have influenced these choices of routes.

However, it is worth bearing in mind that IAG has now had full access to bmi's Diamond Club database and historical route performance and that may have influenced this as well.

Certainly, the responses I have seen from bmi frequent flyers has been a favourable one of surprise and they probably have not had reason to be particularly enamoured with BA in the past.

Potentially a very smart interim move.
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 11:50 am

Quoting heebeegb (Reply 32):
However, if not, BA must have some research to suggest that these destinations will provide enough feed to their long haul operation, no way BA would bother with LHR slots for O&D traffic from LBA and RTM.

Interestingly LBA was the only domestic route, that I am aware of, that BA code-shared on. It was towards the end of the BD operation and also extended to booking BD->BA connections at ba.com. BA clearly see some benefit in operating to LBA, it takes a lot of effort to re-open a station, even if most of the work will be contracted to Servisair. Im not sure if BD have any staff left at LBA, possibly one or two at the ticket desk asRegional have an operation there.
 
heebeegb
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 12:13 pm

Didn't BA operate LGW-LBA in the past on J41s?
 
Joost
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 12:24 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 29):
I was more thinking destinations that aren't flown nonstop and/or daily from AMS. (Africa, South America and some others come to mind.)

But then, how big is the demand from RTM to SCL, OUA or SGN? And also, when the route RTM-CDG is only 2x or 3x daily, you'll see that travel time is still bigger compared to driving to AMS and take one of the 12x daily flights AMS-CDG.
 
peanuts
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 12:46 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 38):

Correct. Which is why, in this current environment, AF/KL doesn't have to offer anything from RTM to CDG.
Let's see now if BA is serious about RTM and if they are, what kind of traction they are getting from premium connecting traffic. It would be interesting to watch the O&D numbers as well and what kind of effect LCY has in this.
I'm willing to bet if OneWorld gains a frequent flyer base with RTM, SkyTeam will make a move as well with RTM as a feeder destination to CDG again. The current economic conditions aren't helpful however.
OneWorld could have a lot of upside here. In the same way SkyTeam is poaching a lot of UK traffic away from LHR and routing it over their AMS hub.
 
sam1987
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 13):
Since most are shocked at the routes it may be a safe bet that they are just slot holders for something coming down the pipe later
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 23):
Maybe these flights are slot warmers for slots

Why on earth would an airline spend money on starting up new stations if they were just slot warmers? Surely it would be easier just to add frequencies to existing destinations if they were just warming slots?

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 23):
it would be easier to discontinue a new route

Would it? Surely it would be easier to add then take away frequencies on existing routes?

Quoting david_itl (Reply 24):
Expect the LBA route to come from the duplicated services to MAN

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. BD operate four times daily to MAN - moving two or three of these to LBA would be a good idea.
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
LJ
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RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 12):

Why? Loads of business demand, hence so many daily services to LCY (up to 8x daily). RTM used to be served from LHR, LGW, STN... It doesn't strike me as that odd.
Quoting peanuts (Reply 21):
Ask yourself, is Rotterdam an important business market? You bet. The LCY flights simply prove it.

The 8 daily flights are the reason why it will be hard to make LHR-RTM work. BA has to offer at least 3 daily departures if they want to make RTM work. However 3 daily A319s will be a challenge unless they get the Shell and/or Unilever contract.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 29):

I wasn't thinking RTM-CDG-NYC as an example though which would obviously be easier from AMS. I was more thinking destinations that aren't flown nonstop and/or daily from AMS. (Africa, South America and some others come to mind.)

Not many destinations can't be reached from AMS. The asme argument for LHR would even be harder as AMS has comparable number of destinations to Asia. Only India and Bangladesh are not covered (well) by AMS (and Australia/New Zealnd if you include these), but then you can't get nonstop to KIX, CTU from LHR Same for Africa and Latin America (where AMS has more options than LHR).

Quoting joost (Reply 28):

LH just announced MUC-RTM a few weeks ago, starts 1 October 2012 on CRJ-900 equipment. MUC-RTM makes way more sense, as it's a nice O&D destination.

Will be interesting to see how long this one will last. LH (and others) tried before but failed.

BTW it's interesting that a destinations is considered announced when the chairman indicates that it still has to sign an agreement with the airport (RTM). Moreover he indicates that the negotiations haven't come to a conclusion (yet) as he wants better rates. Thus the thread title looks a little bit misleading
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 9:59 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 41):
The 8 daily flights are the reason why it will be hard to make LHR-RTM work. BA has to offer at least 3 daily departures if they want to make RTM work.

If the flight is primary designed for transit passengers (in both directions), I don't see why this is necessary. Two dailies would probably be sufficient. Though would RTM pax then be subject to the APD? Might make it less appealing.
 
LH121GLA
Topic Author
Posts: 345
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 5:42 pm

RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 10:21 pm

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 42):
Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 42):
Though would RTM pax then be subject to the APD? Might make it less appealing.

Any non-UK transit passenger (less than 24h) is exempt from APD. Stinks!
 
jumpjets
Posts: 1470
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 pm

RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Sun May 13, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting LH121GLA (Reply 43):
Any non-UK transit passenger (less than 24h) is exempt from APD. Stinks!

I suppose technically transit passengers never come into the UK and so it would be hard to levy tax on them.

Just looking at the RTM departures schedule for tomorrow and its surprisingly sparse - the LCY services and a small number by Transavia and that's all. In the absence of any other mainline airlines BA presumably think there is a sufficiently large untapped market - especially westbound towards the USA I would imagine - to make it worth a foray into the RTM market.
 
thijs1984
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:41 am

RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Mon May 14, 2012 11:54 am

Finally some nice developments around Rotterdam airport. Lufthansa has already announced a service (which is the first time ever that they come to Rotterdam, they have not been to Rotterdam yet, instead of a failure as mentioned above)
And it is nice to see BA is now probably coming back to Rotterdam.
BA used to operate a LGW-RTM service (which had good load factors) but that service was suspended after the downfall in aviation after 09/11.

The RTM marked is untapped, but it has lots of potential. Despite AMS being quite close. Most locals (and inbound business travelers to ) from south-west Netherlands would prefer to travel via Rotterdam if good connections are being offered. It looks like that the airport has finally some success in acquiring new routes with mainline carriers. It's ridiculous that such a mayor city is not being served by any mainline carriers. But that is going to change now.

Of course, KLM is not happy about all the recent developments. Competition in the backyard of AMS is never convenient for them. and i am sure that KLM will do everything in it's power to minimize any positive developments in RTM (as they have did before ).

Remark about MUC-RTM, VLM has flown it before (in the late 90's). However on very inconvenient times of the day, and no connections to onward destinations. I am sure that LH can make it work.
BA was successful on the RTM-LGW route. The load rates were good.
And for Transavia failing on the RTM-London routes. That was just to much competition for the same type of passengers combined with all the other flights offered from the Netherlands to the London-area.
BA is tapping into a completely different type of potential passengers. I am sure they will be able to sustain a 2x daily or 3 x daily service to LHR. And this even without harming the RTM-LCY route to much. I already get very positive feedback when I tell friends in business about the plans of BA.
I am quite sure that BA and Rotterdam airport will reach a agreement. Unless the KLM somehow manages to overrule this positive development via the mayor shareholder of RTM (being the Schiphol group)

Other airlines like Emirates and Turkish airlines have also showed (a while ago) that they are interested in starting up routes from Rotterdam. I hope that all of the mentioned airlines will come to Rotterdam soon.
 
PezySPU
Posts: 281
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:27 pm

RE: Three New BA Routes Announced Thanks To BMI Slots

Mon May 14, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting sam1987 (Reply 40):
Why on earth would an airline spend money on starting up new stations if they were just slot warmers? Surely it would be easier just to add frequencies to existing destinations if they were just warming slots?

Have a look at the report again, IAG will do both:

Quote:
In late April, we completed our purchase of bmi. As a result, British Airways is able to manage its wider Heathrow slot portfolio more effectively and is launching a new route to Seoul later this year. Airports across the UK and beyond have contacted us about starting services and, subject to reaching satisfactory agreement with them, we plan to also launch flights from Heathrow to Leeds-Bradford, Rotterdam and Zagreb and increase frequencies to existing key destinations. Consultation continues with bmi mainlinestaff and their trade unions about plans to integrate the business into British Airways.

Lots of slots need to be warmed...  

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