Emirates Combining Their Cabin Crew Licences?

wadha · Fri May 11, 2012 7:13 pm

When Emirates started operating the A380, they have had a dedicated team of cabin crew who are only liscenced exclusively to operate the Airbus A380. They were the ones who introduced the new uniform. With the issue of the wing cracks, I have seen a lot of A380 destinations being swapped back to the 777 or the A340's. Lately I heard from a friend who is a senior flight steward that the A380 crew will no longer be exclusive to the A380, and they will be cross trained on the other aircrafts as well.

Any one has more input to the situation?

hamad · Fri May 11, 2012 8:26 pm

This information given to you by your friend is not completely correct. What Emirates is going to do is utilise their cabin crew. The wing inspections for the aircrafts have nothing t do with this decision. I am not the one to comment on the decisions, however, the company prospective is why not have A380 crew a chance to operate another common aircraft?

As per GCAA, cabin crew cannot operate more than two aircraft types. The A380 crew will not be put on all Emirates operated aircraft: They will operate on 777 and A380, while the other crew will operate 777 and 330/340.

Etihad, Qatar and Gulf Air have the same requirements, so Emirates is not doing any thing new.

m11stephen · Fri May 11, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting hamad (Reply 1):
As per GCAA, cabin crew cannot operate more than two aircraft types. The A380 crew will not be put on all Emirates operated aircraft: They will operate on 777 and A380, while the other crew will operate 777 and 330/340.

What is the point of that? In the United States I have heard of flight attendants/cabin crew being certified on up to seven different types of aircraft. Delta flight attendants are all certified on the 737-700/800, 747-400, 757-200/300, 767-300/400, 777-200ER/LR, A319/320 and A330-200/300...

hamad · Fri May 11, 2012 10:09 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 2):
What is the point of that? In the United States I have heard of flight attendants/cabin crew being certified on up to seven different types of aircraft.

We are not talking about the United States here, we are talking about the United Arab Emirates civil aviation. Every country has their own reasons, procedures and requirements, That rule suits the United states.
There are differences between airline operations and flights in both countries, look at all the domestic flights in the United States and compare them to this area of the world! completely different industry!

[Edited 2012-05-11 15:27:05]

something · Fri May 11, 2012 11:35 pm

Quoting hamad (Reply 1):
however, the company prospective is why not have A380 crew a chance to operate another common aircraft?

What do you mean by that? A380 crew will fly on 777s because they enjoy it, this is a nice gesture to let them do that?

Cubsrule · Sat May 12, 2012 12:45 am

Quoting hamad (Reply 3):
We are not talking about the United States here, we are talking about the United Arab Emirates civil aviation. Every country has their own reasons, procedures and requirements, That rule suits the United states.

Unfortunately, you didn't answer his question, and it's also something about which I am curious. What's the goal of the regulation limiting cabin crew to two types?

hamad · Sat May 12, 2012 12:56 am

Quoting something (Reply 4):
Quoting hamad (Reply 1):
however, the company prospective is why not have A380 crew a chance to operate another common aircraft?

What do you mean by that? A380 crew will fly on 777s because they enjoy it, this is a nice gesture to let them do that?

Not necessarily, however if an airline can utilise their crew to work on two aircrafts, then why not?

hamad · Sat May 12, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Unfortunately, you didn't answer his question, and it's also something about which I am curious. What's the goal of the regulation limiting cabin crew to two types?

Its not a question I can answer, I don't work for the GCAA, and don't have information on what is the reason for that. All we know is that you cannot fly more than two types. Now mind you the A330/340 are treated as one type

777boi · Sat May 12, 2012 3:34 am

Yes, we are being cross fleeted onto the 777 only!!! There are a lot of crew who are unhappy about this situation, but many, including myself, are welcoming the opportunity to serve different destinations! As per legality wise, Im not sure how this will pan out as there are many differences between the 380 fleet and the main fleet! Will be very interesting to see how this goes as the 380 crew have always been considered (not my personal opinion) "superior"!

boysteve · Sat May 12, 2012 8:19 am

Emirates crew have told me that they could only be certified on 5 aircraft types (they were not sure whether this was some kind of global law or just something to do with the UAE). So you had one set of crew who could operate;
A332,A343,A345,B772,B773

and another team dedicated to the A388.

RyanairGuru · Sat May 12, 2012 9:20 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
What's the goal of the regulation limiting cabin crew to two types?

I'm not sure, but the USA is the only country I'm aware of that doesn't.

As an aside, the UK and Australia both allow for three aircraft types.

Quoting boysteve (Reply 9):
Emirates crew have told me that they could only be certified on 5 aircraft types (they were not sure whether this was some kind of global law or just something to do with the UAE). So you had one set of crew who could operate;
A332,A343,A345,B772,B773

The A330s and 40s count as one type, as do the 777 varietals. Therefore they're licensed on 2 aircraft. This a UAE - not universal - rule.

bastew · Sat May 12, 2012 10:01 am

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 2):

Quoting hamad (Reply 1):
As per GCAA, cabin crew cannot operate more than two aircraft types. The A380 crew will not be put on all Emirates operated aircraft: They will operate on 777 and A380, while the other crew will operate 777 and 330/340.

What is the point of that? In the United States I have heard of flight attendants/cabin crew being certified on up to seven different types of aircraft. Delta flight attendants are all certified on the 737-700/800, 747-400, 757-200/300, 767-300/400, 777-200ER/LR, A319/320 and A330-200/300...

In europe the maximum aircraft types cabin crew can fly on is 3. In Australia it is 5. In most developed countries 5 aircraft types seems the maximum. I guess the reasoning behind this is safety. As in cabin crew should be very familiar with the location of all the emergency equipment on the aircraft as well as land evacuation/ditching procedures - both which can vary widely between aircraft types.

I guess the Gulf countries and the US are the two extremes in the industry with regards to this.

RJA321 · Sat May 12, 2012 10:48 am

I think they should have done that from the beginning considering the sheer size of their future A380 and 777 fleet

airevents · Sat May 12, 2012 1:00 pm

It makes a lot of sense from the point of view of the airline to let flight crews fly as many different aircraft types as possible, gives the airline much more flexibility. As a flight attendant myself, being licensed for say seven aircraft families would be hell. I often find one family (A330/A340 with all the subtypes) quite confusing. You only get to fly say the A340-600 every few months maybe and yet are of course expected to be super fit and know it all. I can only imagine what it must be like to fly seven different aircraft families. Would not feel very safe to me at all...

strfyr51 · Sat May 12, 2012 1:37 pm

what other than knowing where the Evac and emergency equipment is so complicated about being a cabin attendant?? is swimming different or, lifesaving proceedures?? Emergency Egress?? What?? I'm not sure of why cabin crews need to be type rated in the first place unlike Pilots . This is very interesting to me. (obviously I'm from the USA. ) If this is a safety aspect then it should be explored for EVERYBODY! I do know a lot of Non USA Licensed Mechanics (or Engineers as you call them) are Type rated. but if I had to LIST all the airplanes I've worked on and gained expertise on?? I couldn't carry My License in my pocket!!. What does it do for your yearly Requals?? Are there Written and practical tests on EVERY fleet type?? How long are the checkrides?? are you rooted to just one set of routes or is it by seniority??

something · Sat May 12, 2012 1:48 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 14):
what other than knowing where the Evac and emergency equipment is so complicated about being a cabin attendant?? is swimming different or, lifesaving proceedures?? Emergency Egress?? What?? I'm not sure of why cabin crews need to be type rated in the first place unlike Pilots . This is very interesting to me.

Everything is different from aircraft type to aircraft type. The EK A332 doesn't have much cabin commonality with the A345 at all. Other flight attendants can probably expand on this a little better than me, but my impression of being rated on 7 or more aircraft types..

Quoting airevents (Reply 13):
I can only imagine what it must be like to fly seven different aircraft families. Would not feel very safe to me at all...

It's not only finding emergency exits, but also knowing where certain equipment is stored, how the galleys work, the doors close and open, how the IFE works, where the hatracks and storeage areas are, how all the seats work. Air Berlin has only 737 or A320 cabin crew and doesn't mix them. I was very surprised to see how different even the 73G and 738 are from each other; there are even differences between 738s itself, especially now that the Sky Interior is coming online. The amount of knowledge flight attendants have to retain for each airplane type, in a very short time at that, is crazy. As with everything, you get used to it if you fly the plane regularly, but I would suppose it's simply impossible to feel 'home' in an airplane if you fly the type not more than 2-3 times a month.

longhauler · Sat May 12, 2012 1:49 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
I'm not sure, but the USA is the only country I'm aware of that doesn't.

Canada also has no restrictions on the number of aircraft types on which a Flight Attendant can work.

At Air Canada, all F/A's are trained and tested an all types from the E175 to the B777. There are a lot of type specific memory items and drills they must know, so while it is very convenient for the company, it is pretty tough on them, and their annual recurrent training.

hamad · Sat May 12, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting boysteve (Reply 9):
Emirates crew have told me that they could only be certified on 5 aircraft types (they were not sure whether this was some kind of global law or just something to do with the UAE). So you had one set of crew who could operate;
A332,A343,A345,B772,B773

and another team dedicated to the A388

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
The A330s and 40s count as one type, as do the 777 varietals. Therefore they're licensed on 2 aircraft. This a UAE - not universal - rule

777-200ER, 777-200LR, 777-300ER, 777-200, 777-300

A340-300, A340-500, A330-200

Depending on what aircraft you are operating within the same type, the complete emergency equipment can be different. some aircrafts has crew rest compartments, some don't. some have more jumpseats, some has less. when you have a crew rest compartment, you have extra emergency equipment, more procedures including cabin pressurisation, escape procedures from that compartment, as well as oxygen and fire fighting procedures.

Aircrafts within the same type with different variations include different naming and labeling of the emergency equipment locations, It can has a different configuration in the galley, which mean a different leading path to the exits.

Same goes with Airbus! mind you some aircrafts has two class, some has three classes, and that make differences as well.

Quoting airevents (Reply 13):
It makes a lot of sense from the point of view of the airline to let flight crews fly as many different aircraft types as possible, gives the airline much more flexibility. As a flight attendant myself, being licensed for say seven aircraft families would be hell. I often find one family (A330/A340 with all the subtypes) quite confusing. You only get to fly say the A340-600 every few months maybe and yet are of course expected to be super fit and know it all. I can only imagine what it must be like to fly seven different aircraft families. Would not feel very safe to me at all...

As for the supriority of the A380 crew, I don't think they are superior either, Just different set of crew who operate different aircraft which happens to be new!

[Edited 2012-05-12 07:15:06]

[Edited 2012-05-12 07:16:00]

michaeljp · Sat May 12, 2012 2:58 pm

On EK you have 2 different "fleets". Main fleet whom operate all a/c bar the 380 and then 380. However with routes now going to main fleet due to issues with the 380 the 380 crew are operating on 777's as additional crew members to assist with service only. They are not licensed to open cabin doors for example. GCAA allows only 2 a/c type rating as previously said and I think that's good. The amount of knowledge required may suprise some people whom think cabin crew only have to serve a meal and that's it. For example knowing which medications they are allowed to administer with or without medical professional approval, where oxygen is located or where a birth kit is kept and what to do in case of a birth on board.
Also don't forget emirates doesn't want crew just sitting there on the ground as it costs money and they are not earning anything for them.
There are many differences between an A343 and 345 for example as previously said.

delta2ual · Sat May 12, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 2):
Delta flight attendants are all certified on the 737-700/800, 747-400, 757-200/300, 767-300/400, 777-200ER/LR, A319/320 and A330-200/300...

And DC-9/MD-88/MD-90.

SIA747Megatop · Sat May 12, 2012 6:13 pm

Singapore Airlines cabin crew are trained and certified on 3 aircraft types, no more. New recruits are certified one aircraft at a time over the span of 6 months to 1 year. I believe the most common combination is: B777/A380/A330.

Semaex · Sat May 12, 2012 7:10 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 14):
If this is a safety aspect then it should be explored for EVERYBODY!

Ah well, don't start with all the differences in ICAO and US. I just had 12 tiring Air Law hours last week, so it's in my short term memory at this time, but the safety standards laid down by ICAO (practically binding for all member states) and the US are different in so many areas, it's hard to count them.
I'm not saying the one or the other is better. I just find it confusing and always worth a discussion when dealing with all the Annexes and regulations that are different in one or the other system.