TWA85
Topic Author
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:06 pm

AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 7:49 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...RSS&feedName=innovationNews&rpc=43

Does this mean Doug Parker is beginning to really gain momentum, or has Tom Horton had a change of heart?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25821
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:04 pm

Nothing has changed. AA would be idiotic to not explor merger options. This does not mean AA is going to agree to the ridiculous union-backe merger proposal, which will just bring the company back into BK again.
a.
 
AA94
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Nothing has changed. AA would be idiotic to not explor merger options. This does not mean AA is going to agree to the ridiculous union-backe merger proposal, which will just bring the company back into BK again.

  

AA is simply exploring their options, as MAH4546 stated.

Personally, I think it's highly unlikely that AA would ever merge with US. Even though AA has its share of problems, US is definitely not the answer to those problems, and I shudder to think about what Doug Parker would do to AA if he ever got his way.

Rumors of the AA/US merger will swirl around for awhile, but nothing holds any water until AA formally agrees to a merger or the bankruptcy judge issues his opinion on the matter.
 
etops1
Posts: 850
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:26 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:11 pm

Mah4546. Can it . This deal is gonna happen . Horton is feeling the pressure . Going at it alone is what's gonna put AMR back in BK .Kirby has been in NYC all this week meeting with AMR creditors selling this deal . They are listening and this announcement today proves it . A lot has changed . Wether you like it or not .
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 6934
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:13 pm

Nothing gets the AA cheerleaders back in the stands than seeing a thread like this, I predict this thread is going to get really long.

Regards,

Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
JFKPurser
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:03 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Nothing has changed. AA would be idiotic to not explor merger options. This does not mean AA is going to agree to the ridiculous union-backe merger proposal, which will just bring the company back into BK again.

Just as I predicted. I have been saying here for some time now, the creditors -- most of whom have long been (privately) extremely skeptical of AMR's business plan and enthusiastically supportive of the US plan, are finally making their move.

Actually the one thing that is sure to bring AA back into chapter 11 would be NOT merging with US. It would be a chapter 7 liquidation. The creditors are smart enough to understand this.

So you're right. Nothing has changed. It's just that the cards are now finally out on the table.

[Edited 2012-05-11 13:31:56]
 
JFKPurser
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:03 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:22 pm

Quoting chepos (Reply 4):

Nothing gets the AA cheerleaders back in the stands than seeing a thread like this, I predict this thread is going to get really long.

They can continue to ponder their already-failed theories and remain in denial as long as they want. There's no stopping it any more. Personally, I think it was the banner of "No Confidence in AMR Management" the unions hired to fly up and down the Hudson RIver today that finally sent AMR over the edge.
 
brons2
Posts: 2480
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:26 pm

AA and US together is a train wreck waiting to happen. I guess as long as the wall street guys get paid though, anything can happen.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4050
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting brons2 (Reply 7):
AA and US together is a train wreck waiting to happen. I guess as long as the wall street guys get paid though, anything can happen.

That pretty much sums it up
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:29 pm

The creditors want their money and while they agree with AA's plan of chopping the knees off their employees they are waking up to the fact after chopping their knees off they cant make it into work no employees to work no way to bring in money. While I dont remember everything from DL/UA/NW BK's but AA is trying to get their costs way below what the others did in BK. While all the employees know their needs to be cuts but AA is out for blood and it just may back fire on them. I saw the gun pointed at the TWU's contract no paay raise in the contract and its a 6 year contract. So in 2018 you might see a pay increase after the last one you had in 2001 Wow....
 
JFKPurser
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:03 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:35 pm

Quoting etops1 (Reply 3):
Kirby has been in NYC all this week meeting with AMR creditors selling this deal .

Yes. And the deal is now officially SOLD. Horton is at least smart enough to know that if he capitulates and maneuvers correctly, he can still manage to carve out a few million undeserved dollars as he gets kicked out.
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:41 pm

A merger or change of management has to take place before AA exits BK. The management / employee relationship has become so acrimonious that even the creditors see the cracks in the foundation. The only solution is to remove the existing management via merger or overthrow of the current management team.

One thing seems clear. The current management team is (or has) lost a lot of backers in the financial community. That is a problem if they want to exit independent or with the same management team.
 
phxa340
Posts: 1068
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:42 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 5):
Just as I predicted. I have been saying here for some time now, the creditors -- most of whom have long been (privately) extremely skeptical of AMR's business plan and enthusiastically supportive of the US plan, are finally making their move.

I am sorry but you have been incorrect a few times. You stated in the other thread that Boeing was on board and a few days later Boeing came out and said that they were not on board with the Unions and to give AA some time.

Quote from article : "The airline has reached an agreement with its creditors to explore whether a merger would create more value than its plan to exit bankruptcy as a stand"

Absolutely nothing to see here , why wouldn't the creditors look at a merger proposal ??? They will look at it.... look at US financials and say "Pass"
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3550
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 12):
They will look at it.... look at US financials and say "Pass"

As opposed to looking at AMR's financials and thinking they look good? They'll take whatever they can get, and like it.
 
phxa340
Posts: 1068
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:55 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 13):
As opposed to looking at AMR's financials and thinking they look good? They'll take whatever they can get, and like it.

The creditors aren't going to look just at current financials ... they will look at a predicted future value of the company as a standalone and merged entity. A lot of creditors will be willing explore a merger but if they look at the FV of a standalone entity , they will find it a stronger business case I believe in this case.
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Nothing has changed. AA would be idiotic to not explor merger options. This does not mean AA is going to agree to the ridiculous union-backe merger proposal, which will just bring the company back into BK again.

They should make you the AA ambassador in Sweden. Does AA fly to Sweden at all?

Anyway, for a neutral point of view it DOES make a lot of sense to merge in this new aviation world. AA on its own just cant compete against Delta, United and the LCC's. Face it.

See the positive side of it, AA ( or US ) might finally get planes with a livery.  
 
JFKPurser
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:03 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:00 pm

Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 12):
I am sorry but you have been incorrect a few times. You stated in the other thread that Boeing was on board and a few days later Boeing came out and said that they were not on board with the Unions and to give AA some time.

I was actually not incorrect. Boeing has been on board with the merger for quite a while now -- since the very beginning as a matter of fact, along with the PBGC, which I stated shortly after US formally announced its interest. For political reasons, their CEO made that statement. Now that the UCC has reached consensus, that story has changed, because clearly Boeing agrees that the time has now come to force Horton's hand. Timing is everything, and everyone has their specific reason. It surprises me how few people understand that often in business, protecting ones' interest means saying one thing while meaning the exact opposite. So AA got their "time". It was all only a formality -- most likely, I suspect, arranged in time to get Horton to ink the 787 deal, which will be announced shortly. So I hate to break it to you, but thus far, everything I've posted here has ended up happening in one way or another.
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:04 pm

kl911....I dont think AA needs to be as big as DL or UA or merge with US to compete with them. Provide great service, provide a great product they can compete against anyone. Bigger is not always better....They have a very long way to go and under their leadership I dont think they can get there....
 
phxa340
Posts: 1068
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:04 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 15):
Anyway, for a neutral point of view it DOES make a lot of sense to merge in this new aviation world. AA on its own just cant compete against Delta, United and the LCC's. Face it.

UA, VX, WN - all have a long laundry list of issues. IF AA can get its costs down they could be a seriously great competitor with some solid hubs.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 15):
Anyway, for a neutral point of view it DOES make a lot of sense to merge in this new aviation world

Ha how is that neutral ? Your saying AA can't compete with the big boys post bankrupcy based on what ? Everyone is at Nascar speed for this merger to happen but remember it has to be the rational thing to do at the end of the day.
 
phxa340
Posts: 1068
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:10 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 16):
So I hate to break it to you, but thus far, everything I've posted here has ended up happening in one way or another.


Its ok , nothing has been broken. You are so pro-merger that you process information one way and I read it another way - from a financial perspective. But hey man , thats why I like it on here, I get to see different view points.

You say this deal is "Sold" ... I say "Not Quite Yet". With that being said , either way I hope all the employees come out of this OK.
 
User avatar
flashmeister
Posts: 2685
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:11 pm

Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 18):
Everyone is at Nascar speed for this merger to happen but remember it has to be the rational thing to do at the end of the day.

No, it just has to be more profitable in the short term than not merging. Be very careful of equating rational with profitable.
 
AKLDELNonstop
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:04 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 16):

Let's say you are right and Doug buys AA. Do you really think AA employees will have an easier time? I don't think so. Here's what will likely happen (and this has been posted many times before)

On the Labor side - Costs will be prohibitive. Doug will realize that he can't really keep his commitments to the unions. He will then go in to bankruptcy again. There is no way - none at all - that he can be competitive at the numbers he is touting. Unless, of course, oil drops to half of what it currently costs.

On the customer side - Many EXPs (like me) will be completely disillusioned with the changes to the AAdvantage program, that Doug and team will no doubt implement, and leave for UA and DL in droves. Just how precisely, will, losing your most valuable customers help make you earn more money in better work conditions?

So while your "prediction" maybe completely right, be careful what you ask for, because you may get it!
 
phxa340
Posts: 1068
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting AKLDELNonstop (Reply 21):
So while your "prediction" maybe completely right, be careful what you ask for, because you may get it!

   The same AA people that are gunning for this merger are going to be back on these boards knocking new management in a few years when they realize the grass isn't any greener on the other side.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4963
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting AKLDELNonstop (Reply 21):
On the customer side - Many EXPs (like me) will be completely disillusioned with the changes to the AAdvantage program, that Doug and team will no doubt implement, and leave for UA and DL in droves.

Why would they change one of the few items that is seen as a major strength and attraction point of the existing AA? They aren't stupid.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5155
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 6):
They can continue to ponder their already-failed theories and remain in denial as long as they want. There's no stopping it any more. Personally, I think it was the banner of "No Confidence in AMR Management" the unions hired to fly up and down the Hudson RIver today that finally sent AMR over the edge.

Here's the dumb question. Why would the unions put their faith in another protege of Bob Crandall? The last 3 CEOs of AMR/AA all worked their way up the org. chart under Crandall. None have had anywhere near the success of Crandall. Parker got his start at AA during the Crandall era. Why would he be anymore successful at running AMR/AA than Horton and his predecessors?

If I were the head of APA, APFA, or TWU, I would be out looking for a senior executive with Southwest who feels that by the time Kelly retires, he would be too old for the Board to consider, or someone from the hotel or cruise industry with a good track record in making improvements in service while getting along with labor.

Just my two cents.

By the way, AA's plan doesn't look at that different from the plans that UA, DL, and NW all used to exit bankrucpty.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5155
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting AKLDELNonstop (Reply 21):
On the customer side - Many EXPs (like me) will be completely disillusioned with the changes to the AAdvantage program, that Doug and team will no doubt implement, and leave for UA and DL in droves. Just how precisely, will, losing your most valuable customers help make you earn more money in better work conditions?

So while your "prediction" maybe completely right, be careful what you ask for, because you may get it!

Exactly. I have lifetime gold status, but I could see Doug Parker deciding to cut down on the perks, such as preferred seating, use of upgrades, etc.
 
JFKPurser
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:03 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:30 pm

Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 19):
You say this deal is "Sold" ... I say "Not Quite Yet". With that being said , either way I hope all the employees come out of this OK.


Thanks, that's exactly what we are trying to do. Our motivation is to save our careers and to save American Airlines, and this is the only option. We appreciate your support! I've been reporting events as they have been relayed to me -- in real time -- and only in the interest of enlightening those here who may take an interest in this matter. It has proven to be difficult to be taken seriously. But in the end, people will believe only what they want to.

[Edited 2012-05-11 14:35:11]
 
flyingcat
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 10:33 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:33 pm

AA management has been doing everything to stop this.

I think this will be another attempt to hold everyone off as it is not in their interest to have a US merger. Horton and most senior VPs will be out of a job. At best they will commit o liking at it but I am sure they will only focus on the cons and more than likely they will be flat out pushed into a merger or sacked by the board.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3550
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting AKLDELNonstop (Reply 21):
On the Labor side - Costs will be prohibitive.

They'll probably do a mass early out program to get some of the topped off people off the books.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:40 pm

Quoting TWA85 (Thread starter):

Does this mean Doug Parker is beginning to really gain momentum, or has Tom Horton had a change of heart?

If the creditors want the deal then Tim Horton pretty much has to follow their lead
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4963
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 24):
The last 3 CEOs of AMR/AA all worked their way up the org. chart under Crandall. None have had anywhere near the success of Crandall. Parker got his start at AA during the Crandall era. Why would he be anymore successful at running AMR/AA than Horton and his predecessors?

Parker left early on and made his own way, and with a lot more success. HP was a disaster when he took over in 2001 and nobody would have predicted that in a few years HP would buy out US and have the network it does today. I'm not exactly sure why anyone is connecting him so much with AA, when he has been the CEO of another airline for many years now (not to mention his four years in management at NWA in between). I'm sure he would find it personally satisfying to take over AA, but don't believe for a second that he owes everything he has to working under Crandall.
 
User avatar
pu
Posts: 1364
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:08 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting brons2 (Reply 7):
as the wall street guys get paid
Quoting usairways85 (Reply 8):

That's a good hidden agenda and driving force here that hasn't been discussed much. The lawyers get a big pay day out of the bankruptcy anyway. But the prospect of a multi-billion dollar merger no doubt has the Wall Street boys wetting their pants in excitement. They are probably tripping over themselves racing to offer all the relevant parties sweet fInancing and M&A services. That alone tips the balance in favour of a merger: because of all the 8 (or 9?) figure fees it would generate.

Quoting AKLDELNonstop (Reply 21):

On the customer side - Many EXPs (like me) will be completely disillusioned with the changes to the AAdvantage program, that Doug and team will no doubt implement, and leave for UA and DL in droves. Just how precisely, will, losing your most valuable customers help make you earn more money in better work conditions?

You are probably correct that Parker won't be so obsessed with the likes of so-called high value customers as AMR has been over the last 12-15 years. But AA's strategy here was in part what brought them to bankruptcy. Chasing the shrinking pool of big spending corporate flyers has never been shown to work consistently with a US airline in the 2000s, while US's watered down amenities are producing a profitable business model...and of course WN's minimal incentives/perks to "high value" customers works best of all.

Pu
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 10:32 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 5):
Just as I predicted. I have been saying here for some time now, the creditors -- most of whom have long been (privately) extremely skeptical of AMR's business plan and enthusiastically supportive of the US plan, are finally making their move.

Actually the one thing that is sure to bring AA back into chapter 11 would be NOT merging with US. It would be a chapter 7 liquidation. The creditors are smart enough to understand this.

So you're right. Nothing has changed. It's just that the cards are now finally out on the table.

You did not predict this. It is due diligence. You remember that term. You used it to describe what the creditors were doing by letting the section 1113 hearings continue. Now, that really wasn't due diligence. That was just the creditors agreeing with management that labor is a big problem. But this, this really is due diligence. The creditors want AMR to compare the value of a stand-alone plan versus a plan that involves a merger or even sale of assets.

It is really funny how you think that the only outcome of this evaluation has to be a merger with US. First of all, there is no prescribed outcome. Indeed, it is possible that AMR and its consultants might conclude that breaking up the airline and selling assets would provide the best value. Oh, wouldn't that be the perfect outcome for you? A sale of assets with no employee commitments. One can only dream. Because as much as I would like to see the unions pay for their avarice and insanity, there is probably still more value to AMR as a stand-alone.

In any case, it was fully expected that the creditors would perform their own evaluation of the two plans or that they were going to ask AMR to do that. Now, we'll see what they think of a combination of US and AA that would be similar in size to UA (in terms of ASM's), but have 20,000 more employees. I don't see how that could inure to the unions' benefits. Now, we will see how accurate Parker's projections of $1.5 billion in cost and revenue synergies are, when the combined carrier will have three pilot seniority lists to juggle.

I told you what some of the negatives of merging US and AA. I expect AMR and its consultants to add to the list of negatives and to quantify the associated risks. When it is all said and done, the creditors will want as much value as they can get, with some protection against risk. There are enormous risks to a merger with US for the creditors because for the most part their claims will be settled with equity in a combined company. If Parker can not make good in a year on that $1.5 Billion, the creditors could take an even greater hit than they have already. I fully expect AMR to highlight those risks for the creditors.

But this is the crucial point, one you completely missed. The creditors are still working with AMR management. They asked AMR to perform the evaluation for itself. They didn't ask the unions to do that and they did not force the board to start negotiations with Parker to merge the two companies. The creditors didn't even prescribe an outcome. From what I have read, AMR agreed to study all options for a merger or sale of assets. So, no, the cards aren't all on the table. And, since we are talking value here and not vengeance, merger here could mean sale to equity partners with some of the cash going back to the creditors. In any case, the fate of the unions is hardly settled. In fact, if I were an AA FA, I would find the creditors request to be quite unsettling. It means they are not taking anyone's side. They just want more money, from your paycheck, from AMR, from anybody.

[Edited 2012-05-11 15:38:55]
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25821
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 10:47 pm

Quoting etops1 (Reply 3):
Mah4546. Can it . This deal is gonna happen . Horton is feeling the pressure . Going at it alone is what's gonna put AMR back in BK .Kirby has been in NYC all this week meeting with AMR creditors selling this deal . They are listening and this announcement today proves it . A lot has changed . Wether you like it or not .

I would not at all be surprised if AA and US merged. I support a merger. But it's not going to happen under this union-favored proposal which is entirely unsustainable in the long run and will drive AMR back into the bankruptcy courts in 5-10 years.

US Airways is the one that desperately needs a merger - with its industry worst yield performance and lack of ATI partners - not AA. The merger has a very high chance of happening, just not on the terms of AA's unions.
a.
 
AAplat4life
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:14 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 10:53 pm

US is not without its problems, but it is currently profitable and has some decent assets. Also the last two mega airline mergers were not without their pitfalls. When acquiring NW, DL ended up with too much concentration in the midwest. it did not need hubs in Memphis, Cincinatti, Detroit and Minneapolis. With the CO merger, United got Newark, Houston and Cleveland. Obviously Cleveland is no power-house of an airport and IAH has to deal with competition at Hobby and the fact that Houston is really too far south to be a good connecting airport compared to others. But obviously there were many advantages to these mergers.

I view a US/AA combination as bringing in many positives. Traffic from US hubs could feed many of AA's international destinations. It could allow AA to grow its Asian and Latin American routes or even add some. Other than Phoenix, the markets US is dominant in are pretty good ones. One thing we know is that AA has been shrinking its domestic market share and is unable to compete. It needs a larger network to regain its footing, and this is the only opportunity available to it. I believe the deal will happen once the parties decide what to do about Horton. That is the stumbling block, becuase Parker will be putting this deal together and will be taking over. Many other parts of AMR management, however, will stay, because of experience--particularly in international operations.

Obviously, the creditors have told AMR to look at this more closely, and it will do so. This is clearly a blow to Horton and his view on emerging as a stand-alone entity.
 
JFKPurser
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:03 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 10:53 pm

Okay William. We can come back to this once Horton is gone and Parker is CEO of American Airlines. And then, if it will make you feel better to know that your hypothesis was the route taken to that end, I will give you that. You being a MIT Professor and aviation "expert", I can empathize and understand how critically important that would be to you. I will continue to sit where you know I belong -- on my jumpseat -- where I will read People magazine and ignore passengers.



[Edited 2012-05-11 16:52:13]
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25821
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 11:01 pm

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 34):
Obviously, the creditors have told AMR to look at this more closely, and it will do so. This is clearly a blow to Horton and his view on emerging as a stand-alone entity.

I don't think Horton minds merging. He just wants to emerge from bankruptcy stand-alone. And then, once it gets its cost and order and unions in check, it can explore merger options after it's reached a far more efficient and workable cost structure than a during-BK merger would provide.

A union-backed merger would be devastating for AA and solve none of its labor problem; while bringing in US Airways management would threaten to hurt its appeal among loyal/premium fliers by trimming services and perks, an area AA has not cut back in as much as the others.
a.
 
JFKPurser
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:03 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 11:14 pm

There's so much denial on this board I'd think I were floating on a river in Egypt while reading all of it.
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Fri May 11, 2012 11:38 pm

MAH Horton wants to emerge a stand alone so he can set up his golden parachutes for the top 50 exec's....Right now in BK it would have to go before a judge who would frown on this with all the cuts. Horton knows he wont be the ceo for long if employees were able to vote on a ceo he might get 100 votes out of the 70K employees....
 
dave2
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:58 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Sat May 12, 2012 12:00 am

Quoting brons2 (Reply 7):
brons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2924 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted Fri May 11 2012 15:26:38 your local time (3 hours 30 minutes 39 secs ago) and read 2678 times:

AA and US together is a train wreck waiting to happen. I guess as long as the wall street guys get paid though, anything can happen.

I agree with that view. It is my hope that AA emerges and become strong again.
 
incitatus
Posts: 3316
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Sat May 12, 2012 12:02 am

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 35):
We can come back to this once Horton is gone and Parker is CEO of American Airlines.

This sounds much more like a personal grudge than a cool-headed prediction. Changing the CEO of a company with bloated labor costs and merging it with a company referred to as "ugly bride" solves nothing if those bloated labor costs are not addressed.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
User avatar
NWAROOSTER
Posts: 1245
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:29 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Sat May 12, 2012 12:08 am

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 8):

Quoting brons2 (Reply 7):
AA and US together is a train wreck waiting to happen. I guess as long as the wall street guys get paid though, anything can happen.

That pretty much sums it up

US Airways has not yet laid to rest all the problems and issues that were created when USAir and America West merged to form US Airways. Any merger between US Airways and American airlines would simply be a "marriage in hell."
There are way too many issues that would need to be resolved to make this merger anything near successful.
There would be no winners, except the competition.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 6934
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Sat May 12, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 41):
Quoting usairways85 (Reply 8):

Quoting brons2 (Reply 7):
AA and US together is a train wreck waiting to happen. I guess as long as the wall street guys get paid though, anything can happen.

That pretty much sums it up

US Airways has not yet laid to rest all the problems and issues that were created when USAir and America West merged to form US Airways. Any merger between US Airways and American airlines would simply be a "marriage in hell."
There are way too many issues that would need to be resolved to make this merger anything near successful.
There would be no winners, except the competition



I swear people in this site just repeat things without having a real grasp of what happens in a company (this case being US). US can not solve the pilot issue because it is currently in the courts. The other issue would be the f/a's still flying under different contracts, in the event of a merger the APFA would out number AFA and basically AA f/a's would either pass the contract or turn it down. That would basically bring all F/A's into one group.
USAPA and AA pilots have met a couple of times already to try and come to an agreement for all the pilots to be integrated.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4400
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Sat May 12, 2012 12:50 am

This is significant. This is past the exploring all options stages that I'm sorry is wishful thinking and already done in reality. They are getting forced into analyzing more details stages. Clearly there is major pressure behind the scenes on AA from powerful voices. Seems like a really tough merger to me but to pretend this is not significant and gaining major momentum is denial
 
incitatus
Posts: 3316
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Sat May 12, 2012 1:01 am

Quoting chepos (Reply 42):
That would basically bring all F/A's into one group.
USAPA and AA pilots have met a couple of times already to try and come to an agreement for all the pilots to be integrated.

A typical outcome of mergers is capacity "rationalization". Whoever gets stapled at the bottom of the seniority list is under great risk. In the end the AA union votes outnumber US's. Good luck to the US employees.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
ckfred
Posts: 5155
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Sat May 12, 2012 1:41 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 30):
I'm sure he would find it personally satisfying to take over AA, but don't believe for a second that he owes everything he has to working under Crandall.

I know a few business professors who will disagree with you. It's surprising how much influence over a career that a person's first boss has, as well as the influence on the culture.

By the same token, it can take a good ten years to truly change a corporate culture. Parker may come in and wind up beating his head against the wall, because middle managers at AMR/AA have become so ingrained with the Crandall culture.
 
etops1
Posts: 850
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:26 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Sat May 12, 2012 1:53 am

Statement by USAirways today :



USAirways press release:
TEMPE, Ariz., May 11, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- US Airways Group, Inc. (LCC) today issued the following statement:
We are very pleased that the AMR management team and Board of Directors have committed to a process to explore consolidation scenarios that will enhance value for its stakeholders. The Unsecured Creditors Committee should be recognized for its efforts and we look forward to working with the Committee in the process going forward. As previously stated, US Airways has concluded that a combination is in the best interests of employees, customers and the communities of both companies, as well as AMR's creditors and US Airways' investors. We look forward to engaging in the AMR process to demonstrate the significant advantages of our plan to maximize value for all constituents.
US Airways
 
spyglass
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 3:17 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Sat May 12, 2012 3:39 am

Parker is desperate and needs AA a helluva lot more than AA needs his outfit. The only carrier that AA could gain anything meaningful by merging with is AS.....and they'd probably need the Rothschilds' backing to pull that off.
I remember when......a plane trip was a big deal.
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2372
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Sat May 12, 2012 3:43 am

Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 27):
I think this will be another attempt to hold everyone off as it is not in their interest to have a US merger. Horton and most senior VPs will be out of a job. At best they will commit o liking at it but I am sure they will only focus on the cons and more than likely they will be flat out pushed into a merger or sacked by the board.

Why do people keep saying this? Obviously they are going to fight a merger, but if they wind up with one, they'll hardly mind leaving. You need to understand that at their level, it isn't the same as you getting fired from the Burger King and ending up out on the street or getting your car repo'ed because of it.

Guys like Horton will take a well earned million or five on the way out the door, and very likely have an offer for better employment before Parker ever sets foot on Amon Carter Bl. We tend to forget here that as upper mgmt goes, airlines are among the worst paying jobs out there, although the qualifications really aren't different to the same positions in other industries. They may make a little more than FA's do, but you're fooling yourselves if you think they don't look longingly at places like Exxon or Dyn-Corp.
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
"Yeah? That means there's no Oxygen for him Neither..."
 
JFKPurser
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:03 am

RE: AA Creditors Agree To Explore Merger

Sat May 12, 2012 3:45 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 44):
A typical outcome of mergers is capacity "rationalization". Whoever gets stapled at the bottom of the seniority list is under great risk. In the end the AA union votes outnumber US's. Good luck to the US employees.

There is no stapling. It will be a date of hire merge. McCaskill-Bond now stipulates that airline mergers involve a mutually agreed upon, equitable integration of seniority lists. US and AA unions have all agreed to date of hire merge in principal, with fences in place for a seven year period in the pilot group. No details yet about fences in the FA group, the only candidate for that would the the US base at PHX, which will be the most junior AA FA (and pilot) base. BTW --overall, US employees are as pleased with this merge as AA employees are. There is a great deal of enthusiasm building for it.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos