Republic Will Fly Q400 For UAX

n7371f · Mon May 14, 2012 9:04 pm

As a few of us have mused about -- the deal is done on Republic flying the Q400 for United Express. Per a release going out after the close of markets today, the 28 ex-Colgan Q's will fly and also the 4 Q's flying under Frontier will fly as UAX. Pretty much could see this coming with Republic extending the life of the Q at Frontier a few months ago...

LAXintl · Mon May 14, 2012 9:08 pm

Press release is already out...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/republ...es-operate-32-q400s-210000548.html

The 8-year capacity purchase agreement covers 28 ex Colgan Q400s and 4 of Republics own Q400.

Flights will commence in the third quarter contingent on Republic reaching binding agreements with aircraft lessors and maintenance providers.

STT757 · Mon May 14, 2012 9:29 pm

Awesome, does this news change the possible basing of the Q400s away from their current operations (EWR, IAD, IAH) to new locations (DEN?).

LOWS · Mon May 14, 2012 9:30 pm

Great news! I am glad to see the Q400s staying, I don't know why there was any doubt they would. Presumably, the on board service will improve as well.

RL757PVD · Mon May 14, 2012 9:45 pm

Any word on who is going to pick up the flying in places where the S340 was flying. (Non-EAS) like BGM and HPN etc. Itd be nice to see them upgrade BGM to jets.

drerx7 · Mon May 14, 2012 9:54 pm

Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 5):
Any word on who is going to pick up the flying in places where the S340 was flying. (Non-EAS) like BGM and HPN etc. Itd be nice to see them upgrade BGM to jets.

Well, down here in Houston the 135s have been showing up.

ATWZW170 · Mon May 14, 2012 10:03 pm

Amazing news and glad Republic was able to win this business. Eight year contract is even better news.

Can't wait to see where the bases are going to be and what new routes, if any, will see the Q.

m11stephen · Mon May 14, 2012 10:07 pm

Please excuse me if this has already been discussed but why did Colgan drop the contract with United on flying Q400s.... Thanks!

[Edited 2012-05-14 16:55:43 by srbmod]

FRNT787 · Mon May 14, 2012 10:09 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 9):
Please excuse me if this has already been discussed but why did Colgan drop the contract with United on flying Q400s.... Thanks!

Colgan was losing money on the contract. I presume Republic took careful note of the costs associated with flying these for Frontier before bidding. United will likely be paying more for this operation.

gustywinds · Mon May 14, 2012 10:35 pm

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 7):
Can't wait to see where the bases are going to be and what new routes, if any, will see the Q.

FutureFO posted in the Frontier thread that crew domiciles would open in EWR and IAD. I heard the Qs would fly for UA in DEN as early as next month, but the release makes no mention of that, so I don't know.

DashTrash · Tue May 15, 2012 12:30 am

I'm betting on outstation basing and staffing problems. Not as bad as I'd like to see, but still a few staffing problems.

http://rahcontractnow.org/

khpn · Tue May 15, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 4):

Any word on who is going to pick up the flying in places where the S340 was flying. (Non-EAS) like BGM and HPN etc. Itd be nice to see them upgrade BGM to jets.

not sure yet but i would LOVE to see a q400 come to town. no doubt there is enough demand to justify the increase in capacity.

baje427 · Tue May 15, 2012 12:57 am

Will they take additional Q's?

STT757 · Tue May 15, 2012 1:09 am

Quoting baje427 (Reply 12):
Will they take additional Q's?

Hopefully, to add service to DEN and ORD.

Acey559 · Tue May 15, 2012 1:22 am

I wonder how many former Colgan pilots are hopping on over to Republic....at first year pay. I feel bad for all those guys and gals, there isn't much here to be happy about, in my opinion.

F9Animal · Tue May 15, 2012 5:00 am

This was very well planned! Bedford sent a few of his soldiers to Pinnacle.... And this is the outcome. Very well played! Menke should be getting a fat check for this one. Hope the SEC is noticing a pattern here.

DashTrash · Tue May 15, 2012 12:21 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 15):
This was very well planned! Bedford sent a few of his soldiers to Pinnacle.... And this is the outcome. Very well played! Menke should be getting a fat check for this one. Hope the SEC is noticing a pattern here.

This has everything to do with Delta providing DIP financing. They are in the drivers seat, hence Menke's coming departure and Spanjers taking over. Spanjers will do whatever Delta says to do. Dumping all non-DAL flying is part of the DIP deal, just probably not a published part.

rojo · Tue May 15, 2012 2:12 pm

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 14):
I wonder how many former Colgan pilots are hopping on over to Republic....at first year pay. I feel bad for all those guys and gals, there isn't much here to be happy about, in my opinion.

The ones that are going to be furloughed... it is either work for republic or be unemployed!

N353SK · Tue May 15, 2012 2:13 pm

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 8):
Colgan was losing money on the contract. I presume Republic took careful note of the costs associated with flying these for Frontier before bidding. United will likely be paying more for this operation.

Don't worry, Republic is very good at losing money as well.

Seat99A · Tue May 15, 2012 2:47 pm

It is beyond me how Colgan lost money charging $800 for a 50 minute Q400 ride between Rochester and Newark. Despite the premium cost (and the fact that the last evening return flight to Rochester was almost always late or cancelled) the Q400 was always well occupied with nary an empty seat. After hijacking rental car after rental car back to Rochester, I abandoned the flying option and now just drive the 4-1/2 hours (stastically faster than that flight). And you KNOW how much it pains a 'Nutter to take the driving option

jasoncrh · Tue May 15, 2012 2:55 pm

try booking a ticket on UA from IADHPN starting in August. I'm afraid you wont like what you see.

Quoting khpn (Reply 11):
Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 4):

Any word on who is going to pick up the flying in places where the S340 was flying. (Non-EAS) like BGM and HPN etc. Itd be nice to see them upgrade BGM to jets.

not sure yet but i would LOVE to see a q400 come to town. no doubt there is enough demand to justify the increase in capacity.

jasoncrh · Tue May 15, 2012 2:56 pm

the vast majority of people flying on those planes are not paying $800 for the flight. They're probably paying WAY less. connecting through EWR to florida or wherever. The actual prorated amount to that flight is likely pretty small.

Enjoy your drive.

Quoting Seat99A (Reply 19):
It is beyond me how Colgan lost money charging $800 for a 50 minute Q400 ride between Rochester and Newark. Despite the premium cost (and the fact that the last evening return flight to Rochester was almost always late or cancelled) the Q400 was always well occupied with nary an empty seat. After hijacking rental car after rental car back to Rochester, I abandoned the flying option and now just drive the 4-1/2 hours (stastically faster than that flight). And you KNOW how much it pains a 'Nutter to take the driving option

N353SK · Tue May 15, 2012 3:00 pm

Quoting Seat99A (Reply 19):
It is beyond me how Colgan lost money charging $800 for a 50 minute Q400 ride between Rochester and Newark.

Colgan didn't set ticket prices, nor did they collect revenue. Their CPA with Continental said "We'll fly the Dash for $XXX per block hour."

william · Tue May 15, 2012 3:33 pm

So are the Saabs gone from IAH now?

VgnAtl747 · Tue May 15, 2012 4:02 pm

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 20):
try booking a ticket on UA from IADHPN starting in August. I'm afraid you wont like what you see.

I just tried doing a November flight to BGM and it still hows as a Colgan S340.

BGM being my hometown I'm definitely curious to know what UA will do with the service there. I live in RDU now, so travel back to BGM for holidays and vacations is something I do a few times a year.

Bobloblaw · Tue May 15, 2012 4:09 pm

Quoting Seat99A (Reply 19):
It is beyond me how Colgan lost money charging $800 for a 50 minute Q400 ride between Rochester and Newark.

No, UA collected all the revenue. Colgan was responsible for the costs and was paid a flat fee per departure regardless of how many people where on the plane.

Perhaps Colgan didnt charge enough per block hour given the amount of delays and diversions around EWR. Or perhaps they didnt have a built in increase incase of fuel rises.

bhmdiversion · Tue May 15, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 7):
Please excuse me if this has already been discussed but why did Colgan drop the contract with United on flying Q400s.... Thanks!

Colgan did not drop this contract, United took this away from them after all the shenanigans going on in MEM with Pinnacle/Colgan GO.

futureualpilot · Tue May 15, 2012 4:55 pm

From what I hear, United was willing to play ball and renegotiate the terms. Unfortunately, part of Delta being the DIP for Ch. 11 required Pinnacle Corp. to Not fly for any other carriers as DL did not want to subsidize a competitor.

drerx7 · Tue May 15, 2012 5:38 pm

Quoting william (Reply 23):
So are the Saabs gone from IAH now?

Not completely, but they will drawn down by the end of July if I am not mistaken.

LOWS · Tue May 15, 2012 9:01 pm

And will UA move the S340s to someone else to operate from IAD?

drerx7 · Tue May 15, 2012 9:08 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 29):
And will UA move the S340s to someone else to operate from IAD?

That I don't know...

smoot4208 · Tue May 15, 2012 9:58 pm

What I got from it was that no one would be picking up the Saabs. That flying will either be dropped or covered by another express partner. In the case of IAD-HPN, that flying will just be dropped. Same goes for US. The Saab routes are being dropped, not replaced.

LOWS · Wed May 16, 2012 3:41 am

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 31):
What I got from it was that no one would be picking up the Saabs. That flying will either be dropped or covered by another express partner. In the case of IAD-HPN, that flying will just be dropped. Same goes for US. The Saab routes are being dropped, not replaced.

Then someone will pick up the EAS service, I presume?

(I'm thinking IAD-MGW, amongst others)

Mir · Wed May 16, 2012 4:10 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 25):
Perhaps Colgan didnt charge enough per block hour

You don't say....

This is why the current regional airline model is broken. The majors play them off against one another trying to goad them into ever-lower rates, they switch airplanes from one regional to the other, and in doing so save costs by making the employees reapply for their old jobs at lower rates (granted, the seniority system has a hand in that, and it's something that the employees, in general, wanted). It's just not sustainable - eventually they will not be able to find employees (particularly pilots) who will want to bother playing the game, and then they'll be screwed (as will the majors). And they'll deserve it.

-Mir

baje427 · Wed May 16, 2012 4:32 pm

In a previous thread it was mentioned that there was a Q400 fitted with a J class cabin will the others be upgraded as well or will the aircraft revert to being all Y class seating?

gigneil · Wed May 16, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 15):
This was very well planned! Bedford sent a few of his soldiers to Pinnacle.... And this is the outcome. Very well played! Menke should be getting a fat check for this one. Hope the SEC is noticing a pattern here.

What?

NS

Flighty · Wed May 16, 2012 6:26 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 33):
This is why the current regional airline model is broken. The majors play them off against one another trying to goad them into ever-lower rates, they switch airplanes from one regional to the other, and in doing so save costs by making the employees reapply for their old jobs at lower rates (granted, the seniority system has a hand in that, and it's something that the employees, in general, wanted). It's just not sustainable - eventually they will not be able to find employees (particularly pilots) who will want to bother playing the game, and then they'll be screwed (as will the majors). And they'll deserve it.

I can sympathize with especially the employees, but life isn't always fair. The majors went through an overcapacity / excessive competitor era and so now are the regionals. Nobody did anything wrong here; it just happens.

Given how decentralized the regional industry is, it is hard to imagine how any "collapse" or wider disuption could occur. If one or two companies fail, so much the better for everyone else. Hence I would argue it is very "sustainable," although not at money losing rates... that much is true.

Mir · Wed May 16, 2012 6:51 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 36):
Nobody did anything wrong here; it just happens.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. The majors weren't forced to treat their regional carriers like hookers - that was a conscious business decision, based on short-term benefit without regard to long-term sustainability.

Now put yourself in the position of someone who wants to go into pilot training. You see the sort of job stability that you can expect at the regionals. You see the amount of time and effort you're going to have to put in to get trained and get enough experience to get hired at a regional. And you wonder "is it really worth it?" It is really worth it to spend $50,000 on training, above and beyond college education, to take a job that pays next to nothing starting off, and that has the potential to set you back to paying next to nothing several times throughout your career? And a lot of people are saying it isn't, and they're finding other things to do with their lives. Well, if you're a major airline, there goes your pool of future employees, and as soon as the massive number of pilots approaching retirement age start start getting forced out, there are going to be staffing problems, and big ones.

What the majors have a problem understanding is that those they have consciously chosen to screw over (the regional employees) are their future employees. That's not a recipe for success, and it's certainly not a recipe for good things for the traveling public.

-Mir

floridaflyboy · Tue May 22, 2012 12:39 pm

Quoting baje427 (Reply 34):
In a previous thread it was mentioned that there was a Q400 fitted with a J class cabin will the others be upgraded as well or will the aircraft revert to being all Y class seating?

They will operate in an F/Y+/Y configuration. Colgan had begun the mods and that will continue.

TWA1985 · Tue May 22, 2012 1:59 pm

Does anyone know when they will be loaded into the schedule. I'm anxious to book a flight on one of these!

bhmdiversion · Tue May 22, 2012 2:41 pm

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 27):
From what I hear, United was willing to play ball and renegotiate the terms. Unfortunately, part of Delta being the DIP for Ch. 11 required Pinnacle Corp. to Not fly for any other carriers as DL did not want to subsidize a competitor.

Negative Ghostrider... The whole DL thing came after UA cut them like a bad habit.

LOWS · Tue May 22, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 39):
Does anyone know when they will be loaded into the schedule. I'm anxious to book a flight on one of these!

The Q400s are already in service with UA. Or do you mean with J and Y+?

TWA1985 · Tue May 22, 2012 4:49 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 41):
The Q400s are already in service with UA. Or do you mean with J and Y+?

I guess I am referring to the Republic aircraft. I hope they make their way to ORD.

Rdh3e · Tue May 22, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 15):
This was very well planned! Bedford sent a few of his soldiers to Pinnacle.... And this is the outcome. Very well played! Menke should be getting a fat check for this one. Hope the SEC is noticing a pattern here.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 35):
What?

Neil, this guy is on about Menke in every single Frontier thread, safest to just ignore him before he blows the whole thread up.

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 26):
Colgan did not drop this contract, United took this away from them after all the shenanigans going on in MEM with Pinnacle/Colgan GO.

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 40):
Negative Ghostrider... The whole DL thing came after UA cut them like a bad habit.

I think you've got your facts confused. Pinnacle wanted to be released from the contract because they were losing hand over fist on the contract. One release I believe said they were to lose $100M over the life of the contract because of the low rates they had bid.

Quoting LOWS (Reply 32):
Then someone will pick up the EAS service, I presume?

Those markets were contracted between Colgan and the US GOV so it's Colgan's responsibility to fill them if they don't want to be in breach or whatever. UA doesn't have the responsibility of backfilling that flying.

Quoting baje427 (Reply 34):
In a previous thread it was mentioned that there was a Q400 fitted with a J class cabin will the others be upgraded as well or will the aircraft revert to being all Y class seating?

The process of refitting the Q's had already begun in the UA fleet. There were several that have been refit with a small F cabin and Y+. UA is retaining 28 of the 30 shells that Colgan was operating, and I'd presume that includes the aircraft that have been refit. I'd expect that they continue the refit as scheduled.

Currently I believe the refitted Q's are all based in EWR.

FutureFO · Tue May 22, 2012 6:51 pm

Our first base for the Q's is DEN. We have heard a rumour of PIT being a base as well.

gigneil · Tue May 22, 2012 9:03 pm

I'm excited and aroused and simultaneously furious.

The Q is perfect from DEN to a variety of destinations in Colorado - like COS, clearly. The only reason F9 couldn't make it work is because United competed with jets. Now that there's no competition, it will be great and drive down costs at DEN - precisely what UA needs.

That being said, its also far better from IAD and IAH to a lot more places that are flown with jets that are near-er by than the average DEN stage length.

They need a much larger fleet of Q400s.

NS

STT757 · Tue May 22, 2012 9:06 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 45):
They need a much larger fleet of Q400s.

Absolutely, the major routes under 500 miles currenlty flown by ERJ-170s and CR-7s should be replaced by Q400s. Freeing up the 70 seat RJs to replace the 50 seaters on routes 500+ miles.

floridaflyboy · Wed May 23, 2012 4:15 pm

http://www.avionics-intelligence.com...-turboprop-regional-airliners.html

Looks like the groundwork is starting to be put in place for this operation. Nine-year heavy maintenance agreement with Bombardier.

baje427 · Wed May 23, 2012 4:25 pm

How much more Q's do you guys beleive would be suitable ?

Quoting gigneil (Reply 45):
They need a much larger fleet of Q400s.

Rdh3e · Wed May 23, 2012 7:51 pm

Quoting baje427 (Reply 48):
How much more Q's do you guys beleive would be suitable ?

Obviously it's a matter of opinion, but if you were to use the average utilization of the Q's today, and wanted to cover EVERY route that UAX flies between 300-600 miles, they'd need about 200. That being said, there are obviously a ton of routes in that mileage that don't warrant the Q's capacity. Draw conclusions as necessary, because the water only gets murkier the more details we looks at

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