Quoting yellowtail (Reply 47):

Apology accepted, but there is no need to apologize, I understand now how you meant it.

BW does not treat all Guyanese badly, I fly regularly with them and I would not change to the carriers flying to GEO right now. There are a few problems with their ground staff, but I feel it is a problem all round with BW.

GUYAIR707

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 49): After the rollercoaster that Air Jamaica and BWIA/Caribbean operations have been for years, not sure if any private group would venture to run a new Air Jamaica (its name may be its major asset) or a "TrinidAir" with the current level of government interference. Maybe there could be people, not only on Trinidad but also on Barbados and in Guyana who may like the idea of having its own airline.

I admit it's probably pie-in-the-sky thinking, but wouldn't a set of lean airlines representing each country (T&T, Barbados, Guyana, Jamaica) forming an alliance be more efficient? Fewer planes, less duplication of service, fewer employees to pay, etc...plus, it would spread out the risk among the different nations benefiting from national air service.

Imagine a new BWIA, plus a Barbados airline (Redjet?), a Guyana airline (GuyanAir?), Air Jamaica, LIAT, maybe Conviasa thrown in...instead of a Carribbean Airline, you'd have an All-Carribbean Alliance.

Quoting N202PA (Reply 51): Imagine a new BWIA, plus a Barbados airline (Redjet?), a Guyana airline (GuyanAir?), Air Jamaica, LIAT, maybe Conviasa thrown in...instead of a Carribbean Airline, you'd have an All-Carribbean Alliance.

Realistically, that would take a miracle of cooperation. But you are thinking Grupo TA on a smaller scale.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 45):

http://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/20...-to-send-guyanese-in-ny-to-hotels/

http://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/20...bean-airlines-boycott-trini-goods/

http://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/20...bean-airlines-boycott-trini-goods/

http://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/20...-competition-to-caribbean-airlines


Just a sampling of comments made by Guyanese. The most caaustic ones are likely to have been made by Canada based Guyanese who are intransit and thereforee more edxposeed to Piarco.

Quoting N202PA (Reply 51): Imagine a new BWIA, plus a Barbados airline (Redjet?), a Guyana airline (GuyanAir?), Air Jamaica, LIAT, maybe Conviasa thrown in...instead of a Carribbean Airline, you'd have an All-Carribbean Alliance.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 52): Realistically, that would take a miracle of cooperation. But you are thinking Grupo TA on a smaller scale.

Funny, how Taca and LAN are able to make such an alliance work. It would be great in the Caribbean and maybe the only way for us to survive against AA. But for us, it requires cooperation on a level I do not think is possible.

Quoting JM017 (Reply 54): Funny, how Taca and LAN are able to make such an alliance work. It would be great in the Caribbean and maybe the only way for us to survive against AA. But for us, it requires cooperation on a level I do not think is possible.

Well, that is what many have attempted to do over the decades, most recent being CAL/JM. But, we've seen the outright rebellion from our indigenous people concerning this issue of amalgamating our airlines into one entity. IMO, CAL/JM is light years away from being an outright failure. I believe the right foundation has been set with respect to the deal that was hammered out, but the current political forces are undermining its potential. That said, once those political forces are replaced, I expect the arrangement to work. When they will be replaced? Let's hope 2015 or sooner.

Quoting N202PA (Reply 51): I admit it's probably pie-in-the-sky thinking, but wouldn't a set of lean airlines representing each country (T&T, Barbados, Guyana, Jamaica) forming an alliance be more efficient? Fewer planes, less duplication of service, fewer employees to pay, etc...plus, it would spread out the risk among the different nations benefiting from national air service.

I actually like that idea. Let every major Caribbean country have its own airline, free of government interference, to form an alliance code-sharing routes/flights and trying to keep fleet commonality.
Probably worth adding Belize to the list.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 52): But you are thinking Grupo TA on a smaller scale.

Do you mean Grupo TACA before the Salvadoreans bought their Central American competitors or started its own airlines in neighbouring countries? Like the days when Aviateca, TACA, SAHSA/TAN, NICA, Lacsa and COPA (independently owned airlines) used to code-share and keep a FF programme together?

Quoting JM017 (Reply 54): Funny, how Taca and LAN are able to make such an alliance work.

Neither TACA nor LAN are alliances, both TACA and LAN have its own operations in different countries. Same as CM owns Colombian P5.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 56): I actually like that idea. Let every major Caribbean country have its own airline, free of government interference, to form an alliance code-sharing routes/flights and trying to keep fleet commonality. Probably worth adding Belize to the list.

That's what I'm thinking. Maybe even go a step further and combine air carrier cooperation and fleet commonality (via ordering together as one unit) via common treaty between the nations. They could standardize around one medium-to-short haul jet aircraft (ie, 737-700 or -800) and one small island-hopping aircraft (ie, Dash-8 or ATR-42). Add a codeshare/marketing agreement with an American carrier and it could make some sense.

The main question is which of these nations actually has the cash to create their own airlines?

Quoting N202PA (Reply 57): The main question is which of these nations actually has the cash to create their own airlines?

IMHO, if national funds are going to be used to start up a local airline (that means future government interference) the project is doomed to fail from the start.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 58): IMHO, if national funds are going to be used to start up a local airline (that means future government interference) the project is doomed to fail from the start.

I would agree, but I'm talking in terms of investors within those nations - because if this were to happen, I can't imagine the cash is going to come from outside (ie, US, EU etc.).

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 56): Neither TACA nor LAN are alliances, both TACA and LAN have its own operations in different countries. Same as CM owns Colombian P5.

Got it. I was thinking more like....

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 56): the days when Aviateca, TACA, SAHSA/TAN, NICA, Lacsa and COPA (independently owned airlines) used to code-share and keep a FF programme together?

Or....

Quoting N202PA (Reply 57): ... Maybe even go a step further and combine air carrier cooperation and fleet commonality (via ordering together as one unit) via common treaty between the nations. They could standardize around one medium-to-short haul jet aircraft (ie, 737-700 or -800) and one small island-hopping aircraft (ie, Dash-8 or ATR-42). Add a codeshare/marketing agreement with an American carrier and it could make some sense.

Unfortunately....

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 58): IMHO, if national funds are going to be used to start up a local airline (that means future government interference) the project is doomed to fail from the start.

Quoting JM017 (Reply 54): Funny, how Taca and LAN are able to make such an alliance work. It would be great in the Caribbean and maybe the only way for us to survive against AA. But for us, it requires cooperation on a level I do not think is possible.

The problem with the Caribbean in my opinion is pride. As much as I also would like to see such an alliance, the pride of each islands (some more than others) is what kills co-operation on any level.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 56): Quoting JM017 (Reply 54): Funny, how Taca and LAN are able to make such an alliance work. Neither TACA nor LAN are alliances, both TACA and LAN have its own operations in different countries. Same as CM owns Colombian P5.

I think what JM017 means is that both TACA and LAN have set up subsidiaries in several countries across South America and Central America.

A388

My latest aircraft photos in the database are the following:

View Large View Medium Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography

View Large View Medium Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography

A388

TA still uses codes from Aviateca, Lacsa etc in its day to day operations....

BTW, why is a.net acting all screwy and slow to load when you try to open threads....

Quoting N202PA (Reply 51): admit it's probably pie-in-the-sky thinking, but wouldn't a set of lean airlines representing each country (T&T, Barbados, Guyana, Jamaica) forming an alliance be more efficient?

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 52): Realistically, that would take a miracle of cooperation. But you are thinking Grupo TA on a smaller scale

Quoting JM017 (Reply 54): Funny, how Taca and LAN are able to make such an alliance work

GDP of Brasil, Chile, Peru, Argentina, Columbia, Peru, Ecuador, Dom Republic (more or less Taca/Lan AAKAIK) is about $3.6 Trillion if I got my 0's right from Wiki.

GDP of Jamaica, T&T, Guyana, Barbados is about 1.5% of that at $45 Billion. That is smaller than either Dominican Republic or Ecuador which are by far the smallest of the Taca/Lan team!

I am not sure which point to highlight here - but comparing to the LAN and Tacas of the world seems misleading. There is also a bit of scale and relevence that could be considered during some of the more animated discussions I've seen both in A.net and over the years of travel and work in the English Caribbean - basically, the combination of the 4 main Anglo-Caribbean countries make up a pretty small secondary market for anything anywhere else, so more cooperation probably wouldn't hurt - in every industy!
As well, I am completely minimising the value of tourist traffic to the regional airline industry, since it would seem silly to try to service that with local airlines if only because there is no use for the aircraft for about half the year! (The US and Eurpoean airlines move the capacity seasonally...where would BW be able to do that - and why would JM have thought they could?!).

Still, until there is a little more consistency by all involved governments, the BW / JM / LI / Redjet sagas will probably continue, and Guyana will keep cycling through various companies on the GEO to MIA/JFK/YYZ routes.

(Not that it is worth any more than what you are paying for it (!), my view is that the 4 (Jam, T&T, Guy, Barbados) would be best served by two airlines operating under the 'same' rules without differences in Gov't support or rules for the 'home team'. Level the playing field, let things get sorted out without obstruction or preference, and two competitors will provide the choices needed. If one goes under, the role will be re-filled by someone else, as long as the field is level!.)

A regional carrier is a pie in the sky idea the current leaders in the region are not mature enough for this to materialise perhaps in the next decade it might come to fruition. The CCJ is located in Trinidad and they are yet to join things like this point to lack or drive for integration. On another note CAL sent the ATR72 to BGI on the 447 POS-BGI night run.

Noticed PY 737 in BGI today was this a charter?

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/...__operational_risk_-152179785.html

Seems like CAL will be getting a bailout from the GORTT. Questions surround the use of funds, and how quickly they were spent. The article says that the Ex-Chair of the board made "undertakings" without management approval, in addition, they are looking at the costs of increased flights. I am not sure where the additional 'Redjet and Ezjet' parallel flights contributed to this red ink, but I am sure they are part of it.

It was assumed that the JM part of the ops would not be profitable immediately, but why did CAL perform so badly?? It seems reducing the fuel subsidy and then having to bail out CAL is a bit of "6 of 1" and "half a dozen" of the other, especially how it seems that the fuel subsidy reduction was done after the performance of CAL was known.

GUYAIR707

Quoting baje427 (Reply 66): Noticed PY 737 in BGI today was this a charter?

Charter for the Mexican Summit being held in BGI.

Posted a trip report from when I went to FLL to do the Royal Caribbean cruise in 2008:

Trip From The Past: MNI-ANU-KIN-FLL, RC Cruise (by 817Dreamliiner May 20 2012 in Trip Reports)

Unfortunately my pics arent showing up even though I linked them properly, however I eventually found the problem, but was too late to edit the post so I included a link to the photos. Hope you guys like it!

Also ill be doing MAN-LGW-ANU-MNI in about a month and ill do a trip report on that also.

Quoting windian425 (Reply 68):

Thanks for the info

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 67):

What I dont understand is whether AJs losses of $38MM is part of CALs losses of $53MM or in addition to this amount. Also Ian Brunton led the negotiations for the ATRs, and why an order for 9 planes was madeI If the $53MM is only from the POS base why did these losses suddenly increase?

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 69):

These days only flymontserrat is operating the route ANU-MNI ?

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 72): These days only flymontserrat is operating the route ANU-MNI ?

We also have SVG air on the route as well which is operated by ABM air which I think operate twice daily along with the flymontserrat flights. Not too familiar with flym's current frequency since it changes ever so often and this is due to varying loads (and sometimes none at all)

Quoting guyanam (Reply 71): Also Ian Brunton led the negotiations for the ATRs, and why an order for 9 planes was made

Why did CAL go after the ATR-72 as a replacement for the Q300? The capacity is greater...does inter-island flying (including the short hops to Tobago) really warrant an increase in aircraft size? If anything, I would have thought a smaller aircraft (ie, Saab 340/Dash-8-200) with frequent flights would have been called for.

Quoting N202PA (Reply 74): Why did CAL go after the ATR-72 as a replacement for the Q300? The capacity is greater...does inter-island flying (including the short hops to Tobago) really warrant an increase in aircraft size? If anything, I would have thought a smaller aircraft (ie, Saab 340/Dash-8-200) with frequent flights would have been called for.

Why chose an aircraft type that is increasingly difficult to maintain due to parts being difficult to obtain. Why chose older aircraft types to replace their Dash-8-300's? Which airline has replaced an aircraft type with an older aircraft type?

A388

Quoting A388 (Reply 75): Why chose an aircraft type that is increasingly difficult to maintain due to parts being difficult to obtain. Why chose older aircraft types to replace their Dash-8-300's? Which airline has replaced an aircraft type with an older aircraft type?

Fair enough, but I was thinking in terms of capacity. Why fly a bigger aircraft unless there is a market for that many seats to most of your destinations?

Quoting N202PA (Reply 76): Fair enough, but I was thinking in terms of capacity. Why fly a bigger aircraft unless there is a market for that many seats to most of your destinations?

Whether a bigger aircraft is needed or not on most of their destinations, is something that needs to be proven and I think Caribbean Airlines has this answer. I assume they know why they have chosen the the larger ATR72-600 over the ATR42-600. Airlines really don't have another option in the 50-seat range other than the ATR if they want the most advanced turboprop on the market now.

A388

Quoting A388 (Reply 77): I assume they know why they have chosen the the larger ATR72-600 over the ATR42-600. Airlines really don't have another option in the 50-seat range other than the ATR if they want the most advanced turboprop on the market now.

Agreed, the question in my mind is whether the fuel burn of the larger ATR makes sense for the routes they fly versus the smaller one (or the Q300). Are they really going to expect to gain 18 passengers per flight on the POS-Tobago run?

Does anyone know what the LF is like for some of the routes on which CAL uses props?

Quoting N202PA (Reply 78): Agreed, the question in my mind is whether the fuel burn of the larger ATR makes sense for the routes they fly versus the smaller one (or the Q300). Are they really going to expect to gain 18 passengers per flight on the POS-Tobago run? Does anyone know what the LF is like for some of the routes on which CAL uses props?

All valid points. Having insight into the load factors of the routes where the Dash-8-300 was/is used, can give us more clarity.

A388

Quoting N202PA (Reply 78): Agreed, the question in my mind is whether the fuel burn of the larger ATR makes sense for the routes they fly versus the smaller one (or the Q300). Are they really going to expect to gain 18 passengers per flight on the POS-Tobago run? Does anyone know what the LF is like for some of the routes on which CAL uses props?

As much as I preferred the choice of the Dash8-Q400 over the ATR72-600, over the last few months, the ATR has proven to burn much less fuel than the current Q300s at CAL.

Regarding load factor, if they could get a 100 seat prop plane, they would still need extra seats on the POS-TAB route.
The domestic traffic is insane, and at some of the most unusual times too.
Regionally, CCS tends to be a high load flight to/from POS also, and there are times when I feel like there can't be enough flights between POS and BGI.
I also know of some staff members who struggle to get vacant non-rev seats on flights to SLU, especially approaching the weekend. I don't have any info on GND, however.

So yes, I think the extra 18 seats are well justified.

Other than the Q400 CAL really had no other options to replace the Q300 I believe CAL added additional flights on the POS-TAB route recently which would indicate there is sufficient demand to fill the additional seats of the ATR. In addition, has it not been prooven the Q400 has lower CASM than the Q300 I would assume the same would apply for the ATR which burns less fuel than the Q400.

Quoting A388 (Reply 79):

Quoting Inbound (Reply 80): Regarding load factor, if they could get a 100 seat prop plane, they would still need extra seats on the POS-TAB route. The domestic traffic is insane, and at some of the most unusual times too.

Quoting baje427 (Reply 81): Other than the Q400 CAL really had no other options to replace the Q300 I believe CAL added additional flights on the POS-TAB route recently which would indicate there is sufficient demand to fill the additional seats of the ATR. In addition, has it not been prooven the Q400 has lower CASM than the Q300 I would assume the same would apply for the ATR which burns less fuel than the Q400.

Interesting information; thanks!

Quoting N202PA (Reply 76):

The TAB route is noted for shortages of airlift especiallt at peak periods. With 15-20 flights daily getting a larger plane simply means cutting back on flights. Aside from that there is a daily flight to CCS and 3/daily to BGI. Both strong markets out of POS. Indeed with the demise of Redjet there might even be seat shortages to BGI. Sumer is going to be a real problem. The flights to GND and SLU can be withdrawn if loads arent good. I hear conflicting reports on these latter routes.

So we all conclude that the extra seats on the ATR72-600 fits Caribbean Airlines well. Now let's put those ATR's to good use to Curacao as well 

A388

Quoting A388 (Reply 84):

Yes please, the fares from POS to CUR are very high, even with PY and LI on this market, DAE is talking talking and taling until now... and I'm also waiting for the CUR-MAO route! 

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 85): Yes please, the fares from POS to CUR are very high, even with PY and LI on this market, DAE is talking talking and taling until now... and I'm also waiting for the CUR-MAO route!

And POS-CUR return with CM is: ____

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 85): DAE is talking talking and taling until now...

Just to be clear, DAE never has talked about starting POS flights, if that is what you mean. Both Insel Air and DAE have expansion plans and both need their time to make it happen.

CM will start flights to CUR soon. Hopefully that will bring many more South American tourists to CUR.

A388

Very strong rumour around LI is that an announcement will be made very soon about acquiring Q400's. Seem's there will be a mix of 300's/400's in the future. Exact numbers unknown at this time.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 88): Very strong rumour around LI is that an announcement will be made very soon about acquiring Q400's. Seem's there will be a mix of 300's/400's in the future. Exact numbers unknown at this time.

Interesting, nice to see they are planning to get new aircraft finally, the current dashs have been around for a while now. If this rumor is confirmed I wonder how many they plan on getting? Either way I guess we'll know eventually.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 89): Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 88): Very strong rumour around LI is that an announcement will be made very soon about acquiring Q400's. Seem's there will be a mix of 300's/400's in the future. Exact numbers unknown at this time. Interesting, nice to see they are planning to get new aircraft finally, the current dashs have been around for a while now. If this rumor is confirmed I wonder how many they plan on getting? Either way I guess we'll know eventually.

If LI will send the Q400 to CUR than I'm all for it!!!

A388

As much as I like the Q400 from an aesthetics point of view the ATR is a better aircraft for LI ops in addition, where will LI get the funds? I assume these wont be new build Q400's. How many Q's can fit SLU simultaneously the Q400 is almost as long as a 737. Unless Li plans to operate ANU-KIN with the Q I dont see why they would go Q400.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 88):

Quoting baje427 (Reply 91): Unless Li plans to operate ANU-KIN with the Q I dont see why they would go Q400.

You have said the reason yourself ---> financing. Even though the Q400 might be less preferable for LI it remains the cheapest option for LI, from practically all financial point of views. They already operate the Dash-8 so training their pilots for the larger Q400 will require minimal training, meaning minimal costs. The organisation in its entirety will probably need only minimal adjustments so LI will safe on that area as well. It's a matter of weighing the pros and the cons. I can see why LI would want to go for the Q400, even though it's the less ideal aircraft for them.

A388

[Edited 2012-05-22 13:35:52]

Quoting A388 (Reply 87): Just to be clear, DAE never has talked about starting POS flights, if that is what you mean

And just to be clear I was talking about CUR-MAO with DAE, so far haven't seen a move on MAO airport, and they've been marketing on the FB page for months, just changing the subject anyone here from CUR airport my congratulations for former CM supervisor in Aruba Carl Maduro, he'll be the CUR manager for CM. CONGRATS CARL!

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 86): And POS-CUR return with CM is: ____

lat time I checked with LIAT it was 170 usd one way....

I bought for my aunt, grandma and cousin MAO-PTY/ 3 days for shopping -CUR back to MAO, 700 USD each! cheap I'd say, thank you CM.

[Edited 2012-05-22 15:49:44]

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 93): And just to be clear I was talking about CUR-MAO with DAE, so far haven't seen a move on MAO airport, and they've been marketing on the FB page for months,

I see, unfortunately that's the way airlines work in the Caribbean. Sad but true.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 93): I bought for my aunt, grandma and cousin MAO-PTY/ 3 days for shopping -CUR back to MAO, 700 USD each! cheap I'd say, thank you CM.

And that's the attractiveness of CM in my opinion   

A388

Quoting A388 (Reply 87): Just to be clear, DAE never has talked about starting POS flights, if that is what you mean. Both Insel Air and DAE have expansion plans and both need their time to make it happen.

Well, they never really talked about it, but they do seem to implicitly state their intentions on facebook. There was a "future" route map with all destinations to be served in their expansion glitz. MIA along with POS were included in it. As you know, they will be starting MIA service June 1. I guess it's a wait and see situation with them concerning further expansion.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 88): Very strong rumour around LI is that an announcement will be made very soon about acquiring Q400's. Seem's there will be a mix of 300's/400's in the future. Exact numbers unknown at this time.

Nice! Keep us updated! The Q400 can open up a couple new route possibilities for LI. But, is it a truly long-term feasible option in LI's network? Heard it's a real badass plane to drive though....

Quoting Inbound (Reply 80):

Any word on the disappointing baggage rumours and failure of the aircraft to climb to efficient altitudes? I'm honestly baffled by this. Something just does not add up.

Quoting Inbound (Reply 80): I also know of some staff members who struggle to get vacant non-rev seats on flights to SLU, especially approaching the weekend.

So, that said, the reports of single digit numbers on SLU flights on a regular basis is an exaggeration?

Quoting BW424 (Reply 95): Well, they never really talked about it, but they do seem to implicitly state their intentions on facebook. There was a "future" route map with all destinations to be served in their expansion glitz. MIA along with POS were included in it. As you know, they will be starting MIA service June 1. I guess it's a wait and see situation with them concerning further expansion

That is true, we have to wait and see how and at what pace their route network will expand.

A388

Quoting BW424 (Reply 95): Any word on the disappointing baggage rumours and failure of the aircraft to climb to efficient altitudes? I'm honestly baffled by this. Something just does not add up.

I wonder about this as well, the baggage might be understandable, but the failure to climb to a decent altitude just doesn't sound right to me.

Is this in regards to the ATR? I cant imagine getting to 7000 feet between POS-TAB should be an issue is the ATR not more capable than the Q300?. Speaking of capability for those who work on the Dash how is it?

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 97):

Quoting baje427 (Reply 98): Is this in regards to the ATR? I cant imagine getting to 7000 feet between POS-TAB should be an issue is the ATR not more capable than the Q300?. Speaking of capability for those who work on the Dash how is it?

Yes we are talking about the ATR, but you make a valid point, they shouldn't need to be climbing higher than 7000-8000 for POS-TAB which is only 45nm according to great cirle mapper. Also as far as I know they dont fly them far enough to require higher altitudes above 15000. They only fly them to TAB, CCS and BGI correct?