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xpfg
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SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 5:37 am

Very sad day for the 621 employees affected by this move. SkyWest has some of the very best ground personnel I have ever met and it is finally coming to an end at many stations. Many of these people were at these stations for over 10 years.

Just announced today within the company, 16 stations have lost their ground contracts. This will result in full station closures. The SkyWest stations closing will be: BFL, BUR, EUG, FAR, FAT, MEM, MFR, MRY, MSO, PDX, PSP, RAP, RDM, SAN, SBA and SEA.

LAX and SFO are rumored to be next on the chopping block next year, as that's when SFO's contract expires for ramp personnel (customer service personell lost their jobs last year in SFO). LAX has been granted an extension for this year as the two LAX and SFO stations will be on one bid at the same time next year.

It's amazing to see United not care about customer service so much these days. Truly sad! Some of these stations will be taken over by Eagle, others will be taken over by companies not associated to airlines at all.

[Edited 2012-05-17 22:40:54]

[Edited 2012-05-17 22:42:02]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 6:26 am

In the eyes of the major (United in this case), Skywest is merely one of many potential ground handling vendors. Contracts come and go.

So I don’t see anything unusual with UA opting to go with other vendors. Just as Skywest managed to pick business up over the years, including in places it barely had any flight operations presence, here they are losing some contracts.

Its part of the biz and happens globally. Ultimately OO's ground handling future rest in its own hands. Either it can come up with competitive proposals or not.
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platinumfoota
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 6:34 am

Any specifcs on who will be doing below the wing operations at each station?
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AlnessW
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 6:40 am

Wow! Lots of stations being closed.

UA Express has a pretty good sized operation in PDX. Aside from some of the UA hubs - SFO, LAX, DEN, etc - they also serve the rest of Oregon. Who will be operating these flights when OO leaves?
 
HPRamper
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 6:52 am

It's not the flights that are leaving, it's the ground support. They will be ground handled by someone else. At PDX, probably ATS or Menzies.
 
AlnessW
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 7:03 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 4):
It's not the flights that are leaving, it's the ground support.

Right, sorry if I didn't specify that in my question.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 4):
They will be ground handled by someone else. At PDX, probably ATS or Menzies.

Thanks for clarifying. I remember B6 at PDX used to be handled by UA until they switched to ATS in 2010, I believe. Hard to remember that B6 used to be in the E concourse...

Now, do you happen to know what will change for the UA Express flights with a different ground handler? Could it mean airbridges? I once heard that OO did not want to pay for airbridge use at PDX.
 
xpfg
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 7:17 am

Eagle will be doing some of the handling in stations like SAN and SBA. Not sure which others they won, but I'd assume FAT as well.

I guess the two I'm most shocked about are FAT and MRY. I know MRY has been shrunk down overtime, but OO has quite a number of station employees there, including frontline representatives that interact with HDQ. FAT is a big OO base, so my shock there is pretty natural, as the employees there are very senior and it's a close-knit "family" of sorts. In the end, family doesn't equate to good profits, but I can't help but think the morale at OO is anything but high over this and that it may have adverse effects on customer satisfaction performance wise.

It's sad, and that's all I'm saying.
 
HPRamper
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 1:03 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 5):
Now, do you happen to know what will change for the UA Express flights with a different ground handler? Could it mean airbridges? I once heard that OO did not want to pay for airbridge use at PDX.

Probably won't be much of a material change from what is currently going on - the -200s can easily be worked without an airbridge.

I heard about this from an OO guy out there a couple months ago but it's still sad to see.
 
toltommy
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 2:07 pm

Quoting xpfg (Thread starter):
It's amazing to see United not care about customer service so much these days.

How does a change in ground handling vendor mean UA doesn't care about customer service? UA sets performance standards, and monitors the vendors closely. If UA can get the same (or better) performance for less, it means UA can stay in a market that might not have been profitable, or had a smaller margin than preferred.
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skyrat
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 2:14 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Its part of the biz and happens globally. Ultimately OO's ground handling future rest in its own hands. Either it can come up with competitive proposals or not.

Or withdraw when the price drops to a point where they won't make money. When they lost the midwest stations several years ago, UA told them if they dropped their proposal by 30% they could keep the stations. SkyWest decided to let the stations go as they would not be making money on the stations. It's a smart move as there are companies out there that are always willing to do it for less, no matter what it does to the product. It's a horrible process as it completely ends any thought of a career as a ground handler since the work will be bid out every so many years. But who cares as long as ticket prices are $100 right?
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 2:41 pm

The EV side (Legacy XE stations) of Skywest Inc is also losing stations. TYS, CRP, LBB, ABE, AMA, BHM, BRO, LIT, LFT, LRD, MHT, MOB, MEM, and SDF. It's funny. The worst stations in the system are staffed by Air Wisconsin. Obviously they are cheaper, but United is definitely going to get what they pay for.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 5):
Now, do you happen to know what will change for the UA Express flights with a different ground handler? Could it mean airbridges? I once heard that OO did not want to pay for airbridge use at PDX.

This is true. That's why they stopped using the E-5 gate. Maybe with this news, Skywest will withdraw the 120's from PDX. That will leave just the RJ's. They can move the RJ's to the mainline gates and have us (mainline employees) work them. I never understood how they parked the RJ's down on E-6 and made the people walk to the Terminal in the Portland wet winters.

We have a new Station Manager now. He is all for getting new contracts, not like our last one. You will probably see UA Mainline working Air Canada Express soon also.
 
mcg
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 4:03 pm

I must say I've found the OO folks in MSO to be absolutely outstanding. I thank them for many years of excellent service. I always thought it made perfect sense that they handled both UA and DL work as it allowed for a very flexible and efficient operation. OO lost the DL work about a year ago and now has lost UA. I think that's kind of sad.

Thanks again OO team in MSO!
 
Rdh3e
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting xpfg (Thread starter):
This will result in full station closures.

As noted already, closure of OO GH ops at the station, the operation will still be there. Many of the affected employees may even be offered positions at the incoming handler, however, knowing a few OO employees they will probably decline and look elsewhere.

Quoting xpfg (Thread starter):
It's amazing to see United not care about customer service so much these days.

Huh? This is nonsensical.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 7):
I heard about this from an OO guy out there a couple months ago but it's still sad to see.

Considering this wasn't decided until a couple weeks ago he was just guessing.

Quoting skyrat (Reply 9):
Or withdraw when the price drops to a point where they won't make money.

Exactly, they are facing a lot of wage pressure. So they are just retreating from markets where they can't make money. It makes perfect sense.

Quoting skyrat (Reply 9):
It's a horrible process as it completely ends any thought of a career as a ground handler since the work will be bid out every so many years.

Yeah, it is unfortunate, but ultimately when you have companies like Regional Elite etc whose strategy is a 30% attrition in order to keep fresh blood and bottom wages, it's going to be hard to compete with them.

Quoting xjet (Reply 10):
The worst stations in the system are staffed by Air Wisconsin.

Say what? Evidence please.
 
N353SK
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 4:05 pm

Quoting toltommy (Reply 8):
How does a change in ground handling vendor mean UA doesn't care about customer service?

Because it's always a change towards a cheaper, lower-tier contractor. Case in point would be the UAX operation (Air Wisconsin) in Dulles. One of the worst run stations in the UAX system, and it's a hub.
 
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ADent
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 13):
Quoting xpfg (Thread starter):
It's amazing to see United not care about customer service so much these days.

Huh? This is nonsensical.

If the new guys are 30% cheaper then it is likely that the quality of service will drop (due to fewer people or people paid less or both). However it is not necessarily true and service could rise.

It has been my experience as mainline jobs went from well paid, to a decent living, to barely more than minimum wage, to outsourced to India (for reservations at least, hard to outsource the ramp job internationally) the quality of service has dropped in general.

Also when did UA care about customer service? PMUA service was um, spotty, before the merger.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting ADent (Reply 15):
If the new guys are 30% cheaper then it is likely that the quality of service will drop (due to fewer people or people paid less or both). However it is not necessarily true and service could rise.

If you take an individual person and start cutting their wages then yeah, I think their quality of service drops. But if you replace a person with someone new with the same wage cut I would bet service will stay the same or rise, because the new person isn't necessarily jaded by the past or bitter over the cut in pay.

There are certainly arguments to go both ways, and service levels really depend more on the person who is working than the company they are working for.

Quoting xpfg (Thread starter):
Just announced today within the company,

So all the mountain stations are safe?
 
AlnessW
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 4:31 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 11):
This is true. That's why they stopped using the E-5 gate.


That would make sense. Doesn't UA mainline still use E5 though?

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 11):
Maybe with this news, Skywest will withdraw the 120's from PDX.


Are the 120s OO only?

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 11):
They can move the RJ's to the mainline gates and have us (mainline employees) work them.


Now, is there room in the current schedule to accommodate RJs into the mainline gates? Usually E1-E5 seem to be pretty heavily used for UA mainline to SFO, ORD, DEN, IAD, etc, as well as IAH and EWR.

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 11):
I never understood how they parked the RJ's down on E-6 and made the people walk to the Terminal in the Portland wet winters.


I agree; it is not the best setup. The seating area at E6 is also small, old, and cramped. At least E7 is on the same level as the mainline gates in the terminal and has more seating.

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 11):
We have a new Station Manager now.


Yes, I heard Steve Schreiber retired in November, if that's who you're talking about.

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 11):
He is all for getting new contracts, not like our last one. You will probably see UA Mainline working Air Canada Express soon also.


All great news, indeed. OO currently does AC as well?
 
gcb5196
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 5:05 pm

There can be a big difference in work between someone who has some loyalty to the company they are ground handling for and someone who's stepping up from flipping 30 cent burgers to working 30 million dollar jets. We rarely saw graffiti in our bins until they started farming out the jobs including mainline. Disclaimer, does not apply to everyone and in no way am I trying to offend anyone, just my observation.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 5:18 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 17):

I never heard of a Steve Schreiber. We lease gates E-1 through E-4. We pay as you go on D-1 and E-5. Our schedule is busy in the morning and at night. We tow a lot of planes to the hard stand. We can make it work with the RJ's if we use D-1 and E-5 more.
 
HPRamper
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 5:54 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 13):
Considering this wasn't decided until a couple weeks ago he was just guessing.

He never said it was a sure deal. He said word was floating around. Real things have a way of leaking a long time before they actually happen.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 17):
Are the 120s OO only?

Yes.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 17):
All great news, indeed. OO currently does AC as well?

OO has done Jazz for as long as I can remember.

Quoting gcb5196 (Reply 18):
There can be a big difference in work between someone who has some loyalty to the company they are ground handling for and someone who's stepping up from flipping 30 cent burgers to working 30 million dollar jets. We rarely saw graffiti in our bins until they started farming out the jobs including mainline. Disclaimer, does not apply to everyone and in no way am I trying to offend anyone, just my observation.

As a generalization, this is true. I've heard many people laughing about watching the Menzies "wannabe gangsters" getting off the employee bus. When I used to work in close proximity to ground handling company employees, there was a notable difference in attitude toward the job.
 
apodino
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 6:12 pm

Air Wisconsin is losing a couple of stations as well....noteably ATW...which will be taken over by Delta Regional Elite. With both ZW and OO losing significant stations in the ground handling operation, you have to wonder if this has a lot to do with employees at these stations being so senior that they had to switch providers to keep costs down. For example, the average ZW ground handler in ATW has about 20 years seniority. For an RJ only outstation, that is a long time.

That being said, ZW is bidding on the LAX contract, but the award is delayed. And for the people who criticize the IAD operation, I think that operation would be bad no matter who is running it. For starters, given the cost of living in the area, it is tough to hire good help, and retaining people just doesn't seem to happen there. It seems like there are always supervisor positions open. And with the nature of the area, you tend to get a lot of foreign natives working. I know the IAD station manager personally, and he told me that if you walked on the IAD ramp you would hear over 10 different languages being spoken. The problems at IAD were there back when Delta Global was handling it, and although Air Wisconsin has improved the operation a lot, the very nature of IAD prevents it from being the good operation it should be.
 
phllax
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 6:12 pm

Quoting xpfg (Thread starter):
The SkyWest stations closing will be: BUR.

BUR will be interesting due to SkyWest also handling the DCI operation as well.
 
BobbyPSP
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting phllax (Reply 22):

Quoting xpfg (Thread starter):
The SkyWest stations closing will be: BUR.

BUR will be interesting due to SkyWest also handling the DCI operation as well.

PSP TOO... As well as UA and DL mainline in season. PSP is also a maintenance/Inflght/Pilot base
 
Goldenshield
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 6:33 pm

PSP, SAN, FAT and SBA are a real shockers since they've been manned by the airline since they bought SunAire. That's over 25 years ago!

It's really sad when the regionals basically have to hand the keys of their stations over to mainline when the contract is signed.
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kgaiflyer
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 7:10 pm

BUR will be a disaster since those agents are bilingual. I feel bad for the SAN / CT-terminal folks also, since they know many frequent commuters by name and would give you an arm or leg if you asked for it.

I even feel bad for the sorority girls who staff the gates in PSP (one wears lots of diamond jewelry on duty) but I know they'll land on their feet.   
 
mcdu
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 7:10 pm

Quoting xpfg (Thread starter):
Very sad day for the 621 employees affected by this move.

Did you have the same sympathy for the UA employees that were removed from these stations to allow sub-contractors to do their work? Do you have the same angst for UA the pilots, mechanics and FA's that no longer flew those routes to those stations.

SKYW is a parasite fish that depends on the host (mainline carriers) to provide them their existence. Now the SKYW employees get a chance to see how the folks they took jobs from felt.

Good riddance to SKYW. I ride them quite often in California and the service they provide either via ground handling or in the air is nothing of great value. They are just like all the other express partners....the lowest common denominator.
 
toltommy
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting N353SK (Reply 14):
Because it's always a change towards a cheaper, lower-tier contractor. Case in point would be the UAX operation (Air Wisconsin) in Dulles. One of the worst run stations in the UAX system, and it's a hub.

That's your opinion, others on here have said it's much improved. UA has to watch the bottom line. And the bottom line is what keeps UA in a lot of these regional markets. I would imagine most customers don't notice any difference in outsourced stations. But if the ticket was $20 more expensive in order to go with a higher cost ground handler there would be fewer customers. The higher cost regionals/ground handlers didn't make the case that UA actually got more for paying more. We don't know who bid in these markets, and it is possible that there were lower bids that did not get accepted. Just like in your personal shopping, I'm sure they looked for overall best value for the dollar.
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FAT5DEP
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 7:25 pm

This takes me back to 1995 when I was a ramper for Delta Air Lines at FAT. I was making $7.60 an hour and then Delta contracted out the ramp to Elsinore Aircraft Services at $6.25 an hour. The full time rampers either left to other stations or became ticket agents. I hung on with Elsinore for a few years. I remember out of all the people Elsinore hired, a handful of them were gone within a few weeks because of failing a drug test or other job performance reasons.

It definintely wasn't a tension free change. Of course, that didn't matter after 1998 when Delta pulled out completely. Still, it was one of my favorite jobs that I had. Oh, and the art inside the cargo bay was extensive on those 727s!
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JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 26):
Did you have the same sympathy for the UA employees that were removed from these stations to allow sub-contractors to do their work? Do you have the same angst for UA the pilots, mechanics and FA's that no longer flew those routes to those stations.

Really? Maybe they did, but that is not what this thread it about.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 26):
SKYW is a parasite fish that depends on the host (mainline carriers) to provide them their existence. Now the SKYW employees get a chance to see how the folks they took jobs from felt.


Wow, really.....? These are people who lost their jobs. I have friends that are directly affected by this, and it was not the first time. Are there people who don't live up to standards? Probably, but the good majority of them are hard working people who want to provide the customer with the best experience possible.

And don't get mad at the regional employees who work the flights that were added after a mainline dropped it. It was the mainline carrier who decided to transition to regional jets. They were brought in to do a job and they did it. If you want to blame someone for mainline reductions, it is not the employees of Skywest, Air Wisconsin, Regional Elite or anyone else.
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ramprat74
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 20):
OO has done Jazz for as long as I can remember.

HP ground handled Air BC back in the day. Jazz wanted United to pick up the contract here in PDX. Our last station manager turned them down. Now, our new manager is trying to get it.
 
m11stephen
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 8:09 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 24):
It's really sad when the regionals basically have to hand the keys of their stations over to mainline when the contract is signed.

So mainline employees are coming back to some of the stations that OO is losing their contracts in?

Quoting apodino (Reply 21):
Air Wisconsin is losing a couple of stations as well....noteably ATW...which will be taken over by Delta Regional Elite. With both ZW and OO losing significant stations in the ground handling operation, you have to wonder if this has a lot to do with employees at these stations being so senior that they had to switch providers to keep costs down. For example, the average ZW ground handler in ATW has about 20 years seniority. For an RJ only outstation, that is a long time.

Wow! That is a shock! What other stations did ZW lose their contract in?
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Goldenshield
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 8:22 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 31):
So mainline employees are coming back to some of the stations that OO is losing their contracts in?

No, that's completely opposite of what I meant. There are many stations that were run by the their repsective regionals back when they were independant. PSP is one of these.

By signing the contract, ALL of the pre-existing stations, if they weren't closed outright because of the major dictating the schedule, were thrown onto a pile to be bid out. Many stations have survived with the regional because the regional was the only viable game in town.
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Rdh3e
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 32):
By signing the contract, ALL of the pre-existing stations, if they weren't closed outright because of the major dictating the schedule, were thrown onto a pile to be bid out. Many stations have survived with the regional because the regional was the only viable game in town.

Are you tying the GH to the Flying? I'm really confused at what you're trying to say, and I don't think I'm alone.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 33):
Are you tying the GH to the Flying?

Seperate facets of the operation, but mutually obtained when the contract was first signed. So, yes.
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skycub
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 9:09 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 31):
What other stations did ZW lose their contract in?

I have heard from a ZW employee, that ZW lost ATW, BIS, XNA, SPI, LIT and MSN.
My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
 
T5towbar
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 9:19 pm

Quoting xpfg (Thread starter):
Very sad day for the 621 employees affected by this move. SkyWest has some of the very best ground personnel I have ever met and it is finally coming to an end at many stations. Many of these people were at these stations for over 10 years.

Was SkyWest the biggest ground handling operation in the West? These people were probably senior and cost too much...

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 13):
Yeah, it is unfortunate, but ultimately when you have companies like Regional Elite etc whose strategy is a 30% attrition in order to keep fresh blood and bottom wages, it's going to be hard to compete with them

The wave of the future....... a ever rotating workforce. It will winding up costing more in the long run.

Quoting xpfg (Thread starter):
LAX and SFO are rumored to be next on the chopping block next year, as that's when SFO's contract expires for ramp personnel (customer service personell lost their jobs last year in SFO). LAX has been granted an extension for this year as the two LAX and SFO stations will be on one bid at the same time next year.

They should return them to Mainline.......

Quoting apodino (Reply 21):
That being said, ZW is bidding on the LAX contract, but the award is delayed. And for the people who criticize the IAD operation, I think that operation would be bad no matter who is running it. For starters, given the cost of living in the area, it is tough to hire good help, and retaining people just doesn't seem to happen there. It seems like there are always supervisor positions open. And with the nature of the area, you tend to get a lot of foreign natives working. I know the IAD station manager personally, and he told me that if you walked on the IAD ramp you would hear over 10 different languages being spoken. The problems at IAD were there back when Delta Global was handling it, and although Air Wisconsin has improved the operation a lot, the very nature of IAD prevents it from being the good operation it should be.

As I said before, since there more flight activity, IAD should go M/L.

Quoting toltommy (Reply 27):
That's your opinion, others on here have said it's much improved. UA has to watch the bottom line. And the bottom line is what keeps UA in a lot of these regional markets. I would imagine most customers don't notice any difference in outsourced stations. But if the ticket was $20 more expensive in order to go with a higher cost ground handler there would be fewer customers. The higher cost regionals/ground handlers didn't make the case that UA actually got more for paying more. We don't know who bid in these markets, and it is possible that there were lower bids that did not get accepted. Just like in your personal shopping, I'm sure they looked for overall best value for the dollar.

Fernie Lopez would agree with that statement. What I don't agree with him is to outsource all of Cargo (on the PMCO side). It is already outsourced on the PMUA side during BK)

Quoting gcb5196 (Reply 18):
There can be a big difference in work between someone who has some loyalty to the company they are ground handling for and someone who's stepping up from flipping 30 cent burgers to working 30 million dollar jets. We rarely saw graffiti in our bins until they started farming out the jobs including mainline. Disclaimer, does not apply to everyone and in no way am I trying to offend anyone, just my observation.

You can get better pay working elsewhere in the airport like in a store or restaurant or elsewhere. At least you wont be hurting your back or working in the elements.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
Rdh3e
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 36):
The wave of the future....... a ever rotating workforce. It will winding up costing more in the long run.

Depends on the efficiency of your training department.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 36):
You can get better pay working elsewhere in the airport like in a store or restaurant or elsewhere. At least you wont be hurting your back or working in the elements.

And not flying SA to exotic parts of the world for vacation 2+ times a year. Ultimately most of us are just travel junkies, right?
 
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ramprat74
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 32):
No, that's completely opposite of what I meant. There are many stations that were run by the their repsective regionals back when they were independant. PSP is one of these.

PSP was a mainline UA station. I should know, I started my career there. We handled both mainline and express. When United closed the station to UA employees, Skywest was awarded the contract. The bean counters don't care if you are mainline or regional employee. If they can find a cheaper contract, they will get rid of you.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 9:39 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 38):
PSP was a mainline UA station. I should know, I started my career there.

I'm sorry to hear that, but that doesn't negate anything I've said prior. SkyWest has had a PSP operation since they bought Sun Aire, and that was long before the UA contract in 1998.

You're right, bean counters do suck, but they've got a job to do, too.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 11:13 pm

There were Skywest employees in PSP back when I started. They operated Delta Connection flights to LAX. I can't remember what other cites they served back then though.
 
PWMRamper
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 11:56 pm

Quoting xjet (Reply 10):
The EV side (Legacy XE stations) of Skywest Inc is also losing stations. TYS, CRP, LBB, ABE, AMA, BHM, BRO, LIT, LFT, LRD, MHT, MOB, MEM, and SDF. It's funny. The worst stations in the system are staffed by Air Wisconsin. Obviously they are cheaper, but United is definitely going to get what they pay for.

ZW has some of the better numbers for baggage handling and on time departures in the UAX system.


ZW lost 8 stations yesterday, notably ones with a lot of seniority. It's gonna be cheaper for UA, but with 46 stations total switching ground handlers, it's going to be an interesting summer...
 
Prinair
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Fri May 18, 2012 11:59 pm

Get your facts in order .... SkyWest is losing over 25 cities on this current bid. ZW is currently out in only a few cities and if you were able to actually check statistics for these cities you would notice that ZW handled station are usually better handled than most. These were decisions based on COST. ZW did gain one new city... TYS
PRINAIR - Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
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Hypoxik
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Sat May 19, 2012 12:37 am

ZW only has good ops in their state.
ATW, GRB, MSN are outstanding stations.
OO has done a great job and it is a shame even we don't always see eye to eye. Same with the XE stations mentioned above.
Regional Elite and ZW are hit or miss (mostly miss)
They are not easy to deal with in other stations specifically in the NE and SW.
KIWA, PHOG, KEWR, KIAH, KLAX, KIAH, KEWR, KORD, KIAD, KORD, KSFO, KLAX, KBUR
 
Prinair
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Sat May 19, 2012 12:43 am

Funny how many pilots choose to criticize ground handlers based on their opinion rather than facts. Usually they criticize a station that would not put up with their arrogance or attitude during one of their stops.
PRINAIR - Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
PWMRamper
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Sat May 19, 2012 12:48 am

Quoting Hypoxik (Reply 43):
ZW only has good ops in their state.
ATW, GRB, MSN are outstanding stations.
OO has done a great job and it is a shame even we don't always see eye to eye. Same with the XE stations mentioned above.
Regional Elite and ZW are hit or miss (mostly miss)
They are not easy to deal with in other stations specifically in the NE and SW.

I looked at ZW's Baggage Numbers earlier this week. They are the leader across all of United's Ground Handlers, usually outperforming mainline as well.

ZW again, also consistently is at or near the top in on time departures for UAX. The biggest reason ZW lost the contracts in the cities they did is the seniority level is very, very high at those stations.
 
m11stephen
Posts: 372
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:16 am

RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Sat May 19, 2012 12:49 am

Quoting Prinair (Reply 42):
Get your facts in order .... SkyWest is losing over 25 cities on this current bid. ZW is currently out in only a few cities and if you were able to actually check statistics for these cities you would notice that ZW handled station are usually better handled than most. These were decisions based on COST. ZW did gain one new city... TYS

ZW lost 8 out of the 23 cities it had contracts with UA in. Many of the cities that it still retains contracts in will be coming up for bid soon. SkyWest lost 16 out of the 57 cities it has. Hopefully regional carriers like Air Wisconsin, ExpressJet and SkyWest can get their act together and lower their labor costs so contractors like Regional Elite, Delta Global, ATS, etc. don't completely take over.

It seems like many regionals are getting out of the ground handling business. Comair, Mesaba and Compass combined their ground handling operations to form Regional Elite. IIRC, Trans States, Chautauqua and PSA all use to have ground handling divisions but no longer do so.
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
 
PWMRamper
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Sat May 19, 2012 1:07 am

Quoting Hypoxik (Reply 43):
ZW only has good ops in their state.
ATW, GRB, MSN are outstanding stations.
OO has done a great job and it is a shame even we don't always see eye to eye. Same with the XE stations mentioned above.
Regional Elite and ZW are hit or miss (mostly miss)
They are not easy to deal with in other stations specifically in the NE and SW.

Just looked at a few more numbers...

Air Wisconsin handles the 3rd most Express Flights in the system, behind Mainline stations and SkyWest.

The next closest ground handler is Regional Elite which handles about 25% the amount of flights ZW does.

Air Wisconsin has a higher STAR Departure %, a higher on time percentage, and takes Station Delays (IE, the only ones the ground handler can control) 3% less of the time than SkyWest.

Listen, I'm not saying ZW is blowing everyone out of the water, but they have consistently better numbers than SkyWest and Mainline. Some smaller Ground Handlers have slightly better numbers than ZW, but the other 9 ground handlers COMBINED only handle about 65% of the flights ZW does.

To say that ZW has the worst stations is laughable.
 
kingcavalier
Posts: 412
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RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Sat May 19, 2012 1:14 am

Ground handling contracts issued as follows -

BFL - Delta Global Services (DGS)
BUR - GAT
EUG - DGS
FAR - Regional Elite Air Services (REAS)
FAT- DGS
MEM - GAT
MFR - DGS
MRY - AE
MSO - REAS
PDX - AE
PSP - AE
RAP - REAS
RDM - DGS
SAN - AE
SBA - AE
SEA - DGS
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
m11stephen
Posts: 372
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:16 am

RE: SkyWest/UAX Loses Ground Handling At 16 Stations

Sat May 19, 2012 1:53 am

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 48):

Where did you get that list? It would be interesting to see a system wide list of stations that are changing ground handlers.
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.

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