Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
FlyBlue777
Topic Author
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:47 pm

Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 12:20 am

I was at ORD yesterday, on a 737-800. While at the gate, the Captain gave the welcoming announcement, but threw in that it was a Continental Airlines crew. It went something like this:

"....welcome aboard United flight xxxxx operated by your Continental Airlines crew....."

I thought this was unusual, since the companies are now one.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6144
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 12:27 am

Sounds like a proud Continental employee trying to keep the memories alive of the company he technically no longer works for.
 
AA737-823
Posts: 5492
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 12:48 am

This is quite common- it happened on all of my Continental flights last week.

And, regardless of which pre-merger airline we (elite pax) came from, I think we're all united (see what I did there?) in the fact that we wish the merger HADN'T happened.....

...now excuse me, I have to go spend elite bonus miles that I'm no longer earning on reward tickets that are no longer available to an airport that the website no longer believes it serves.... namely, LCY. United.com would book it. United.com won't book it.
 
tpaewr
Posts: 721
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:01 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 1:46 am

I suspect that isn't SOP, but it happened alot. Have you heard about having a "Real United crew" on sUA? I am afraid there is nihl employee buy in a both sides.

FWIW internally it all very true. We are all sCO and sUA everything from payroll to email is legacy. The merger is only done on the customer facing surface. Example all my payroll still says Continental Airlines. Ironically so does UA expense now, since they took on CO system. Otherwise inside nothing has chg'd.
 
Okie
Posts: 4113
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 1:55 am

Quoting FlyBlue777 (Thread starter):
While at the gate, the Captain gave the welcoming announcement, but threw in that it was a Continental Airlines crew


It was the same thing when AA first took over TWA.

" Welcome to AA flight XXX operated by your STL based TWA crew"

Then the dot com bubble burst and 9-11 and next thing you knew there was no TW crews left.

Okie
 
Max Q
Posts: 8105
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 2:13 am

There is more to it than that.


While undoubtedly he wanted to acknowledge his pride in being from the Continental side it is also a conscious statement to the public that we do not have a joint seniority list and / or a contract and it is way overdue, we are still not a truly merged Airline.


The two Pilot groups are kept totally separate as a result. This is all because of Smiseks pathetic, divisive and combative leadership style.


He has missed no opportunity to stifle the negotiation process and fight the Pilots at every turn.


Contrast this with the brilliant management over at DAL.


Our financial results are a reflection of his incompetence. It is way past time for him to go.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
tpaewr
Posts: 721
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:01 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 2:51 am

Quoting okie (Reply 4):
nd next thing you knew there was no TW crews left.

Lets not forget the role the IAM played in selling out its TWA members.
 
User avatar
kgaiflyer
Posts: 2741
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
United.com would book it. United.com won't book it.

I'm not sure I know what you mean.

Can you be clearer?
 
UnitedTristar
Posts: 863
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 6:45 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 3:02 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
Contrast this with the brilliant management over at DAL.


Our financial results are a reflection of his incompetence. It is way past time for him to go.

well, if you wanted the DL contract, why didn't you take it when it was offered? the flight crews were all offered the DL contract and they didn't want it.

and if you work for United which i suspect you do by the statement of "our financial results" there are better places to air this then on here.

-m

  
 
Max Q
Posts: 8105
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 3:23 am

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 8):


well, if you wanted the DL contract, why didn't you take it when it was offered? the flight crews were all offered the DL contract and they didn't want it.

We were offered their old contract, which has expired, obsolete and useless, Smisek would love to have sold us that.

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 8):

and if you work for United which i suspect you do by the statement of "our financial results" there are better places to air this then on here.

So what ? !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
skycub
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:49 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 3:27 am

Although it is not our standard PA, I always mention: "On behalf of your Dallas-based flight attendants, we would like to be the first to welcome you to...... ."

Why do I say it? Because I am proud to be part of a Dallas-based flight attendant crew.

There is nothing more to it than that.... I am proud.

I am sure that is exactly how the Continental pilot feels. There is just a sense of pride in where you are from... whether it be a certain base or from a certain carrier.

It has nothing more to do with ANYTHING other than being proud of where you are or were from.


That does make me think of my days at another carrier where our bases were part of our standard announcements and we were supposed to mention them all....lol. Sometimes it just got CRAZY....

"On behalf of your Boston, New York and Dallas/Fort Worth-based flight attendants and your San Francisco and Miami-based pilots....welcome to....."
My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8105
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 3:53 am

Quoting skycub (Reply 10):

It has nothing more to do with ANYTHING other than being proud of where you are or were from

Yes it does, this particular PA announcement is encouraged by our MEC for two reasons:



1)To let the public know we are not a truly merged company.



2) Because Smisek doesn't like it.



Make no mistake we are all proud of our Continental heritage, but there is a strategy here !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
catiii
Posts: 3401
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 3:59 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
o the public that we do not have a joint seniority list

And yet UACH management has no say how the pilots integrate their seniority lists which is done solely by ALPA, and since you can't have a joint contract with two split work groups (thus the word "joint) that aren't integrated, it would seem to me that your gripe is with your union leaders.


Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
The two Pilot groups are kept totally separate as a result. This is all because of Smiseks pathetic, divisive and combative leadership style.

Or because Jay Heppner and his lieutenants can't get their act together. Since the close of the merger UA has negotiated contracts with CO and UA mechanics and are well along with a joint contract, and has made progress with both F/A groups. Now with the mechanics they can't sign a joint contract because there is a issue of the PMUA, 'Consent Decree' that impacts seniority integration between the 2 work groups that the unions need to settle. Thus, the negotiations are on hold until the 2 mechanic unions solve the 'Consent Decree' issue. Seems like you have a work group issue more than a management one.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 9):
We were offered their old contract, which has expired, obsolete and useless

The contract that they are amending now? That contract hasn't expired. In fact it wasn't supposed to be amendable for another 7 months. The DL MEC saw how badly your negotiations were going and took advantage of it to negotiate a new deal with DL.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
Contrast this with the brilliant management over at DAL.

The difference is that DL bought NW, as opposed to a merger of equals the way your deal is structured. And anyways it's apples and oranges. UA labor has, and has historically had, a toxic relationship with management. The same wasn't true at DL, and was to a lesser extent untrue at NW. You can't remotely compare them.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):
Yes it does, this particular PA announcement is encouraged by our MEC for two reasons:

2) Because Smisek doesn't like it.

And this is why you and your union leadership appear more like a soap opera than a professional association. It's like the time when you thought you were making a point by not wearing your hats. Meanwhile, you look foolish and inept. Too bad.

[Edited 2012-05-21 21:08:32]
 
AA737-823
Posts: 5492
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 4:16 am

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 7):
I'm not sure I know what you mean.

Can you be clearer?

I phrased it the way I did so that you'd see the irony, but I'll be clearer for ya.
The OLD united.com would book tickets to London-City airport all day long, via codeshares on LH or NEW: Swiss International Airlines (Switzerland)">LX.
The NEW united.com says that London-City isn't served by United or any of their codeshare partners, which is blatantly incorrect.
Which is very aggravating... if I want to fly into LCY, I must make a telephone booking and pay the telephone booking fee (which they no longer waive for my level of status.... granted, my status dropped this year to silver, given that I've moved much of my flying to other carriers).
 
Sean-SAN-
Posts: 815
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:02 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 4:18 am

When Delta and NW merged, the management realized they needed to spend some money to make the workgroups quickly and happily merge together. Unfortunately, Smisek has taken the opposite approach and took the cheap way out. He stuck with the archaic computer system that demoralized the UA gate agents, put 50+ seat RJ's in CO flights in direct violation of CO ALPA scope, and is playing hardball with ALPA on a new pilot contract while Delta is already on TA #2. It's no wonder that United employees still feel extremely fragmented, and unappreciated. A merger is not a zero-cost endeavor, unfortunately the airline industry attracts the bottom basement of management skill and this is what we end up with.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2040
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 4:27 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 12):
And yet UACH management has no say how the pilots integrate their seniority lists which is done solely by ALPA, and since you can't have a joint contract with two split work groups (thus the word "joint) that aren't integrated, it would seem to me that your gripe is with your union leaders.

???

The agreement between United (U.C.H.), UA ALPA and CO ALPA require that a joint contract be reached BEFORE a joint seniority list is negotiated. So your statement "...since you can't have a joint contract with two split work groups..." is factually wrong.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
gman3
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:13 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 4:38 am

There are some key things you can figure on your own as to who is operating your flight. The aircraft itself, The FA uniforms, and the boarding times of the 757 and the narrowbodies. You will be able to figure it out on your own that way.
 
platinumfoota
Posts: 213
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:39 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 5:34 am

If you look at the sCO fleet that is painted in the "new" colors there is a lable/decal that says "Operated by CO" normally near the front cargo door, depending on the aircraft
Never forget United 93
 
skycub
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:49 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 5:42 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):

Yes it does, this particular PA announcement is encouraged by our MEC for two reasons:



1)To let the public know we are not a truly merged company.



2) Because Smisek doesn't like it.



Make no mistake we are all proud of our Continental heritage, but there is a strategy here !

Huh. And here I was trying to stand up for the Continental pilot. Thanks to your post, I can see he is just an arrogant, stubborn a-hole.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Up until your post, I was willing to defend him.

Okay... let me re-post..... So the CO pilot is a self-centered, arrogant, overpaid moron who has no respect for his company and wants to let all of his passengers know what his true feelings towards his employer are.

Thanks, Max Q! I am so very glad I am no longer an ignorant fool who stood up for a pilot I thought was proud of his origins!

Makes me sleep better knowing he is a jerk rather than just a proud former CO employee!
My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
 
N505fx
Posts: 336
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:02 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 5:59 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):
1)To let the public know we are not a truly merged company.

Except no one really cares, and it just ends up sounding confusing to the passengers, ultimately hurting the combined company in the end. You are all United now, get over it already.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 6:03 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):
Make no mistake we are all proud of our Continental heritage, but there is a strategy here !

What strategy? An underground movement to retain the CO name? I think I am missing something here. Last time I checked, we are UA employees, like it or not. Personally, suck it up and move on. If not, quit. Living in the past means you never move forward.

I am very proud of where I came from too, 25 years at CO, now, 1 year with UA. I also make announcements, I welcome and thank people for flying United. It is the company I work for, the company I represent and the company people chose to fly with that day.

This is my second merger, among so many other hurdles I dealt with this job and company and I still love where and for whom I work. Bottom line: we are still here and still going strong.

Welcome aboard United and thank you for flying with us.
You can't cure stupid
 
saloman
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:31 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 6:14 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 20):

What a refreshing comment! Thank you. The big picture is that the people who pay the bills in the long run (hint: passengers) don't give two hoots about how an employee feels about an employer.
 
N505fx
Posts: 336
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:02 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 7:01 am

Quoting saloman (Reply 21):
Welcome aboard United and thank you for flying with us.

Thats the right attitude, that hopefully others will adopt to bring passengers back.

MaxQ's is what will drive them away, which is why I had no problem telling one of his dinosaur counterparts that made same announcement what I thought when we landed in LAX, he proceeded to give the spiel about seniority lists blah blah blah...I told him that as a passenger and Premier Exec, I didn't really care about, nor want to hear about his spat with management or nostalgia for days past. Also, the "exCon" gear that cabin and flight deck crew are wearing now is kind of offensive to the new brand, it should be ruled out as an option to wear.
 
User avatar
zkokq
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:44 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 7:05 am

I am sorry, but why does he feel the need to announce this. United are his employer now. He either works for United, or leaves. living in the past will do nothing but hurt the UA brand. Get over it, move on or give your job to someone who wants it.
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3586
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 7:16 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):
Yes it does, this particular PA announcement is encouraged by our MEC for two reasons:



1)To let the public know we are not a truly merged company.

I like you Max Q, but with all due respect, the average passenger doesn't give a flying phuck.

And as a non-average passenger who knows a thing or two about a thing or two, neither do I.

At the end of the day, get me where I need to go safely.

I know that stings, and may be unfair in your eyes, but when I am told to be at a meeting in SFO/LAX/IAH etc at a certain time, that's all the average person cares about.

If you have grievances with your company, please do not try and put it on 'me'.
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
chopchop767
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:16 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 7:42 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 20):

Thank you for your professionalism! Everyone likes to grumble a little bit about work, but people grumble because they care!

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):
Yes it does, this particular PA announcement is encouraged by our MEC for two reasons:



1)To let the public know we are not a truly merged company.



2) Because Smisek doesn't like it.



Make no mistake we are all proud of our Continental heritage, but there is a strategy here !

This is disappointing, and yet not surprising at all. Enough with the sabotage and partisanship. I fly with United 1.) because they have the best route network for seamless travel with their Star Partners from where I live to where I need to go. 2.) My experiences in the past, have generally been very positive; especially with pre-merger UA. Morale has definitely taken a hit the past year (noticeable both onboard and on the ground) and this has even pushed me to taking more oneWorld flights. The pilots, as the highest paid employees should set an example; not make cheap shots like this.

Knowing this, I think UA should have the crews state where they're based out of; not what pre-merger entity they were associated with. Especially, on the transpacific flights, it was always nice to hear: 'This flight is proudly operated by your LAX, NRT, and HKG based crews.' Or something to that effect. It evinced a sense of pride and unity.
this year: nap, lgw, fra, dub, fco, add, jib, muc, iad, sea, dca, bos, cdg, ist, bah, prg, ord, hsv, cmn
 
chopchop767
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:16 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 7:56 am

Quoting N505FX (Reply 22):
I told him that as a passenger and Premier Exec, I didn't really care about, nor want to hear about his spat with management or nostalgia for days past.

Good for you! Sadly, however, I'm starting to think that the statuses are just a nice little piece of plastic for your luggage and your wallet. I've been treated rudely lately on the ground and in the air, flying in trans-Atlantic J and as a United Platinum Elite, or whatever they call it. That's not to say that I haven't encountered some wonderful agents and crews, especially between IAD and SEA, but I've given up on thinking that status gets us anywhere; in some respects, because of sentiments like 'pre-merger Continental'. Were I 1K and flying in F, I don't think that would change the situation much either; it's really the luck of the draw these days.
this year: nap, lgw, fra, dub, fco, add, jib, muc, iad, sea, dca, bos, cdg, ist, bah, prg, ord, hsv, cmn
 
FlyboyOz
Posts: 1762
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2000 10:05 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 8:11 am

Well...That's odd. I have no idea why Continental crew aren't happy with UAL. Sorry for being silly talk. I only know that UA CEO comes from or used to work for Continental and I guess that he will use/bring Continental's inflight services, management and business to United Airlines.
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2361
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 8:43 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 20):

A great post, you are a true professional. i hope I come across you in the skies one day.

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 23):
I am sorry, but why does he feel the need to announce this. United are his employer now. He either works for United, or leaves. living in the past will do nothing but hurt the UA brand. Get over it, move on or give your job to someone who wants it.

Ding, Ding, we have a winner. If the y guy hates his enviroment so much, move aside and let somebody else sit in his seat. Simples!
 
Max Q
Posts: 8105
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 8:49 am

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 14):


When Delta and NW merged, the management realized they needed to spend some money to make the workgroups quickly and happily merge together. Unfortunately, Smisek has taken the opposite approach and took the cheap way out. He stuck with the archaic computer system that demoralized the UA gate agents, put 50+ seat RJ's in CO flights in direct violation of CO ALPA scope, and is playing hardball with ALPA on a new pilot contract while Delta is already on TA #2. It's no wonder that United employees still feel extremely fragmented, and unappreciated. A merger is not a zero-cost endeavor, unfortunately the airline industry attracts the bottom basement of management skill and this is what we end up with.

Well said.



Apart from that it's the usual Usual A.net anti union / Pilot rhetoric from people who do not know any better.




In any case Smisek will be given his walking papers (and crying all the way to the bank) soon enough and let's hope we can get some competent management to take over.




Otherwise this grand enterprise could easily go the way of the Dodo bird..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
bevisisback
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:31 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 9:08 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 12):
And this is why you and your union leadership appear more like a soap opera than a professional association. It's like the time when you thought you were making a point by not wearing your hats. Meanwhile, you look foolish and inept. Too bad.

Couldn't agree more. I know im going to rattle a few cages here but mergers are a fact of life. Is who's name is on the plane really that important? What about where the crew are based? Do you think customers honestly give a flying fig..?

I am sympathetic when it comes to contract issues but people, keep it away from the customers. Its so unprofessional.
 
Flaps
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 12:11 pm

What a sad path of events. Many years ago UA was my favorite airline, closely followed and later overtaken by CO. Its very disappointing to see both groups going down this road like they have. Hopefully these people will wake up and smell the coffee before time passes them by.

As a case in point, I am currently a DL elite and fly them almost exclusively. How did this come to be? Lousy service, bad attitudes and poor reliability on UA. These factors drove me to give DL a try and there I have stayed. Problems occur at DL as well but I know that their employees will go out of their way and make every possible effort to correct the situation. As a result I trust them and continue to do business with them. I have a trip scheduled next week where I must work in the morning and fly home the same day for my daughters graduation. An unusual combination of factors dictated that I would have to fly UA via ORD to make this trip. I have 8 hours from my scheduled departure from ORD to make the ceremony in PIT. Because of my previous experiences with UA, I have felt the need to reserve a rental car at ORD just in case there is an issue with the connecting flight. That way I can assure myself that i will be able to get there. I have never felt that way on DL. How pathetic is that?

My point is that UA employees have cost their company my business. Is management blameless? Hell no but its the employees and how they handle issues that make the difference in the customers eye. Customers can and will vote with their feet. When enough of them do so, you folks will be out of a job and who will you blame then? My advice to everyone at UA/CO is get over it and focus your energies on getting your act together. If for no other reason than to save your own skins. This petty bitterness only reflects poorly on you as individuals, your unions and your company.
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6691
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 12:29 pm

On my United Express flight last month , the very cute FA was telling people how many miles they could earn for their One Pass Account.
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
windy95
Posts: 2775
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 12:36 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
The two Pilot groups are kept totally separate as a result. This is all because of Smiseks pathetic, divisive and combative leadership style.

No that is because you have not come up with a joint T/A yet between your two work groups.

Quoting catiii (Reply 12):
ALPA, and since you can't have a joint contract with two split work groups (thus the word "joint) that aren't integrated, it would seem to me that your gripe is with your union leaders.

Great point. Seniority integration has nothing to do with the Company.

Quoting catiii (Reply 12):
Now with the mechanics they can't sign a joint contract because there is a issue of the PMUA, 'Consent Decree' that impacts seniority integration between the 2 work groups that the unions need to settle

The lawyers are working on that one.

Quoting catiii (Reply 12):
And this is why you and your union leadership appear more like a soap opera than a professional association.

Announcements like the one in this thread are Childish. We are all United now.

Quoting skycub (Reply 18):
And here I was trying to stand up for the Continental pilot. Thanks to your post, I can see he is just an arrogant, stubborn a-hole.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Up until your post, I was willing to defend him.

They have a tendency to do this to you.

Quoting N505FX (Reply 19):
Except no one really cares, and it just ends up sounding confusing to the passengers, ultimately hurting the combined company in the end. You are all United now, get over it already.

Most of us have and are working on our future joint T/A's.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 20):
An underground movement to retain the CO name? I think I am missing something here. Last time I checked, we are UA employees, like it or not. Personally, suck it up and move on. If not, quit. Living in the past means you never move forward.

Great Post.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 29):
Apart from that it's the usual Usual A.net anti union / Pilot rhetoric from people who do not know any better.

Sorry many of us are and have been on the industry a long time. We know better.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 29):
In any case Smisek will be given his walking papers (and crying all the way to the bank) soon enough and let's hope we can get some competent management to take over.

Maybe you need more competent leaders in your union so you can put together a joint contract and a Seniority list. Please do not drag the rest of us down with your petty mud slinging . Fix your own house first and come up with a joint T/A.
 
30west
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:18 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 1:06 pm

Quoting bevisisback (Reply 30):
Do you think customers honestly give a flying fig..?

I've got a question for all of you that bring up customers and flying, primarily do you all think pilots fly airplanes so they can be in a customer service business or do you think they just generally like to fly planes and people/cargo happen to be in the back?

I know the answer maybe you should think about it.
 
nycjbird
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:24 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 1:34 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 31):
My point is that UA employees have cost their company my business. Is management blameless? Hell no but its the employees and how they handle issues that make the difference in the customers eye. Customers can and will vote with their feet. When enough of them do so, you folks will be out of a job and who will you blame then? My advice to everyone at UA/CO is get over it and focus your energies on getting your act together. If for no other reason than to save your own skins. This petty bitterness only reflects poorly on you as individuals, your unions and your company.

Oh crap. I knew this was going to end up being a union bashing thread. And I was right.

The sad reality is that during the Bethune era the employees of Continental Airlines were empowered to do their job and were given the tools to do it. Management stayed out of the way and let the employees do their thing. And it worked. Everyone was happy to come to work and do a good job because they were able to. Then came Kellner who tried to follow the same path. But then there is Jeff Smisek who saw the need to reinvent the wheel. Employees are no longer empowered to do their job without asking permission for everything. The workable tools to do said job have been taken away. Passengers are nickeled and dimed to death, elites have had their programs slashed, websites don't work (one of the internal employee websites still doesn't work properly after 19 months,) and the list goes on. And Mr Smisek nearly doubles his pay...right after a failed integration of the IT systems.

I am sure I can speak for ALL employees that we don't want the passenger to go anywhere since they are the lifeblood of our business. But until the core business is fixed then things are probably not going to get much better. We can only hope that senior management will someday SOON open their eyes and realize what the real problems are and start to fix them. The rest will follow. So, in the end, to essentially say that a lot of these problems are employee caused and it reflects poorly on the company is putting a bunch of the blame in the wrong place. We all hope that we will very soon be able to once again work for a great company like United and Continental were.
 
birdbrainz
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 6:57 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 1:40 pm

I agree about the silly announcement about it operated by a Continental crew. I heard it on my last FRA-EWR flight, and thought to myself, "Oh brother. Not this again..."

I'm a UA elite who flies both airlines regularly. They are BOTH great airlines, and have the potential to be greater than the sum of the parts. However, if both groups don't get their act together, I'll switch to Delta. From what I heard, I'm not alone. Heck, I prefer mainline out of GSO rather than the noisy ERJs any day.

Both the UA and CO employees are now in the same boat, and that boat is hard enough to row when the oars are moving in unison.

Delta's gotta be loving all of this.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
flyfree727
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:11 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 3:58 pm

Quoting nycjbird (Reply 35):
Oh crap. I knew this was going to end up being a union bashing thread. And I was right.


Well thats what A.net stands for you know.. ANTI-UNION.net...
its ALWAYS the employee's fault when management fails. And until you learn that you will be constantly reminded by many.

AA ORD
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1982
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 4:02 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
While undoubtedly he wanted to acknowledge his pride in being from the Continental side it is also a conscious statement to the public that we do not have a joint seniority list and / or a contract and it is way overdue, we are still not a truly merged Airline.

A piece of information I, as a member of that flying public, am always dying to know about when I board an aircraft. "Please folks vent while I fasten my seatbelt!"   
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:33 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):
Yes it does, this particular PA announcement is encouraged by our MEC for two reasons:



1)To let the public know we are not a truly merged company.



2) Because Smisek doesn't like it.



Make no mistake we are all proud of our Continental heritage, but there is a strategy here !

Tell me it isn't more to do with the latter. The passengers don't know or care about #1.
 
hiflyer
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:38 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 4:22 pm

Quoting CWAFlyer (Reply 39):
Make no mistake we are all proud of our Continental heritage, but there is a strategy here !

Tell me it isn't more to do with the latter. The passengers don't know or care about #1.

Friend of mine told me that the reason UA pilots did not wear their hats in the past was to protest Glenn Tilton....he said the only thing that did was prove how bald they were...
   
 
quiet1
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:39 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 4:26 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
The two Pilot groups are kept totally separate as a result. This is all because of Smiseks pathetic, divisive and combative leadership style.
Quoting windy95 (Reply 33):
No that is because you have not come up with a joint T/A yet between your two work groups.

Actually the merged (joint) contract will be negotiated by two parties: an ALPA committee and the company. The ALPA committee, I presume, will have members from both PMUA and PMCO.

With the F/A's, they first wanted amendable contracts with both PMUA and PMCO resolved/ratified before they approached the company with their combined negotiations committee. (I think the committee comprises not only PMUA and PMCO representatives, but also Air Micronesia?)

If the pilots are following that path, they need to get ratified PMCO and PMUA contracts in place. THEN they can jointly negotiate with the company for a merged contract.
 
N505fx
Posts: 336
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:02 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 4:48 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 29):
Apart from that it's the usual Usual A.net anti union / Pilot rhetoric from people who do not know any better.




In any case Smisek will be given his walking papers (and crying all the way to the bank) soon enough and let's hope we can get some competent management to take over.

Max Q, your assumptions are as wrong as your attitude...I probably know more and have a longer historical perspective than you...and the benefit of the perspective of paying passenger, one that pays your salary and doesn't want to hear your sniveling. I know all of the intricacies of ALPA's position with UCH, and your comments and LACK of esprit d'corp need to be focused on your union leadership and your employer, not your paying passengers, WE DON'T CARE.
 
N505fx
Posts: 336
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:02 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 4:54 pm

Quoting 30west (Reply 34):
I know the answer maybe you should think about it.

That's pretty cool, you can answer for all pilots, all over the world? That is some super power!
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1059
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 5:12 pm

Quoting FlyBlue777 (Thread starter):

This happened on UA1487 that I was on last week (737-800) and I thought it was a little odd. They need to get over it, there're now UA.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 5:14 pm

Quoting 30west (Reply 34):
I know the answer maybe you should think about it.

They fly because they like to, has nothing to do with customer service. If it did, how do you explain cargo pilots.
You can't cure stupid
 
N505fx
Posts: 336
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:02 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting nycjbird (Reply 35):
Oh crap. I knew this was going to end up being a union bashing thread. And I was right.

It's not really union bashing...at least not to start. It wasn't the voices representing the paying passengers that originally brought up the union issue. It is an employee conduct issue. I am sure a lot of people are sympathetic to employee/employer struggles, but honestly, what do the rank and file expect average joe consumer to do to influence management, other than say "your employees suck, I am going to fly another airline", which in turn leads to lower revenues, which in turn leads to management being able to say "look ALPA, we just don't have the money, we are losing money, you are going to have to settle for a lower bump in pay and benefits"... in the end customers have little power or skin in this game, don't involve them and set yourself up for success, not failure.
 
slider
Posts: 7546
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting tpaewr (Reply 3):
FWIW internally it all very true. We are all sCO and sUA everything from payroll to email is legacy.

Um, incorrect. Email's merged. Accounts payable and all other functions are merged. Payroll systems are still separate, but going to come together. Understandably there are things that are still disparate, but you grossly overestimate and overstate what are CO/UA "legacy" systems--a term not used, BTW.

Quoting platinumfoota (Reply 17):
If you look at the sCO fleet that is painted in the "new" colors there is a lable/decal that says "Operated by CO" normally near the front cargo door, depending on the aircraft

That was a regulatory requirement until single operating certificate was granted. It's not needed now but won't be removed just for the sake of painting over it. Also, it's not by the front bin door at all--it's aft and says operated by CAL and the certificate #.

Quoting bevisisback (Reply 30):
I am sympathetic when it comes to contract issues but people, keep it away from the customers. Its so unprofessional.

AMEN.

Hey UA people, your paycheck says United Airlines. Period. It doesn't say Continental anymore. Move on and get over it already. You sound like petulant children by carrying on the "proud Continental crew" shtick. I understand the pride, the emotions, but it's time to get past it. Accept it or find a new place to hang your hat. If they're paying your paycheck, you should say what they damn well ask you to and stop improvising.
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3739
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 5:58 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 29):
Otherwise this grand enterprise could easily go the way of the Dodo bird..

It almost sounds as if this is what you want. If so and it happens, where does that leave you?
I can speak from experience here as someone who has been through more mergers, buyouts and name changes than he can count. You have two choices. Accept that things at your company have changed, be happy that you survived the consolidation and elimination of redundant positions and embrace your new company culture - or pack up your things and move on to greener pastures. As others have noted , the customer doesn't care about the name on the sign, they care that their needs are met
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: Comment By UA Captain

Tue May 22, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 37):
Well thats what A.net stands for you know.. ANTI-UNION.net...
its ALWAYS the employee's fault when management fails. And until you learn that you will be constantly reminded by many.

Are you sure? This forum is very much pro-union, and it's always the management's fault no matter how outrageous the demands of the union leadership is.

The only site that's more pro-union than this one is daily kos.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos