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JFKPurser
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:03 pm

From Wall Street Journal concerning the extension of the exclusivity period:

"Creditors prefer to have US Airways or other interested merger partners competing against an AMR stand-alone plan perceived as strong, so they can get the best possible deal, according to people familiar with the process. If a company in Chapter 11 loses exclusive control over proposing a reorganization plan, a case can get contentious, with an array of creditors and other parties suggesting their own road maps for getting the company out of court."
 
TWA85
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:14 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 98):
I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment of the AA/US combination of two "weak" networks creating another weak one, and so does all of Wall Street and the rest of the industry (except you, some people here in this thread, Bill Swelbar, and, of course, Horton and his VPs). On the contrary -- the two combined are capable of doing far more than each can on its own. The combined network beats any carrier in the East and Midwest. Please read through some analysts assessments of the combination of these networks. I posted links to them further up this page. They can explain it better than I can, and I really don't have the time or the will to go through a bullete-point comparison here.

The combined networkd of AA and US will be VERY strong however just not now. The assesment is based on the fact that AA high revenue yeilding network can not sustain a profitable operation due to AA's high operating costs. If Doug Parker were to integrate AA's high cost structure with US' lower revenue yeilding network, it could result in lower long term profits as the US network is only profitable due to US's lower operating costs. If AA has the chance to fully realize the bennifits of the bankruptcy process to bring it's operating costs down as much as possible, then AA's cost structure would compliment US' cost structure and the combined network will result in greater long term profits.

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 98):
Negotiations -- they are at the table all week. I am supposed to speak to Laura later today. If there is any news that is not too sensitive or confidential that she can relay to me at this point I will post it here.

Please do share any information you receive that you are able to share. Also when you talk to Laura Gladding, please ask her to remember when negotiating with the company that she can catch a lot more flies with Honey than she can with Vinegar. If she does not negotiate fair with the company then she is no better than the company.
 
aaexecplat
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:44 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 97):
We are being asked to take huge cuts -- under both AA and US plans

What are those huge cuts?
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting AAExecPlat (Reply 102):
What are those huge cuts?

Under AA: 20% total reduction of compensation:

Reduced pay
Reduced vacation credit -- at least one third less per year
Reduced sick time credit -- ends up being about half of what we have now
Frozen pension
More hours scheduled for month -- up to 100 hours from the current 85
Higher health insurance premiums -- triple the cost
Higher out of pocket maximums for insurance -- triple the annual amounts
Higher deductibles -- at least five times as much
No retiree health insurance between 55 and 65 when medicare takes over.

US has marginal improvements in this, amounting to about 15% total reduction.

Were you really not aware of any of this? I mean there is at least some basic code and responsibility involved in coming here and posting this or that on a matter without having a certain basic understanding of the specifics of the situation.

[Edited 2012-07-03 13:54:53]

[Edited 2012-07-03 14:02:44]
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 101):
Also when you talk to Laura Gladding, please ask her to remember when negotiating with the company that she can catch a lot more flies with Honey than she can with Vinegar. If she does not negotiate fair with the company then she is no better than the company.

She has known this for a long time and has forged positive professional and personal relationships with AA execs past and present. In addition, she is highly respect by the other members of the UCC.

No specifics on the negotiations, other than the company appears to be much more motivated than they have been to reach a deal.
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:12 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 97):
Bear in mind there are two opportunities forthcoming after the merge to renegotiate better terms with US -- one within 60 days after the takeover as currently stipulated in the agreement with them and then another to win more ground when US and AA employee groups negotiate common contracts.

Correction -- I just reviewed this again. The language is that the single carrier petition will be filed within 60 days of the transaction. If agreements are not forthcoming within 6 months of that date, the issue goes to binding arbitration with the understanding that any contract awarded is industry standard -- nothing below aggregate market rate. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
aaexecplat
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 103):
Under AA: 20% total reduction of compensation:

Reduced pay
Reduced vacation credit -- at least one third less per year
Reduced sick time credit -- ends up being about half of what we have now
Frozen pension
More hours scheduled for month -- up to 100 hours from the current 85
Higher health insurance premiums -- triple the cost
Higher out of pocket maximums for insurance -- triple the annual amounts
Higher deductibles -- at least five times as much
No retiree health insurance between 55 and 65 when medicare takes over.

US has marginal improvements in this, amounting to about 15% total reduction.

Were you really not aware of any of this? I mean there is at least some basic code and responsibility involved in coming here and posting this or that on a matter without having a certain basic understanding of the specifics of the situation.

I am aware of the generalities that you posted. What I would like to know are the EXACT terms and implications (for FAs), meaning:

- Pay for FAs is reduced from what hourly rate to what new hourly rate?
- Vacation credit for an average FA is reduced to how many days/hours?
- Sick Time credit for an average FA is reduced to how many days/hours?
- Pension frozen, but will AA match any part of 401k contributions, if so, what percentage?
- What is the cost of the "new" health insurance premiums for a family plan (HMO/PPO)
- What is the maximum out of pocket insurance amount annually for an FA?
- What are your deductibles going to be for FAs?
- How many hours do DL and UA FAs schedule per month (85/95/105?)

Not sure that the coverage between 55-65 is fair to even expect...not like anyone else in a non-unionized environment would ever have health care paid for if they retired before 65...

Looking forward to reading the specifics (and I am not glib about this...I have never seen the particulars on this posted anywhere, so this should really be educational).

Thanks.

P.S. If you feel uneasy to post this here, feel free to PM me.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:37 pm

If you want to know more about what AA is proposing check out the term sheets for each work group. AA has posted them online.

Here is the APFA section
http://www.restructuringamr.com/our-people-apfa.asp

Term sheet summary
http://www.restructuringamr.com/docu...Summary_Modification_32312_000.pdf

Nuts and bolts details
http://www.restructuringamr.com/docu...ts/APFATermSheet32212FINAL_000.PDF


You can review other work groups at your leisure

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JFKPurser
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting AAExecPlat (Reply 106):
I am aware of the generalities that you posted. What I would like to know are the EXACT terms and implications (for FAs), meaning:

- Pay for FAs is reduced from what hourly rate to what new hourly rate?
- Vacation credit for an average FA is reduced to how many days/hours?
- Sick Time credit for an average FA is reduced to how many days/hours?
- Pension frozen, but will AA match any part of 401k contributions, if so, what percentage?
- What is the cost of the "new" health insurance premiums for a family plan (HMO/PPO)
- What is the maximum out of pocket insurance amount annually for an FA?
- What are your deductibles going to be for FAs?
- How many hours do DL and UA FAs schedule per month (85/95/105?)

Not sure that the coverage between 55-65 is fair to even expect...not like anyone else in a non-unionized environment would ever have health care paid for if they retired before 65...

Looking forward to reading the specifics (and I am not glib about this...I have never seen the particulars on this posted anywhere, so this should really be educational).

Thanks.



There is a lot of explaining and information involved in answering this, and frankly, I really don't have the time to go through point by point and explain each item. Here is a link to AA's proposed terms on the APFA website:

http://www.apfa.org/images/bankruptcy/termsheet_22mar12.pdf

And here are there terms agreed to on the date US successfully takes over AMR:

http://www.apfa.org/content/view/2216/929/

They each contain much of the info you are asking for, but you will have to compare them for yourself. The AA vacation reduction involves something we call "trip drop", which has been in our contract for many decades now. If for example, you have a 14 day vacation from the 3rd to the 18th, and bid a schedule with trips that touch either end of that vacation period, you are removed fro each trip and paid for them, as well as any trips that fly during the remaining days in the middle. So if that 14 days removes you from three trips each worth 22 hours, you are being paid for 66 hours for your 14 day vacation. Under the AA plan, there is a flat 3 hours per day paid with no trip drop. Overall, this reduces the value of a 14 day vacation anywhere from 40 to 70 percent, depending upon how it works out -- the results vary by base and seniority and depend on whatever trips are available to bid. US will allow us to keep this under their bridge term sheet. It ends up being work several thousand dollars per year when calculated for 28 days of vacation split into two periods.

Hope this helps.
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:30 am

Quoting AAExecPlat (Reply 106):
Not sure that the coverage between 55-65 is fair to even expect...not like anyone else in a non-unionized environment would ever have health care paid for if they retired before 65...

Just FYI this was industry standard before the round of bankruptcies in the mid 2000s. WN still has it from what I understand. We were the last legacy to have it. We had been pre-funding it before retiring with monthly payments. AA wants to scrap it altogether, whereas US is willing to take the funded amount and apply it toward a VEBA plan which basically uses the amount of that fund to offset the costs for a group plan in the original plans place, but means a monthly insurance premium we would not have had pre-BK. For people close to retirement -- and there are many -- this is huge.

Also US accepted the FA early-out proposal that AA refused. It offers up to $40,000 for anyone at the top of the pay scale who leaves immediately, with travel benefits and full pension. This is one of the things APFA will be demanding in the current talks. We will probably see AA agree to it, since they are so desperate to get ratified agreements now.

[Edited 2012-07-03 18:32:20]
 
TUSAA
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:13 am

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 109):
Also US accepted the FA early-out proposal that AA refused. It offers up to $40,000 for anyone at the top of the pay scale who leaves immediately, with travel benefits and full pension. This is one of the things APFA will be demanding in the current talks. We will probably see AA agree to it, since they are so desperate to get ratified agreements now.

I dont see it happening due to a few issue's. If it were offered to the APFA, then the APA and TWU would expect the same deal under the 'Me Too Clause'. If they use the top of the pay scale metric, then 90% of AA's employees would be eligable to go. There are many employees who were hired at age 18 and have 30yrs seniority, but are only 48yrs old. I cant see AA giving them their retirement and travel benefits before 55. I sure wish they would, but dont see them doing it.
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:53 am

Quoting TUSAA (Reply 110):
I dont see it happening due to a few issue's. If it were offered to the APFA, then the APA and TWU would expect the same deal under the 'Me Too Clause'. If they use the top of the pay scale metric, then 90% of AA's employees would be eligable to go. There are many employees who were hired at age 18 and have 30yrs seniority, but are only 48yrs old. I cant see AA giving them their retirement and travel benefits before 55. I sure wish they would, but dont see them doing it.
APA and TWU never were interested in early out proposals, nor are they now. The APA never asked for one. Neither did the TWU. So we won't be seeing that from them -- nor will they be getting it. It is a top priority for APFA, and one that allows the company to hire new employees and pay them 50% less. So there is an initial cash outlay, but over time the proposal is cost-neutral, because it takes 15 years for that new-hire employee to begin costing AA the sam amount as the one they bought out. The estimate is that at least 2000 FAs would take the early out. UA offered it to their FAs a while back and gave them 60K each and I believe at least 1500 took it. UA seemed to think it was a financially smart move, and US seems to think so too, because Parker has agreed to it in the US bridge term. Nobody is asking to be able to retire at 48 and get their pension at 48 -- if that's what you are implying here. Under the early out proposal, you will be able to leave the company if you are 48 and take the $40,000 but you cannot start collecting your (reduced) retirement until you are 55. You can do the same thing today but without the 40K, and more limited travel benefits. I believe you are wrong. We will see this come out of the current negotiations without a doubt. If AA doesn't agree to it, there will likely be no TA sent out to the membership. And AA wants a TA -- desperately. Trust me on this one.

[Edited 2012-07-03 21:56:33]
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:54 am

An interesting read on the Dallas News Aviation Blog -- explanation of the reasons for the extension of exclusivity and filing of business plan. Makes perfect sense with all that is going on on each and every front -- works to everyones' advantage:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...ng-more-time-to-propose-plan.html/
 
TUSAA
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:31 am

The TWU is being offered a earlyout package right now, but it's not as good as the one the APFA is seeking. The TWU will want the same as the APFA is getting under the ME TOO Clause. The agents were also offered a similar package as the TWU and their deadline has passed, over 500 agents took it. My understanding is that anybody who takes the package and is under age 50 will loose all travel benefits forever.
 
aaexecplat
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:13 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 108):
They each contain much of the info you are asking for, but you will have to compare them for yourself.

Thanks for posting the term sheet. Unfortunately, the second link you posted says I can't access it. If you know of another location for the US term sheet, please let me know.

Thanks again.
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting TUSAA (Reply 113):

The TWU is being offered a earlyout package right now, but it's not as good as the one the APFA is seeking. The TWU will want the same as the APFA is getting under the ME TOO Clause. The agents were also offered a similar package as the TWU and their deadline has passed, over 500 agents took it. My understanding is that anybody who takes the package and is under age 50 will loose all travel benefits forever.

Thanks for clarifying -- I asked and was told TWU wasn't concerned with early out.
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:48 pm

Quoting AAExecPlat (Reply 114):
Thanks for posting the term sheet. Unfortunately, the second link you posted says I can't access it. If you know of another location for the US term sheet, please let me know.

Thanks again.

Copied and pasted:

APFA/US Airways Bridge Term Sheet Highlights - April 20, 2012
Early Out APFA's proposal accepted
No Furloughs
Wage Increases: 2.5% on effective date. 1.5% annually over next 5 years.
Retirement: Pension plan frozen. Replaced with a 401(k) contribution.
Current employees will receive automatic 401(k) contributions for 5 years, with no match requirement. Contribution levels as follows:
9.9% age 50 +
6.75% age 40 – 50
5.5% age 39 – below
At the conclusion of the 5 year period, all FAs would receive a 3% contribution with up to a 5.5% match.
Active Health Benefits: Better than AA’s proposed plan
Retiree Health Benefits: Implementation of Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA).
Bidding: Preferential Bidding System (PBS) with our input
Reserve:
Incorporate earlier Reserve assignment notification
Add AM/PM Ready Reserve shifts.
Allow Reserve pick-up on days off to be paid on top of guarantee.
Current reserve rotation will be maintained.
Sequence Pay Protection: APFA proposal
Schedule Maximum:
Minimum of seventy (70) credit hours and a maximum of ninety (90) credit hours per bid period.
Flex in the maximum line value by an annual amount of twenty (20) hours, but in no case more than five (5) hours during any given month.
Incentive Pay/Per Diem: Incentive pay eliminated. Per diem rates increased to:
Domestic: $2.00
International: $2.20
International Override:
$3.00 per hour for each international leg. Override for deadhead, trip and duty rigs and trips “not flown” consistent with CBA
Combined Domestic & International Operation
Current Duty Rigs Preserved
Expedited Negotiations for New Contract: Negotiations for a market based contract will take place immediately following a single-carrier certification. If an agreement cannot be reached within 60 days of the certification the matter will be submitted to final binding arbitration.
Maintain all other provisions in our current Contract including:
Vacation accrual and pay
Current PVDs
Sick hour use and current sick policy
Current Hotel language
ATC/ Code 59
Galley pay
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:50 pm

A few aircraft items scheduled for court hearings this week.

o Negotiations extension covering 216 ERJ aircraft
o Extension covering 3 MD-80 aircraft – N9302, 9304, 931
o Extension covering 3 B767-300 – N355, N358, N363
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:20 pm

AA and two TWU units (mechanics & stores) reach a TA.

TWU, American announce tentative agreements
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...nnounce-tentative-agreements.html/

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JFKPurser
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:33 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 118):
AA and two TWU units (mechanics & stores) reach a TA.

APFA and TWU forced Horton into agreeing to opening the books to US in exchange for these TAs, even though Horton is taking credit for it to make it look like he's not being forced into the US deal by his employees. The FA TA will be coming out shortly.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:35 pm

BK process is not cheap.

Professional fees have now topped the $100mil mark since the Novembers Ch.11 filing.

We’ve hit $100 million in fees on the AMR-American Airlines bankruptcy case
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...can-airlines-bankruptcy-case.html/

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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:22 pm

American Eagle pilots expect the company to seek a 1113 motion by the end of the month unless they can reach an agreement with the company on the contract changes it seeks.

Pilot negotiators say American Eagle may ask for contract rejections soon
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...for-contract-rejections-soon.html/

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GSPSPOT
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:28 pm

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 101):
The combined networkd of AA and US will be VERY strong however just not now.

AA needs a true Southeastern hub and more presence in this region, IMO. MIA doesn't do that - it links major U.S. markets with the Caribbean and Latin America. AA currently is just not a viable alternative to DL (ATL) and US (CLT) for most folks traveling within the Southeast. Flying back to DFW to connect such markets seems inefficient and consumes assets that could probably be put to better use elsewhere.
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:45 pm

Like their mainline brothers, the Eagle pilot group is meeting directly with US Airways to discuss how a future AE would serve a merged airline.

American Eagle pilot leaders are meeting with US Airways
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...-are-meeting-with-us-airways.html/

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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:35 pm

Agenda items for this week.

Interesting to note AMR is now seeking to extend their exclusivity period till February 2013.



o Negotiations extension covering 3 B757s – N174, N178 and N179AA
o Accept various domestic use and lease airport agreements and payment of cure amounts at AUS, DEN, ORD, COS, CRP, DAL, DAY, DAY, DSM, IAH, LAX, PSP, PHL, STL, SJT, SJC, SBA, SGF, SYR, TLH, TUL, TYR, LAS, CAE, FAT, MQT, EYW, HPN, MSN, MSP, ABI, EGE, EVV & FSM
o Accept various international use and lease agreements and payment of cure amounts at MDE, GUA, SDQ, SAL, CCS, TGU, EZE, LIR, PUJ, CUR, DUB, MEX, SJO, UIO, PAP, MGA, GRU, MAO, BCN, BOG, HEL, KIN, & ZRH
o Stipulation between AMR and Miami-Dade County, Dallas/Ft Worth, City of Baton Rouge, and City of Phoenix extending hearing regarding assumption of lease agreements. AA agrees to pay any cure amounts due, but makes no determination as to assumption of agreements.
o Application to employ Bernstein, Shur, Sawyer & Nelson, as Counsel
o Application to Employ Stuart Maue as Consultant
o Order Authorizing the Employment and Retention of Jenner & Block LLP as Attorneys for the Retiree Committee
o Motion to Intervene by TWA Pilots Seniority Defense Fund LLC
o Authorize AA to purchase 10 MD-80 aircraft.
o Authorizing, but not directing, AMR rights to exercise Boeing 777 aircraft purchase rights as deemed appropriate
o Motion to extend Exclusivity Periods further to February 28, 2013
o Objection to motion of Willis Lease Finance Corporation demand of lease and administrative claims covering returned engines.
o Extension of prelimary stay on pending 3rd party claims against AMR

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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:07 pm

Court extended exclusively period till the end of December.

Court extends exclusivity period to Dec. 28 in American Airlines case
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...28-in-american-airlines-case.html/

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Revelation
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:19 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 125):
Court extends exclusivity period to Dec. 28 in American Airlines case

Interesting that the article says the extension was requested by AA and the creditor's committee as well...
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flyguy89
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:02 pm

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 122):
AA currently is just not a viable alternative to DL (ATL) and US (CLT) for most folks traveling within the Southeast.

Well neither is UA/CO or B6...airlines can't be all things to all people. I agree with TWA85, a combined AA/US would be a strong carrier, just not now.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:03 pm

To head off the 1113 motion, APFA will send out AA's last, best and final offer for a membership vote.

Vote timing still TBA.

story:
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...flight-attendants-for-a-vote.html/

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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:48 pm

Some more hearings items this week –


All fleet related.

o Approval of negotiations extension covering 7 MD-80s – N7375, 7522, 7538, 7527, 951, 9627, 974
o Approval of negotiations extension covering 17 B757’s – N610, 612, 615, 616, 618, 619, 620, 622, 623, 624, 625, 630, 642, 645, 647, 650, 652
o Approval of negotiations extension covering 6 B767’s – N323, 366, 369, 371, 374, 376
o Proposed revised stipulation concerning protection of aircraft financing parties


Kinda funny its been 8-months now, and still debating over such a large number of aircraft leases, something which the law normally provides for a 60-day window to either accept or reject.
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:13 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 129):

Kinda funny its been 8-months now, and still debating over such a large number of aircraft leases, something which the law normally provides for a 60-day window to either accept or reject.

Interesting indeed. Since you follow this pretty closely, are the hearings for aircraft leases pro-forma? Meaning that almost all get accepted?
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:37 pm

Well usually an airline has an idea of what it wants to keep, and what it wants to reject.

For the stuff they want to keep, they will often try to bargain new lower terms on, however obviously this is often dictated by outside market realities.
For example United had a gun to lessors heads during its BK thanks to major industry downturn post 9/11 and was able to achieve some huge rate concessions. I'm not sure how successful AA would be doing so today except maybe on its MD-80s.

But what surprises me about AA case is the lack of rejections or acceptance. Seems they keep filing to endless 30 or 60 day extension without reaching terms either way. Maybe this is part of the game, to drag things out as long as possible before committing one way or the other, but as I've said I've been surprised by the lack of finality either way in this case with the aircraft.
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:53 pm

A few small items planned for this week.

o Negotiations extension covering 3 B737s – N974, 975, 976
o Negotiations extension covering 1 MD-80 0 N976TW
o Amendment of case management procedures covering scheduling, hearing and notification process
o Relief from stay covering pending litigation involving Port Authority of NY & NJ and AA as co-defendants.

=
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:48 pm

Some news about AE.

The company and AFA representing AE flight attendants reached an agreement on a revised contract.
This is the second AE deal, with the TWU covering mechanics having reached a pack two weeks back.

The AE pilots however still have no deal in place, and per their membership message expect the company to seek an 1113 motion "soon".

Story:
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...endants-reach-tentative-deal.html/

=
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ckfred
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 128):
To head off the 1113 motion, APFA will send out AA's last, best and final offer for a membership vote.

Vote timing still TBA.

Interesting. I know a few AA pilots. Some think that Parker is the guy who will save AA and return it to the position of industry leadership that AA enjoyed under Bob Crandall, and they will see vastly improved wages and benefits.

Others think that Doug Parker is another airline executive who cut his teeth under Crandall and is no better than Carty, Arpey, and Horton. He's making promises that he can't or won't keep, in order to get a hold of AA. As much as they believe that Horton isn't the CEO who can lead AA after bankruptcy, they believe that Horton is right that US needs AA far worse than AA needs US. They think they would be better off to take the best offer that AA has, get out of Chapter 11, and lobby the new shareholders (presumably creditors including the unions, Boeing, the PBGC, and some large banks) to sack current management and bring in a new team.

While I would be inclined to call the APA narrowly approving the tentative agreement, I probably would be a bit more surprised if APFA ratifed AA's last offer. My guess is that the union leadership doesn't want the judge to view the union in a bad light, if he has to make a Section 1113 ruling. So, they sent out a contract for a ratification vote, albeit with no recommendation to approve.
 
HPRamper
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 134):
Interesting. I know a few AA pilots. Some think that Parker is the guy who will save AA and return it to the position of industry leadership that AA enjoyed under Bob Crandall, and they will see vastly improved wages and benefits.

Which may be the case, but the question would be, would those improved wages and benefits sink the company?

Quoting ckfred (Reply 134):
As much as they believe that Horton isn't the CEO who can lead AA after bankruptcy, they believe that Horton is right that US needs AA far worse than AA needs US.

I don't even think Parker would argue that point. He may not have said so, but he certainly hasn't said otherwise.
 
TSS
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:26 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 134):
Other (pilot)s think that Doug Parker is another airline executive who cut his teeth under Crandall and is no better than Carty, Arpey, and Horton. He's making promises that he can't or won't keep, in order to get a hold of AA.

It's good to hear that some AA pilots have a dose of healthy cynicism in their personalities. Put another way, just because the nice man is offering you candy is no reason to willingly climb into the back of his windowless van.
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:26 pm

Court items for this week -

o Extension of time to negotiate covering 13 MD-80s – N584, 587, 588, 589, 59523, 7530, 7531, 7537, 7539, 7543, 7544, 16545, 70529
o Approving settlement agreement covering 5 B757s – N614, 626, 629 632, 648
o Approving settlement agreement covering 1 M80 – N59523
o Motion for certification of claims against American Eagle
o Motion for certification of claims against American Airlines
o Motion to lift automatic stay covering pending litigation regarding whistle blower claims against AA
o Authority to employ Paul Hastings LLP as special litigation counsel
o Authority to employ Ford & Harrison LLP as special counsel
o Authority to employ Cooley LLP as special counsel
o Authority to employ Kelly Hart & Hallman LLP as special litigation counsel
o Authorizing assumption of certain unexpired leases with City of Chicago
o Judgment declaring retirees have no vested right to health benefits and that benefits may be unilaterally modified
o Extension of time to negotiate covering property leases and contracts at JFK, TUL, LAX, ONT, MSY, BDL, EWR, BWI


We also expect to hear results of APA vote this week. Voting ends on Wednesday.
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norcal
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:24 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 136):
Put another way, just because the nice man is offering you candy is no reason to willingly climb into the back of his windowless van.

It might be if the alternative is a broken home with an abusive alcoholic daddy who beats you senseless all the time. At least this way you might get a little candy before the pain.
 
AAIL86
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 137):
Judgment declaring retirees have no vested right to health benefits and that benefits may be unilaterally modified

I understand that the company is in bankruptcy, but this is absurd. If you worked 50 years for a company its fair to say you have the right to the medical benefits they promised you in retirement.
" Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness ... Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ” - Mark Twain, 1869
 
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ADent
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:50 am

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 139):
I understand that the company is in bankruptcy, but this is absurd. If you worked 50 years for a company its fair to say you have the right to the medical benefits they promised you in retirement.

Maybe so, but this is very common in the US - even in companies that don't go bankrupt.

PS Thanx LAXIntl for your continuing posts.

[Edited 2012-08-07 17:51:46]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:52 am

Dumping of pensions, and other retiree benefits is quite common these days. In essence its these things that are strangling business.

For every 1 employee, some companies (General Motors for instance) had 6 retirees they needed to fund. GM's accrued liability was $109billion for almost 420,000 retirees when is entered its own BK. Now that is absurd.

Yes sad for the people involved, but truly absurd for business to be stuck with such an endless growing liability into infinitum.
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par13del
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:09 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 141):
GM's accrued liability was $109billion for almost 420,000 retirees when is entered its own BK. Now that is absurd.

It was not absurd when they used those benefits to attract and keep the best and the brightest workers that they wanted.
It does make you wonder why the general population have an issue with athletes wanting all their money up front, maybe they recognize the futility of promises while the general population does not.

Another issue is how companies handle deductions from staff salaries used to fund some benefits, unions also take part of the blame here, mandating that third parties be used to secure funds would eliminate some of the problem, when matching deductions are required, both sides should pay up at the same time, as most Chpt.11 filings have shown, companies usually start falling behind almost immediately after the contracts are signed.

All in all a bad day for those who stuck around and gave it their all based on promises, show me the money should always be the mantra since the only one you can really rely on is yourself.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:53 pm

By a squeaker (50.25% in favor) TWU mechanics and store clerks approved the airlines concessionary contract offer.

Still waiting to hear APA results today.
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commavia
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:58 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 143):
Still waiting to hear APA results today.

61%-39% NO
 
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william
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:02 pm

So what happens now with pilots? Does the Judge now force AA's term sheet on them?
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:08 pm

Well the 1113 motion was already filed, and is simply pending a ruling which the judge put off till August 15th.

So come next week, the court indeed could impose terms if it decides to act.

For reference the flight attendant voting still runs till August 19th.
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ckfred
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:25 pm

Quoting william (Reply 145):
So what happens now with pilots? Does the Judge now force AA's term sheet on them?

I was just looking at the APA website, and I found something by a Captain Jacque Johnson, who is from the LAX crew base.

He made an interesting observation. If the contract was voted down, and management decided to pursue its 1113 motion, then Delta will wind up with a Miami hub in the manner that American got its Miami hub.

For those of you who are getting what Captain Johnson is alluding to, AA got the MIA hub by buying it, after Eastern converted its bankruptcy petition from Chapter 11 (reorganization) to Chapter 7 (liquidation).

If 61% of AA pilots voted against a contract, that certainly gives anyone interested (management, current employees, retirees, and future passengers) a concern that success by management on its 1113 motion could lead to a work stoppage, or at least a higher-than-normal rate of pilots calling in sick.

If the judge does impose the term sheet, the question becomes whether AA can survive until the period of exclusivity lapses and US can offer its reorg. plan.
 
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william
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:31 pm

@ckfred

Interesting, but with the slow travel season almost here, billions in the bank, and an election this fall, I would not be suprised for AA to call the APA's bluff.
 
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william
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RE: AMR Bankruptcy Court Thread Part 2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:35 pm

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