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aircanadaa330
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Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:28 pm

Hi everyone,


I did a search and didn't find anything that would help,so if someone knows where to find the answer, please let me know.

I am just wondering if there is away to find out which countries that do not block foreign ownership of airlines. I know there are a few,but I wasnt sure if there was a site that lists them all.

thanks
Cheers;
 
Arcano
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:27 pm

Chile doesn't, anybody can ran and/or own an airline after certification, foreigner ir not, and any foreing airline can fly domestically selling tickets without asking reciprocity for domestic carriers in their origin country.

Regards )( Arcano
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Gemuser
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:56 pm

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Thread starter):
I am just wondering if there is away to find out which countries that do not block foreign ownership of airlines. I know there are a few,but I wasnt sure if there was a site that lists them all.

I don't know of any list, sorry, but you can add Australia & New Zealand to the list. Both countries allow 100% foreign ownership of local airlines. Please note that the the foreign airline must establish a local subsidiary company to operate domestic services, they can't just do it as a tag on.

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SCL767
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting Arcano (Reply 1):
and any foreing airline can fly domestically selling tickets without asking reciprocity for domestic carriers in their origin country.

Isn't it ironic that both PAL and Sky Airline are throwing tantrums over this and are taking it to the courts; whereas LAN supports it...
 
aircanadaa330
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:23 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 3):
LAN supports it

I am actually surprised by this...I wonder why they support it.
Cheers;
 
SCL767
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:34 pm

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 4):
I am actually surprised by this...I wonder why they support it.

To increase competition in the Chilean domestic market; which is currently growing at a rapid rate. Domestic traffic with-in Chile grew by 18.4% during April 2012 as compared to April 2011. The Uruguayan carrier Pluna recently relaunched domestic operations with-in Chile and plans to open new domestic routes in the coming months. Also, another country that permits total foreign ownership of airlines is Colombia.
 
aircanadaa330
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 5):
To increase competition in the Chilean domestic market; which is currently growing at a rapid rate. Domestic traffic with-in Chile grew by 18.4% during April 2012 as compared to April 2011

I would think that LAN would like to grow to fill that need within Chile...or are they trying to cause problems for the smaller airlines by supporting this?
Cheers;
 
SCL767
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:05 am

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 6):
I would think that LAN would like to grow to fill that need within Chile

LAN implemented the "laser model" on domestic flights in 2006; which is the reason why the domestic market is growing rapidly. The "laser model" allows LAN to offer significantly lower airfares by operating single-class flights with new a/c with short turnaround times, similar to LCCs. However, unlike most LCCs, passengers on these flights are permitted free luggage allowances, free drinks and snacks, the option to select their seats, earn and redeem frequent flyer points, etc.

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 6):
or are they trying to cause problems for the smaller airlines by supporting this?

Certain domestic carrier(s) objected to LAN's merger with TAM and demanded numerous mitigation measures. LAN believes that by opening the domestic market, it would increase competition in Chile, and the TDLC agreed with this measure.
 
jumpjets
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:11 am

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 4):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 3):LAN supports it
I am actually surprised by this...I wonder why they support it.

Also when you look at LANs pan-South American expansions of recent years it would be kind of hypocritical to argue have its Chilean market protected whilst penetrating the domestic markets of other countries with its various investments in Peru etc.
 
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Polot
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:16 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 8):
Also when you look at LANs pan-South American expansions of recent years it would be kind of hypocritical to argue have its Chilean market protected whilst penetrating the domestic markets of other countries with its various investments in Peru etc.

  
I'm sure in the end LAN could care less if Chile had more domestic competition. They are doing it to help support their own investments in other countries.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:21 pm

In some cases, especially for the USA, foreign ownership is strictly limited. In parts is about 'national security', assuring access to commercial aircraft for military needs, protecting domestic based carriers as well as keeping profits (but also losses) inside the country.
 
qf002
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:22 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 2):
I don't know of any list, sorry, but you can add Australia & New Zealand to the list. Both countries allow 100% foreign ownership of local airlines. Please note that the the foreign airline must establish a local subsidiary company to operate domestic services, they can't just do it as a tag on.

And foreign owned Australian airlines are restricted to operating domestic services only. Only Australian owned airlines are allowed to operate International services (including Tasman flights) based out of Australia.
 
SCL767
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:36 pm

Quoting poLot (Reply 9):
I'm sure in the end LAN could care less if Chile had more domestic competition. They are doing it to help support their own investments in other countries.

LAN does not decide aviation policies in Chile. The Chilean Civil Aeronautics Board (JAC), regulates aviation policies and regulations in Chile. Chile has very liberal policies concerning competition and is also a very transparent country which encourages direct foreign investment. Chile also has Open Skies Treaties with many countries. Chile implemented OS with the U.S. 13 years ago; whereas other South American countries are now implementing OS treaties with the U.S. Foreign owned airlines have launched domestic carriers in Chile in the past. For example, Air Comet Chile launched operations in Chile in 2004. Chile has also permitted certain foreign carriers to operate domestic passenger and cargo flights with-in Chile in the past, i.e. Pluna has already operated domestic flights with-in Chile and just recently relaunched domestic operations in Chile for the second time.
 
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Polot
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:50 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 12):
LAN does not decide aviation policies in Chile.

I never said they did. You were the one who was bringing up how much LAN supports Chile's decision. I was bringing up an explanation on why.
 
SCL767
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:05 pm

Quoting poLot (Reply 13):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 12):
LAN does not decide aviation policies in Chile.

I never said they did. You were the one who was bringing up how much LAN supports Chile's decision. I was bringing up an explanation on why.

I fail to see your point since LA cannot operate domestic flights in any other country except Chile. LAN Airlines S.A. has passenger and cargo affiliates in seven different countries and operates those affiliates under the foreign ownership laws of those respective countries. For example, LAN Airlines S.A. only owns 49% of LAN Perú S.A. The only LAN affiliate carrier that LAN Airlines S.A. owns a majority of besides LAN Express, LAN Cargo S.A. and Línea Aérea Carguera de Colombia S.A. is LAN Colombia.

[Edited 2012-06-02 08:38:38]
 
aircanadaa330
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:36 pm

So does Chile allow foreign owned airlines to fly international, or is it like Australia and they can only fly domestic?

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 10):
In some cases, especially for the USA, foreign ownership is strictly limited. In parts is about 'national security', assuring access to commercial aircraft for military needs, protecting domestic based carriers as well as keeping profits (but also losses) inside the country

I can understand this, Im just puzzled to why other countries allow it. I can see the point of SCL767 where Chile is looking to increase competition on the domestic market.

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 8):
Also when you look at LANs pan-South American expansions of recent years it would be kind of hypocritical to argue have its Chilean market protected whilst penetrating the domestic markets of other countries with its various investments in Peru etc.

Yes that is acutally what brought on my curiosity. LAN seems to have so many airlines in South America, and I think they bought TAM (that or TAM bought them) so it just puzzled me.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
LAN Airlines S.A. only owns 49% of LAN Perú S.A

I take it that its a licensing agreement to have the LAN name then?

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
I fail to see your point since LA cannot operate domestic flights in any other country except Chile

But isn't LAN Chile, LAN Argentina, LAN Columbia, LAN Peru the same company? Or is it more of a Virgin America Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Australia situation?

What about TACA? Doesn't it own TACA Peru?
Cheers;
 
SCL767
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:23 pm

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 15):
So does Chile allow foreign owned airlines to fly international, or is it like Australia and they can only fly domestic?

Yes, Chile would permit foreign owned airlines to fly international routes. For example, in 1999 the Peruvian carrier Aero Continente launched a Chilean subsidiary, Aero Continente Chile, which operated international routes including the SCL-LIM-MIA route.

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 15):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
LAN Airlines S.A. only owns 49% of LAN Perú S.A

I take it that its a licensing agreement to have the LAN name then?

LAN Chile's first foreign passenger subsidiary, LAN Perú, launched flights in 1999. LAN Perú's headquarters is located in Lima and also has Peruvian shareholders. In 2002, LAN Chile launched another subsidiary, LAN Ecuador, which is based in Guayaquil. In 2004, LAN Chile launched LAN Argentina which is based in Buenos Aires and LAN Chile rebranded itself as LAN Airlines S.A. In 2010, LAN Airlines S.A. acquired the Colombian carrier AIRES and rebranded it as LAN Colombia late last year. LAN Airlines S.A. is currently the parent company of all the LAN passenger and cargo affiliate carriers.

However, this will change this month as LAN Airlines S.A. and all of its subsidiaries will combine with TAM Linhas Aéreas S.A. and its affiliates, Pantanal Linhas Aéreas S.A., TAM Airlines Paraguay and TAM Cargo to form a new airline group: LATAM Airlines Group S.A.
 
aircanadaa330
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:47 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 16):
LAN Ecuador

So would that mean that Ecuador would be open to foreign investment over 50%?
Cheers;
 
SCL767
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:55 pm

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 17):
So would that mean that Ecuador would be open to foreign investment over 50%?

Yes. However consolidation has already occurred in the Ecuadorian domestic market with three main carriers operating domestic routes.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:17 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 11):

And foreign owned Australian airlines are restricted to operating domestic services only. Only Australian owned airlines are allowed to operate International services (including Tasman flights) based out of Australia.

While this is true, is it an Australian government prohibition or just the natural result of most (all) bi-laterals requiring the airlines from the other country to be majority owned by that country?

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jigarciar
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:25 am

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Thread starter):
I am just wondering if there is away to find out which countries that do not block foreign ownership of airlines. I know there are a few,but I wasnt sure if there was a site that lists them all.

As has been said here, Chile is probably the pioneer in waiving foreign ownership and substantial control requisites. This is a very complicated matter, since it is necessary to coordinate both domestic and international law. In the domestic side, most of the states - as it is the case in the US and EU Member States - have in their local laws a rule limiting foreign ownership to a certain percentage. For waiving this restriction, a state shall start with changing this rule. Once changed, the state has to enter into negotiations with third countries to modify bilateral air services agreements, since most of them, concluded under the "Bermuda II" model worldwide, have included the possibility to revoke the operational authorization of an airline in case it is considered that the airline is not anymore substantially owned and effectively controlled by nationals of the designating state.

I can speak for Colombia: 100% of foreign ownership is allowed in airlines and most of bilaterals have been renegotiated in this sense. This is why it is lawful for Colombia to designate airlines such as LAN Colombia (AIRES) and Copa Airlines Colombia (AeroRepública) to provide scheduled international air services. Even the US has been flexible in this matter in practice by allowing all these kind of carriers to operate to and from the US although not substantially owned and effectively controlled by nationals of the designating state. For this matter, I would recommend you to have a look at Air & Space Law journal 37 (2) published a few months ago.
 
qf002
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:35 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 19):
While this is true, is it an Australian government prohibition or just the natural result of most (all) bi-laterals requiring the airlines from the other country to be majority owned by that country?

Excellent point. I know that the SAM with NZ is restricted only to Australian/NZ owned airlines (this is the restriction TT faces), but I'm not entirely sure beyond that.

The treaties I've glanced through seem to suggest that the definition is left to the respective governments (ie referring to 'Australian Carriers' then simply defining these as being 'carriers offering international air services'). I can't find anything beyond that...

Would be interesting to find out though.
 
aircanadaa330
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:43 pm

So just so I understand:

Chile
Argentina
Columbia
Ecuador
Australia
New Zealand

All allow foreign ownership? Seems like most of South America is fine with it but the rest of the world is not.

Quoting jigarciar (Reply 20):
I would recommend you to have a look at Air & Space Law journal 37 (2) published a few months ago.

Excellent I will look up that now

thanks
Cheers;
 
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zeke
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:57 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 11):
And foreign owned Australian airlines are restricted to operating domestic services only. Only Australian owned airlines are allowed to operate International services (including Tasman flights) based out of Australia.

That sounds like the Convention on International Civil Aviation to me, it would be the standard practice around the world. As far as Tasman flights, I think there is a special allowance for NZ registered aircraft.
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lanperu
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:36 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
For example, LAN Airlines S.A. only owns 49% of LAN Perú S.A.

Actually, this is incorrect. According to all the "memoria annuales", LAN Chile owns a certain amount and LAN Cargo owns the rest of the majority, which is 75% if I am not mistaken.

I am happy LAN is in Peru because it has changed a lot. but they also know how to work the Peruvian system, which the airline has no fault is the way it is. It happens a lot with companies that are non-aviation too.
 
aircanadaa330
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting LanPeru (Reply 24):
Actually, this is incorrect. According to all the "memoria annuales", LAN Chile owns a certain amount and LAN Cargo owns the rest of the majority, which is 75% if I am not mistaken

So does that mean that Peru allows foreign ownership?
Cheers;
 
Viscount724
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:46 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 23):
Quoting qf002 (Reply 11):
And foreign owned Australian airlines are restricted to operating domestic services only. Only Australian owned airlines are allowed to operate International services (including Tasman flights) based out of Australia.

That sounds like the Convention on International Civil Aviation to me, it would be the standard practice around the world. As far as Tasman flights, I think there is a special allowance for NZ registered aircraft.

As I understand it, there's a "single market" bilateral between Australia and New Zealand, much like the EU single market agreement. It permits Australian carriers to operate domestic services in New Zealand and vice versa, just like any EU-based carrier can operate anywhere within the EU, both internatonal and domestic.
 
qf002
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 23):
That sounds like the Convention on International Civil Aviation to me, it would be the standard practice around the world.

It goes much further than the CICA -- these are Australian airlines operating with Australian licences and under Australian laws and guidelines. My understanding was that Australian airlines that are foreign owned were restricted by Australian legislation from operating international services as opposed to simply being the government exercising their right to restrict foreign airlines servicing routes. I might well be wrong, and it could just be a proxy of the wording of international treaties...

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 26):
As I understand it, there's a "single market" bilateral between Australia and New Zealand, much like the EU single market agreement. It permits Australian carriers to operate domestic services in New Zealand and vice versa, just like any EU-based carrier can operate anywhere within the EU, both internatonal and domestic.

   SAM = Single Aviation Market, which essentially removes all barriers to service between the two.
 
dhr
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:27 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 19):
While this is true, is it an Australian government prohibition or just the natural result of most (all) bi-laterals requiring the airlines from the other country to be majority owned by that country?

Australian Laws prohibit foreign owned local airlines to operate International routes and only majority Australian owned airlines can operate internationally. On top of this, most of the air bilaterals would prohibit foreign owned Australian airlines operating to their countries unless an open skies deal is in place.

If I recall Singapore Airlines has been lobbying for years to access AUS-USA routes.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:06 am

Quoting dhr (Reply 28):
Australian Laws prohibit foreign owned local airlines to operate International routes and only majority Australian owned airlines can operate internationally.

This was my point in Reply 19, what Australian law?

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aircanadaa330
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:29 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 11):
And foreign owned Australian airlines are restricted to operating domestic services only. Only Australian owned airlines are allowed to operate International services (including Tasman flights) based out of Australia.

Why does Australia allow this? Is there high demand for air travel? With two large airlines Im surprised that the government would be open to this, not to mention Virgin and Qantas being fine with this

[Edited 2012-06-03 18:33:36]
Cheers;
 
blrBird
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:38 am

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 22):
So just so I understand:

Chile
Argentina
Columbia
Ecuador
Australia
New Zealand

Add 'Singapore' to this list
from star dust....
 
aircanadaa330
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:12 am

Quoting blrBird (Reply 31):
Add 'Singapore' to this list

Really? I would never have guessed Singapore
Cheers;
 
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zeke
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:35 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 27):
My understanding was that Australian airlines that are foreign owned were restricted by Australian legislation from operating international services as opposed to simply being the government exercising their right to restrict foreign airlines servicing routes.

That is not correct, to operate internationally in or out of Australia, any airline needs to obtain an International Airline Licence, for Australian AOC holders, the requirement is that they have 51% Australian ownership before being issued a licence. http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/aviation/international/ial/index.aspx

Foreign airline operating into Australia also have to obtain licences, and they also have to obtain a Foreign AOC from CASA.

Quoting dhr (Reply 28):

Australian Laws prohibit foreign owned local airlines to operate International routes and only majority Australian owned airlines can operate internationally. On top of this, most of the air bilaterals would prohibit foreign owned Australian airlines operating to their countries unless an open skies deal is in place.

That is not just Australia, most countries are the same. The airlines in Australia that I am aware are foreign owned would be Skywest, Rex, and Tiger, all majority Singaporean owned, none of them can operate internationally.

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 30):

Why does Australia allow this? Is there high demand for air travel? With two large airlines Im surprised that the government would be open to this, not to mention Virgin and Qantas being fine with this

It is not just Australia.

Quoting blrBird (Reply 31):

Add 'Singapore' to this list

Singapore also requires International AOC holders to be 51% Singaporean owned, e,g, Jetstar Asia is majority Singaporean owned.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
qf002
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:35 am

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 30):
Why does Australia allow this?

To encourage competition I guess. The legislation dates back to the AN/QF days, when the industry here was very different to how it is today. There have also been issues in the past with attracting investment to essential services in Australia, so this might have been an attempt to the government to open this industry up to money from overseas.

I also think it's interesting that any foreign foray into domestic services has failed pretty miserably. TT has come the closest to being successful, but they have hardly had smooth sailing.

Quoting zeke (Reply 33):

Ahhh, thank you! In effect, foreign owned Australian airlines are restricted by law from operating international services, it's just not explicitly stated in the legislation.
 
SCL767
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:31 am

Quoting LanPeru (Reply 24):
Actually, this is incorrect. According to all the "memoria annuales", LAN Chile owns a certain amount and LAN Cargo owns the rest of the majority, which is 75% if I am not mistaken.

IIRC, LAN Airlines S.A. recently increased ownership of LAN Perú S.A. greater than 70%. LAN Airlines S.A. owns 49% of LAN Argentina.

Quoting LanPeru (Reply 24):
I am happy LAN is in Peru because it has changed a lot. but they also know how to work the Peruvian system, which the airline has no fault is the way it is.

LAN knows how to establish affiliates or even acquire other carriers in different countries; even though foreign ownership laws are significantly less than 49%, i.e. LAN is technically acquiring TAM Brasil. LATAM has major plans for its hub at LIM; which will soon become a primary hub for LATAM.


TAM Linhas Aéreas S.A. of Brasil also owns 95% of TAM Airlines Paraguay.
 
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zeke
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:40 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 34):
Australian airlines are restricted by law from operating international services, it's just not explicitly stated in the legislation.

It is in legalisation, it is contained in the Act that ratified the Paris and Chicago conventions in Australia, the relevant act is the "Air Navigation Act 1920" which came into effect after the Convention Relating to the Regulation of Aerial Navigation, 13 October 1919 (aka the Paris Convention). Most ICAO members have a similar piece of legislation that ratified the same ICAO convention, hence these rules are somewhat universal.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Joost
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:07 pm

There are two things being mixed up in this thread:
a) foreign ownership in airlines
b) allowing foreign airlines to operate 7th, 8th or 9th freedom rights (domestic services in country A, or services from country A to B, by a carrier from country C)

These two are very closely related, but certainly not the same.

a) is about: in what way does a country allow foreign investors to hold shares in an airline that is considered to be incorporated in a country. For the US, for example, there is a maximum of 25%. In many other countries, the limit is 49%; and there are countries that have no problems at all for foreign investors to start an airline in their country (for example: Australia).

b) is about:
1) do countries allow foreign airlines to operate domestic services (i.e. Spain allowing Ryanair flying MAD-ALC)
2) do countries allow foreign airlines (from a third country) to operate international services fromtheir country (i.e. Spain allowing Ryanair flying MAD-NRN)
3) do countries allow foreign airlines (from a third country) to operate international services to their country (i.e. Germany allowing Ryanair flying MAD-NRN)
4) On what grounds do countries 'qualify' an airline as foreign

Quoting zeke (Reply 36):
It is in legalisation, it is contained in the Act that ratified the Paris and Chicago conventions in Australia, the relevant act is the "Air Navigation Act 1920" which came into effect after the Convention Relating to the Regulation of Aerial Navigation, 13 October 1919 (aka the Paris Convention).

Contrary to popular opinion, international law regarding these issues is quite vague. The most important clause of the 1920 air navigation act, and the 1949 Chicago convention is:

"Every state has complete and absolute sovereignty of the airspace above it's territory"

When it's about operating domestic services, there is only one country that has to agree on this. So for example, Australia can unilaterally make a law that allows foreign airlines to operate domestic services.

When it's about operating international services, two countries need to agree. So if Australia and New Zealand would both agree on carriers from other countries than Australia and New Zealand (for example Tiger Airways) to start air services, there is no international law that prevents them from allowing this.
 
qf002
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:13 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 36):
Quoting joost (Reply 37):
international law regarding these issues is quite vague.

My understanding is that the international treaties are a framework that were agreed to to ensure some consistency when services cross multiple jurisdictions. Rather than dictating the shape of services, they dictate the rights of governments in controlling services.

I'm wondering though, if Australia was to grant a foreign owned airline (such as TT) an international operating licence, would they then be able to operate under Australian bilateral agreements where there are no ownership requirements/clauses? In NZ's case, the SAM specifically excludes foreign owned airlines, but many other don't. Or would such a service require the other country to approve?
 
Joost
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RE: Foreign Ownership Laws Question

Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:21 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 38):
My understanding is that the international treaties are a framework that were agreed to to ensure some consistency when services cross multiple jurisdictions. Rather than dictating the shape of services, they dictate the rights of governments in controlling services.
Quoting qf002 (Reply 38):
In NZ's case, the SAM specifically excludes foreign owned airlines, but many other don't. Or would such a service require the other country to approve?

You say it yourself, the other country would have to approve it. AFAIK, most bilateral ASA's only allow for airlines from both signing countries.

A series of notable exceptions are formed by the many EU-treaties:
- Within the European Common Aviation Area, there is full open skies for any airline from the participating countries
- Open Skies-agreements like the EU has with Morocco, USA or Canada explicitly allow for any EU airline to operate service from any EU state to Morocco, USA or Canada
- Many 'renegotiated' agreements allow for a third-country airline to operate services within a bilateral ASA. Examples: countries who consider KLM as French, or Swiss as German, agree to allow for air services. It's up to the sovereignty of states to accept this EU free market. The Russian government, for example, has often expressed it's doubts about nationality of LX, for example; and it's usually a topic in a broader round of negotiations between the EU and Russia.

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