California Pacific Airlines Receives First Acft.

freakyrat · Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:10 pm

For all the doubters in the previous topic here is a link to an article with a picture from the San Diego North County Times.

http://www.nctimes.com/business/firs...2-6205-5b4e-8a33-8db58647ea14.html

Polot · Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:38 pm

Well, according to the article, it hasn't received its first aircraft yet, but soon it will. And while I think they will fly (how successful is another story) having an aircraft doesn't necessarily mean anything, as Baltia and Family Airlines prove.

[Edited 2012-06-18 05:41:05]

RWA380 · Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:39 pm

How can they add SJD when I'd expect there is no FIS facility at CLD? I love the idea if this, a decent sized catchment area, I really hope they carve a niche for themselves. I had heard in a previous thread California Pacific intended to eventually serve PDX & SEA, but not initially.Any info on their future plans? Thanks for sharing freakyrat.

safetyDemo · Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:47 pm

Is this a former Republic Airways bird?

C767P · Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:51 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):
How can they add SJD when I'd expect there is no FIS facility at CLD?

They do have FIS at CRQ, they have for at least the last five years.

enilria · Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:15 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):
I had heard in a previous thread California Pacific intended to eventually serve PDX & SEA, but not initially.Any info on their future plans?

I thought the runway was too short to make it that far. Isn't it like 5 or 6 thousand feet? The E170 is not a good short-field airplane.

Quoting C767P (Reply 4):
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):
How can they add SJD when I'd expect there is no FIS facility at CLD?

They do have FIS at CRQ, they have for at least the last five years.

You must mean that they have CBP officers, how could they have an FIS? They have no service. The presence of officers is not the same as the ability to process scheduled passengers.

usxguy · Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 pm

We had no problems with the USAirways Express (well, mainline) EMB 170s in and out of Key West. These planes did so much better than the CRJ 700/CRJ 200/Embraer 135/145s.

LAXintl · Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51 pm

Carlsbad offers neither full FIS for commercial traffic, nor even is a designated Port of Entry by US CBP for GA traffic.

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/...pection.ctt/airport_inspection.pdf

and California port of entry facilities
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/contacts/ports/ca/

Instead the airport is what is know as a UFCS "user fee customs service", or basically on-call during limited service hours and with prior permission - similar to Long Beach airport for example.
There is per flight charge of about $1,200 on a larger business jet and which can cover the dozen pax at the FBO.

For info this program is slated also to expire in January 2013 - as USCBP has been unable to achieve full cost recovery which was a requisite when the program was established 4 years ago.

point2point · Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
I thought the runway was too short to make it that far. Isn't it like 5 or 6 thousand feet? The E170 is not a good short-field airplane.

I would assume then that an E170 couldn't do a DEN-CLD run? I thought DEN would eventually be a good destination to/from CLD, but if this bird can't make the run...... oh well?

3holer · Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
I thought the runway was too short to make it that far. Isn't it like 5 or 6 thousand feet? The E170 is not a good short-field airplane.

I beg to differ, the E-170 is an excellent short field airplane. Both landing and takeoff. Obviously penalties can be taken for climb gradient requirements and runway conditions just like any other airplane, but as a general rule it has excellent short field capabilities.

I would doubt they would have gotten this far if the airplane did not meet their needs.

FATFlyer · Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:46 pm

Just to clarify, commercial flights can operate internationally to a user-fee airport. But like LAXIntl states there are costs that must be reimbursed to CBP by airports with that status.

For example, FAT had user-fee status when MX started flights back in 2006. To offset the CBP charged costs, FAT put in place a per deplaned passenger charge that the Mexican airlines collected. I believe it was $15 per passenger in 2006

If I remember correctly, CBP will consider changing an airports status and then CBP covering inspection costs once an airport crosses a threshold of 15,000 or so international arrivals annually. But I am not sure the current minimum passenger number.

But even under user fee status, Carlsbad would need an approved FIS large enought to process a California Pacific flight, not just a small biz jet.

Boeing727 · Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:56 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 9):

I would assume then that an E170 couldn't do a DEN-CLD run? I thought DEN would eventually be a good destination to/from CLD, but if this bird can't make the run...... oh well?

It certainly can all day long...we run the ERJ170-200 from EYW to CLT (just shy of CRQ-DEN distance) and their ERJ170-100 would have no problems to DEN, PDX and SEA out of Carlsbad, CA.

Boeing727

SANMAN66 · Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:34 pm

They have mentioned in the past that the SJD flight was supposed to only operate on the weekends.
SJD is supposed to come later after the intital cities. I figure once they decide to start up SJD, they'll
figure out the FIS situation. The first thing is to see how successful they are with the intial routes
before jumping into something international.

Web · Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:17 pm

Did anyone else notice that the name of the airline spokesman is Tom Morrow?

Is this his real name, or is this some kind of spoof?

usflyguy · Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:41 pm

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 12):

They should probably figure out the FIS issue before they decide to start up SJD.

rikkus67 · Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:35 pm

Much as there will only ever be ONE Pan Am or ONE Braniff, there will only ever be ONE CP Air....regardless of a name imitation from a different country.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gary Vincent

N202PA · Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:03 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 10):
But even under user fee status, Carlsbad would need an approved FIS large enought to process a California Pacific flight, not just a small biz jet.

Wouldn't CLD benefit as an airport if a FIS was added? Given that, might the airport cover a portion of the costs of establishing a station there?

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 15):

Much as there will only ever be ONE Pan Am or ONE Braniff, there will only ever be ONE CP Air....regardless of a name imitation from a different country.

Seems like they'll be using the branding "California Pacific Airlines" (see livery), so it's all good.

gordomatic · Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting Web (Reply 13):

Did anyone else notice that the name of the airline spokesman is Tom Morrow?

Is this his real name, or is this some kind of spoof?

Good catch. No, Thomas Morrow is for real. See 3rd bio down.
http://www.flycpair.com/team/teamBoard.htm

SANMAN66 · Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:56 am

Quoting Web (Reply 13):
Did anyone else notice that the name of the airline spokesman is Tom Morrow?

Is this his real name, or is this some kind of spoof?

Quoting gordomatic (Reply 17):
Good catch. No, Thomas Morrow is for real. See 3rd bio down.

It took me a little while, I get it!!

SANFan · Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:06 am

I'm very happy to see another positive step forward for Ed and the gang! As always, I wish the entire team the best of luck with this endeavor and I look forward to seeing their first revenue flight depart from Carlsbad in the not-too-distant future.

bb

(Hey it just occurred to me that perhaps I'll have to change my A.net screen name to CRQ/SANFan!)

point2point · Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:14 am

Quoting boeing727 (Reply 11):
It certainly can all day long...we run the ERJ170-200 from EYW to CLT (just shy of CRQ-DEN distance) and their ERJ170-100 would have no problems to DEN, PDX and SEA out of Carlsbad, CA.

Thanks for the info..... so I guess then CLD/DEN could be a future route on California Pacific Airlines?

SANMAN66 · Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:42 am

I would love to see the finished product. I know it's somewhere around the end of the month, but I wonder
what day they'll bring it in to CLD? I'd love to see it, or someone could get some pix?

FATFlyer · Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:44 am

Quoting N202PA (Reply 16):
Wouldn't CLD benefit as an airport if a FIS was added? Given that, might the airport cover a portion of the costs of establishing a station there?

The question is the cost vs benefit of a FIS. That is a question the airport and locals would need to answer.

Cost (or proposed cost) to construct a FIS for commercial flights that I have seen for smaller airports (at BFL, LAN, MLI, SCK) the past few years has been in the $4 to $7 million range. The airport would pay that not the federal government.

Then there is the FIS staffing cost. Cost at smaller airports for FIS staff for commercial flights is thousands of dollars per week. That would need to be covered as a user-fee airport either directly or via passenger/airline fees.

I'm not sure I see growth potential for international service at Carlsbad beyond the proposed weekend flights to SJD. Being sandwiched less than 1 hour from the larger SAN to the south and SNA to the north seems to limit the potential for international flights. I can see potential for regional domestic flights but I don't see much potential for international.

Maybe the airport would think the FIS cost is worthwhile. But Bakersfield spent $7 million to build a FIS for GDL flights on Mexicana that started in 2007. Flights operated for only 1 year. BFL's customs station is still there to handle GA and some cargo but the FIS complex is largely unused. CLD would need to analyze cost vs benefit and the risk of a future unused building to decide if the expenditure made sense for the airport.

F9Animal · Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:33 am

Quoting poLot (Reply 1):
And while I think they will fly (how successful is another story) having an aircraft doesn't necessarily mean anything, as Baltia and Family Airlines prove.

Never heard of Baltia. Family Airline is being run by a known con artist that went to prison for the first attempt of Family Airlines. Barry Michaels is back at it again, trying to find investors.... He last changed the name to Avatar Airlines. You can't compare Family Airlines to California Pacific! CP has gotten past a majority of hurdles, and has a heck of a team working to get this airline flying. They have what looks like a solid business plan, and good financial backing. CP has a team of strong talent, and this airline might just prove the nay sayers wrong. I have my bets that this airline will be successful. I doubt they will ever be massive in size, but I suspect they will find comfortable markets, and grow big enough to sustain healthy profits.

LAXintl · Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:03 am

As comparison, beyond the new terminal complex housing FIS, SNA must fund CBP to a tune of up to $2.8mil annually to have CBP available to screen up to 3 flights with no more than 150 passengers each between hours of 0800 and 1700. In addition SNA had to also fund $450,000 in government mandated equipment for the facility, plus even fund for CBP vehicle purchases. Additionally the airport would provide free rent, utilities etc for CBP facilities and office usage as part of the deal.

Quite a costly venture for small airports.

PHX787 · Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:51 am

Hello, the California Pacific plane- what is its registration?

murchmo · Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:26 am

So, contrary to the thread title, they did not receive their first aircraft.

RWA380 · Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:19 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
Instead the airport is what is know as a UFCS "user fee customs service", or basically on-call during limited service hours and with prior permission - similar to Long Beach airport for example.
There is per flight charge of about $1,200 on a larger business jet and which can cover the dozen pax at the FBO.

For info this program is slated also to expire in January 2013 - as USCBP has been unable to achieve full cost recovery which was a requisite when the program was established 4 years ago.

Thanks LAX, I knew someone would know how SJD could ever be considered a destination, it seems SJD is increasing in popularity as a Mexico vacation destination, it has a lower violence rate than places like ACA. It's Americanized like Cancun, and it's close proximity to California and the West coast makes it ideal for long weekends without breaking the bank. California Pacific is going to be taking people from a good demographic catchment area to regional and vacation destinations, which is why they are only planning on weekend service, when business routes will be slow. Smart ideas so far, even down to aircraft choice. Maybe they could seasonally operate a flight to YVR.

Quoting boeing727 (Reply 11):
It certainly can all day long...we run the ERJ170-200 from EYW to CLT (just shy of CRQ-DEN distance) and their ERJ170-100 would have no problems to DEN, PDX and SEA out of Carlsbad, CA

I knew I had read that California Pacific was looking to add PDX & SEA as part of their first expansion after their initial start. Thanks boeing727

Quoting N202PA (Reply 16):
Wouldn't CLD benefit as an airport if a FIS was added? Given that, might the airport cover a portion of the costs of establishing a station there?

Maybe HOU can give them some tips...

flycpair · Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:33 pm

The registration number of our first Embraer 170 is N760CP. The aircraft was previously operated by Cirrus Airlines in Germany which formerly was a Lufthansa connection carrier.

Our initial application for certification with the FAA is for domestic flying only. We will apply for Flag (International) and Supplemental (Charter) after our initial regulatory approval. We have been working to ensure adequate staffing and sufficient space to clear international arrivals so that CLD's FIS will be financially viable.

As to the performance of the Embraer 170 from Carlsbad, a good example to look at is London City Airport (LCY.) The runway is similar in length to CLD and British Airways has 13 E-Jets based there.

ScottB · Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 27):
Maybe HOU can give them some tips...

I think HOU's tip would be: "Get the airline to pay for it."

RWA380 · Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:25 am

Quoting flycpair (Reply 28):
The registration number of our first Embraer 170 is N760CP. The aircraft was previously operated by Cirrus Airlines in Germany which formerly was a Lufthansa connection carrier.

Our initial application for certification with the FAA is for domestic flying only. We will apply for Flag (International) and Supplemental (Charter) after our initial regulatory approval. We have been working to ensure adequate staffing and sufficient space to clear international arrivals so that CLD's FIS will be financially viable.

As to the performance of the Embraer 170 from Carlsbad, a good example to look at is London City Airport (LCY.) The runway is similar in length to CLD and British Airways has 13 E-Jets based there.

Hey Randy, thanks for the info, we are pulling for your fledgling carrier, best of luck, seems like a solid business plan so far. If you do make it to PDX, I'll definitely buy at least 2 seats to go visit your hometown. Exciting stuff.

san747 · Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:02 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 30):

Hey Randy, thanks for the info, we are pulling for your fledgling carrier, best of luck, seems like a solid business plan so far. If you do make it to PDX, I'll definitely buy at least 2 seats to go visit your hometown. Exciting stuff.

Agreed. And I, and hopefully plenty of other spotters, will be at CRQ for the first arrival and departure!

PHX787 · Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:33 am

Quoting flycpair (Reply 28):

Hi,
in Phoenix, which airport do you guys intend to serve? Sky Harbor (PHX) or Mesa (AZA) ??

Thanks, Z

flycpair · Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:42 pm

We plan on serving PHX (pending regulatory approval.)

flycpair · Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:46 pm

The paint job on California Pacific's first Embraer 170 is almost done. Plane spotters may want to plan on spending Saturday morning at CLD. More details soon pending some last minute regulatory and acceptance items.

California Pacific's first Embraer 170 nears completion of its paint job.

[Edited 2012-06-26 10:48:05]

SANMAN66 · Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting flycpair (Reply 34):
The paint job on California Pacific's first Embraer 170 is almost done. Plane spotters may want to plan on spending Saturday morning at CLD. More details soon pending some last minute regulatory and acceptance items.

Great paint job! I hope someone will get lots of pictures of it at CLD!

san747 · Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting flycpair (Reply 34):

Looks really nice!

point2point · Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting flycpair (Reply 28):
As to the performance of the Embraer 170 from Carlsbad, a good example to look at is London City Airport (LCY.) The runway is similar in length to CLD and British Airways has 13 E-Jets based there.

Hmmmm okay, the longest BA E170 flight from LCA is about 875 miles.

Now, from SAN (since this is pretty close to CLD), DEN is within this range at 856 miles. However, PDX is 934, SEA is 1052, DWF is 1168 and IAH is 1301 miles, all seemingly outside of the range. Airports such as ABQ and SLC would work, but the other are a bit far, yes?

PHX787 · Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:30 pm

Quoting flycpair (Reply 34):
California Pacific's first Embraer 170 nears completion of its paint job.

lookin' good!!

N202PA · Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 37):
Hmmmm okay, the longest BA E170 flight from LCA is about 875 miles.

Now, from SAN (since this is pretty close to CLD), DEN is within this range at 856 miles. However, PDX is 934, SEA is 1052, DWF is 1168 and IAH is 1301 miles, all seemingly outside of the range. Airports such as ABQ and SLC would work, but the other are a bit far, yes?

2 questions:

1.) Are any of those BA 170 flights capacity/weight restricted?

2.) Could CP do this in order to buy more range out of CLD?

SANFan · Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:02 pm

Quoting flycpair (Reply 34):
Plane spotters may want to plan on spending Saturday morning at CLD. More details soon pending some last minute regulatory and acceptance items.

Thanx for the update Randy. From what we've seen so far, looks like a pretty sharp livery you folks have come up with! Looking forward to the next news out of SoCal.

bb

PHX787 · Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:54 am

Off topic but where is a good spotting location in CLD? I may be be in SoCal this weekend for some leisure.

knope2001 · Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:56 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 37):
Now, from SAN (since this is pretty close to CLD), DEN is within this range at 856 miles. However, PDX is 934, SEA is 1052, DWF is 1168 and IAH is 1301 miles, all seemingly outside of the range. Airports such as ABQ and SLC would work, but the other are a bit far, yes?

Republic flew E170 for Midwest Airlines daily for months on MCI-LAX at 1363 miles and MCI-BOS at 1256 miles. They also few some trips for MCI-SFO and MCI-SEA which are 1499 and 1489 miles. Those appear to be subsitutions, however.

Not aware of any serious weight penalties on MCI-LAX or MCI-BOS, and it doesn't seem too likely they'd purposely put the E170 on those routes month after month if there were. So that suggests a good 1300 or so miles is reliably within the E170 range.

[Edited 2012-06-26 18:57:39]

point2point · Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:05 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 42):
and it doesn't seem too likely they'd purposely put the E170 on those routes month after month if there were. So that suggests a good 1300 or so miles is reliably within the E170 range.

I think that the issue though is the shorter runway at CLD.

knope2001 · Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:13 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 43):
I think that the issue though is the shorter runway at CLD.

Ahh...I see your point. Sorry!

EMBQA · Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:47 am

Wait till ya see the whole plane....very sharp looking

sunking737 · Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:02 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 45):
Wait till ya see the whole plane....very sharp looking

We need PHOTOS !!! LOL

united319 · Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:22 pm

So glad to hear this is happening. I grew up flying in and out of CLD back in the day when the Terminal was a trailer (literally). The new Terminal is absolutely beautiful. I hope they succeed in flying out of there. I always thought the airlines could possibly make some $$ with flying some other route than CLD-LAX. Too bad also no more DH8 service to PHX (since 2005;ish).

On a side note, will UA keep serving CLD once OO dumps all of their E120's? With the recent runway extension, can a CR2 or CR7 make it in and out of there for a short LAX hop?

N202PA · Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:25 pm

Quoting united319 (Reply 47):
On a side note, will UA keep serving CLD once OO dumps all of their E120's? With the recent runway extension, can a CR2 or CR7 make it in and out of there for a short LAX hop?

CR2, I would guess yes - they've flown into EYW on short hops, which has a similar runway length to CLD. CR7 probably not, unless it was capacity/weight restricted - in which case, why aren't you flying a CR2 in the first place?

flycpair · Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:48 pm

Our paint job is getting close to completion.

The paint job nearly finished on our first Embraer 170.

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