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ebj1248650
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:30 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 61):
It's *supposed* to help QR and Boeing look good. Done right, it will make them look good and result in zero additional sales. Done wrong, it could tarnish the 787 for decades to come.

Care to explain how it could result in zero additional sales? Makes no sense whatsoever! Boeing and other manufacturers demonstrate their wares to produce additional sales. That's business!
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
ebj1248650
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:35 am

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 62):
Ah, but there would be additional sales . . . in boarding tickets just not airplanes And in that part of the region, prestige can be paramount.

Nicely said. Thank you!
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:23 am

Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 100):
Care to explain how it could result in zero additional sales? Makes no sense whatsoever! Boeing and other manufacturers demonstrate their wares to produce additional sales. That's business!

Because airlines don't buy airliners based on any factors that you can demonstrate during an airshow display (not that this is generally not true of military aircraft, where demos make far more sense).

I will thunk down any amount of money that absolutely nobody in a position to buy a 787 will ever change their mind based on seeing it fly at Farnborough.

Tom.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:17 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 102):

I 100% agree...but it did look purty, dangit...
What the...?
 
flipdewaf
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:42 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 102):
Because airlines don't buy airliners based on any factors that you can demonstrate during an airshow display (not that this is generally not true of military aircraft, where demos make far more sense).

I will thunk down any amount of money that absolutely nobody in a position to buy a 787 will ever change their mind based on seeing it fly at Farnborough.

Tom.

Then one would have to ask why Boeing would be a the airshow at all? All the relevant numbers for the economics could be sent over internet wires surely?

Fred
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tdscanuck
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:21 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 104):
Then one would have to ask why Boeing would be a the airshow at all?

Because airlines absolutely do care about the passenger experience, which means they care about the cabin, and they care about gate operations, which means they care about ground access. Static displays for airliners make enormous sense. They also prove the physical tangibility of the aircraft ("It's not a paper airplane anymore.").

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 104):
All the relevant numbers for the economics could be sent over internet wires surely?

It's really hard to build a decent cabin mockup, let alone send one over the internet wires.

Tom.
 
MD-90
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:59 pm

So who paid for the Jet-A for the demonstration, Boeing or Qatar?
 
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frigatebird
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:03 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 102):
I will thunk down any amount of money that absolutely nobody in a position to buy a 787 will ever change their mind based on seeing it fly at Farnborough.

Tom.

Not even a sheik that doesn't know what to do with all the money he inherited?  

Although the maneuvers seen during the display would wreak havoc on his precious collection of china I suppose...   
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bikerthai
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:28 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 107):

Not even a sheik that doesn't know what to do with all the money he inherited?

And this is exactly my point. Which airline is Qatar in competition with? To have his airplane on display in front of the Aviation world is like having his finest thoroughbred win the winner circle. The PR guys at EK were probably drooling with envy.

So yes, Boeing had a recent history of not participating in Commercial Aircraft flying demonstration at air shows. After reading the Seattle Times article interview with the 787 pilot who flew the demo, I can see why. However, Boeing have a longer history of trying to please the customer. And who here would say that Qatar was not pleased. And even if the next fleet plane purchase would be on the merit of the aircrafts, I would not be surprised if the next time the Shiek wants to buy a plane for his personal use he would give extra points to a Boeing product.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
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135mech
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:01 pm

Quoting Konradh767 (Reply 99):
The proof that Boeing and FAA did away with Customer codes can be found in the Type Certification Data Sheets (TCDS).
These are the documents which accompany the Type Certifcate for any FAA certified aircraft.

777:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...6db0/$FILE/T00001SE%20Rev%2030.pdf

Note how the model is listed with customer codes and associated eligible serial numbers for each certified airplane: 777-200 on page 2-3, 777-300 on page 5, 777-300ER page 8, 777-200LR page 11, 777F page 14

The same is true for all other Boeing models. You should see the 737's TCDS.

787:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...81daf/$FILE/T00021SE%20Rev%202.pdf

Note that despite having certified the ANA, JAL, and Air India dreamliners, only 787-8 is listed on the data sheet with no customer code, and all the elegible serial numbers are listed under 787-8 regardless of operator.

Hope this finally clears it all up.

-konrad

Thank you for the fact sheets and information! Love learning more about them!

Have a great day!
135Mech
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 106):
So who paid for the Jet-A for the demonstration, Boeing or Qatar?

If the OEM is the one bringing the airplane to the show, it would normally be the OEM paying for the fuel.

This a Boeing owned aircraft being operated by Boeing under Boeing's name at the airshow...the chances that Qatar is picking up the bill are pretty slim.

Tom.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 110):
the chances that Qatar is picking up the bill are pretty slim.

Is it really? Boeing probably provides the fuel for the flight over. But once there all the airplanes fuel up from the same source right? Can some one there comment on how easy it would be if the gas bill for a specific airplane be billed to someone else's credit card? And the flight back?

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
BMI727
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 102):
I will thunk down any amount of money that absolutely nobody in a position to buy a 787 will ever change their mind based on seeing it fly at Farnborough.

That's true. But Boeing shows TV commercials too, and we both know that those don't sell planes either. That's for the public, many of whom invest money in various businesses.

The flying display won't sell planes, but it might get airtime on CNBC. It might get bigger pictures and articles in business sections around the world. At the end of the day, if you ignore the input of Qatar Airways, it's not about selling the plane. It's about putting Boeing's image, accomplishments, and products in front of as many people as possible.
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scbriml
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:18 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 108):
The PR guys at EK were probably drooling with envy.

Nah, they've already had the biggest flying advertisement seven years ago at the Dubai Air Show:

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flipdewaf
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:22 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 112):
That's true. But Boeing shows TV commercials too, and we both know that those don't sell planes either. That's for the public, many of whom invest money in various businesses.

I think this is likely the case, I have seen adverts for the Boeing, embraer etc many times in flight international and I don't think anyone reading them is simply going to buy an aeroplane based on that advert. This flying display was like an advert in flight international.

Fred
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bikerthai
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:21 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 113):
biggest flying advertisement seven years ago at the Dubai Air Show:

  But that was "and eternity" ago . . .

And I bet Qatar was drooling back then too.  

Just imagine, when that 787 made the bank to show the belly to the camera, QATAR just had a 10 second commercial in the middle of prime time news.

Too bad BA won't get their 787 or A380 in time for the Olympics. Otherwise, they may do a fly by there and get free advertizement as well.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
Tradewinds
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:49 pm

I my mind that demonstration removes any doubt that the 787 is the most beautiful aircraft out there. The lines, curvature of the wings, everything -- just beautiful and graceful as it cuts through the air. Lovely.
Tradewinds
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:36 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 114):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 112):That's true. But Boeing shows TV commercials too, and we both know that those don't sell planes either. That's for the public, many of whom invest money in various businesses.I think this is likely the case, I have seen adverts for the Boeing, embraer etc many times in flight international and I don't think anyone reading them is simply going to buy an aeroplane based on that advert. This flying display was like an advert in flight international.Fred

I agree with Tom that no airline is going to buy an aircraft based on an aircraft flying at an airshow. It is more about airline pride, manufacture share price and relations, airline profile, and general public demand. Buzz in other words. Same with TV ads.
 
planemannyc
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Re: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:34 pm

Saw this article.

Looks like the Vietnam Airlines demo for Paris but now with ANA.

Crazy banking!

http://techaeris.com/2016/07/08/watch-b ... n-stomach/
 
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Stitch
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Re: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:15 pm

planemannyc wrote:
Crazy banking!


Airbus and Boeing both have very impressive air show acrobatics demonstrations with their products (as do the pilots of the airlines who operate their equipment at local air shows and major events like F1 Grands Prix).
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: RE: 787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough

Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:57 pm

tdscanuck wrote:
I will thunk down any amount of money that absolutely nobody in a position to buy a 787 will ever change their mind based on seeing it fly at Farnborough.


But they might change their mind when *their* customers admire the capabilities of the 787 that they saw flying at Farnborough...

(Just a tiny, tiny bit, I'm sure, but it's all part of projecting that image of being a world-class airline flying world-class aircraft.)
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