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YYCSpotter
Topic Author
Posts: 206
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Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:46 am

Seeing that CYYC will be opening a new runway/ international terminal in the next few years, what new airlines/aircraft do you think will be drawn to yyc?


I have my bets on AF, EK, and NH.

[Edited 2012-07-05 17:46:46]
 
Hawaiian763
Posts: 119
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Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:03 am

Quoting YYCspotter (Thread starter):
I have my bets on AF, EK, and NH

AF is unlikely since KL is already in YYC, NH is also unlikely since AC already flies direct to Japan. I think EK wants to fly here, but from what I remember reading a while ago it had something to do with the government restricting how many flights EK can fly to Canada. I place better bets on maybe KE or CA coming to YYC
 
Thenoflyzone
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Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:52 am

Quoting YYCspotter (Thread starter):
Seeing that CYYC will be opening a new runway/ international terminal in the next few years, what new airlines/aircraft do you think will be drawn to yyc?

It's not like airlines are waiting for the new runway/terminal to open before serving YYC.
If KE or CA wanted to fly to Calgary, they would have already. Dont expect to see any new airlines in YYC anytime soon.

LH came and went, BA started YYC with a 4 class B772, and now sends a 3 class B763 year round....... all of this proving that YYC has a hard time handling more than one international carrier flying the same long haul route. Meaning you can forget about NH or JL to Tokyo, which in all honesty, is the only Asian potential YYC might have had.

Maybe KE in a distant future, but not anytime soon. At least not in my eyes, anyways.

Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 1):
I think EK wants to fly here,
EK might have said they wanted to fly to YYC, but we all know that if they get additional frequencies, all they will do is up YYZ to daily, even double daily, before serving YYC, YVR or YUL.

Bottome line, YYC needs the new runway to support the aircraft movements it currently handles. Just because the airport authority chose to make it a 14,000 ft monster with CAT III capabilties, doesn't mean B744's or B777's are going to flock to YYC anytime soon.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2012-07-05 19:51:03]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
saloman
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Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:02 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 2):

Well put. The next priority needs to be making YYC-NRT daily. Outside of this I have a hard time seeing any other Asian routes opening up. The business connections don't overcome the reality that YVR is just a short hop to the west with plenty of Asian connectivity with multiple alliances. With LH's exit and AC's upguaging of FRA the European routes look to rationalized as well.
 
fly2yyz
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Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:15 am

KE if I'm not mistaken has already had seasonal charters usually for July and August. I'm sure that it'll eventually go sched 3 times a week.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:25 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 2):
LH came and went,

LH came and went twice.
 
Hawaiian763
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:46 am

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 4):
KE if I'm not mistaken has already had seasonal charters usually for July and August. I'm sure that it'll eventually go sched 3 times a week.

Do you know what type of aircraft KE used on those charters?
 
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RWA380
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:52 am

Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 6):
Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 4):KE if I'm not mistaken has already had seasonal charters usually for July and August. I'm sure that it'll eventually go sched 3 times a week.
Do you know what type of aircraft KE used on those charters?

I'd love to see KE do something creative to boost frequency and more service cities, like a ICN-YYC-MIA or an ICN-ANC-YYC routing, or anything like that. I'm guessing an A330 would be good for this YYC service, tag or not?
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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EddieDude
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:13 pm

I wish the requirement for visas for Mexican citizens would be repealed by Canada. Then, there might be a chance AM or someone else could launch MEX-YYC. MX flew this route for a few years 4x weekly or so. It'd be nice to have the route reinstated.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
fly2yyz
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:47 pm

From July 25-August 25, 2010 - 744 was used Tuesday, Thursday and Sundays, so was a very short season of flying seasonal charters.

KE also operated this seasonal charter in summer of 2008.

I think KE though has dropped this non-stop flight in favor of codesharing with WS which came into effect May 31.
 
YYCSpotter
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:51 pm

Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 6):
Do you know what type of aircraft KE used on those charters?

They used 777-200ER.

Quoting saloman (Reply 3):
AC's upguaging of FRA the European routes look to rationalized as well.

If anything, they upraged LHR to a 77W, the FRA flight didn't change a bit, just the same A333 year round (wuth the occasional 763 every now and then)

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8):
AM or someone else could launch

they used to fly to YYC, but have since left those flights to mexicana, who went bankrupt. besides, the Calgary-Mexico market is dominated by WS, Sunwing, AC, and Transat... very little room for any (possible) expansion... Mexico City, maybe...
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 4):
KE if I'm not mistaken has already had seasonal charters usually for July and August
Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 9):
KE also operated this seasonal charter in summer of 2008.

Just because airlines operate charter flights between two cities (in this case, 12 flights or less during a year between YYC and ICN, and not even every year at that), doesn't mean there is demand to launch scheduled flights between said cities.

NH and JL fly charter flights non-stop to YUL and sometimes YYZ several times during the fall season. Doesn't necessarily mean they want to start scheduled flights to those cities.

A chartered flight is just that. Chartered. If demand was there, those flights would be scheduled by now.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2012-07-06 09:43:38]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
fly2yyz
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
Just because airlines operate charter flights between two cities (in this case, 12 flights or less during a year between YYC and ICN, and not even every year at that), doesn't mean there is demand to launch scheduled flights between said cities.

I didn't suggest that there is a demand. I was just stating that the flights were operated and were bookable on the Canadian side.
 
saloman
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting YYCspotter (Reply 10):
If anything, they upraged LHR to a 77W, the FRA flight didn't change a bit, just the same A333 year round (wuth the occasional 763 every now and then)

Right - the FRA route was up gauged from 763 to 333 for the winter. Not an insignificant change. Of course it doesn't replace many of the seats left by LH, but that is precisely my point. The route has been rationalized between the two carriers to a sustainable level, and thus I don't see any addition European service in the near term.

However, I can see LH returning to YYC in the future once the European economy picks up and they have an available aircraft to operate the route economically.

[Edited 2012-07-06 11:23:04]
 
EddieDude
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:51 pm

Quoting YYCspotter (Reply 10):
they used to fly to YYC, but have since left those flights to mexicana, who went bankrupt. besides, the Calgary-Mexico market is dominated by WS, Sunwing, AC, and Transat... very little room for any (possible) expansion... Mexico City, maybe...

Hmmm. I don't think AM has had regularly scheduled service to YYC from any Mexican airport. They may have run charter flights at some point. Having said that, yes, MX did operate YYC on a regularly scheduled basis. This flight was launched a few years ago, together with MEX-YEG, and it was dropped when MX started imploding I think. In my opinion, the reason why nobody has picked up MEX-YYC after MX's demise is because the market did not fully recover from the global financial crisis until now, and the visa requirement by Canada resulted in less Mexican visitors going to Canada.

I am sure Canadian carriers serve very well the Calgary-Mexican resorts market, but I am strictly speaking of YYC-MEX, which would not necessarily be leisure-oriented, but rather have a high component of business traffic (and the leisure passengers would also include Mexicans going to Canada).
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
ACT7
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:43 am

I've weighed in on this topic several times on various forms, so why not have another go at it. YYC is largely a domestic airport with very limited international connectivity (only 11% of its traffic). Air Canada can claim all it wants that it's a hub airport, but we all know that by any true international measure, it isn't. The massive international facilities expansion is so over the top, it's not even funny, nor will it spark any airlines to start service just like that. I don't think there is a line-up of carriers pounding down the door waiting to serve YYC. It will be at least 10 years before EK ever expands into Western Canada let alone Calgary. Westjet will continue to expand regionally within YYC's cachment area but that's about all I would expect over the next 5 years or so. As much as all of us would love to think that YYC is on airlines' radars, it really isn't, and I certainly wouldn't expect any Asian, Middle Eastern, or other European carrier to expand to YYC anytime soon. Sounds harsh, maybe, but it's reality as I see it.
 
Hawaiian763
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 2:21 pm

RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:21 pm

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 15):
Westjet will continue to expand regionally within YYC's cachment area but that's about all I would expect over the next 5 years or so. As much as all of us would love to think that YYC is on airlines' radars, it really isn't, and I certainly wouldn't expect any Asian, Middle Eastern, or other European carrier to expand to YYC anytime soon. Sounds harsh, maybe, but it's reality as I see it.

You are pretty much bang on right about that, as much as we YYC spotters would love to see new metal it's just very unlikely that'll happen in the short term, especially with how the economy is in some places. The only new metal we'll likely see is when WS starts regional service with their Q400's in 2013.

Might there be a possibility that AC would keep the 77W on the YYC-LHR route over the winter instead of the usual 333?
 
brilondon
Posts: 3164
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:38 pm

Quoting YYCspotter (Thread starter):
I have my bets on AF, EK, and NH.

I don't think that AF would be interested even though the Calgary is such a centre of French culture and history.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8):

I wish the requirement for visas for Mexican citizens would be repealed by Canada. Then, there might be a chance AM or someone else could launch MEX-YYC. MX flew this route for a few years 4x weekly or so. It'd be nice to have the route reinstated.

I believe that the US has something to do with this and may not be in our control in Canada.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
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c172akula
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:12 pm

Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 16):
Might there be a possibility that AC would keep the 77W on the YYC-LHR route over the winter instead of the usual 333?

That would be nice. It is slightly encouraging to see the small steps like KL upguaging to the 333 for the summer, and AC continuing to take steps to make the NRT flight a daily at some point (year round now is a great first step).

It is too bad that both KE and JL haven't run any of the summer charters lately, as it did throw in some variety from the usual for us spotters here.

I think if we were to get another Asian carrier in the short term it would be nothing short of a miracle, and one would have to wonder what kind of incentives YYC and area would be giving them to make it happen. For now I would believe YYC would rather work with AC to keep the NRT flight viable and let it thrive.

I'm still hoping for an A388 diversion one of these days!
 
Hawaiian763
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 2:21 pm

RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:29 pm

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 18):
I'm still hoping for an A388 diversion one of these days!

If I ever hear of an A388 diverting to YYC, I will be gunning for the airport in a hurry, no matter where in the city I am.  
 
EddieDude
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:19 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 17):
I believe that the US has something to do with this and may not be in our control in Canada.

Not really. As I understand, Canada imposed a Canadian visa requirement to Mexicans and Czechs(?) a few years ago because many people were abusing Canada's refugee protection and statutes, and were entering the country with refuge claims.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/comme...evenues-take-a-hit/article1364615/
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
ACT7
Posts: 96
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:53 pm

Sadly, YYC's international pax traffic has only increased by 18K to the end of May. Like I said - major overkill on the International Facilities project.
 
saloman
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:31 pm

RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 17):
I believe that the US has something to do with this and may not be in our control in Canada.

Completely in our control. A significant enough amount of travellers from Mexico were claiming refugee status upon arrival, of which only 11% were accepted. Hence the imposition of visa requirements. The only way this will be lifted is when our refugee system is reformed so that we can quickly deal with refugees - accept those approved by the Immigration Refugee Board, and deport those who weren't. It simply takes to long right now and imposes heavy costs.

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 18):
It is slightly encouraging to see the small steps like KL upguaging to the 333 for the summer

KL has been flying a 332 to YYC for a while now.... not aware of any summer upguage?

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 21):
Sadly, YYC's international pax traffic has only increased by 18K to the end of May. Like I said - major overkill on the International Facilities project.

If it means easing the pressure on the current transborder area I'm all for it! That being said, all signs point to overkill. The only way that terminal comes close to justifying its size is if WS does the expected and within the next ten years goes long haul. It's reasonable to assume that YYC and YYZ would see the bulk of those flights.
 
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c172akula
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:49 pm

Quoting saloman (Reply 22):
KL has been flying a 332 to YYC for a while now.... not aware of any summer upguage?

Hmm, I swear I read that they were going to use the 333 for the summer. Now I am searching and can't find the report anywhere. Odd.
 
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c172akula
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RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:53 pm

Ok, I was not going crazy. According to Airline Route they had KL using the 333 from July 7-Sep 16 (on days 6 & 7).

http://airlineroute.net/2012/05/04/kl-s12update7/

[Edited 2012-07-12 10:54:27]
 
saloman
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:31 pm

RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:13 pm

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 24):

Ok, I was not going crazy. According to Airline Route they had KL using the 333 from July 7-Sep 16 (on days 6 & 7).

http://airlineroute.net/2012/05/04/k...ate7/

Ah, wrong I am! I took a quick glance at flightaware and because the upguage has yet to come into affect yet (starts this Sat/Sun I believe) I just assumed. I know some had expressed concern as to the viability of this flight in the past so it's good to see a positive, no matter how minor it may be.
 
Ferminios
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:01 pm

RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting saloman (Reply 25):

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 24):

Ok, I was not going crazy. According to Airline Route they had KL using the 333 from July 7-Sep 16 (on days 6 & 7).

http://airlineroute.net/2012/05/04/k...ate7/

Ah, wrong I am! I took a quick glance at flightaware and because the upguage has yet to come into affect yet (starts this Sat/Sun I believe) I just assumed. I know some had expressed concern as to the viability of this flight in the past so it's good to see a positive, no matter how minor it may be.

It's indeed developing very positively. KLM is actually coming in daily this summer (5 A332 + 2 A333), which is an increase from the 5/weekly MD-11 last summer. KLM is planning 5/weekly A332 service for this winter, which is 1/week extra compared to last winter.  
 
jetskipper
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2001 1:50 am

RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:17 pm

Not as exciting, but United is flying Mainline ORD-YYC in July.
 
Hawaiian763
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 2:21 pm

RE: Calgary International - New Airlines/Aircraft?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:42 pm

Quoting Jetskipper (Reply 27):
Not as exciting, but United is flying Mainline ORD-YYC in July.

Only 1 flight operates mainline and it's usually the mid-evening flight with usually an A319 or A320 although last Saturday they did send a 752 for some reason.

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