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columba
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Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:32 pm

What orders can we expect at Farnborough ? More orders for the A380 and the 747-8I, launch of the 787-10 ? What are your thoughts ? Usually I had a few ideas but this year I have no clues at all.....
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
sirtoby
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:45 pm

Lot's of MAX oders for sure:
-GECAS
-ALC
-United
-ILFC
-...

One or two NEO orders...

Maybe on or two for CSeries..

Some for the rest...
 
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N14AZ
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:30 pm

Quoting columba (Thread starter):
What orders can we expect at Farnborough ? More orders for the A380

I think - and Airbus said that some weeks ago - it will be very hard to sell any A 380s this year. It still remains to be seen if and how Airbus will apply the final fix for wing cracks for about 120 A 380s starting from beginning of 2013. Will it have an influence on the planned deliveries (like this year), e.g. because of shifting resouces? The operators interested in procuring A 380s are most probably in a holding pattern.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:37 pm

For Boeing, in addition to probably hundreds of 737 MAX orders, hopefully some of the 747-8 Intercontinental MoUs will be firmed. We should see some 777 orders (BA just converted their final two 77W options to orders) and be nice to see some new ones for the 787.
 
EIDAA
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:37 pm

It looks like RE will announce an order for 6 or perhaps 8 ATRs at the show.

A small order I know, but looking forward to seeing the -600s flying around here in a few years.
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sirtoby
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 2):
I think - and Airbus said that some weeks ago - it will be very hard to sell any A 380s this year.

Leahy said he wants to sell 30 A380 this year...with 4 already sold to Transaero.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:57 pm

Lot of nuts bolts rivets dials and things that go waca waca.

Its a business to business trade show for the component supplier companies and military.
Give up already with the head line commercial orders . Any announcements will have been booked months ago .

Farnborough throughout its history has been about the component suppliers and military projects Civil projects have always taken a back seat.

Its especially true now that the UK has no civil projects to speak of at all.
I would be amazed if Boeing were to launch a new project at Farnborough - Its just NOT what this trade fair is about.

Paris is a much more Civil oriented trade fair in every way and as for hand builds and kits you need to look at the LAA trade shows at Sywell in the UK.

Farnborough is no longer much of interest to the general aviation enthusiast . Better bet going to the IAT events at Fairford .
 
umit
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:28 pm

TK suppose to make a sizable order of 380 or 748 along with some 330s
 
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ER757
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:53 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 2):
it will be very hard to sell any A 380s this year

If TK decides on the A380 for their VLA, then I think we can expect it to be announced at the show. While I have no inside info, I just have a hunch they'll go 748 though. Even if that's the case, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see at least one A380 order at the show, even if it's a conversion of options by an existing customer.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 6):
I would be amazed if Boeing were to launch a new project at Farnborough

Completely agree. There was a thread a while back with quotes from Boeing saying they were not close to launching the 787-10 or the 777X.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
hopefully some of the 747-8 Intercontinental MoUs will be firmed.

I think that's likely. Hopefully Transaero and at least one of the two China orders (CA or Hong Kong Airlines).
 
cat3dual
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:16 pm

Given the recent pilot contract approval at Delta, I wouldn't be surprised to see additional orders for the CRJ-900 and/or EMB-175. The new contract calls for 223 aircraft of this size (up from the current number of 153).
 
747400sp
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:38 pm

UA has recently said that they need a larger plane to replace their 747 400s, so we could see them order 747-8I, 777-X or A350 1000s.

I would love to see a order from DL for BBD Cseries, but that just a personal want.
 
FlyHossD
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 1):

Lot's of MAX oders for sure:
-GECAS
-ALC
-United
-ILFC

I hope you're right about United ordering some 737Max aircraft. It was speculated that UA would make such an order months ago - so I've been wondering if their labor problems have prevented the order from being completed.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 11):
It was speculated that UA would make such an order months ago - so I've been wondering if their labor problems have prevented the order from being completed.

Bucking their normal trend, I could see Boeing working with MAX customers to hold back the large orders for Farnborough so they can make a major splash while the general media is present. The MAX is ~1000 frames behind the neo in terms of firm orders and the model has secured no customers in South America or the Middle East as of yet. It is also trailing significantly in Asia and Australia and even in North America and the EU it's 60-40 or better in favor of the neo. So if they could announce hundreds and hundreds of orders over the show, that would make a positive statement on the family.

[Edited 2012-07-06 11:00:40]
 
KDAYflyer
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:58 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Bucking their normal trend, I could see Boeing working with MAX customers to hold back the large orders for Farnborough so they can make a major splash while the general media is present. The MAX is ~1000 frames behind the neo in terms of firm orders and the model has secured no customers in South America or the Middle East as of yet. It is also trailing significantly in Asia and Australia and even in North America and the EU it's 60-40 or better in favor of the neo. So if they could announce hundreds and hundreds of orders over the show, that would make a positive statement on the family.

I think this will be the bulk of the orders we will see at the show. If we can get 1 747-8I MOU firmed up that would be just grand!!
 
fcogafa
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:12 pm

In that case it seems strange that the Virgin order was announced this week......
 
srbmod
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:27 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 10):
I would love to see a order from DL for BBD Cseries, but that just a personal want.

Delta has no need for the CSeries now that they will be acquiring the AirTran 717 fleet from Southwest, with the first a/c slated to enter service next year.

Quoting cat3dual (Reply 9):
Given the recent pilot contract approval at Delta, I wouldn't be surprised to see additional orders for the CRJ-900 and/or EMB-175. The new contract calls for 223 aircraft of this size (up from the current number of 153).

I agree. Such orders would likely be in quantities large enough to reach the a/c max of the new contract as well as to replace older CRJ-700s.

This really could be the make or break show for Bombardier in regards to the CSeries. For 2012, they've gotten 1 order for the CSeries (5 CS100 a/c plus 5 options). Prior to that, the last firm order was from Korean Air for 10 CS300s plus 10 options plus 10 purchase rights. The orders from Atlasjet and Ilyushin Finance from last year have yet to be made firm orders. If those orders are not firmed up at Farnborough and Bombardier doesn't get much interest from potential customers, they may have to decide to continue with the program or to shelve it before flight testing begins.
 
Wingtips56
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 14):

Perhaps Virgin Australia wanted to jump the line, rather than have their deliveries bumped behind someone else's major order if they waited?
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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AADC10
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:50 pm

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 11):
I hope you're right about United ordering some 737Max aircraft.

I am not so excited about it. I think the A320 is more comfortable. From a passenger standpoint, the 737MAX will be just like any other 737 with a sky interior.

However, the order is almost inevitable, with Boeing willing to do almost anything to avoid another split order like AA's.
 
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Polot
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:52 pm

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 16):
Perhaps Virgin Australia wanted to jump the line, rather than have their deliveries bumped behind someone else's major order if they waited?

Delivery times are settled long before an airline announces it's order, they could have secured slots but waited until the air show to announce if they wanted too.

It is possible though that there will be several major MAX announcements, and VA was afraid that their relatively small order for 25 would get largely ignored in the media as everyone focuses on bigger and larger customers.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:45 pm

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 16):

Perhaps Virgin Australia wanted to jump the line, rather than have their deliveries bumped behind someone else's major order if they waited?

The actual order being signed and the announcement happen at different times. With Boeing, the airline announces the order when they want. Boeing will gladly leave them as unidentified customers.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
PHX787
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:47 pm

I see the 7810 launch and probably some 748i orders but everything else is a toss up imo
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747400sp
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:16 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 15):
Delta has no need for the CSeries now that they will be acquiring the AirTran 717 fleet from Southwest, with the first a/c slated to enter service next year.




Crap! That Southwest/AirTrans merger just keeps stepping on my toes. I wanted to see a CSeries in DL livery so bad, but thanks to that stupid merger that not going happen. First, no more non stop service from PHF to JFK now this. Did anything good come of that merger?    
 
planemaker
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:45 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 15):
If those orders are not firmed up at Farnborough and Bombardier doesn't get much interest from potential customers, they may have to decide to continue with the program or to shelve it before flight testing begins.

This won't help airline confidence...

Bombardier Temporarily Reassigns Key CSeries Fuselage Work
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
phxa340
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:34 pm

Looks like ALC is set to announce a big MAX order ....

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/0.../airshow-alc-idINL6E8I6BWJ20120706
 
southwest737500
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:38 pm

What about some CRJ 1000 orders
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1337Delta764
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:03 am

I'd expect there is a possibility that DL and/or UA may place a 737 MAX order. Boeing cannot afford to let two of their most loyal customers flee to Airbus, as what happened with AA.
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Stitch
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 25):
I'd expect there is a possibility that DL and/or UA may place a 737 MAX order. Boeing cannot afford to let two of their most loyal customers flee to Airbus, as what happened with AA.

UA appears to be a given to order the MAX per reports.

DL recently placed a huge 737-900ER order, so they may hold off for the time being. That being said, having chosen the 737-900ER over the A321-200 could be a sign that they to will lean towards the MAX.
 
ba286
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:53 am

Wasn't UL rumored to expand their fleet sometime soon?
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SEPilot
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:09 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 26):
DL recently placed a huge 737-900ER order, so they may hold off for the time being. That being said, having chosen the 737-900ER over the A321-200 could be a sign that they to will lean towards the MAX.

Seeing as how the A321 seems to have the biggest edge over its 737 counterpart (probably due to its being significantly larger) I would agree with this. For the most part, even loyal Boeing customers seem to choose the A321 over the 739ER; having DL go the other way certainly is to me an indication that they strongly favor Boeing.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
kaneporta1
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:08 am

Quoting planemaker (Reply 22):
This won't help airline confidence...

Bombardier Temporarily Reassigns Key CSeries Fuselage Work

This is old news, circa 2010. Why would this have any effect on arline confidence?
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
 
FlyHossD
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:06 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 26):
UA appears to be a given to order the MAX per reports.

DL recently placed a huge 737-900ER order, so they may hold off for the time being. That being said, having chosen the 737-900ER over the A321-200 could be a sign that they to will lean towards the MAX.


I see a real dichotomy between DL and UA. DL has secured labor peace with a just passed ALPA contract with and UA has walked away from the negotiating table after lowering - across the board - their prior offers to UA ALPA.

Both UA and CO pilots are in the midst of a strike vote. Will the banks get behind UA without labor peace?

Despite the uncertainty, I'm still hoping that UA places a 737Max order soon.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
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lollomz
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:41 am

Maybe there will be a new order also for the Superjet, we'll see if it will be true or not. Fingers crossed.
[url="http://www.diecastmodelaircraft.com/collection/Lollomz"]Image[/url]
 
india1
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:43 am

AF/KLM firming their A350s?
 
Max Q
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:10 am

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 31):

I see a real dichotomy between DL and UA. DL has secured labor peace with a just passed ALPA contract with and UA has walked away from the negotiating table after lowering - across the board - their prior offers to UA ALPA.

Your analysis is correct.


With Smisek at the helm don't expect any labor peace at all.



He is the worst Airline CEO since Lorenzo.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
gothamspotter
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:12 am

Quoting lollomz (Reply 32):
Maybe there will be a new order also for the Superjet, we'll see if it will be true or not. Fingers crossed.

Not even considering the crash in Indonesia, Superjet needs to prove that it can actually deliver aircraft before they get any more orders.
 
leftwing
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:56 am

PAL will confirm with Airbus ? They wanted to order 100+
 
HullCitySpotter
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:12 am

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 24):

There is a CRJ900 being parked there that hasn't been announced on the Farnborough website; so I reckon there could be a few CRJ Orders! (P.S. hopefully it'll stay for the public days as I've never been close to a CRJ NextGen before!)
 
f4f3a
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:23 am

How about a large order from Ryanair for the comac 919  
 
india1
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:31 am

9W for A320s that's been spoken about here some time ago?
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:47 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 28):
For the most part, even loyal Boeing customers seem to choose the A321 over the 739ER; having DL go the other way certainly is to me an indication that they strongly favor Boeing.

The 739 is fine for intra-US 757 rep[lacementneeds, which is what DL bought them for.

Quoting india1 (Reply 33):
AF/KLM firming their A350s?

...and selecting RR for its 787s?
 
flood
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:26 pm

Leeham is pointing to a possible Aeromexico MAX order and according to Aspireaviation, CX may be switching some A359s to -1000s and topping up their order - possibly in time for the show. Maybe Pegasus' NB order? It was also reported back in May that AirAsia was negotiating for another 50 A320s.
 
Scanorama
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:52 pm

Quoting poLOT (Reply 18):
It is possible though that there will be several major MAX announcements, and VA was afraid that their relatively small order for 25 would get largely ignored in the media as everyone focuses on bigger and larger customers.

Or maybe they will announce another order at Farnborough, more A332s or even 77Ws for their medium-long haul expansion?
 
srbmod
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:28 pm

Quoting kaneporta1 (Reply 30):
This is old news, circa 2010. Why would this have any effect on arline confidence?

The linked article is from July 6, 2012, which does not make it "old news".

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 28):
Seeing as how the A321 seems to have the biggest edge over its 737 counterpart (probably due to its being significantly larger) I would agree with this. For the most part, even loyal Boeing customers seem to choose the A321 over the 739ER; having DL go the other way certainly is to me an indication that they strongly favor Boeing.

Even though the A319/320 outnumbers the 737-700/800 fleet, the 737-900ER are to replace the oldest a/c of the 757 fleet (which is the largest narrowbody fleet type at Delta) as well as the oldest A320s in the fleet. In due time, DL will be rationalizing the fleet even further, so the 737 MAX is the likely front runner to eventually replace the rest of the narrowbody fleet currently in service with DL (A319, A320, 757-200, 737-800, MD-88, MD-90). Then again, AA (as well as some other airlines) split their narrowbody replacement between both Airbus and Boeing offerings.

I don't see a 737 MAX or A319/320/321neo order coming from Delta at Farnborough. While it's no secret that there is a potential 100 narrowbody a/c order coming from them at some point (When they announced the 739ER order last year, it was originally thought that Delta would order 200 a/c, but said that they would cap it 100 for the time being.). Delta could surprise everyone with an additional 739ER order with the option to convert those orders to the 737 MAX. I definitely don't expect any sort of widebody a/c order from them.

[Edited 2012-07-07 06:43:07]
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:56 pm

Will Norwegian DY put in an order for more B787's or are they gonna continue to try and pick up frames from other sources that has already ordered in order to jump the queue ? They have 8 Dreamliners in line, but says they want more ...
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 42):
Even though the A319/320 outnumbers the 737-700/800 fleet, the 737-900ER are to replace the oldest a/c of the 757 fleet (which is the largest narrowbody fleet type at Delta) as well as the oldest A320s in the fleet. In due time, DL will be rationalizing the fleet even further, so the 737 MAX is the likely front runner to eventually replace the rest of the narrowbody fleet currently in service with DL (A319, A320, 757-200, 737-800, MD-88, MD-90). Then again, AA (as well as some other airlines) split their narrowbody replacement between both Airbus and Boeing offerings.

I suspect that AA split the order in a large part because they wanted delivery faster than either could provide them; that plus Boeing initially still trying to sell the NSA instead of the MAX. I do not think airlines want mixed fleets; almost all of them choose either the A320 or the 737; most mixed fleets result from a change in preference (old UA) or mergers, which is the case with both DL and UA now. I do expect both of them to choose one, and DL choosing the 739ER over the A321 says to me that this one is Boeing's to lose, and the rumor is that UA has tossed the Airbus salesman out on his ear.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
mauriceb
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:34 pm

Wouldn't be suprised to see AF-KL order some additional 737's for Transavia.com (both, but mainly france) and i think KL won't wait for to long to make a decision on the F70 replacement, since they wan't to withdraw them within 4 years. But what they could be ordering as an replacement? I really haven't got a clue, but think the EMB-175 is the main candidate.

Also i would really like to see UA make a final decision on its narrow body fleet replacement. I expect a combined Airbus/Boeing order, since they have a good relationship with both manufactors, and already operate both the NG and A320 at the moment at different hubs. It gives them a greater opportunity to be flexible with the delivery span + i think the A321neo is the best 757-transcon replacement aircraft available.
 
planemaker
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:52 pm

Quoting kaneporta1 (Reply 29):
This is old news, circa 2010. Why would this have any effect on arline confidence?

Because it is only now being reported on.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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lollomz
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:33 pm

Quoting gothamspotter (Reply 34):
Not even considering the crash in Indonesia, Superjet needs to prove that it can actually deliver aircraft before they get any more orders.

Well, an Aeroflot SSJ-100 will be at the show, maybe someone will be surprised. Why not? The crash in Indonesia has not been because of a bad airplane....
[url="http://www.diecastmodelaircraft.com/collection/Lollomz"]Image[/url]
 
PHX787
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting lollomz (Reply 47):
Well, an Aeroflot SSJ-100 will be at the show, maybe someone will be surprised. Why not? The crash in Indonesia has not been because of a bad airplane....

It's not like there's anything that could cause a repeat of Indonesia in Farnborough
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HullCitySpotter
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RE: Farnborough Expected Orders

Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting lollomz (Reply 47):
Well, an Aeroflot SSJ-100 will be at the show

Where does it say this?

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