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catiii
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AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:45 am

For the past few months I've noticed a full complement of AerLingus crews deadheading on the DL Shuttle in uniform out of LGA. Usually it is 6 or 7 f/as and 2 pilots, which leads me to believe they aren't just commuting. Does Aer Lingus build a rotation that has an NYC layover with a deadhead to BOS to work a flight home to Ireland?
 
redhair
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:12 am

I assume they will be flying IAD-MAD as this UA flight is operated by them.
 
gothamspotter
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:15 am

Quoting redhair (Reply 1):
I assume they will be flying IAD-MAD as this UA flight is operated by them.

Yes, but the crew mentioned is going to BOS.
 
ei912
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:32 am

I would guess it could be the SNN based crews, which might do SNN-JFK and then BOS-SNN as they run 4W and 3W respectively. I imagine it would be cheaper to deadhead than pay for a full 24hrs extra layover expenses.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:37 am

Why aren't they flying JFK-BOS instead of LGA?
 
richcandy
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:59 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 4):
Why aren't they flying JFK-BOS instead of LGA?

Where do EI stay in New York when on a stop over? If its not near JFK then maybe LGA is closer. (Just a guess)

Alex
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:34 am

Quoting EI912 (Reply 3):
I would guess it could be the SNN based crews, which might do SNN-JFK and then BOS-SNN as they run 4W and 3W respectively. I imagine it would be cheaper to deadhead than pay for a full 24hrs extra layover expenses.

   Correct. EI bases one A330 at SNN which operates SNN-BOS 4x weekly and SNN-JFK 3x weekly (reverse in the winter months Oct/Nov/Dec). The crews only spend one night in the US in either New York or Boston so deadhead to where they are flying the return journey home. I was under the impression they deadheaded on JetBlue's JFK-BOS route however...
 
ein105
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:35 pm

Jetblues JFK-BOS would make more sense, but the SNN-JFK fligh arrives at 15.00, and the Jetble flight leave at 16.30, which is to tight to connect to. The next flight isn't until after 8, so I'm guessing LGA offers a quicker connection
 
flyby519
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 4):
Why aren't they flying JFK-BOS instead of LGA?

Im guessing they fly SNN-JFK, then go to a hotel in Manhattan for 24hrs, deadhead LGA-BOS and fly out of BOS that evening. Probably easier with the number of shuttle flights from LGA as well as it's proximity to Manhattan.

Ive heard of EI crews deadheading NYC-BOS before, but it was several years ago.

[Edited 2012-07-07 09:46:37]
 
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shamrock604
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:58 pm

It happens quite often with IAD too. As EI have one A330 based there operating to MAD, they need to swap out aircraft for maintenance to get them back to Ireland. This normally happens by swapping out aircraft between Washington and Boston, hence crews also occasionally deadhead on BOS-IAD/DCA-BOS services.
 
harpandshamrock
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:47 am

Of course, some would question why EI still maintain a crew base at SNN for 1 320 and for half a year 1 330 with the awkward timetable mentioned above, but I suppose if EI did the sensible thing and moved the crew to DUB the newspapers in the wesht would say EI is abandoning SNN once more and the crew would go on strike........
2011 so far: LX (4), FR (2), EI (2), BE (2) - 4004 miles
 
deltal1011man
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:35 pm

Quoting ein105 (Reply 7):
Jetblues JFK-BOS would make more sense

Why?


If any flight from JFK made sense it would be DL882 which leaves at 1845.

But the reasons for the Shuttle is likely that they have hourly flights if something were to happen(and an hour could make the difference from the crew timing out) and Delta likely gave them a fairly good deal due to lower load factors on the Shuttle. I know if going to LGA got me to Boston(and thus a bed) quicker than hanging out at JFK, I'd take the car ride. (10x if it was on the companies dime)

Or it may mean waking up a few hours later to fly up to BOS before a flight. (and once again, the shuttle has more flights thus if something happens it is a lot easier to get to BOS than from JFK. Plus if need be they could hop on a bus and go to the US air shuttle in a worst case)
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:38 pm

Quoting HarpandShamrock (Reply 10):
Of course, some would question why EI still maintain a crew base at SNN for 1 320 and for half a year 1 330

The maintenance base is A330-only and operates year-round with EI positioning aircraft directly from Dublin to Shannon sometimes and obviously during the Q1 downtime. At any rate, it has nothing to do with SNN crew rotation between JFK and BOS.

I am interested in how this setup works for the pilots - they are all DUB-based so I assume they avail of ground transport to get from Dublin to Shannon, operate SNN-BOS/JFK, commute with their SNN-based cabin crew colleagues to JFK/BOS for the return flight, land in SNN the next morning and then travel by road/rail back to Dublin? Seems like a long few days!
 
a340crew
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:46 pm

Trip 1 is:
Dub-JFK (shuttle to lga) lga-bos (overnight) bod-SNN

Trip 2 is opposite.

8 cabin crew do this trip. Pilots don't do it pilots get a 2 day layover in BOS or JfK this is due to different union contracts

is it stupid to use DL out of LGA with so many JFK-BOD flts? Yes
But DL offered EI positioning crew positive rate ID50s so EI does this
Crazy trip to save a few pennies
 
matt
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:27 pm

Out of curiosity, what other foreign airlines deadhead crews from one city to the other within The US and Canada? Any concrete examples?
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fly2yyz
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:10 am

Don't know about foreign airlines within Canada/US, but TS and WG both deadhead crews within Europe on a regular basis using several airlines from many different points all over Europe.
 
matt
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 15):
Don't know about foreign airlines within Canada/US, but TS and WG both deadhead crews within Europe on a regular basis using several airlines from many different points all over Europe.

Yes, you're right. I worked as an FA for Nationair (way back when) and then TS and remember deadheading quite a lot within Europe on different airlines. It made sense as some flights were only operated once a week and it was costly for the airline to have the crew stay at destination for a full seven days. But seven day layovers, although seldom, probably still do exist!  
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AAMDanny
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:25 pm

It's very common to save money, as already mentioned. Within the industry these routes are created by the airlines Rostering & Crewing departments and this is commonly referred to as 'Trip Pairing' as 'trips' (duties) are paired up with other flying duties.

When I was crew at TCX I used to operate LGW-YYZ, then dead head straight after with AC to YHZ, night stop then operate YHZ-LGW...

This is just one example of dozens of trip 'pairings' that airlines do, another example was BHX-GLA with BE, nightstop, then GLA-YYZ, night stop, YYZ-BHX. It basically stops a GLA and a BHX crew being downroute for 3-4 nights when the frequency on particular routes is not often enough.

The big advantage of Pairing is it get's the crews home quicker, so they can be utilised more for other duties, which in overall means an airline needs to hire less crew when crew are utilised 'downroute' a lot more effectively. Imagine the extra £££ it would cost an airline if they was to fly a route x1 weekly and have the crew stay there for 7 nights, not just in crew hotac and allowances but thats an entire crew away from base unable to perform other flying duties back at base, which means more crew would need to be recruited.

Another way to do thing's on more 'medium' haul routes is to deadhead a crew out, then downroute, have a crew swap with the deadheading crew, so the crew who deadheaded out operate the flight home, and the crew who worked the way out stand down. BA have been doing this in part's of Nigeria (Abuja if I am not mistaken) where it's not safe for the crew to be night stopped. There are restrictions however which is why when this happens you commonly see the crew in J/F cabins where they have the ability to sleep to extend there flying duty periods. If there is no need to extend the crew duties then they can be sat in other cabins such as W/Y.

Hope this response enlightens you all a bit into the crazy, weird and wonderful world of crew duty's... of course, each country has different rules, and each airline has their own policies, so it's different everywhere.

Dan
 
fly2yyz
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:40 pm

Quoting matt (Reply 16):
I worked as an FA for Nationair (way back when) and then TS and remember deadheading quite a lot within Europe on different airlines.

At TS now, no 7 days really exist anymore. Its been brought down to 4 to 5, its fairly decent. Lot more 20+ hours nowadays! But you're right it is to save money! A lot of money goes into the hotels, but also per diem etc...
 
matt
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RE: AerLingus Crews Deadheading On DL Shuttle

Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:55 pm

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 18):
Hope this response enlightens you all a bit into the crazy, weird and wonderful world of crew duty's... of course, each country has different rules, and each airline has their own policies, so it's different everywhere.

Great explanation of crew scheduling and the pairing concept!

I also know that, on flights to Europe, Air Canada (AC) also has deadheading crews in the months were flights are not daily. They also have the types of pairings you describe, i.e. where one crew operates a flight and deadheads back on the return, while the other crew deadheads down and operates the return (YYC-ZIH, e.g.).
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