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gesubsea
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Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:22 am

Interesting article out of NZ in which New Zealanders seem to be charged alot more than the British for the same routing from AKL-LAX-LHR but in reverse. I have seen this in some cases concerning US-EU returns depending on what country you book, but the difference in fares between the Kiwis and the Brits seems to be astronomical.

"The price disparity can vary wildly, but a standard round-trip between Auckland and Heathrow via Los Angeles will set a New Zealand-based passenger back $500 more for an economy seat, $1500 more for a SkyCouch upgrade, $2100 more for a premium economy seat and $3000 in business class."

I am wondering if this same practice could also be the case if and when ANZ decides to start service at DEN or IAH or BOTH?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10818060
 
Viscount724
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:29 am

Fares are virtually always different in both directions since the markets are totally different and competition may be much greater at one end of the route than the other. Currencies are also fluctuating daily but fares in local currencies don't change that often. You also usually have more pricing power in your own home country and can thus charge higher fares from your country than to your country.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:37 am

Quoting GEsubsea (Thread starter):
I am wondering if this same practice could also be the case if and when ANZ decides to start service at DEN or IAH or BOTH?

Yes. In AKL, NZ has the point of sale, loyalty, and marketing advantage, and can find lots more people to fill it's planes to LHR than in the UK, where NZ is a nobody.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
gesubsea
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:07 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):

So, is it fair to assume then that if NZ did decide on starting a AKL-IAH service that we could likely see cheaper fares on the US side that rival what the UK is being allowed to book? Could we see fares in the $900-$1000 price point for the sake of filling the returns on a 773 knowing full well that a 787 replacement would follow and push the fares upwards to more profitable margins?
 
weebie
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:53 am

YOur average person is Auckland is earning a much higher income than your average person in London.
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:05 am

Quoting weebie (Reply 4):
YOur average person is Auckland is earning a much higher income than your average person in London.

Are you sure about that?
Another reason being that Kiwis are more attached and loyal to NZ than foreigners, due to FF programs etc. Hence NZ can charge higher fares for Kiwis.
 
weebie
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:09 am

No they charge a higher fare for Kiwis because Kiwis have more buying power and are willing to pay more. Australia and New Zealand are the new Scandinavian countries. I went to Auckland recently, couldn't believe how expensive the city was.
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:26 am

Quoting weebie (Reply 6):
No they charge a higher fare for Kiwis because Kiwis have more buying power and are willing to pay more.


No matter that the GDP per capita is higher in UK than in NZ?
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:37 am

Quoting weebie (Reply 4):
YOur average person is Auckland is earning a much higher income than your average person in London.

Not on this planet. Which Auckland are you talking about, and which London ?
 
weebie
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:55 am

Auckland was miles more expensive than London. London is actually a very affordable city. Lets ( i just came back last week again) not forget that over 50% of the London population earn 5.35ph.

I reguarly speak to Brits who complain about expensive flights they pay which in reality would be half of what I would paying doing the same flight from Australia. Just last week at the pub had an English guy whinging about paying 800pound return to Cape Town. That same flight would easily cost me 2000-2500 from Perth.
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:09 am

Quoting weebie (Reply 9):
not forget that over 50% of the London population earn 5.35ph.

Wow, great point. And do you expect that these people want to fly to New Zealand?

I bet that 85% of them don't know what "a New Zealand" is.  

These different prices simply have to do with supply and demand and from London the supply (also to other destinations, which are competitors to destinations like New Zealand) is by far bigger than from Auckland. They simply have much more to choose from.

And be sure that Brits earn more money than Kiwis!  Smile

[Edited 2012-07-10 00:18:02]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:15 am

Quoting weebie (Reply 9):
Just last week at the pub had an English guy whinging

Was he the one telling you about people in Auckland earning more than people in London?  

Have a look here please. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_GDP
It looks like Londons GDP is almost twice as much as Aucklands per capita, 75 v/s 39 kUsd.
Should be a good indicator of peoples income as well.

[Edited 2012-07-10 00:18:55]
 
weebie
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:09 am

Things have changed a lot since 2008 mate. New Zealanders living in Auckland and Wellington earn salaries that Londoners could only dream of unless you are an investment banker.
 
Gingersnap
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:16 am

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 10):
I bet that 85% of them don't know what "a New Zealand" is.

Slightly insulting but I agree with your overall sentiments.
Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W B788 C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
 
weebie
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:18 am

I would rather be paying rent in London or SIngapore than Auckland. Auckland is one of the most expensive cities I've ever been too and the middle class has plenty of money to burn. Can't say the same thing about Londoners who think 30-40k is a good salary.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:21 pm

Quoting weebie (Reply 14):
I would rather be paying rent in London or SIngapore than Auckland. Auckland is one of the most expensive cities I've ever been too and the middle class has plenty of money to burn.

The data would say otherwise.

http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Yes. In AKL, NZ has the point of sale, loyalty, and marketing advantage, and can find lots more people to fill it's planes to LHR than in the UK, where NZ is a nobody.

Exactly.
 
weebie
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:56 pm

On that note London is stated as more expensive but still Auckland is right up there.

ANZ have the advantage of heading to Europe via LA. I have never done that flight but I'd imagine that going to Europe from Auckland would be a nightmare at best.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:20 pm

Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 3):
So, is it fair to assume then that if NZ did decide on starting a AKL-IAH service that we could likely see cheaper fares on the US side that rival what the UK is being allowed to book?

Yes

Quoting weebie (Reply 4):
YOur average person is Auckland is earning a much higher income than your average person in London.

Has nothing to do with that, if that's even true
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:30 pm

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 10):
I bet that 85% of them don't know what "a New Zealand" is.

At least as many wouldn't have a clue what Qantas is either.

Quoting weebie (Reply 16):
I'd imagine that going to Europe from Auckland would be a nightmare at best.

Why it's no worse than flying from Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane.

This is a daft topic as well, I bet you'll find Australians pay more for Qantas, Germans more for Lufthansa, Poms more for BA....it must have been a slow news day.
 
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yowza
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting weebie (Reply 4):

YOur average person is Auckland is earning a much higher income than your average person in London.

Really? Auckland seems quite... dingy. There are not a lot of outward signs of wealth. Very few nice cars, super flash restaurants etc. There's waaaay more of that in London and even here in Toronto.

Quoting weebie (Reply 6):
I went to Auckland recently, couldn't believe how expensive the city was.

I was there during the Rugby World Cup and it seemed pretty normal to me. Was there something in particular that was alarmingly expensive?

Quoting weebie (Reply 16):
ANZ have the advantage of heading to Europe via LA. I have never done that flight but I'd imagine that going to Europe from Auckland would be a nightmare at best.

AKL-LAX-LHR on NZ1 is a far more palatable option than going the other way with EK or a mishmash of Star carriers through the US. The Koru lounge in LAX is also great if you're Star Gold, or flying in the front.

YOWza
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:42 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 19):
Really? Auckland seems quite... dingy. There are not a lot of outward signs of wealth. Very few nice cars, super flash restaurants etc. There's waaaay more of that in London and even here in Toronto.

Sure you were in Auckland? Per capita NZ is one of the biggest markets for luxury cars.
 
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yowza
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 20):
Sure you were in Auckland? Per capita NZ is one of the biggest markets for luxury cars.

100% sure.   I loved it, I just didn't think it was that flash. I could count on my fingers the number of mid-range German luxury cars I saw (A6, 5 series etc) and saw zero ultra high end cars Ferraris, Lambos and the like. I was around the viaduct area and the casino most of the time. Are those not the kinds of neighbourhoods where you would expect to see such cars?

YOWza
 
weebie
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:00 pm

You do realise that Germany luxury cars are about 2 to 3 times more expensive in Australia and New Zealand than they are in Canada, America or Europe?
 
santos
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:18 pm

Quoting weebie (Reply 22):
You do realise that Germany luxury cars are about 2 to 3 times more expensive in Australia and New Zealand than they are in Canada, America or Europe?

I don't think Cars are an example on how expensive a city is.

Quoting weebie (Reply 9):
not forget that over 50% of the London population earn 5.35ph.


Minimum wage in the UK is £6.08 ph- $11.82 New Zealand dollars
And comparing a city with a population of just under 8 million to a city of just 1.3 million, it's also not a great example.
There's wealth in every part of the world, some countries are more conservative about it, others like to show it off.
 
gesubsea
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting santos (Reply 23):
Quoting weebie (Reply 22):
You do realise that Germany luxury cars are about 2 to 3 times more expensive in Australia and New Zealand than they are in Canada, America or Europe?

I don't think Cars are an example on how expensive a city is.

I have to agree...I live in Houston....Oil & Gas money flows among the elite here. In fact, a recent Capgemini study found that Houston’s millionaire population surged by 9.6% to a total of 96,700 wealthy citizens from 2009 to 2010 (metro pop. is 5.5 million). The year before that, Houston saw its millionaire ranks surge by 29%. Yet, you see very few Lambo's, Ferrari's, of Bentley's on the street here. Its mostly high end BMW's, M-B (mainly E class and SUV's), a fair amount of Porsche 911's, Cayenne's and Panamera's, with the occasional Aston Martin here and there. Point is I think people who have money do not like to show it. If they do it will be in the form of the homes and high rise apt. they have purchased, the clothes they wear or the class of service they fly internationally...LOL .
 
ElPistolero
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:45 pm

Brave. For a state-owned airline.
 
gesubsea
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 18):
This is a daft topic as well, I bet you'll find Australians pay more for Qantas, Germans more for Lufthansa, Poms more for BA....it must have been a slow news day.

Point noted and it seems to be that they DO, and the disparity is rather large between SYD-LAX. However, when you compare IAH with LHR & FRA the comparison alot less with Germany and half as much with LHR. Maybe one other point to consider is the taxes associated with each countries fare structure as well.

Performed a fare check provided below on the following city pairs mentioned by kiwirob (fares based on Economy class):

(Outbound: 8/1 - Return: 8/22)

Lufthansa
IAH-FRA Lufthansa.com - $1,200
FRA-IAH Lufthansa.de - € 1,369 / $1,113

Difference of $87 in favor of Germany departure.


British Airways
IAH-LHR BA.com - $996
LHR-IAH BA.com - £847 ($1,330)

Difference of $334 in favor of US departure.

Qantas
LAX-SYD Qantas.com - $1918 (USD)
SYD-LAX Qantas.com - $2621 (AUD) / $2679 (USD)

Note: compared only Red E-Deals fares for consistency.
Difference of $761 in favor of US departure.
 
greenwichsud
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:22 pm

To be honest, per capita GDP (and the napoleonic chest beating on this board) is somewhat useless in this context. What matters is that there are enough people originating from a particular market in the right income buckets to fill the big seats profitably. P/C GDP will not give you a picture of that - think banana republics such as Angola, Nigeria, Brazil, etc.

[Edited 2012-07-10 09:25:23]
 
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yowza
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:12 pm

Quoting santos (Reply 23):
There's wealth in every part of the world, some countries are more conservative about it, others like to show it off.

This is also true, and the Kiwis seem to be a pretty mellow un-obnoxious bunch so that could be it.

Quoting santos (Reply 23):
I don't think Cars are an example on how expensive a city is.

That may be true. But really nothing while I was in AKL struck me as being super expensive. Cabs, hotel rooms, dinner out, booze.

Quoting weebie (Reply 22):
You do realise that Germany luxury cars are about 2 to 3 times more expensive in Australia and New Zealand than they are in Canada, America or Europe?

Really? I imagined they would be a fraction higher but three times is crazy. Actually, come to think of it I did see a sign in NZ advertising a KIA Optima for almost 50K NZD. That figure would NEVER fly for a KIA over here.

Following up on what others have said about there being an imbalance in pricing I did a little digging and found that this is quite prevalent. Air Canada YYZ-SCL-YYZ on Aug 5/Aug 12 is about 10% more expensive than SCL-YYZ-SCL on the same dates. I wonder how much of this and indeed the cases cited with NZ have to do with varying seasons in the two hemispheres.

YOWza
 
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drerx7
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 24):
Yet, you see very few Lambo's, Ferrari's, of Bentley's on the street here.
Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 24):
with the occasional Aston Martin here and there

Not to undermine your point - but I see all of those ALOT here in Houston.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
aznmadsci
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 26):
FRA-IAH Lufthansa.de - € 1,369 / $1,113

Difference of $87 in favor of Germany departure.

From xe.com, the converted price should be about $1678, in favor of the US departure.

Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 24):
I live in Houston....

Do you live in the Loop? If you do then you'd see these all over without blinking!
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:32 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 21):
Are those not the kinds of neighbourhoods where you would expect to see such cars?

No, I'd see them all over the show in Takapuna, Milford, Devonport, Remuera, St Heliers, Mission Bay, Coatsville. In the right of way my parents live in in Milford there's several BMW's, Mercedes, a Ferrari, two Porsches, a Maserati. When I was a kid one of my relatives employer owned a McLaren F1.

Quoting weebie (Reply 22):
You do realise that Germany luxury cars are about 2 to 3 times more expensive in Australia and New Zealand than they are in Canada, America or Europe?

Which is not true at all, luxury cars in New Zealand are significantly cheaper than in Australia where they are hit with a luxury car tax. Luxury cars in NZ are also cheaper than in Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Russia.
 
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drerx7
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:35 pm

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 30):
Do you live in the Loop? If you do then you'd see these all over without blinking!

Yea, my friends that come down here are always like "What recession?" I stay inside the loop and there are 3 SLs on my block (lol I'm one of em) a Maserati, more Escalades and Range Rovers than I can count etc. The thing that bolsters Houston and the cars is the fact that our cost of living is so low as well - so Houstonians with a little money in their pocket can indulge a little bit more in the accessories of life and still have a nice home etc.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
loveofflying
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:00 pm

I see this ALL the time for Canada-Europe in J - way more expensive then the other way around. So because of my frequent travel pattern, I often book Canada-Europe Y and nest a Europe-Canada in J or similar idea.  
Fly the DC10 before you can't!
 
gesubsea
Topic Author
Posts: 191
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 24):
I live in Houston....

Do you live in the Loop? If you do then you'd see these all over without blinking!

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 29):
Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 24):
Yet, you see very few Lambo's, Ferrari's, of Bentley's on the street here.
Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 24):
with the occasional Aston Martin here and there

Not to undermine your point - but I see all of those ALOT here in Houston.

I live in the gentrified section of SE Houston (Hobby Airport Area)....help me out here ... Yes, in certain sections you will likely see some more than others...will give you that! To be honest my wife has a Cayenne Turbo we have to hideaway in the garage in our neighborhood...to stay low key from the locals .
 
gesubsea
Topic Author
Posts: 191
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:05 pm

Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 26):
Lufthansa
IAH-FRA Lufthansa.com - $1,200
FRA-IAH Lufthansa.de - € 1,369 / $1,113

Difference of $87 in favor of Germany departure.
Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 30):
Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 26):
FRA-IAH Lufthansa.de - € 1,369 / $1,113

Difference of $87 in favor of Germany departure.

From xe.com, the converted price should be about $1678, in favor of the US departure.

Christ, good catch...sorry for misrepresenting for the US side on this one the difference is $478....long morning.....
In all cases as presented then the US departures indeed seem to be on the cheap compared to an overseas departure into the US on those comparisons.
 
gesubsea
Topic Author
Posts: 191
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 32):
Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 30):
Do you live in the Loop? If you do then you'd see these all over without blinking!

Yea, my friends that come down here are always like "What recession?" I stay inside the loop and there are 3 SLs on my block (lol I'm one of em) a Maserati, more Escalades and Range Rovers than I can count etc. The thing that bolsters Houston and the cars is the fact that our cost of living is so low as well - so Houstonians with a little money in their pocket can indulge a little bit more in the accessories of life and still have a nice home etc.

More so then that....the car market can be rather flooded with people who buy high end makes then trade them within 2-3 yrs for a new one. All the while, the middle class snatch these gently used examples up for a song in most cases. I think depreciation in this city on european cars are like 50%-60% of MSRP after 3-5 yrs.
 
talktocharlie
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RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:24 am

Air NZ isn't that good anyway
The sky's the limit!
 
tayser
Posts: 436
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:49 pm

RE: Kiwis Pay Top Dollar On Air NZ

Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:28 am

Quoting weebie (Reply 12):
Things have changed a lot since 2008 mate. New Zealanders living in Auckland and Wellington earn salaries that Londoners could only dream of unless you are an investment banker.

Then why do some many kiwis come across to Australia for work?

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