Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4422
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:59 am

If those times are right - then the 767 is coming from elsewhere in the UA transatlantic - CDG network. Which flights arrive from the other hubs to make it work?
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2234
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 47):
CALM, these times don't make sense -- either the aircraft sits on the ground at CDG for almost 24 hours or is it a W-routing?

The aircraft arrives CDG at 10:45AM, and departs the following day at 10:00AM -- or should one of those AMs be a PM?

Once we see the spring schedule, we'll see that 763 from CDG likely originated at IAD or EWR or ORD.
 
bayareapilot
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:53 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:07 am

This is CO dba UA we're talking about. They have a proven track record of marketing transatlantic flights on undersized equipment as non-stop when they know the westbound flights will have to stop. Why would SFO-CDG be any different?
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:27 am

It's neither undersized nor would ever, ever have to stop.

The original United flew less capable 763s on the same route. So whatever.

NS
 
codc10
Posts: 2935
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:30 am

Quoting bayareapilot (Reply 52):
This is CO dba UA we're talking about.

As opposed to UAUA, which lacked suitable equipment for all but the most premium of markets, devoting a lot of real estate to FC cabins on flights with little paid F demand. Accordingly, routes like SFO-CDG simply were not viable.
 
User avatar
legacyins
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:04 am

Quoting etoile (Reply 43):
Note that since UA suspended SFO-TPE, the cross-strait market has arisen. So expect a good amount of traffic on the renewed service to be connecting on to the mainland, where aside from Shanghai and Beijing, there are 11 other municipalities with populations greater than 10 million.

They already Have Air China (CA) to cover the mainland market from their hub in Beijing. A far larger operation than BR has from TPE.
 
hohd
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:43 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 18):

If bulk of the traffic is tranfer for SFO-CDG flight, it makes more sense to route that traffic via ORD (or even a reinstated IAH). From SFO, they will only have a limited West Coast traffic transfering at SFO due to the geography. So they are counting on more O & D from SFO area. But AF is entrenched there and generally is more popular (with free alcohol in economy) plus can count on transit pax at CDG, I wonder how many pax UA will attract. I dont see this succeeding this time either.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14179
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 49):
it clearly gives a hint towards....................

IAH-CDG's return?..
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
IAHWorldflyer
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:22 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:55 pm

Quoting hohd (Reply 56):
From SFO, they will only have a limited West Coast traffic transfering at SFO due to the geography.

It might be possible that they would get some connecting traffic from their Hawaiian islands operation, though I can't believe there would be much more than about 10 PDEW from HNL and OGG flying onward to CDG. I agree that most traffic would be better served over ORD, with the exception of the extreme SW corner of the US ( SAN, LAS and PHX). But I don't run an airline, so we'll leave that for the folks in the Willis Tower to figure out.
 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4422
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:57 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 57):
IAH-CDG's return?..

Or DEN-CDG...which would be even more of a yields dump. Where else would they route a 763 into CDG from? IAH and LAX are the only places in the network.

Quoting hohd (Reply 56):
I dont see this succeeding this time either.

Me either.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:00 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 59):

I think a 763 on CDG-EWR is very reasonable with AF gone -- and they can play it safe. IAD will be back with a 763 by the fall.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14179
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:05 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 60):
I think a 763 on CDG-EWR is very reasonable with AF gone -- and they can play it safe. IAD will be back with a 763 by the fall.

EWR-CDG is getting a 764 in the fall, EWR-CDG 1 757, 1 764.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 61):

Ah, my bad forgot about that.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
codc10
Posts: 2935
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:31 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 61):
EWR-CDG is getting a 764 in the fall, EWR-CDG 1 757, 1 764.

IAD-CDG gets a 67E this fall. It's not reflected in the schedules at the moment but I am fairly sure that's the current plan.

As it stands now, UA914 arrives at 0655 and returns to IAD at 1145 as UA915. UA942 ORD-CDG, if it gets a 67E, arrives at 0940 and turns back to ORD as UA943 at 1240. Both of those seemingly could would with SFO-CDG as a W route.
 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4422
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:32 pm

The SFO-CDG could be the IAD bird.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
point2point
Posts: 2093
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 59):
Or DEN-CDG...which would be even more of a yields dump.

Okay..... ummmm..... DEN may not have the best yields domestically (and considering they're really not that bad), but they have some of the highest yields on the BA flight to LHR and the LH flight to FRA. Since DEN has so few international flights..... those yields are up there......

Just sayin'


 
 
panamair
Posts: 4362
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:27 pm

Looks like UA will be suspending NRT-TPE starting October 27...flight has been zeroed out in various GDS. So basically there will be no UA metal in TPE between October 28 2012 and April 2013....
 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4422
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:30 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 65):
Okay..... ummmm..... DEN may not have the best yields domestically (and considering they're really not that bad), but they have some of the highest yields on the BA flight to LHR and the LH flight to FRA. Since DEN has so few international flights..... those yields are up there......

LOL,

DEN-CDG is another market though...CDG is a hard location without hub feed to make work from secondary airports.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 25015
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:49 pm

There are some scheduling updates that are in process, so the whole picture not clear. For instance UA will ops a 2nd NRT-SFO during the winter which previously was seasonal.

Regarding Taipei there is the ANA JV flight flight that is being retimed a bit, and upgauged to a 777 to provide the market presence for United.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
etoile
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:22 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:02 am

Quoting legacyins (Reply 55):
They already Have Air China (CA) to cover the mainland market from their hub in Beijing. A far larger operation than BR has from TPE.

I believe there aren't additional flight rights available from US to BJS now, nor can UA upgauge now.
 
United1
Posts: 4210
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:09 am

Quoting etoile (Reply 69):
I believe there aren't additional flight rights available from US to BJS now, nor can UA upgauge now.

There are quite a few route authorities available between the US and China right now...and as far as I know there are no restrictions on UA upgauging any of its current flights.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
etoile
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:22 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:16 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 70):
Quoting etoile (Reply 69):
I believe there aren't additional flight rights available from US to BJS now, nor can UA upgauge now.

There are quite a few route authorities available between the US and China right now...and as far as I know there are no restrictions on UA upgauging any of its current flights.

Which authorities are for sale or otherwise available?

My mistake about the gauge - I had thought all the sUA flights to BJS were 744, but only SFO is and the rest are 777. And I forgot about the sCO flight, which is also 777.
 
User avatar
christao17
Posts: 931
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:14 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:49 am

Quite curious about the timing of the SFO-TPE flight and how that would connect with BR flights. Normally, UA runs its Asia flights from SFO departing late morning or early afternoon, arriving in Asia late afternoon, early evening the next day. Using the HKG flight as an example, depart at 13:00 and arrive at 18:00+1.

The thing is, that doesn't provide very useful BR connections in TPE. Checking a random Tuesday next month, the only connections are to HKG (19:00 and 21:50), SYD (22:30), BKK (22:45), and PVG (23:30). All connections to mainland China cities are earlier in the day.

The same holds true for inbound TPE connections for an approximately 12:00 departure back to SFO. There are very few flights that would connect to a UA flight back to SFO. The connections work better for BR's late evening flight.

Do you think that UA will time their TPE flight differently from most of their other Asian flights, in order to provide better connections in TPE? Or will BR make some schedule adjustments to provide better connectivity? Or will the UA flight rely mostly on connections in SFO?
More than a dozen years flying in and around Asia...
 
User avatar
legacyins
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:17 pm

Quoting christao17 (Reply 72):
Quite curious about the timing of the SFO-TPE flight and how that would connect with BR flights.

I guess another question is, what does BR offer to UA that they do not already have.

TPE- Vietnam/Indonesia/Philippines/Bali/Thailand. All low yield routes, IMO. Everything else is connected by their *A partners CA/TG/NH/SQ
 
United1
Posts: 4210
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:18 pm

Quoting etoile (Reply 71):
Which authorities are for sale or otherwise available?

My mistake about the gauge - I had thought all the sUA flights to BJS were 744, but only SFO is and the rest are 777. And I forgot about the sCO flight, which is also 777.

There is no need to buy any route authorities if an airline wants to serve China. After the initial hoopla a few years ago demand dropped off and there are lots of dormant route authorities that no airline has applied for. While I am sure that SFO-TPE will get some level of connection traffic from China if UA wanted to increase frequencies on SFO-PEK/PVG they could easily do so.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
panamair
Posts: 4362
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:40 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 68):
Regarding Taipei there is the ANA JV flight flight that is being retimed a bit, and upgauged to a 777 to provide the market presence for United.

I wonder what will happen to the UA ground employees at TPE between October and April when UA will have no flight operating into TPE then. AFAIK, UA still has its own employees in TPE doing check-in, etc.

Quoting christao17 (Reply 72):
Do you think that UA will time their TPE flight differently from most of their other Asian flights, in order to provide better connections in TPE? Or will BR make some schedule adjustments to provide better connectivity? Or will the UA flight rely mostly on connections in SFO?

I am willing to bet that UA will maintain its usual SFO-Asia schedules for TPE, i.e., noon-ish departure from SFO and an evening arrival in TPE. IMHO, connections on BR are not going to play a big part...the main leverage UA is getting out of BR's Star membership will be having greater access to the local Taiwan-originating traffic, which, if they are members of FF programs, would either be aligned with BR or CI; just like when CI first joined Skyteam, Delta upgauged their TPE flight from a 752 to a 744 / 777 (depending on season), while maintaining their original schedule with little onward connectivity to CI flights....

[Edited 2012-07-12 06:58:15]
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 25015
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:04 pm

UA only has a token number of customer service staff in TPE, mostly in supervisory/management roles. Bulk of the work is performed by the local handling agent.


Btw - proposed schedule pending slots:

UA871 SFO-TPE 1330-1755 777
UA872 TPE-SFO 1155-0825 777
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
christao17
Posts: 931
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:14 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:56 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 76):
UA871 SFO-TPE 1330-1755 777
UA872 TPE-SFO 1155-0825 777

Guess overnight parking fees in TPE are low enough to justify 18 hours there? Would seem like they could tag something on to increase utilization, but most of SE Asia destinations are fairly low-yielding.

Quoting panamair (Reply 75):
IMHO, connections on BR are not going to play a big part...the main leverage UA is getting out of BR's Star membership will be having greater access to the local Taiwan-originating traffic, which, if they are members of FF programs, would either be aligned with BR or CI;
Quoting legacyins (Reply 73):
I guess another question is, what does BR offer to UA that they do not already have.

Interesting thoughts. I would think that with BR's two-dozen destinations in China that there would be some good connection opportunities, but of course there are other ways to get there including CA. Because UA and BR have already started reciprocal mileage agreements, maybe there is a plan for the two airlines to work more closely together?
More than a dozen years flying in and around Asia...
 
codc10
Posts: 2935
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 76):

Btw - proposed schedule pending slots:

UA871 SFO-TPE 1330-1755 777
UA872 TPE-SFO 1155-0825 777

It's way too much airplane, but it would be good to see a TPE-GUM turn reinstated with that idle 777.
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:13 pm

Isn't it odd that conventional wisdom says TPE is low yielding, yet UA is putting 3-class instead of 2-class 777 on it ?

Wouldn't this route be the ideal candidate for 787 instead ?
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 25015
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:18 pm

Quoting christao17 (Reply 77):
Guess overnight parking fees in TPE are low enough to justify 18 hours there? Would seem like they could tag something on to increase utilization, but most of SE Asia destinations are fairly low-yielding.

Its not a matter of parking fees, but simply the manner the schedules must work to provide hub connectivity on the US end.

AA, CO, DL, UA all leave aircraft overnight in Asia.

This proposed Taipei schedule is pretty close to the historic schedule. TPE departure is just a little bit earlier now (used to be about 1-2pm).

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 79):
Isn't it odd that conventional wisdom says TPE is low yielding, yet UA is putting 3-class instead of 2-class 777 on it ?

Its true. Just like ICN and even KIX. Hopefully BR friendship and FF'er base will help things out better this time.

Keep in mind historically this route was long time a 744 run for UA.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 79):
Wouldn't this route be the ideal candidate for 787 instead ?

I think it comes down to hoping for the best load/yield mix. Load wise a 744 can be filled at TPE, its more a matter of getting the right revenue mix. Maybe a 787 be too small. Also outbound cargo from RoC must play a part.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
laca773
Posts: 2081
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:29 am

SFO-TPE seems like it will be a natural fit for UA's SFO Asian hub. I was also wondering once they have enough 788s, will they switch over to it. This will definitely be flown with a 76W. Since BR will be a full Star partner, this will give passengers more options on where they can connect to go throughout Asia.

I'm still surprised about SFO-CDG. I know UA has many corporate customers in the Bay Area, but does it justify a daily nonstop, albeit on a 763? I think AF has this market pretty much wrapped up, though we'll definitely see how it does for them.
 
User avatar
legacyins
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:51 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 81):
was also wondering once they have enough 788s, will they switch over to it. This will definitely be flown with a 76W.

Do you mean it will be flown by a 76W (?) in the future? As of now, it loaded as a 777.
 
User avatar
Schweigend
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:47 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:18 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 81):
I'm still surprised about SFO-CDG. I know UA has many corporate customers in the Bay Area, but does it justify a daily nonstop, albeit on a 763? I think AF has this market pretty much wrapped up, though we'll definitely see how it does for them.

San Francisco and Paris are great World Cities, both with lots of charm. A U.S. airline connecting them with the right aircraft -- in this case, the 763W -- makes a lot of sense, IMO.

I agree with you that the Bay Area market for CDG is probably maxed out, so UA must intend to take customers from AF and others. I believe there are plentiful Mileage Plus members in the region who currently are giving their business to AF, or living with a connecting flight to Paris on *A airlines. Now they'll have a non-stop on United.
 
anonms
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:42 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 45):
IIRC the Taiwanese carriers are not allowed to sell seats for transpac pax to transit thru TPE to mainland China.

Define "transit thru TPE". If you mean they can't have tag-on flight segments under the same flight number, then that would make sense. However, CI did sell me a SFO-TPE-SZX ticket.
This is my signature.
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting legacyins (Reply 82):
Do you mean it will be flown by a 76W (?) in the future? As of now, it loaded as a 777.

My thoughts too. 767 would choke on SFO-TPE westbound against any type of headwinds.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 80):
This proposed Taipei schedule is pretty close to the historic schedule. TPE departure is just a little bit earlier now (used to be about 1-2pm).

UA loves to have their entire Asian bank arrive SFO in the morning, thus straining immigration and customs like no tomorrow. The entire afternoon it's close to a ghost town (until those handful of departures around midnight).
 
AADC10
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:40 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
I hope they will send 787s from SFO to CDG in the future...

I hope that they do not. The 767 has wider seats, aisles and fewer middle seats. The 787 is a carbon fiber sardine can, better for the airline than the passenger.

Quoting hohd (Reply 56):
From SFO, they will only have a limited West Coast traffic transfering at SFO due to the geography. So they are counting on more O & D from SFO area.

UA is also counting on feed from Los Angeles. LAX-SFO-CDG has a shorter flight time than the other possibilities and a much briefer segment on a domestic aircraft. SFO also has better international arrival facilities than IAD or ORD. I have not been through EWR.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 79):
Isn't it odd that conventional wisdom says TPE is low yielding, yet UA is putting 3-class instead of 2-class 777 on it ?

Wouldn't this route be the ideal candidate for 787 instead ?

PMUA and PMCO are still not fully integrated and there are not enough PMCO 772s available to send to TPE. Most SFO operations are still PMUA. The PMUA 2-class 772s are domestic aircraft and while they are probably capable of operating the route, they are essentially big Ghetto Birds and the cabin is certainly not up to international standards. UA has indicated that most of the initial 787s, which were ordered by PMCO, will operate out of IAH. They are also eliminating the NRT-TPE route so a 787 might actually not have enough seats since SFO-TPE will be the only flight but I would not be surprised to see the 787 on the route eventually, perhaps seasonally.
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:56 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 86):
SFO also has better international arrival facilities than IAD or ORD. I have not been through EWR.

EWR ? Absolutely nothing to write home about. Standard INS uptight boredom.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2234
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:41 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 85):
UA loves to have their entire Asian bank arrive SFO in the morning, thus straining immigration and customs like no tomorrow. The entire afternoon it's close to a ghost town (until those handful of departures around midnight).

Apparently you've not gone through customs/immigration when the European flight bank arrives. It can be very very busy from about 1 p.m. on through 7-8 p.m. You have multiple flights from LHR, FRA and MUC with CDG and ZUR as well. I'm sure I'm missing some more but its far from a ghost town at SFO in the afternoon.
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:46 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 88):
Apparently you've not gone through customs/immigration when the European flight bank arrives. It can be very very busy from about 1 p.m. on through 7-8 p.m. You have multiple flights from LHR, FRA and MUC with CDG and ZUR as well. I'm sure I'm missing some more but its far from a ghost town at SFO in the afternoon.

Are those spread out over 6 hours, or all lumped together ?

UA's Asian arrivals are all very bunched up (kinda like LHR at 7am)
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:05 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 30):
I think unlike past attempts at SFO-CDG, this has a better chance given some new factors:

1. Smaller a/c with two classes of service;
2. The combined carrier is larger with a bigger potential pool of passengers to draw from;
3. The a/c itself is more efficient with its overhaul.

I think the yields stunk before due to too much capacity and the AF competition. UA must have analyzed AF's SFO operation and saw a chance to pull down some good cash with a right-sized a/c.

I sincerely doubt UA will have goo yields to CDG. For AF, even alone on this route, it has been said many times on this forum that SFO is one of their weaker route in terms of yields in north America. So with again, 2 players...
 
User avatar
legacyins
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:56 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 90):
it has been said many times on this forum that SFO is one of their weaker route in terms of yields in north America. So with again, 2 players...


I have no idea about the yields, as most people do not unless they work in the yield management area of an airline or can deduce the information from various "paid" website statistical data, but AF has always been a strong player on the SFO-CDG route. They are currently offering two daily flights during the summer and during W12, will offer serve SFO will a 3(?) class 772ER.

IMO, they make all their money in the Summer/Spring/Fall to supplement their Winter flight.
 
etoile
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:22 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:33 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 90):
So with again, 2 players...

Three with XL
 
n782nc
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:31 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:00 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 90):
I sincerely doubt UA will have goo yields to CDG. For AF, even alone on this route, it has been said many times on this forum that SFO is one of their weaker route in terms of yields in north America.

Really? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that SFO consistently vies with IAD as AF's strongest performing US route. I recall this being mentioned over the last year, especially after AF brought in the A380.
Stairway to Seven
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:59 am

Quoting legacyins (Reply 91):
IMO, they make all their money in the Summer/Spring/Fall to supplement their Winter flight.

very likely

Quoting etoile (Reply 92):
Three with XL

you are correct, but with such a low frequency offered and their pricing startegy, I don't think they are a real threat to AF and UA. The pax they target are the same as Corsair.

Quoting N782NC (Reply 93):
Really? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that SFO consistently vies with IAD as AF's strongest performing US route. I recall this being mentioned over the last year, especially after AF brought in the A380.

AF has certainly a high traffic volume to SFO, no doubt about this but the question here is yields. I don't know if SFO is earning money or not (and I hope this route is profitable), but it is certainly not a stellar route. IAD is the strongest in terms of yields. They do not offer F to SFO, which shows it's not a premium route. Outside IAD, I'm pretty sure IAH, LAX and JFK are way ahead SFO in terms of yields.
Regarding the A380 to SFO, keep in mind that the brief last summer service was just one shot and was following to Fukushima disaster and the temporary withdrawal of the A380 to NRT by AF (due to dramatic drop in traffic). They had this frame available and they decided to put it to SFO, because the traffic is high during the summer.
 
User avatar
flylku
Posts: 597
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:44 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 32):
weight restrictions will happen, but that means you wont be near the MGTOW.

I'm missing something. Why might it not go out at MGTOW? I can see factors like density altitude/runway length and perhaps CG as restrictions but other than that, if the mission requires max fuel wouldn't they sell seats and cargo until they reach MGTOW?
...are we there yet?
 
warden145
Posts: 539
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:36 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:21 pm

Quoting goldorak (Reply 94):
Regarding the A380 to SFO, keep in mind that the brief last summer service was just one shot and was following to Fukushima disaster and the temporary withdrawal of the A380 to NRT by AF (due to dramatic drop in traffic). They had this frame available and they decided to put it to SFO, because the traffic is high during the summer.

That makes sense. However...

Quoting goldorak (Reply 94):
I don't know if SFO is earning money or not (and I hope this route is profitable), but it is certainly not a stellar route. IAD is the strongest in terms of yields. They do not offer F to SFO, which shows it's not a premium route. Outside IAD, I'm pretty sure IAH, LAX and JFK are way ahead SFO in terms of yields.

...if IAH, LAX, and JFK are ahead of SFO in terms of yields, why did AF send the temporarily available A380 to SFO and not one of those other three airports?
ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
 
User avatar
SFOA380
Posts: 579
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:35 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:37 pm

Quoting warden145 (Reply 96):
...if IAH, LAX, and JFK are ahead of SFO in terms of yields, why did AF send the temporarily available A380 to SFO and not one of those other three airports?

I doubt SFO is a yield dump. The presence of large, Fortune 500 companies based in the Bay Area is tremendous and Paris certainly has a ton of global 500 companies as has been previously stated. 9 of the 10 largest companies in California are based in and around San Francisco so there must be plenty of high-yield demand.
 
jjeff
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:52 am

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:32 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 85):
UA is also counting on feed from Los Angeles. LAX-SFO-CDG has a shorter flight time than the other possibilities and a much briefer segment on a domestic aircraft.

Exactly.
 
point2point
Posts: 2093
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: UA To Reinstate SFO-CDG/TPE

Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:19 pm

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 97):
I doubt SFO is a yield dump.

Well, at least domestically, it is lower than DEN, and just above LAX when comparing ticket yields.

The data the I have is a Boyd study, and it is Q4 of 2010, so yes, a bit dated, but this is the most current that I can find that shows ticket yield.

http://www.aviationplanning.com/Imag...20Analysis%20of%20US%20Traffic.pdf

With that, please remember that these are DOMESTIC only. I would think that international might be higher, but hey, DEN has quite high yields on its international flights since it has so few, so......

Below are listed the ticket yields for each current UA domestic hub.

IAH.... 0.1863
CLE.... 0.1819
ORD.... 0.1759
EWR.... 0.1614
IAD.... 0.1450
DEN.... 0.1418
SFO.... 0.1220
LAX.... 0.1206

The numbers are in US dollars, so for example, stated another way, IAH would 18.63 cents.

And with this..... everyone can judge on their own if SFO is a yields dump or not.....




 

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos