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Acheron
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:18 pm

Quoting BigJKU (Reply 17):

To be fair PM John really crosses a lot of common business practices for many people. He sells a good product, there is really no need for some of the over the top crap he likes to do from time to time. It is going to strike a lot of people the wrong way and generate negative reactions.

Kind of like when Tinseth likes to run his mouth as well, and those who bash Leahy defend Tinseth?.
 
Aircellist
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:26 pm

Well, at least he has the honesty and (relative) modesty of coming up front with the "bad" news.

And, yet, he's still been right on many predictions.

His style may displease many persons, I admit.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
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PM
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:38 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 49):
Anyone think there's a slim chance that Asiana might consider the A380 to remain competitive against Korean Air ?

Somewhat better than "slim", I'd say.  http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...es/asiana-orders-six-a380s-351544/
 
747400sp
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:40 pm

This is sad new for me, since I am a VLA lover. It is really a hard knocks life for us VLA lovers.   
 
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zeke
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:15 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 49):
HKG is about to begin constructing a 3rd runway and new terminal, so neither gate nor slots would be remotely constrained for the next 20 years.

HKG is already slot constrained at various times of the day, as well as gate constrained. And we are just talking about airport slots, slots to get onto various airways in many directions are constrained as well. I have head some people given a slot time with over a 24 hours wait to get to PVG from HKG, try breaking that to an aircraft full of passengers after all the doors are closed.
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AirPacific747
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:30 am

Quoting PM (Reply 52):
Somewhat better than "slim", I'd say.

The A380 looks really good in the Asiana livery based on the picture there..
 
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SFOA380
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:31 am

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 5):
Now moved to 12:45 tomorrow - this has got to be an order - I think that TK is going to order some A380s!

I love the A380 but isn't this a bit much for TK? Trying to keep up with the Jones'?
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:55 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 24):
Anyone want to argue that he's not successful? Very successful, even, at his job?

I have frequently voiced respect for JL's ability and record of accomplishment. That being said, he is still human, and humans make mistakes, misstatements, and sometimes do not anticipate events correctly. If he anticipated the world economic state to improve this year (for which I would say he was smoking something) and not anticipating the wing crack issue, I can understand his optimism for A380 sales. However, actual events have been somewhat less than kind. I do not attach any particular blame to JL for the result. He is man enough to admit that he is likely to be proved wrong.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
zoom1018
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:07 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 54):

HKG is already slot constrained at various times of the day, as well as gate constrained. And we are just talking about airport slots, slots to get onto various airways in many directions are constrained as well. I have head some people given a slot time with over a 24 hours wait to get to PVG from HKG, try breaking that to an aircraft full of passengers after all the doors are closed.

I still see many flights operated by A320s... change that.
 
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Btblue
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:21 am

Don't BA have a top up order in the pipeline? They have a shed load of 747s that will need replacing and I am certain a 777W won't do the job for many of the routes.
 
brilondon
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:52 am

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 20):

That is for sure, especially when the industry and the markets are so hungry for some positive news. TK probably went with the A380 and A330 deal over the B748. Understandable decision but never-less a blow the 747-8 program.

KrisYYZ

How is this a blow to the 747-8 program? As far I can see, TK won't be ordering a huge amount of aircraft.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
astuteman
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:34 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 42):
Quoting astuteman (Reply 24):I'm sure there must have been a reason for this rant. For the life of me I can't make out what it was...

I'm sure you're astute enough to figure it out even though you might disagree with it.

Sadly no.
It made, and still makes, no sense to me.
For me, it was also out of character for the poster...

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 58):
If he anticipated the world economic state to improve this year (for which I would say he was smoking something) and not anticipating the wing crack issue, I can understand his optimism for A380 sales. However, actual events have been somewhat less than kind. I do not attach any particular blame to JL for the result. He is man enough to admit that he is likely to be proved wrong.

This I can understand.

Being criticised for being man enough to admit he's going to be proved wrong doesn't make much sense to me.

Rgds
 
zkeye
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:56 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Understatement of the decade.

we are less than 1/3rd of the way through it yet......
Bring out the gimp
 
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Revelation
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:48 pm

Quoting BigJKU (Reply 26):
It really is very simple for me. Some of the most successful people I know in my field (which is sales and finance related) are total dicks who take every chance to talk down their competition and are generally not liked. Other equally successful people will, even when given the chance to say something, decline to do so and instead focus on what they offer.

  

This is the heart of the matter for me.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 30):
It was Leahy himself that conceded that he's unlikely to reach the self-proclaimed target for the A380 this year.

The real question is why would he make such a bombastic statement:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
I've told Tom [Enders, Airbus chief executive] that I'm going to sell 30 A380s this year,"

.. to begin with ...

Quoting anfromme (Reply 30):
From what we've seen and heard before and during the show, I think in this particular case, it was CX that spoilt Leahy's (and Airbus') target

... especially if it's success depended on one deal, and he had no feasible backup plan?

Quoting chuchoteur (Reply 44):
...In reply to some of the above, one of the things John Leahy is good at is closing a deal, even if the people on the other side of the table don't like him.

I've called him a great salesman, and this indeed seems to be his greatest talent, however, I'd encourage people to consider that he's not the only one who works for Airbus's sales and marketing team.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 58):
If he anticipated the world economic state to improve this year (for which I would say he was smoking something) and not anticipating the wing crack issue, I can understand his optimism for A380 sales. However, actual events have been somewhat less than kind. I do not attach any particular blame to JL for the result. He is man enough to admit that he is likely to be proved wrong.

IMHO his statement was so full of certitude, he shouldn't be cut any slack.

If he said "I believe me and my team will sell 30 A380s this year" I'd be cutting him some slack.

Yet he said to journalist(s), "I've told Tom [Enders, Airbus chief executive] that I'm going to sell 30 A380s this year".

Big difference, says me...

Quoting anfromme (Reply 40):
So you're admittinig that your posts had vitriol in them. With that established, I think the answer to "why does the vitriol get more comment" is that, in a post with 80% vitriol, nobody really believes that the three questions posed in the last six lines of that post are more than rhetorical in nature

Eh? The most appropriate definition for vitriol from directory.com is something highly caustic or severe in effect, as criticism. Yes, my statement had much criticism, some severe, and some colourful expressions to emphasixe the statement, but it started with two direct, clear quotes from JL himself. There was much to chose from on the table, but some chose to eat dessert before dinner, and have sore stomachs as a result.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 64):
it was also out of character for the poster...

Thanks. As above, salesman are a hot button item for me these days. I presume in your very important line of work that your smaller customer base limits your exposure to them.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 64):
Being criticised for being man enough to admit he's going to be proved wrong doesn't make much sense to me.

His admission was that the market was weaker than anticipated, which is a pretty milque toast, self serving admission in my book.

The world has not changed that much since February.

It seems the chief thing that has changed is that the great deal closer has not been able to close one deal that he was quite certain he would be able to close in February.

It's also clear that he had no feasible backup strategy should he not be able to close that one deal.

Live by the sword, die by the sword...
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astuteman
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:40 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 68):
I'd encourage people to consider that he's not the only one who works for Airbus's sales and marketing team.

I'd perhaps encourage his critics likewise...

Quoting Revelation (Reply 68):
I presume in your very important line of work that your smaller customer base limits your exposure to them.

I've seen my share of bolshy salesmen.........

I guess what I see is that getting hung up on him in such a fashion is likely to do little more than draw large quantities of the very defence of him that you are equally likely to take exception to......

I'm looking inwards to see why JL being wrong doesn't bother me to anything like the same degree.
Even the best eff up sometime..

On topic I have to say that I personally wouldn't fancy trying to sell A380's when the business behind you seems to be unable to build them on time or in the condition that the customers need them to be in for love nor money.
I'm absolutely certain that the wing rib feet issue, and its effect on deliveries is causing potential customers to sit firmly on their hands.
On the back of all the delays we've already had, I find that a lot more frustrating that JL's antics.

You never know. At this rate 15 orders this year might keep him at "book-to-bill" parity for the year  

Rgds
 
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Revelation
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:52 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 64):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 68):
I'd encourage people to consider that he's not the only one who works for Airbus's sales and marketing team.

I'd perhaps encourage his critics likewise...

It's pretty difficult, given how fond JL is of using the first person.

My feeling about the blogs of the two Randys (lol) is that focus much more on the product much more than themselves. The first Randy (lol again!) did seem to convey the personal pride and satisfaction he felt when the product hit a milestone or when Boeing won a big sales campaign. The second Randy (ok, no more lols...) is pretty milque toast about everything.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 64):
You never know. At this rate 15 orders this year might keep him at "book-to-bill" parity for the year

It is pretty worrying for an aviation enthusiast to see how many programs all around the world do not seem to be able to track to plan, and a good chunk of that seems to be issues with manufacturing and supply chain.

It seems the past era was all about the ongoing improvement of aerodynamic and engine performance.

I think this era should be called "The Revenge of the Manufacturing Engineers"!  
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
redrooster3
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:46 pm

So what happened to that special event at 12:45 today? Did TK order some A380's?
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EPA001
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:10 pm

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 66):
So what happened to that special event at 12:45 today?

There was a flash-mob to recruit new personel for Airbus.

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 66):
Did TK order some A380's?

Then you would have read about it big time. Even if they would have dismissed the A380 you would have read about it big time.
 
cosmofly
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:32 pm

More and more people will fly and as the A380 evolves and improves, it will dominate the VLA market in decades to come. So we just have to be patient for the next order.
 
chuchoteur
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:22 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 63):
I'd encourage people to consider that he's not the only one who works for Airbus's sales and marketing team.

Of course.

In actual fact, I doubt John Leahy actually runs any sales campaigns himself these days. But he's there when a deal is set up and needs to be closed, and I believe he is quite influential in doing so when the sales and marketing teams have run out of ideas on how to get the final signatures.

Sometimes, taking commitments to the purchase agreement stage is the most delicate phase and he is good at that.
From a management perspective, he has also been essential to Airbus in setting up a successful organisation.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:52 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 63):

If he said "I believe me and my team will sell 30 A380s this year" I'd be cutting him some slack.

Yet he said to journalist(s), "I've told Tom [Enders, Airbus chief executive] that I'm going to sell 30 A380s this year".

The answer is the type of person JL is. He is extremely self-confident, and a bit arrogant, as well as optimistic. These are all a part of what makes him so successful at what he does. In the end, Enders (and the rest of the Airbus board) are ultimately concerned about how many planes he sells, not what he says. And he has sold A LOT of planes, even if he doesn't sell 30 A380's this year.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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PW100
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RE: Leahy No Longer Expects 30 A380 Orders In 2012

Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:45 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 63):
. . . I'd encourage people to consider that he's not the only one who works for Airbus's sales and marketing team.

Well off course. But then again, nobody is waiving flags when Joe Sutter is appreciated for developing and building the 747.
Well off course he did not build it all by himself. He was leading a marvellous engineering team that in the end resulted in an iconic airliner. Just as Leahy built and leads a sales team that sells thousands and thousands of airplanes.
The thing is he is being creditted for building and leading that team. So he is responsible for success. And he will have to bear the responsibility to Enders if they don't sell . . .

Just last night I saw an episode of Megafactories . . . Boeing Everett, building the 747. There was an interview with Sutter, and in that interview he claimed to be the father of various great ideas that made the 747 so good. He made a lot of references to himself, rather than his engineering and production teams. I don't think JL is doing anything different here. It goes with the job of leading great teams, apparently.

Rgds,
PW100
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