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flylku
Posts: 597
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:44 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 15):
it looks like in the first 7 minutes of the problem, it only lost 240 ft of altitude.

Shoot, a lightly loaded one can climb at a faster rate than that!
...are we there yet?
 
ghifty
Posts: 906
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:12 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:34 am

Quoting windowflyer (Reply 47):
I heard the wings started to separate and expand just before landing too.

   Tintin Flight 714, anybody?
Fly Delta (Wid)Jets

Comments made here reflect only my personal opinions.
 
N505fx
Posts: 336
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:02 am

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:21 am

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 49):
The terrible post-merger integration and Smisek's awful awful leadership led to this!!!

Well, it would be nice to be able to blame this on Count Smisacula, but I don't think it will stick, unfortunately.
 
anrec80
Posts: 2579
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:12 am

BTW UA in addition to this 752, also sends a 772 and a 763 to LHR. Pretty adequate capacity and frequency IMHO. Nothing pathetic, capacity is similar to BA on that route (2x 772) and certainly more than VS (346).
 
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skygirl1990
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:01 am

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:13 am

My interest was piqued when I saw the title of the thread, and then as soon as I opened it and saw that it was a Daily Mail link... Not going to even bother opening the link now...  
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5349
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:46 am

Quoting skygirl1990 (Reply 56):

HA! I had the same reaction.

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 54):

pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

Quoting MikeCT (Reply 41):

Its like a force field. Glows and everything. Pretty darn cool if you ask me. Every now and then you'll see super man himself flying in the widebody types.   

In the real world, Any airline that has ETOPS-120 or 180(or ETOPS period) doesn't have many IFSDs or they would lose ETOPS on the aircraft type.
 
comorin
Posts: 3858
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:52 am

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:34 am

If I may ask, what are the most common causes of IFSD?

Thanks much.
 
acidradio
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 3:19 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:38 am

This thread is going in many different directions. Can the Daily Mail be dubious at times? Of course - that's why people read it, right? Is a load of 50 on a 757 (and 9 crew members) light? Sure it is - just think about all the extra meals and liquor you get to partake in. Is a 757 a small bird to go across the pond in? I dunno - Charles Lindbergh made it in something smaller. Is Jeff Smisek responsible for all this? Why not, he seems to be the whipping boy at UA for everything now, why not just pile it on (he may disagree though).

Regardless, I hate to spoil the fun but this thread is about UA 130 IAD-LHR diverting due to an IFSD. For the sake of clarity please stick to the subject. I don't really want to go through and delete posts because nothing stands out to me as flagrantly obscene but if everyone could stick to the original subject I would be greatly appreciative. Thanks!
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
SKAirbus
Posts: 1545
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:37 am

The Daily Mail is the British equivalent of Fox News so I'd take what's written there with a pinch of salt. Sensationalism is their middle name!

But certainly sounds scary.
Base: BRU
 
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jetfuel
Posts: 1078
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:27 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:07 am

Headlines news in Australia and reported as a 737   
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1981
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:04 pm

Quoting usxguy (Reply 28):
I just looked at today's seat map and I'm surprised its not packed to the gills. Only 3 F seats of 16 taken.. holy moly.. I remember a time when every UA flt to London was packed.... what's happening?!

This is my question too. The news here reports the plane only had 50 passengers!!! At the height of the summer -- to LHR? What's that about?

That's enough space for every economy passenger to have his own row!

I don't care for narrowbodies for longer flights, but with that light load, the flight would have been very comfortable.
 
CHRISBA777ER
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:33 pm

Daily Mail reporting that it was a maintenance problem caused by immigrants stealing our jobs.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
SKAirbus
Posts: 1545
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 61):
Daily Mail reporting that it was a maintenance problem caused by immigrants stealing our jobs.

Not to mention the gays! Although that is more between the lines reading  ).

Haha brilliant.
Base: BRU
 
DBQ
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:29 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:29 pm

Quoting 135mech (Reply 11):
Descending to 20,000 ft (however they did it, plunging or not) gets you out of the air traffic main altitudes and gives you time to dump fuel and plan your re-route with out affecting the other commercial mainline traffice routes.

A 757 can't dump fuel, can it?
 
fraT
Posts: 1117
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:45 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 60):
This is my question too. The news here reports the plane only had 50 passengers!!! At the height of the summer -- to LHR? What's that about?

The problem with many flights to LHR these days is that due to the Olympics, the hotel prices in LHR went up to ridiculous levels and so many tourists stayed home, especially those not interested in sports.
Since BD is not in Star Alliance/A++ anymore, there are not that many feeder possibilities for connecting traffic beyond LHR. This traffic goes mainly via FRA, MUC, ZRH and other Star hubs.
 
goosebayguy
Topic Author
Posts: 700
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:12 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:47 pm

50 PAX is pretty amazing for a flight to LHR at present. LHR figures are up recently despite the lousy UK weather over the past few weeks. Is UA having difficulty matching BA on price or service?
 
EIDL
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:11 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting 135mech (Reply 64):
Yes, every aircraft flying has to be able to have fuel dump capabilites just for the purpose of emergency landings and situations like this.

A huge number of aircraft have no fuel dump capabilities. Its either burn it off in flight or make a heavy landing.
 
UALWN
Posts: 2186
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:27 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:59 pm

Quoting 135mech (Reply 68):
Umm... it's an FAA requirement for the US built aircraft.

Uh? I guess somehow the 737 and 757 got a waver, since they are not able to dump fuel....
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/350/380
 
EIDL
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:11 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting 135mech (Reply 68):
Umm... it's an FAA requirement for the US built aircraft.

You may want to remind Boeing.
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:10 pm

Quoting 135mech (Reply 68):
Umm... it's an FAA requirement for the US built aircraft.

Only on types where the maximum take-off weight is significantly higher than the maximum landing weight.
 
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RobK
Posts: 3645
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:43 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting AussieItaliano (Reply 26):
The Daily Mail also reported that the flight was halfway across the Atlantic. I looked on Flight Aware, and it appears that this flight turned back to St. John's when it was about 300 miles east of Newfoundland - hardly halfway across the Atlantic! Typical of the Daily Mail!

It was nearly half way across. See reply 12. It's around 20 mins between 10 degrees of longitude at that latitude so as it passed 40W at 0304z then declared the emergency at 0324z it would've been around 36-35W when it turned back.

You can't rely on flightaware anymore now as the majority of their position info is guessed ("flightaware approximate") and more often than not it is wildly inaccurate.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting 135mech (Reply 68):
Quoting EIDL (Reply 67):
Quoting 135mech (Reply 64):
Yes, every aircraft flying has to be able to have fuel dump capabilites just for the purpose of emergency landings and situations like this.


A huge number of aircraft have no fuel dump capabilities. Its either burn it off in flight or make a heavy landing.

Umm... it's an FAA requirement for the US built aircraft.

The requirement is that any airplane is capable of landing at its MTOW safely (structural damage is allowed) or it must have the capability to dump fuel to get to an acceptable weight. The only narrowbody that Boeing produces that can dump fuel is the P-8A version of the 737. Fuel dump is an option on 767s and is not standard equipment.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2021
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting 135mech (Reply 64):
Yes, every aircraft flying has to be able to have fuel dump capabilites just for the purpose of emergency landings and situations like this.

Nope, guess again.

Quoting 135mech (Reply 68):
Umm... it's an FAA requirement for the US built aircraft.

Nope.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 69):
I guess somehow the 737 and 757 got a waver, since they are not able to dump fuel....

 
Quoting David L (Reply 71):
Only on types where the maximum take-off weight is significantly higher than the maximum landing weight.

Bingo, thank you David L.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3961
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:38 am

There are no modern built western aircraft narrowbody airliners with fuel dump capability- I believe the last one was the 727.

Even the non ER 767's do not have fuel dump.

More on topic, yet another horribly irresponsible reporting job by the media.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
Thai744
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:25 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:43 am

Most scary was that UA only had 50 pax on the flight - not good for the bottom line really, is it?
 
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zeke
Posts: 14779
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: UA Flight Drops 20,000ft Mid Atlantic

Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:30 pm

Quoting MikeCT (Reply 18):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "drifting down" more of the just the term that's used? As far as I understand it, descending after an engine failure involves consulting a chart for best speed and maintaining that speed to control your descent to the desired altitude. Weren't/aren't they even called drift down charts? I'm getting this information mostly from various other people I've talked to so don't beat me up if I'm not even close.

A number of strategies exist, and what you use will depend on the situation. These strategies are a normal descent, this would possibly be the case here, ATC would want the aircraft to descend down below the RVSM levels as fast as possible to avoid traffic conflicts.

The other two are an ETOPS strategy which would be a MMo/Vmo descent (it is part of the ETOPS approval, part of the planning, but does not need to be flown), or the drift down, which is normally used for terrain clearance. The drift down which is normally done at the best L/D speed with thrust at MCT, this gives the lowest rate of descent.

Normally any sort of descent due to a loss of thrust will be accompanied with an offset from track to avoid traffic. There are standard contingency procedures promulgated for this.
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