Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
PHX787
Topic Author
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:52 pm

Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 98):
Any ideas on the next airline to start regular scheduled flights out of Williams Gateway? From what I can tell both Sprit and Allegiant are doing very well from IWA.

Maybe VX might do something, but I have a feeling they'd rather be at Sky Harbor.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 98):
Any ideas on the next airline to start regular scheduled flights out of Williams Gateway? From what I can tell both Sprit and Allegiant are doing very well from IWA.


I always thought a DL RJ to SLC would work. The demographics would support the flight from an O&D perspective (large Mormon population on both ends). The flight would also open up connection opportunities to major destinations that neither NK nor G4 serve from AZA. However, G4's new flight to OGD probably put an end to that.

At this point I think it would be difficult for any existing domestic carrier at PHX to open a route at AZA. They would be competing against ultra low fares and would need a cost structure similar to NK or G4 in order to make the route work. Maaaayyybe B6 to JFK, however, they would need to capture a lot of traffic that would normally fly US from PHX-JFK otherwise B6 would only end up cannibalizing their own PHX-JFK flight.

However, I could see WS attempting to fly a route from AZA to Canada. The east valley is full of Canadians part of the year. While AZA does not have facilities to support international flights, flights from many Canadian cities have pre-clearance so the lack of immigration/custom facilities at AZA becomes a non-issue.
 
aztrainer
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:17 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:10 pm

I do like the idea of DL and RJ service to SLC. The populations are on both sides of the equations.

VX - I do not see them using AZA/IWA as the infrastructure is not there yet.

B6 - They are already at PHX, so I do not think that they would split the service.

NK and G4 are two very unique airlines and I do not know if their success would have the same effect on other airlines.

I wonder what would/could happen if AA and US merge and then US removes some frequency from PHX. How much of an effect would this have on expansion of AZA/IWA? T-2 is going to need to be refurbished or completely demolished and raised within 15 - 20 years. (Asbestos shorts on) Could they move the airlines out of T-2 over to AZA/IWA and the provide shuttle service to PHX? I do not think this is going to work for UA, AS and Great Lakes. If/When they do renovate T-2 where would they move UA, AS and Great Lakes?
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9865
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:25 pm

I don't understand all the jiggyness of IWA (AZA) and the airlines serving them or propose to serve the airport. IWA is about a good 35-45 minutes away from downtown Phoenix. The airport sits in the middle of nowhere, east of everything. Anything east of the airport (Save for Apache Junction) is nothing but desert.

Can someone explain to me as to why one would want to fly into IWA (AZA) instead of PHX? That is almost a hassle to fly into IWA (AZA). To me, that is a long-ass drive to PHX and also to TUS, even to FLG.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
PHX787
Topic Author
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 103):
Can someone explain to me as to why one would want to fly into IWA (AZA) instead of PHX? That is almost a hassle to fly into IWA (AZA). To me, that is a long-ass drive to PHX and also to TUS, even to FLG.

Easy- There's a LOT of people in Mesa.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
User avatar
treebeard787
Posts: 742
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:03 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:33 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 102):
Could they move the airlines out of T-2 over to AZA/IWA and the provide shuttle service to PHX? I do not think this is going to work for UA, AS and Great Lakes. If/When they do renovate T-2 where would they move UA, AS and Great Lakes?

There is plenty of room at PHX for UA AS and ZK if they close T2, ZK could use the commuter gates at T4 North (B concourses) or the commuter gates at T3 South. AS could fit their operations with DL at T3 North and UA could go to T4 with US. PHX can be quite busy at times and then be deserted for hours and then busy again and could support many more flights before any major expansion would be needed, and with IWA the demand at PHX is lessened.
Allons-y!
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9865
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:33 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 104):
There's a LOT of people in Mesa.

It is not that difficult to get on US60, head west to PHX. I never had a problem with living in Chandler and driving to PHX to fly out to wherever I needed to go via Loop 202 to I-10.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 103):
Can someone explain to me as to why one would want to fly into IWA (AZA) instead of PHX? That is almost a hassle to fly into IWA (AZA). To me, that is a long-ass drive to PHX and also to TUS, even to FLG.


The catchment area of AZA is roughly 1 million. In other words, approximately 1 million people live closer to AZA than PHX. This includes the cities of Chandler, Gilbert Mesa, Queen Creek, Florence, Apache Junction, Eloy, Casa Grande.

In addition, due to the low fares, there are people that travel from Tucson to AZA. I've bumped into a surprisingly high number of people who drove up from TUC to catch a flight out of AZA due to the lower fares.

Furthermore, I also know several people who live on the north side of the valley who drive down to AZA to catch flights because they are N/S and the fares are much lower. Therefore, while they drive itself may be longer, the total trip time is shorter because of the N/S flight.
 
User avatar
treebeard787
Posts: 742
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:03 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 103):
Can someone explain to me as to why one would want to fly into IWA (AZA) instead of PHX? That is almost a hassle to fly into IWA (AZA). To me, that is a long-ass drive to PHX and also to TUS, even to FLG.

IWA has a large population to draw from and is quite easy to get to from the east valley with the 202 freeway. IWA draws from Mesa, Eastern and Southeastern Chandler, Gilbert, Queen Creek and people will drive a ways for the seemingly low fares that G4 and NK have from IWA. Gateway is more convenient for the east valley then PHX. From southeast Chandler it can take 45 minutes to get to PHX and thats without traffic but it only takes 15 minutes to get to IWA.
Allons-y!
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9865
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:42 pm

I understand the population of the East Valley as I have lived in Chandler for 4 years. What I don't get is why anyone would fly G4 or NK, when the service levels are not as good as what PHX offers. G4 does not fly to many places that PHX offers with other airlines daily. As I understand it, G4 only flies to one place like 2-3 times a week when another airline flies to that destination daily at PHX.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 108):
From southeast Chandler it can take 45 minutes to get to PHX and thats without traffic but it only takes 15 minutes to get to IWA.

Already stated that in reply 103.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
User avatar
treebeard787
Posts: 742
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:03 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:04 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 109):
G4 only flies to one place like 2-3 times a week when another airline flies to that destination daily at PHX.

The thing with G4 is they aren't there to cater to Phoenix traffic, they want to bring people in from smaller towns to Phoenix-Mesa and sell them packages. What ever they get from IWA to these small towns is just a bonus. Another thing is that you can fly non-stop FAR-IWA for example where as with a major carrier from PHX you'd have to connect somewhere like DEN, SLC, ORD or MSP. In the case of the FAR-IWA and GFK-IWA services they draw a lot of people from Canada who want a cheap vacation to AZ. GFK-IWA is twice a week and isn't all that convenient for a business traveler and in that case they will continue to choose the major airlines who have daily service. The majority of people flying G4 and even NK are just going on a cheap vacation, business travelers will continue to use PHX with daily services.
Allons-y!
 
PHX787
Topic Author
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:05 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 106):
It is not that difficult to get on US60, head west to PHX. I never had a problem with living in Chandler and driving to PHX to fly out to wherever I needed to go via Loop 202 to I-10.

True but the fares these airlines offer are considerably lower. Lots of people use AZA as well if they're going to one of the resorts.

Quoting EricR (Reply 107):
In addition, due to the low fares, there are people that travel from Tucson to AZA. I've bumped into a surprisingly high number of people who drove up from TUC to catch a flight out of AZA due to the lower fares.

My buddy did that- Chicago-LAS-AZA on NK and then had my buddy take him to TUC.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
aztrainer
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:17 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:08 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 103):
I don't understand all the jiggyness of IWA (AZA) and the airlines serving them or propose to serve the airport. IWA is about a good 35-45 minutes away from downtown Phoenix. The airport sits in the middle of nowhere, east of everything. Anything east of the airport (Save for Apache Junction) is nothing but desert.

Can someone explain to me as to why one would want to fly into IWA (AZA) instead of PHX? That is almost a hassle to fly into IWA (AZA). To me, that is a long-ass drive to PHX and also to TUS, even to FLG.

To state that IWA is in the middle of nowhere is a little far fetched. I have grown up in AZ and remember when SCF was a small airport like CHD is now. IWA is in a place that will have a lot of growth around it and could have a nice niche market like the many smaller So Cal airports. Remember a lot of the land to the north of the airport was the old GM proving grounds that has been sold for residential development.

While there is not the service at IWA it is the hope that IWA will grow due to the high population in the east valley. I agree that G4 and NK are not at the service level as what can be found at PHX, but they are different LCC. IWA is a point A to point B airport right now with the hopes of getting bigger airlines. I am sure that people said that about SNA, ONT, BUR and other So Cal airports when LAX was much better served and provided better service.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 105):
There is plenty of room at PHX for UA AS and ZK if they close T2, ZK could use the commuter gates at T4 North (B concourses) or the commuter gates at T3 South. AS could fit their operations with DL at T3 North and UA could go to T4 with US. PHX can be quite busy at times and then be deserted for hours and then busy again and could support many more flights before any major expansion would be needed, and with IWA the demand at PHX is lessened.

Thanks for the info, I agree about the usage, but I did not know if US would be OK with giving gates to UA. US seems very busy in the morning and early evening and I think that these would be the hardest time that they would be getting hit. I totally agree that midday would be no problems as they seem very slow at that time.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:56 am

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 102):
Could they move the airlines out of T-2 over to AZA/IWA and the provide shuttle service to PHX?

Not a chance. PHX is a good 30 minutes from AZA, and that's with no traffic.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 102):
I do not think this is going to work for UA, AS and Great Lakes. If/When they do renovate T-2 where would they move UA, AS and Great Lakes?
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 105):
There is plenty of room at PHX for UA AS and ZK if they close T2, ZK could use the commuter gates at T4 North (B concourses)

ZK would likely go to B15 at T4. AS could fit into T3N (by Delta). As far as UA, there's not even enough gates for the current T4N operation in the morning rush (8-10AM), especially during the winter when AC and WS increase service.

Either way, it would seem the last concourse in T4 would have to be built before anyone moves over (whether it's AA assuming the merger goes through or UA if it doesn't)
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4401
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:53 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 91):
They do tours?

By the way, why on earth did that big Coyotes banner get taken down from the tower in May, before they lost?

Of course, as far as I know, all FAA facilities do tours. They suspended them for a couple of months when that story at JFK ATCT with the kid on frequency was all over the news (like that never happened before...   ). Unless something like that happens again, it's pretty easy to request a tour. Probably. I've never really had to do it. Just call the TRACON if you're interested. They'll probably set you up with an ASU intern or something, and they'll take you up to the tower and in the radar room.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 92):
They closed this past November and moved out to GEU.

Son of a... I actually liked that place. It had a pretty good view on the patio too. Do you know if they just wanted a better location or if the city had something to do with it? I know that PHX has been trying (and mostly failing) to acquire some of those buildings on the northern boundary to possibly build a fourth runway. It's a stupid idea. Honeywell won't move and a fourth runway won't matter unless Tempe quits being stupid and allows the airspace changes to accommodate simultaneous departures.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 112):
To state that IWA is in the middle of nowhere is a little far fetched.

Exactly. 20-30 years ago, it was definitely in the middle of nowhere. I live about six or seven miles southeast of IWA and I don't really even live in the middle of nowhere. Just close to it. Mesa and Gilbert have really grown around the airport, and Mesa's investments to the ASU Polytechnic Campus, Power Rd corridor, SR 802, the new resort on the old GM proving grounds (which will be the largest resort in Arizona), and airport business complex are making a huge impact. Urban planning classes all over the world actually use IWA as a study model as an "aerotropolis", a city that grows around an airport. That's been Mesa's goal since Willie AFB closed and it's working.

AirframeAS, just a minor detail.. IWA has a catchment area of something like two million. That's more than the entire metro area of LAS. It's also only about a 25-30 minute drive to Phoenix. It takes almost as long as that to get from downtown to Scottsdale.
 
hz747300
Posts: 2419
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:11 pm

What's the next airline to serve AWA then? I think it would be someone to SLC--perhaps DL or a DL affiliate.

Maybe California Pacific, you know, just to get the flights going before 25-August...
Keep on truckin'...
 
93Sierra
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:01 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:09 pm

Why not a AE flight 1 or 2 times a day to LAX?
 
mach2is2slowaz
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:25 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:21 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 103):

Living in Chandler, Gateway is about 9 miles and or about 10 min drive at best in even the worst traffic. Trying to get to Sky Harbor during rush hour from the east valley is painful and can easily take over an hour. Even with no traffic PHX is a 30 min drive. Then you have to deal with T4 security checks which almost always have a line and a 30 min wait unless you fly out of T3 which is much less painful. Gateway would be much easier for about 1/3 of the Valley residents to fly into and out of. I have flown out of Gateway only one time to Rapid City on G4 and overall it was pretty pain less. (they will nickel and dime you to death but the secret is to purchase your ticket at the counter which saves tones on the extra fees charged on their web site.) I was able to leave my house about an hour before departure, walked up to the terminal and still waited only about 30 min before we boarded the plane. About 2.5 hrs later we were in Rapid City total time of travel from my house to RAP was 3.5 hours. Leaving out of Sky harbor I have to leave the house at least 2.5 hours before departure and even earlier if anywhere near 7am or 4pm.
 
dlramp4life
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:23 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:34 pm

I go out of town for a week and there is PHX theard I missed out on... shoot..

Some good reads though
 
PHX787
Topic Author
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:33 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 114):
It's a stupid idea. Honeywell won't move and a fourth runway won't matter unless Tempe quits being stupid and allows the airspace changes to accommodate simultaneous departures.

Agreed, however, Is it the city of Tempe that's being a buttface or residents? Because only like 2 or 3% of tempe is in the final approach path of the airport. I live in that area and have NO issue whatsoever. (given of course I'm an aviation enthusiest) the loudest planes are the fighters, the AA MD80, and if the 744 takes off.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 118):
I go out of town for a week and there is PHX theard I missed out on... shoot..

Welcome back! What's on your mind regarding aviation here? 
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
dlramp4life
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:23 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 119):
Welcome back! What's on your mind regarding aviation here? 

Thank you!

I think you guys have covered everything... The only thing I can think of is AA ramp being overtaken by a vendor. I have heard rumors AE coming in but just like all these posts in this forum, they are all here say.

On HA news, they are leasing gate 26. When they will move all their operation over there is still a mystery.
 
aztrainer
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:17 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:39 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 120):
On HA news, they are leasing gate 26. When they will move all their operation over there is still a mystery.

Oh, Really.....That is very interesting and I wonder if this means that we will see the HA 330 now that the restrictions from T-3 are gone.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 119):
Agreed, however, Is it the city of Tempe that's being a buttface or residents? Because only like 2 or 3% of tempe is in the final approach path of the airport. I live in that area and have NO issue whatsoever. (given of course I'm an aviation enthusiest) the loudest planes are the fighters, the AA MD80, and if the 744 takes off.


Both, People of Tempe and thus they complain to the government. They clam the the noise of the planes effect the lives of the people that live there. This is what makes me mad in that PHX was there long before they were. On a side not I was on T-4 parking garage when FedEx MD-11 took off and you could hear all of the car alarms going off.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 118):
I go out of town for a week and there is PHX theard I missed out on... shoot..

Some good reads though

Welcome Back

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 120):
I think you guys have covered everything... The only thing I can think of is AA ramp being overtaken by a vendor. I have heard rumors AE coming in but just like all these posts in this forum, they are all here say.

AE does it for US Express correct? Do they do it for HA by any chance?
 
dlramp4life
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:23 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:41 am

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 121):
Oh, Really.....That is very interesting and I wonder if this means that we will see the HA 330 now that the restrictions from T-3 are gone.

That would be great! Besides gate 26 is a good parking spot to show off an A330.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 121):
Welcome Back

Thank you, it does feel good to back in AZ (sort of)

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 121):
AE does it for US Express correct? Do they do it for HA by any chance?

Piedmont does US Express, Servisair does HA. There are no AE employees in PHX
 
PHX787
Topic Author
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:25 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 120):
On HA news, they are leasing gate 26. When they will move all their operation over there is still a mystery.

I wonder when they move the gate they'll change the arrival and departure time. I can never get a good clean look at it landing.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 121):
Both, People of Tempe and thus they complain to the government. They clam the the noise of the planes effect the lives of the people that live there. This is what makes me mad in that PHX was there long before they were. On a side not I was on T-4 parking garage when FedEx MD-11 took off and you could hear all of the car alarms going off.

-_-    I'm going to go to the city clerk's office in a few days after I return from Japan. When was the last time that Tempe had a complaint about this? They and the city of Phoenix need to have a serious talk. If they allow simultaneous departures and landings, 1, it would look awesome, and 2, it would really improve efficiency. No more sitting in lines
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
aztrainer
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:17 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:39 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 123):
I'm going to go to the city clerk's office in a few days after I return from Japan. When was the last time that Tempe had a complaint about this? They and the city of Phoenix need to have a serious talk. If they allow simultaneous departures and landings, 1, it would look awesome, and 2, it would really improve efficiency. No more sitting in lines

People complain all of the time about noise, but the new generation engines are so damn quite. I work in Tempe and can tell when HA or DHL take off with the 767 as they sound so differet, but the rest seem to merge together.

I worked for my parents in downtown Phoenix in the 80's and 90's and remember the times of the 727, 737-200, MD-80, DC-9, DC-10. We could not put on car alarms as it would go off every time a plane would take off..... We never complained.

I lived on turn base final for SCF and never complained about the plane traffic and neither did the neighbors.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 122):
Piedmont does US Express, Servisair does HA. There are no AE employees in PHX

Thank you for the information. Do you think HA will continue with Servisair when they move to T-4 or used US ground crews?
 
Cactus739
Posts: 2256
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:41 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:32 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 123):
I wonder when they move the gate they'll change the arrival and departure time. I can never get a good clean look at it landing.

I don't see why they'd change their arrival / departure times just because they're using a different gate.
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
ridgid727
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:58 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:39 am

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 110):
The thing with G4 is they aren't there to cater to Phoenix traffic, they want to bring people in from smaller towns to Phoenix-Mesa and sell them packages

Thats exactly the case with G4, some cities they used to serve had 85-90% load factors but were at the tbottom of their ancillary fees collections, and many pax just used them for air transport between the two points, without booking hotels, rental cars etc thru Allegiant Travel.
 
aztrainer
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:17 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:02 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 123):
I wonder when they move the gate they'll change the arrival and departure time. I can never get a good clean look at it landing.

I doubt it as HA likes to have all of their Trans pacific flights come in before 10:00 - 12:00 HST to be able to turn the planes for their 14:00 - 16:00 departures back to the mainland.

The only way that a HA plane will come in when the sun is up is if they add a second flight and I do not see that happening anytime soon. LAX, LAS have multiple flights, but their demand is much higher.
 
wn676
Posts: 1751
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 120):
On HA news, they are leasing gate 26. When they will move all their operation over there is still a mystery.

I've noticed that HA has been using 26 off and on already for arrivals when B6 is still in the gate. Do they depart from there in the morning as well or do they tow back over?
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
PHX787
Topic Author
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:41 pm

Just in- Small plane crashes in Sedona airport.

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...hes-catches-fire-at-sedona-airport

Update- 3 dead. RIP  tombstone 

[Edited 2012-07-26 09:44:20]
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
mach2is2slowaz
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:25 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 129):

I hope that everyone is ok! Sedona has a pretty steep drop off at both ends of the runway!
 
dlramp4life
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:23 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:25 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 124):
Thank you for the information. Do you think HA will continue with Servisair when they move to T-4 or used US ground crews?

HA will stick to servisair but if they are looking for a new vendor I think DL would fulfill the roll since their new gate is right next to DL's operations.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 128):
I've noticed that HA has been using 26 off and on already for arrivals when B6 is still in the gate. Do they depart from there in the morning as well or do they tow back over?

The last time I was over by 25 and 26 there are no computers or any gate equipment expect a vacant NW podium, I would assume they just tow back over to 3... That is such a long tow.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:35 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 121):
Both, People of Tempe and thus they complain to the government.

Actually, it came out about 3 years ago that about 80% of the complaints registered were made by less than 10 people. The Tempe government used only the number of complaints in their press releases, hence the appearance of widespread resident opposition (which just isn't there).

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 131):
That is such a long tow.

Yeah, no fun sitting out on the concrete in the summer heat.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 124):
Do you think HA will continue with Servisair when they move to T-4

Gate 26 is at T-3. Even if it were to move to T-4, it's highly likely Servisair would handle it, as US has been moving away from ground handling with Mainline employees.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
93Sierra
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:01 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:02 pm

Beech Duke was the aircraft type down at KSEZ 3 fatal
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1886
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:05 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 132):
Actually, it came out about 3 years ago that about 80% of the complaints registered were made by less than 10 people. The Tempe government used only the number of complaints in their press releases, hence the appearance of widespread resident opposition (which just isn't there).

Last year in one of my classes at ASU the mayor talked about how ridiculous the whole thing was, essentially he made it sound like all the municipalities in the area are affected by the noise and all benefit from the revenues brought in by tourism. So there shouldn't be noise restrictions based on a few absurd complaints.

Any chance US brings back the N/S to CLE?
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4401
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 119):
Agreed, however, Is it the city of Tempe that's being a buttface or residents? Because only like 2 or 3% of tempe is in the final approach path of the airport. I live in that area and have NO issue whatsoever. (given of course I'm an aviation enthusiest) the loudest planes are the fighters, the AA MD80, and if the 744 takes off.

It could be a combination of both, but I think it is primarily the city that raises the most stink. Tempe somehow talked Phoenix into an agreement a few years ago to split operations 50/50 east flow/west flow. I can't understand why Phoenix signed it. Cities don't often dictate ATC operations in such a profound manner.

I think that your viewpoint on that gives you merit as a resident. I'm in a similar situation because I live under the approach pattern to the 30s at IWA. Since both airports existed before we moved here, as far as I'm concerned, neither of us have the right to bitch. Given how exponentially quieter engines are today compared with 20 or 30 years ago, I can't understand how anyone complains anyway.

About a year ago I saw something about noise complaints called in to PHX and IWA year over year. IWA had a few called in each year until about 2009 or 2010, then they had something like 11,000 called in. They found out that it was one guy who would call about six or seven times a day, and he accounted for all but about 20 calls. In the immortal words of Jeremy Clarkson, people like this "should be shot in front of their families."
 
aztrainer
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:17 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:07 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 132):
Actually, it came out about 3 years ago that about 80% of the complaints registered were made by less than 10 people. The Tempe government used only the number of complaints in their press releases, hence the appearance of widespread resident opposition (which just isn't there).

If I am remembering correctly, out of the 10 people one person made over 70% of the complaints.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 134):
Last year in one of my classes at ASU the mayor talked about how ridiculous the whole thing was, essentially he made it sound like all the municipalities in the area are affected by the noise and all benefit from the revenues brought in by tourism. So there shouldn't be noise restrictions based on a few absurd complaints.

It is a total joke about noise. As a person that grew up less than a mile from an airport, I only noticed the planes when the engines sounded different. I moved over by Luke AFB and after about three weeks a squadron of F-16's could of taken off and I would not hear it.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 132):
Gate 26 is at T-3. Even if it were to move to T-4, it's highly likely Servisair would handle it, as US has been moving away from ground handling with Mainline employees.

Woopsie, Sorry about the mistake.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 131):
HA will stick to servisair but if they are looking for a new vendor I think DL would fulfill the roll since their new gate is right next to DL's operations.

That is what I was wondering. Does DL have the ability to do containers on HA's 767 (or maybe even 330)? I know from time to time there are bigger DL planes into PHX, but it seems most of their planes are 737-800, 757, MD-90's.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6224
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
Actually there are a LOT of Chinese here, along with a plethora of Japanese companies. A rumor circulating is that once the economy picks up more jobs from Japan are going to relocate from LA to here because of the political climate of California.

What do you consider a lot? Phoenix's Chinese (and Asian overall) population is actually relatively small.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
dlramp4life
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:23 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 136):
Does DL have the ability to do containers on HA's 767 (or maybe even 330)? I know from time to time there are bigger DL planes into PHX, but it seems most of their planes are 737-800, 757, MD-90's.

They sure do! Behind servisair, DL has the most widebody equipment in PHX. They have container loaders and various transporters that handle LD2s/3s, LD4s/8s, and pallets. Also towbars.
 
AAIL86
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:00 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:11 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
Actually there are a LOT of Chinese here, along with a plethora of Japanese companies. A rumor circulating is that once the economy picks up more jobs from Japan are going to relocate from LA to here because of the political climate of California.

Rumor also has it - because of the business climate in Texas, a certain large airline will be relocating its headquarters   
" Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness ... Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ” - Mark Twain, 1869
 
User avatar
treebeard787
Posts: 742
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:03 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 136):
That is what I was wondering. Does DL have the ability to do containers on HA's 767 (or maybe even 330)? I know from time to time there are bigger DL planes into PHX, but it seems most of their planes are 737-800, 757, MD-90's.

As dlramp4life said, DL has everything needed to handle a widebody aircraft all the way up to the B747. Earlier this year DL sent in a B747-400 in place of two B757-300s that had mechanical problems. DL will also sometimes use a B763 on one of their ATL-PHX services. Their B777s and B764s have made appearances as well.


Delta Airlines B747-400 N676NW by KoryC757, on Flickr


Delta Airlines B747-400 N676NW by KoryC757, on Flickr


Delta Airlines B777-200ER N866DA by KoryC757, on Flickr


Delta Airlines B767-400ER N838MH by KoryC757, on Flickr
Allons-y!
 
aztrainer
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:17 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:23 am

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 140):
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 138):

Thanks, I should of known that..... That would of been a cranium-inversion......

What is the morning frequency of DL? I know HA 35 is a 8:00AM MST departure time, so how would that effect DL if they were to take over the service?
 
PHX787
Topic Author
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:49 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 137):
What do you consider a lot? Phoenix's Chinese (and Asian overall) population is actually relatively small.

I know there's well over 75,000. Easily. In the entire metro area.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
wn676
Posts: 1751
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:37 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 142):
I know there's well over 75,000. Easily. In the entire metro area.

There are just over 32,000 in all of Arizona. The total Asian population in the state is around 177,000.

[Edited 2012-07-28 00:38:41]
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
hz747300
Posts: 2419
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:52 am

Quoting wn676 (Reply 143):
There are just over 32,000 in all of Arizona. The total Asian population in the state is around 177,000.

I guess no matter how you state it, there is no communal tie to justify Asian service. I think the people of Arizona are content to one hop it just about anywhere to Asia, with relatively short flights to LAX or SFO.
Keep on truckin'...
 
PHX787
Topic Author
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:12 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 144):
I guess no matter how you state it, there is no communal tie to justify Asian service. I think the people of Arizona are content to one hop it just about anywhere to Asia, with relatively short flights to LAX or SFO.

What then justifies Asian service out of DEN?
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
hz747300
Posts: 2419
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:28 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 145):
What then justifies Asian service out of DEN?

Who knows, but safe to say it is not the large Japanese population in Colorado than warranted service between the two. It could be size, currently, DEN has ~12m more in passenger throughput than PHX. United is putting a flight between two Star hubs (ANA, and UA itself at the NRT end). In PHX's case, US has no Asia presence to leverage, and highly doubtful than any Asian airline could make it work. Using the Star presence of US as a motivator, that leaves ANA or Air China, and I don't think they'll be doing it any time soon. Also, PHX's proximity to major Asian hubs of LAX or SFO, probably hurts it too.

As an AZ native in HK, I was impressed how many people I saw from my HKG - LAX flight were also on the LAX - PHX flight, but I'm doubtful this justifies service.

If US/AA are OW even, I don't think that JAL or CX would launch PHX service, and AA would just continue to feed service via LAX to Asia, but technically the service between the two would become mainline with the PMUS Airbus's flying between the two.
Keep on truckin'...
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:11 pm

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 146):

There are 4 main factors that help support international flights, and the local ethnic population is only one factor. You also need to factor in the number of Asians visiting the state, the number of business passengers traveling between the regions, and the number of connecting passengers.

In theory, you could have very little local Asian population if there are enough business travelers, leisure travelers originating in Asia, and connecting passengers to support the flight.

I think flights to Phoenix suffer in part because there is not a lot of connection opportunities out of Phoenix compared to hubs like ATL, DFW, DTW. A lot of international flights contain 60% or more connecting passengers. Therefore, if you don't have good connectivity, it makes the route much more difficult to succeed.

However, the state of Arizona in general does ok with regard to international travelers. The state ranks number 12 in terms of the number of overseas (excluding Canada & Mexico) travelers to the state. In fact, it is not that far behind the state of Texas and is ahead of the states of Washington and Georgia.

The Japanese are the 4th highest spending overseas nationality in Arizona (Great Britain, Germany, and France are the top 3). If you combine Japan & China, the two combined rise to number 2.

I think of N/S flight to NRT is very plausible, but a lot more of the passengers would originate on the Asian side than on the U.S. side.

http://www.azot.gov/system/files/711...7.11.12%20to%20post.pdf?1342120837
 
4holer
Posts: 2776
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:47 am

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:14 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 147):
However, the state of Arizona in general does ok with regard to international travelers.

I'm a fairly frequent Grand Canyon hiker and as anyone who visits the Park can tell you, there are busloads of Japanese tourists roaming the Canyon rims. Unfortunately I also see them on the trails ill-equipped for such hikes (flipflops/dress shoes, no water) but that's another thread. It's safe to say that on any given overlook, foriegn visitors outnumber Americans, but I'm sure a good number of them arrive in Las Vegas.
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
PHX787
Topic Author
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 1

Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 147):
I think of N/S flight to NRT is very plausible, but a lot more of the passengers would originate on the Asian side than on the U.S. side.

I believe that's the case with BA 289. More Britons coming over than us going back. Or I may be mistaken
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos