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Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:04 am
by BestWestern
I understand from a reputable source that a new logo for China was approved recently. Has anyone seen it?

Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:12 am
by EricR
It is similar to the Alaska Airlines logo. However, instead of a picture of an Eskimo on the tail, there is a picture of Mao on the tail.

Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:14 am
by CZ346
Quoting EricR (Reply 1):
It is similar to the Alaska Airlines logo. However, instead of a picture of an Eskimo on the tail, there is a picture of Mao on the tail.

After spending a couple years in China, you just made my day.

Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:53 am
by jcs17
Quoting EricR (Reply 1):
It is similar to the Alaska Airlines logo. However, instead of a picture of an Eskimo on the tail, there is a picture of Mao on the tail.

I chuckled. Nice job.

Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:49 am
by gardermoen
This sounds like a bizarre concept.
Why have a logo just for one market? If they were going for a subsidiary brand, then fair enough.
The Lufthansa logo is used worlwide, and its business is built upon having this one image.
Not sure what the rationale for this is.

Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:13 am
by Plainplane
Sounds like maybe how KLM has its main branded aircraft and then others with "KLM Asia" without the crown?

Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:18 am
by ghifty
Quoting gardermoen (Reply 4):

This sounds like a bizarre concept.
Why have a logo just for one market? If they were going for a subsidiary brand, then fair enough.
The Lufthansa logo is used worlwide, and its business is built upon having this one image.
Not sure what the rationale for this is.

KLM Asia, Swissair Asia, Japan Asia Airways, British Asia Airways, etc.

If I remember correctly, it has something to do with China not wanting non-Chinese carriers flying in between Chinese airports and/or between Chinese airports and Taiwan (regarded, by China, as a "rogue province"). Therefore, the above airlines had to add the "Asia" monniker and remove their respective country's flags and national symbols. Doing so made airlines such as "KLM Asia" seem like entirely new airlines to the Chinese gov't, apparently. (something like that)

I thought that sanction ended.. apparently not?  

Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:31 am
by legacyins
Q: UA flies to both the Mainland and Taiwan, why are they not painting their aircraft with a special livery?

Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:51 am
by ClipperBerlin
Quoting legacyins (Reply 7):
If I remember correctly, it has something to do with China not wanting non-Chinese carriers flying in between Chinese airports and/or between Chinese airports and Taiwan (regarded, by China, as a "rogue province"). Therefore, the above airlines had to add the "Asia" monniker and remove their respective country's flags and national symbols. Doing so made airlines such as "KLM Asia" seem like entirely new airlines to the Chinese gov't, apparently. (something like that)

I thought that sanction ended.. apparently not?  

Exactly. ThatsĀ“s why in the past Lufthansa sent a 747-400 (D-ABTD) painted in Condors color scheme to Taiwan. But that was in den middle of the nineties. A new logo on the planes instead of the kranich does not make sense as mentioned before. Maybe just an add-on to the A380 named Peking?

ClipperBerlin

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:16 am
by warden145
Quoting legacyins (Reply 7):
Q: UA flies to both the Mainland and Taiwan, why are they not painting their aircraft with a special livery?

I don't know (and am curious as well), but I wonder if it may have something to do with flag carrier status? UA's never been an "official" flag carrier (and the U.S. has never had one, for that matter), whereas LH, KL, BA, SR, JL, etc are/were flag carriers for their respective nations.

With that said, like ghifty said, I thought that the PRC had stopped being so particular about this specific issue?

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:27 am
by kl911
Quoting ClipperBerlin (Reply 8):
Maybe just an add-on to the A380 named Peking?

Name another A380 'Taipei' and problem solved. ( Just make sure to send the right A380 to the right city   )

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:27 pm
by gatechae
Quoting warden145 (Reply 9):

Quoting legacyins (Reply 7):
Q: UA flies to both the Mainland and Taiwan, why are they not painting their aircraft with a special livery?

I don't know (and am curious as well), but I wonder if it may have something to do with flag carrier status? UA's never been an "official" flag carrier (and the U.S. has never had one, for that matter), whereas LH, KL, BA, SR, JL, etc are/were flag carriers for their respective nations.

With that said, like ghifty said, I thought that the PRC had stopped being so particular about this specific issue?

I think it probably has to do with the flag carrier issue as you said and the fact that none of the European nations (other than the Vatican IIRC) officially recognize the ROC diplomatically.

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:54 pm
by CZ346
Quoting legacyins (Reply 7):

Q: UA flies to both the Mainland and Taiwan, why are they not painting their aircraft with a special livery?

Because this is only Mainland China. A lot of people don't realize just HOW different Taiwan / Macau / Hong Kong truly are to mainland China. Flying - lets say HKG to SJZ (random I know) is a heck of a lot different than flying CAN to SJZ. Yes, HKG / Macau / Taiwan are still under the Chinese rule, but they are not Mainland and by no means are governed under the same rules, regulations or even political parties.

[Edited 2012-07-28 10:55:04]

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:56 pm
by YLWbased
Quoting EricR (Reply 1):

ROFL

YLWbased

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:06 pm
by WROORD
Quoting CZ346 (Reply 12):
Because this is only Mainland China. A lot of people don't realize just HOW different Taiwan / Macau / Hong Kong truly are to mainland China. Flying - lets say HKG to SJZ (random I know) is a heck of a lot different than flying CAN to SJZ. Yes, HKG / Macau / Taiwan are still under the Chinese rule, but they are not Mainland and by no means are governed under the same rules, regulations or even political parties.

Taiwan is definitely not under PRC rule, even though they would like to think that way. US Air Force has its base in Taiwan protecting its independence and possible PRC attack. HK and Macau both still have separate government, but its governor is now approved by Beijing.
The problem PRC has with Taiwan is that Taiwan still uses Republic of China (ROC) as its official name and PRC believes that they have the right to use chinese in its name. For that reson IOC has Taiwan under Chinese Taipei in the Olympics.

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:25 pm
by CZ346
Quoting WROORD (Reply 14):
Taiwan is definitely not under PRC rule, even though they would like to think that way. US Air Force has its base in Taiwan protecting its independence and possible PRC attack. HK and Macau both still have separate government, but its governor is now approved by Beijing.
The problem PRC has with Taiwan is that Taiwan still uses Republic of China (ROC) as its official name and PRC believes that they have the right to use chinese in its name. For that reson IOC has Taiwan under Chinese Taipei in the Olympics.

See what I get for watching the Chinese news for a year?

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:40 pm
by chootie
Quoting bestwestern (Thread starter):

I understand from a reputable source that a new logo for China was approved recently. Has anyone seen it?

...I would call the BS card here, and please let us know who this "reputable" source should be.

Must be a slow news day.......   

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:18 pm
by Rara
Quoting WROORD (Reply 14):
The problem PRC has with Taiwan is that Taiwan still uses Republic of China (ROC) as its official name and PRC believes that they have the right to use chinese in its name. For that reson IOC has Taiwan under Chinese Taipei in the Olympics.

Hm, small correction, the Mainland is actually quite happy with the name Republic of China, even though they dispute it - at least the term "China" is still in there. It's Taiwan as a country name that they get really angry about. Anything to suggest Taiwan is not a part of China anymore gets their blood boiling.   Hence the compromise Chinese Taipei.

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:26 pm
by ghifty
Quoting WROORD (Reply 14):
For that reson IOC has Taiwan under Chinese Taipei in the Olympics.

Sort of like why Puerto Rico has it's own Olympic team? Makes sense.

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:42 pm
by Tugger
Quoting ghifty (Reply 18):
Quoting WROORD (Reply 14):
For that reson IOC has Taiwan under Chinese Taipei in the Olympics.

Sort of like why Puerto Rico has it's own Olympic team? Makes sense.

Except Puerto Rico is completely FREE to do as it wishes and could change it status with the USA anytime it wants. Taiwan, not so much. (Many people wonder what would actually happen if they did - and no there is not a simple answer to that.)

Tugg

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:20 am
by WROORD
Quoting Rara (Reply 17):
Hm, small correction, the Mainland is actually quite happy with the name Republic of China, even though they dispute it - at least the term "China" is still in there. It's Taiwan as a country name that they get really angry about. Anything to suggest Taiwan is not a part of China anymore gets their blood boiling.

True - even though it means something different to each side (PRC and Taiwan).

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:22 am
by bohica
Quoting legacyins (Reply 7):
Q: UA flies to both the Mainland and Taiwan, why are they not painting their aircraft with a special livery?

I may not be 100% correct but I believe that China does not want non-Chinese airlines overflying it's airspace enroute to Taiwan if that airline also serves China. Therefore an airline like KLM Asia is considered a separate airline that flies to Taiwan while KLM serves China. United does not overfly Chinese airspace to/from Taiwan, therefore it does not need a separate subfleet.

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:49 am
by legacyins
Quoting CZ346 (Reply 12):
Because this is only Mainland China. A lot of people don't realize just HOW different Taiwan / Macau / Hong Kong truly are to mainland China.

My friend, I am quite familiar with China as I currently live in Beijing. Your answer does not really answer my question. Thank you though.

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:06 am
by spiritair97
Quoting warden145 (Reply 9):

I thought AA was technically the USA's flag-carrier? I assume I'm wrong but I always thought they were.

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:07 am
by BestWestern
Quoting chootie (Reply 16):

...I would call the BS card here,

Im on this site for 12 years. I have a RR of 60. This is not BS.

This is not a friend told a friend who told me rumour.

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:32 am
by trex8
Quoting WROORD (Reply 14):
US Air Force has its base in Taiwan protecting its independence and possible PRC attack.

There hasn't been a US military presence in Taiwan since the 70s. Active duty US military personnel are not usually even allowed to go to Taiwan in any official capacity except in unusual circumstances because of the farce of the US not recognizing Taiwan as a 'nation" since we swapped diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing in 79. US "diplomats" at the American Institute in Taiwan- the pseudo US embassy- are on leave of absence from the US state department during their Taiwan tour. US military sales to Taiwan (who are the 2nd to 4th largest US weapons customer depending on which decade you are looking at) are made to the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representatives Office in Washington DC (the pseudo Taiwan embassy) , not the ROC government. Taiwan is also the 2nd largest US agricultural export market outside NAFTA and about the 4th largest holder of US treasury securities but we don't give them the time of the day as they don't exist "officially" anyway!


There was a thread on this whole issue of branding of airlines flying to China and Taiwan just this year. I don't seem to be able to find it now for some weird reason. In brief, from someone whose father was actually involved in some of the diplomatic brouha at the time, the story runs along these lines. When Tokyo switched recognition of the "real " China to Beijing from Taipei, the PRC refused to allow JL to fly to mainland China unless they stopped flying to Taiwan. (They also didn't want PRC and ROC flagged planes at the same airport which is why CI was operating international flights to Haneda for years after all other international flights were moved to Narita) . JL set up Japan Asia to fly to Taiwan. After that Beijing insisted other nations followed this pattern in later years as air travel opened up to China. Most of the Euro nations agreed. The US and several SE Asian nations (Singapore, Thailand, Philippines amongst others) told Beijing to get lost and suffered few consequences but the Japanese, EU, Australians caved to PRC pressure. The Koreans caved to Beijings demands so much and upset Taipei so badly that there were no flights by Taiwanese and Korean airlines between SEL and TPE for years, but you could fly that route on CX and I think SQ and a few others but not by any airline from the two countries you were traveling between!!

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:01 am
by CZ346
Quoting legacyins (Reply 22):
My friend, I am quite familiar with China as I currently live in Beijing. Your answer does not really answer my question. Thank you though.

And I'm in CAN - my only point with it was that Taiwan -> Mainland routes are in no way shape or form the same as flights within the mainland because the flight are not intra-China routes. And I apologize for causing any offense, but especially for a westerner living within China you should understand how common it is for westerners to have misinformation regarding the country...

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:28 am
by nws2002
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 23):
I thought AA was technically the USA's flag-carrier? I assume I'm wrong but I always thought they were.

Most other countries have a designated carrier that is the national carrier of the country it represents. Sometimes they are state-owned, others are privately-held.

The US does not have a single "flag carrier" like these other countries do. In the US every airline, with some minor exceptions for supplemental carriers, that flies outside of the 48 states is considered a flag carrier. Even F9 and B6 are considered a flag carrier because they have regularly scheduled international flights.

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:28 am
by BestWestern
Quoting CZ346 (Reply 26):
And I'm in CAN - my only point with it was that Taiwan -> Mainland routes are in no way shape or form the same as flights within the mainland because the flight are not intra-China routes

Correct, They depart from the " International, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan" section of the airport, and full Immigration and Customs formalities are required.

Quoting CZ346 (Reply 12):
HKG / Macau / Taiwan are still under the Chinese rule, but they are not Mainland and by no means are governed under the same rules, regulations or even political parties.

One country, two systems is very much the case for China and the 'Special Administrative Regions' of HKG and Macau.

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:55 am
by legacyins
Quoting CZ346 (Reply 26):
CZ346

Nice, but my question is regarding why UA does not paint their aircraft in a special livery compared to the OP stating that LH is considering(?) a new logo for the China/Taiwan flights.

No misconception here about China.

Update: having done a little research and speaking to a UA captain, it appears it has to due with national carriers and their actions as not to "offend" the PRC. I guess it is plausible. Thanks ghifty

[Edited 2012-07-28 23:59:45]

[Edited 2012-07-29 00:01:45]

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:10 am
by BestWestern
Quoting legacyins (Reply 29):
OP stating that LH is considering(?) a new logo for the China/Taiwan flights.

Hey - Read the OP. I never mentioned Taiwan...

Quoting bestwestern (Thread starter):
I understand from a reputable source that a new logo for China was approved recently. Has anyone seen it?

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:52 am
by legacyins
Quoting bestwestern (Reply 30):
Quoting legacyins (Reply 29):
OP stating that LH is considering(?) a new logo for the China/Taiwan flights.

Hey - Read the OP. I never mentioned Taiwan...

Quoting bestwestern (Thread starter):
I understand from a reputable source that a new logo for China was approved recently. Has anyone seen it?



Yes sir. You are correct. I did not mean to mistate you and I should listen and pay attention more carefully in the future.

I should have said, as the direction of the discussion is going toward why LH is possibly changing their livery for their China flights is because of the possible friction between The Peoples Republic of Cina and the Republic of China.

Have a pleasant day.

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:01 am
by Semaex

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:14 am
by BestWestern
Maybe, its something like this....


RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:06 pm
by Semaex
Quoting bestwestern (Reply 33):

I'm not sure in what way you would change a Crane in order to make it look more chinese, but I like the thought of trying it out!

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:29 pm
by BestWestern
Quoting Semaex (Reply 34):
I'm not sure in what way you would change a Crane in order to make it look more chinese, but I like the thought of trying it out!

None of the coca-cola logos above changes the logo - just the text.

Like this



Or


RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:34 pm
by N328KF
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 23):
I thought AA was technically the USA's flag-carrier? I assume I'm wrong but I always thought they were.

The US has never had an official one,but Pan Am was the de facto flag carrier from the 20s to the 40s, and possibly the 50s. After that, it was wide open.

RE: Rumor: New Lufthansa Logo For China?

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:17 am
by spiritair97
Quoting N328KF (Reply 36):

This is going to seem like a stupid question, but what are the criteria for being an "official" flag carrier? Also, what benefits are there?