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ScottishDavie
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:53 pm

Quoting AmericanAirFan (Reply 39):
If he had previously flown countless times, his fear is completely irrational, and it's not like he has never flown before.

Irrational doesn't mean it isn't real to him. A few years ago my wife and I were flying NCL-SVG, a hop of well under an hour. Just before the doors closed we were joined in the aisle seat by a Swedish woman in her thirties who was white faced and shaking so badly she could hardly stow her hand luggage. When she sat down I asked her if she was OK. She turned out to be a former SAS stewardess who, like the person mentioned in another post, suddenly developed an overwhelming fear of flying and had to give up her job. She now lived in London but had to go to Sweden for the funeral of a close relative. instead of flying LHR-ARN in a couple of hours she had taken the train to NCL, got on the shortest flight from the UK to Scandinavia and was going to travel from Stavanger to Stockholm by a series of trains. Even so she nearly hadn't boarded and despite her efforts to suppress it she was trembling so violently I could feel it through my seat. Eventually my wife and I persuaded her to sit between us and we literally held her hands throughout the flight. I've never seen anybody so completely overcome by fear and to dismiss this on the basis that "it's not like she has never flown before" is, with respect, crass and unhelpful.
 
AFGMEL
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:01 am

I have a minor in psychology so I am not entirely flippant about anxiety disorders. Having said that, I have phobias of needles in general as well as dentists in particular you can imagine. However, being a child of the sixties means that I still got my shots and still went to the dentist. Unlike recent generations, it did not occur to you that you had a choice when there were unpleasant situations to face. To this day I struggle, but succeed.

I would like more information as to how this kid was brought up and I do - maybe unfairly - wonder if all this attention is a huge reward for what started as a minor dummy spit and has now blown up into a major issue which has passed the point of no return.
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DocLightning
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:17 am

Quoting AFGMEL (Reply 51):
I have a minor in psychology so I am not entirely flippant about anxiety disorders. Having said that, I have phobias of needles in general as well as dentists in particular you can imagine. However, being a child of the sixties means that I still got my shots and still went to the dentist. Unlike recent generations, it did not occur to you that you had a choice when there were unpleasant situations to face. To this day I struggle, but succeed.

Agreed. Sometimes, you just have to man up. Even when you're 11. That said, if the kid starts screaming and carrying on in the airport, I doubt he'll make it to the plane before someone asks him to leave.
-Doc Lightning-

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DeltaMD90
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:47 am

If I was the parent, I'd feel for the kid, but I can guarantee you we'd be on that plane before it took off...
 
Ps76
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:33 am

Hi!

As someone who has suffered a lot from panic attacks and anxiety I really feel for this kid. For those saying he should just "man up" and his parents should give him a beating really don't know anything as they have never lived with this. Yes he would get home by air but those few hours would be some of the most horrific imaginable. Some of my travel stories include:

When I was in Manchester for a day trip from London I suffered an episode while in the airport to come back. I was convinced I was about to have a heart attack and walked around the terminal with my hand on my chest like a madman just going round and round for half an hour. I was totally convinced if I got on the plane I would go into cardiac arrest. Anyway I made it to the train station and got a train back to London. For the 2 and a half hour train ride I sat in the doorway (it was packed) staring at the floor petrified. I got to Euston station and could barely walk as I felt so out of my body (depersonalisation is a common experience with anxiety). I tried to go into the underground but there was no way. I walked outside and asked for a bus to Paddington to get the Heathrow Express. I could barely talk. Somehow I made it to the bus stop and then Paddington and then Heathrow. I had never for a second stopped worrying I was about to die since Manchester. In these states your real life becomes exactly like a dream and not reality and it is scary as hell. Words you hear you barely comprehend and actions you take don't feel like your own. I drove home still petrified and could barely even speak a word to my parents and just went to bed and slept. The next morning I was ok.

When in Madeira with my aunt I had been going through some personal issues and been feeling a little strange. After a week something snapped. My reality became very weird and it was scary as hell. My main feeling was to get off the island and get home. We called a doctor right then (it was night) and they gave me some medication for it but I was too scared to take it. The next day we came home and I was terrified of the flying. I spent the whole time in an isle seat trembling staring at the same page of the in-flight magazine. Nothing anyone would have said to me would have made me experience that any better.

I have many other experiences with anxiety and stuff which include calling ambulances at 3am in Switzerland and checking myself into hospitals and stuff. For me though Valium (diazepam) does help a lot. The first time I took it I was petrified it was going to give me a heart attack but then the doctor explained nicely and convinced me and I took it and felt a lot better. For a few years I took it wherever I went and it helped me a lot just knowing I had something even if I didn't use it. However for this kid it appears medication didn't help (and I would be surprised if they didn't have Valium or something like it in the UAE).

It is not a nice place to be. I have been mugged and stabbed and undergone brain surgery but none of it has been even 1 percent as scary as the two events I described above. Being a nervous flyer is one thing but when your body "locks down" just getting to the airport it is more like a mental illness.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 3):
The UAE is very strict when it comes to drugs and many over the counter medicines in other countries can only be carried if you have a valid prescription.

It is ironic then that my aunt who used to work at the UAE embassy in London used to use an embassy contact pharmacy to get us whatever prescription drugs we wanted without a prescription! I'm sure we've bought Valium from them a few times!

Sorry for the long post.

Many thanks.

Pierre

[Edited 2012-08-01 18:46:22]
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:07 am

Pierre:

As you have self identified, you know you have this anxiety disability and have found ways to deal with it. Whenever anything prevents you from carrying on without such fears it is disabling. Most people do not experience disability to the degree that you do. I am not trying to lessen your problem I have read that this kind of anxiety exists for many people.

As I said in my earlier post, the kid in this story may have had problems as Pierre described. But without being there in person to witness and actually question the kid, we can only hypothesize what actually happened with him. In the meantime the parents are probably going through money like water over this.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
Ps76
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:04 am

Hi!

Quoting type-rated (Reply 55):
Pierre:

As you have self identified, you know you have this anxiety disability and have found ways to deal with it. Whenever anything prevents you from carrying on without such fears it is disabling. Most people do not experience disability to the degree that you do. I am not trying to lessen your problem I have read that this kind of anxiety exists for many people.

As I said in my earlier post, the kid in this story may have had problems as Pierre described. But without being there in person to witness and actually question the kid, we can only hypothesize what actually happened with him. In the meantime the parents are probably going through money like water over this.

Thanks. Yes I also believe many people suffer from the same kinda thing as me but you rarely meet them though because they tend to be locked up in their houses! It's not all bad though, I've had many times in my life when I was fine. I'm forever grateful that I'm not deperate for money or need a roof over my head because then I'd not only be crazy but crazy and homeless which many people are. Plus I'm not in a psychiatric ward which I was in for a short time for something else. My brother suffers from schizophrenia (he's much better now than before) and spent quite a while in them and loved them. To me it was like hell and absolutely nothing like the place in Rain Man! You are confined to a bedroom and a small coridoor and a TV room. You are physically locked in there and can't go out for days. Plus you are surrounded by more crazy people. The only break I had was to go out and walk around this small barbed wire yard with the smokers (I didn't smoke). When I would see an airliner pass overhead it was like heaven!

Anyway back to this guy he is obviously not like me as no two people are the same. However travelling by land and sea from the UAE to the UK is no picnic and certainly not cheap and easy. If I was him (although maybe not at age 11) I would ask them to inject me with something to make me completely unconscious for the whole trip (if there is something like that).

Many thanks.

Pierre

[Edited 2012-08-02 01:08:51]
 
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InsideMan
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:18 am

Comeon guys, we're talking about ONE flight.
Get him to board the plane, no matter how and then deal with his anxiety (if still needed) at home.
 
Ps76
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:44 am

Hi!

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 57):
Comeon guys, we're talking about ONE flight.

Yes for most normal people like yourself it is no big deal but to some people it is an extremely big deal. If you do a search on flight anxiety forums and stuff you will find many many people who simply will not fly. They are terrified of it. Some people go their whole lives without flying simply because they are too scared. They miss out on so much for essentially nothing. My brother who is schizophrenic refuses to get on a plane because he thinks he will vibe the pilots and they will crash! He wants me to take the bus for 2 days to Berlin instead of flying 1.30hr! My point is everyone sees the world through his or her own eyes and some people are very different from the norm. Many many people absolutely refuse to go on a subway. The difference is most people don't get themselves stuck half way around the World. I'll say it's up to the parents and him what to do. If they have the money and would rather go for the land/sea option that's up to them. Nowone is better or worse in this World we're just different. It could even be fun and they'd get to see some cool places. Life is short so it's best to try and enjoy it while we're here.

Many thanks.

Pierre
 
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eurowings
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:08 am

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 58):
If you do a search on flight anxiety forums and stuff you will find many many people who simply will not fly. They are terrified of it. Some people go their whole lives without flying simply because they are too scared

In that case, I think the underlying cause(s) of the anxiety has to be discovered, if the person can establish it. When I was younger, up to about age 11, I loved aircraft but I was always a little bit anxious before each flight. It was very mild anxiety, so I never really showed it.

It was in the back of my mind that "we could crash", but after I while I thought a lot about it and came to the conclusion that "we could crash on any form of transport - I know of many car accidents, plus occasional bus and train crashes". However, you can't be anxious about getting in a car/on a bus otherwise you'd probably never travel anywhere...

That was my thinking anyway and still is. However, I do realise that loss of personal control, claustrophobia e.t.c play a large role in some people's anxiety.
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
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InsideMan
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:15 am

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 58):
Yes for most normal people like yourself it is no big deal but to some people it is an extremely big deal. If you do a search on flight anxiety forums and stuff you will find many many people who simply will not fly. They are terrified of it. Some people go their whole lives without flying simply because they are too scared

The difference is, the boy flew since infancy....

And the situation as it is, is just as unbearable. His mom home, his dad with him out of work, living in a hotel(?), going by sea and car/bus through Saudi-Arabia or Iran is not a piece of cake either..... Apart from all the cost, this is a pretty damn situation to be in.

So, he will have 5 horrible hours, but afterwards he's home with his mom and his friends and then you have time
to deal with it.......
 
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InsideMan
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:16 pm

here are some more details about this.
Contrary to the first article NO sudden onset of the symptoms.
http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-n...leaves-him-stranded-in-the-capital
 
Ps76
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:44 pm

Hi!

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 61):

here are some more details about this.
Contrary to the first article NO sudden onset of the symptoms.

To be fair I don't think the article even talks about the details of what happened in his 4 failed attempts in his latest trip. It does mention that he has quite a history of this problem in recent years. He made a big mistake taking his last flight and now has got himeslf and his family in a mess but people do make mistakes. If I was his Dad I would drive him home or more likely try and get a ride/some rides with freight drivers who do drive from Europe to the Middle East I believe. Flying is not for everyone and if I was in his position in my current mindset these days I would definitely take the roads. Facing your fears works for some people but not others. I have done zip wires and paragliding and hanggliding and bunjee jumping and flown Cessnas and gliders. All I did was put myself through a whole lot of fear for years for nothing. I never felt euphoria or alive or like I was living in the moment or anything. Just fear and then relief when it was over. And none of it cured a thing. I'm more scared than ever! He may be different and I really do hope he gets a change of mind and gets on that plane and enjoys it. Many people are terrified before and then when they do it realise it is not so bad at all.

I agree it is a bad situation. I would certainly not like to be in it.

Many thanks.

Pierre
 
art
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:19 am

With regard to passengers who experience acute anxiety before boarding and display symptoms of this, what is the policy of airlines about allowing such passengers on board? I imagine that a proportion of such passengers become a problem if they suffer panic attacks during the flight requiring a response from crew members.

In the article from The National post 61 it says:

"Joe got through check-in but when we reached the departure gates he flipped and was very distressed. Airline staff refused to allow him to board, which was understandable..."
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:13 am

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Must be horrible to have something like this after years of being ok . Anyone ever experienced this ?

I have unfortunately gone through this exact scenario almost as the kid did, but domestically. I was a young teenager traveling by myself for my birthday to visit family and I made the first flight just fine and then while in the airport just minding my own business eating a snack, I all of a sudden was freaking out. It was 10 min before boarding and I was in the corner of seating area at the gate in a ball shaking like crazy. I couldn't get on the plane and the fine people of Delta sat next to me to try to calm me down. After a bit their supervisor came over and helped me to the front of the airport while they helped me get my things, even gave me a voucher for a meal and ticket fare to help offset my trip I would not be taking, and arranged an Amtrak ticket for me to continue on. I had never been so embarrassed before in my life but so grateful for the staff and that is why I travel Delta all the time (outside of Alaska for local flights). Now I always take a xantax just to make sure this never happens again sense that day. I take 1 the night before and 1 again in the morning before the flights.
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jimbobjoe
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:33 pm

Quoting ChinaClipper40 (Reply 38):
As a former U.S. Air Force medical officer,

I enjoyed your narrative. Thank you.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:40 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 48):
Many of the people on a.net were also raised during the 1950's/60's where this "I want to be my child's friend" type of parenting was not yet used. Most parents of that era were of the "Do what I say or else!" or "You'll do as I say because I said so!". if you resisted you were probably smacked pretty good.
Later it has been found that kids that were raised in this type of environment do the same to their kids. It all goes downhill from generation to generation until somebody realizes that whacking your kid is just no longer acceptable.

I have to agree with what you said. 11 years old is to young to be calling the shots. Get a traveling nurse, give him a shot and load him on the plane and head home. Like my parents would say, my way or the highway.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
brilondon
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:05 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 66):
I have to agree with what you said. 11 years old is to young to be calling the shots. Get a traveling nurse, give him a shot and load him on the plane and head home. Like my parents would say, my way or the highway.

This may not be a solution to the problem as Narcotics should never be administered in these situations. You don't know how the child will react to the drugs or how long it will be effective.

The airline will not allow this to happen. You can't predict how long the drugs will be effective and he needs to be relaxed and not agitated by the surroundings.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
tennis69
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:26 am

Quoting brilondon (Reply 34):
So your parents are bullies and would have assaulted you if they thought it would cure you of a phobia?

No my parents were not bullies, they were the BOSS of me, as it should be.
 
brilondon
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:28 pm

Quoting tennis69 (Reply 68):
No my parents were not bullies, they were the BOSS of me, as it should be.

Yes they are if they use fear and intimidation as a way of trying to gain your respect.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
wukka
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:18 pm

This kid is a piece of work. What happens when he is being driven home and develops a phobia of long tunnels? Now you have the same kid stranded in France. Put him on a boat to get him across the channel, right? Now he can't see water without freaking out. Then you put him back in a car, and he's terrified of a crash. Ad nauseum.

I hate to say it, but benzo this kid up, and get him the hell "home" ASAP where he can be professionally dealt with on his own turf.

Letting this child be in control of his family's life right now is far more detrimental long-term than him pooping his pants on the way home. Chartering a plane and getting proper medical staff to monitor his status, if they have to, would ultimately be pound wise, and more advantageous for this kid, as well as more cost-effective for the parents in the long run.

Hell, this kid has probably damn near bankrupt his parents, as they have already forfeited their jobs, per the articles, and have been trying to support this nonsense for a substantial amount of time.

Get this kid home, and psych eval him. Period. Wasting time with this getting visas and driving / sailing is doing nothing for this mess of a child. He needs help, and he needs to be "home" to accomplish this.

Let him whine and cry and "lock up". Don't beat him (although my family would have made me get on that flight one way or another). Dose this kid. Here's some haloperidol. Once you're home, you can start the healing process.
We can agree to disagree.
 
art
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting wukka (Reply 70):
I hate to say it, but benzo this kid up, and get him the hell "home" ASAP where he can be professionally dealt with on his own turf.

Drugging the person once it became clear that he could not master his fear of flying (say the second time he failed to board) would seem to have been the practical solution. Presumably he and his family member(s) cannot stay where they are indefinitely.

I do not suffer from any overpowering phobia but I can imagine that if you do it can become almost impossible to do what you need to do, however devastating that is for yourself or for others.
 
tennis69
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:10 am

Quoting brilondon (Reply 69):
Yes they are if they use fear and intimidation as a way of trying to gain your respect




Respect has nothing to do with parenting. An 11 year old should obey his parents without questioning or acting out on their instructions as long as they are not telling him to do something immoral or illegal.

That is how I was raised and I am a better person for it as an adult.
 
ChinaClipper40
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:05 pm

Quoting wukka (Reply 70):
I hate to say it, but benzo this kid up
Quoting wukka (Reply 70):
Dose this kid. Here's some haloperidol

Why do I need to repeat myself? ALL benzodiazepines and ALL neuroleptics (including haloperidol) are specifically restricted by the UAE's list of banned/restricted medications and drugs. The importation of a single Valium tablet subjects one to criminal penalties that include prison time and deportation. The UAE does make an exception for visitors, but the exception is hellishly difficult (if not impossible) to comply with. For example, for visitors from the United States, the Drug Control Department of the UAE Ministry of health permits personal import of a strictly limited supply of such items, BUT: 1) travelers carrying prescription medications must have the prescription issued by a licensed U.S. physician (easy); 2) the medication must be carried in the original labeled pharmacy vial (easy); 3) the patient must carry a detailed medical report justifying the medical need for the medication (not so easy); 4) the physician must attest to the prescription in front of a notary public (not so easy); 5) the notarization must be authenticated by the Secretary of State of one’s U.S. state of residence (very difficult; can you imagine the Secretary of State of even a small state like Connecticut taking time out of her busy official schedule to sign such an authentication?); and 6) the notarization must be authenticated by the Secretary of State of the U.S. Government in Washington, D.C. (damned near impossible; can you imagine Secretary Clinton taking time out of her busy official schedule to sign such an authentication?). Furthermore, even with all that paperwork, UAE customs officers can and do confiscate medications at point of entry into the UAE. Bottom line? The UAE's policy on importation of medications (even ones that are so safe as to be routinely non-prescription in Europe and North America, i.e., over-the-counter) is medically indefensible to the point of being psychotic. Can one legally obtain benzodiazepines or neuroleptics within the UAE? Yes. But only by establishing a doctor-patient relationship with a licensed UAE physician or hospital. Could this lad be safely and legally medicated to the point of being able to tolerate an airplane ride back to the UK? Yes. But it would need the compliance of a UAE physician, the medication would need to be dispensed by one of the large UAE pharmacies (only the large registered pharmacies are permitted to stock benzodiazepines and neuroleptics), and the lad should probably be accompanied on the plane ride by a physician or registered nurse (for safety, given the degree of sedation that would be necessary in the absence of successful desensitization of the phobia). The UAE does NOT make such things easy, even when medically justified. I have personal experience with the UAE's dysfunctional approach to modern medicine. About a year ago, I was invited to be a guest speaker in the UAE at an international medications development research conference (ironic, eh?). I was forced to decline because several medications I take routinely are on the banned list. And I am NOT talking about drugs such as cocaine or cannabis. I am talking about medications routinely used throughout Europe and North America for commonplace ailments. Especially in people my age. And especially in people who have recently had surgery (in my case, spinal surgery).
 
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OA260
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:09 pm

Seems they now have a way home if all goes well. :

Stranded schoolboy going home in style on epic roadtrip from UAE

DUBAI // Fear-of-flying schoolboy Joe Thompson could be heading home in style in a convoy of Volkswagens by next week following a meeting between his father and officials from the car giant.

Joe, 11, who is from the UK, has been stranded in the UAE for more than a month after developing an acute aversion to flying.

The two sides discussed the situation in Dubai yesterday, and as Joe's father, Tony, made his way home to Al Ain afterwards he said: "We had a good meeting. It'll probably take them a couple of days before they come up with the final route. They've got quite a lot of detail to do - they've got to sort out the drivers, the servicing and all that sort of thing. Logistically they want it to work."

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-n...in-style-on-epic-roadtrip-from-uae
 
KBUF
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:28 am

All he needs is a line of people with miscellaneous objects to tell him "calm down, get a hold of yourself!": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvPugcb7QGE  
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Boy 11 Stranded In UAE Due To Sudden Flying Fear.

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:29 am

Get someone to talk to the kid about how safe Aviation is in comparision to road.Ideally if someone can keep the boy calm by talking and distracting from the topic.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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