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kl911
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Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:29 pm

This is to show all Ryanair bashers here on A.net that Ryanair continues to be the favorite lowcost airline in Europe.
Mind you, this is a story where in July 2012 8,72 million people flew with Ryanair because they wanted to, not because they are forced.  

Again, I dont work for/with them, but i'm a passenger twho is extremely sattisfied with the FR product, no time consuming frills, just arrive at the gate , board and fly.For close to nothing.


Quote:

Ryanair Friday said it sold more seats on its aircraft in July than it has sold before in a single month, underlining the strength of the budget carrier's lower-cost business model as European flag carriers struggle with rising fuel costs and the effects of the economic downturn.

Ryanair, Europe's biggest discount carrier by passenger numbers, said it carried a record 8.72 million passengers in July, up 8% from 8.08 million in July 2011. For the year to date, Ryanair carried 77.7 million passengers, up 2.4% from the same period last year.

Ryanair and low-cost rival EasyJet continue to benefit from increasingly budget-conscious travelers down-trading to discount carriers from flag carriers which were finding it more difficult to get passengers at higher fares, Mr. Hyde said.


Full article: ( Somehow I cant get the link here, but its on www.wsj.com )

[Edited 2012-08-03 11:01:09]
 
EMAman
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:58 pm

I dont entirely agree with this post

FR have indeed carried all of these pax, but it is becoming increasingly the case that they have stifled out the competition and that little alternative exists on some routes

I disagree with 'close to nothing' - yes sometimes - but FR can also be extremely expensive, its called strategic pricing

I woud also disagree in part with 'just arrive at the gate, board and fly' - FR are known for having one of the most disorganised boarding procedures, and at many airports across europe the FR boarding gate is an absolute chaotic melee of people trying to get on first

Good business generally on the part of FR, but this is generally not good for the consumer

I too use FR from time to time and dont hate them and dont bash them to death like some, but feel that the OP, as do many posts, would benefit from taking a two-sided approach
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting EMAman (Reply 1):
I too use FR from time to time and dont hate them and dont bash them to death like some, but feel that the OP, as do many posts, would benefit from taking a two-sided approach
Quoting EMAman (Reply 1):
FR are known for having one of the most disorganised boarding procedures, and at many airports across europe the FR boarding gate is an absolute chaotic melee of people trying to get on first

Well, it might be me, but at the airports i use a lot, BUD MAD BGY GRQ EIN and ACE the only disorganisation i saw was at MAD, but really at every gate for every airline. Boarding a KLM flight AMS - BUD which i sometime take too the boarding is way more chaotic and slower because everybody wants to board at the same time, with seatnumbers all mixed up, and ofcourse only boarding from the front.

Ofcourse FR can do it different or better, but there is a price attached. Which I personally dont want to pay and not need.

Regarding prices, yes, Ryanair can be expensive, but thats the whole fun of planning trips, follow prices, dates and routes daily till I find a nice cheap destination to spend a week or weekend.
 
JU068
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:50 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
Regarding prices, yes, Ryanair can be expensive, but thats the whole fun of planning trips, follow prices, dates and routes daily till I find a nice cheap destination to spend a week or weekend.

That applies for almost every airline out there, not only for Ryanair. For example I can fly from Larnaca to Thessaloniki for 84 Euros if I ''follow prices, dates and routes''. So your argument is not really valid.
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:00 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 3):
That applies for almost every airline out there, not only for Ryanair. For example I can fly from Larnaca to Thessaloniki for 84 Euros if I ''follow prices, dates and routes''. So your argument is not really valid.

Why not? FR is a leisure - holiday airline. So destinations are flexible as dates often as well.
 
JU068
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:11 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 4):

My point is that if you are flexible with dates and destinations then you can find cheap flights on any airline, not just Ryanair.
 
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par13del
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting EMAman (Reply 1):
FR have indeed carried all of these pax, but it is becoming increasingly the case that they have stifled out the competition and that little alternative exists on some routes

Somewhat of a surprize since most politicians and regulators across the EU have a history of "getting on" FR, wonder how the were able to run the competition off without breaking any laws / rules....
 
EMAman
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:10 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 6):
wonder how the were able to run the competition off without breaking any laws / rules....

FR and MOL have never been interested in rules

It is fair to say that there arent always many options other than FR, not in every case, but in some
 
EMAman
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 5):

My point is that if you are flexible with dates and destinations then you can find cheap flights on any airline, not just Ryanair.

Yes exxactly. I wasnt saying that FR are never cheap, you can get bargains, but you can on all airlines.
 
tonyban
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:23 pm

Did they also hit a record of trying to flog smokeless cigarettes, lottery tickets, bus passes, magazines, newspapers, perfumes and (enter your item here).
What about the silly prerecorded 'Another on-time flight' announcement they play at each landing. Must be some record there too....
 
xjramper
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:29 pm

Added capacity generally means bigger numbers. Just because it's the cheapest, and is how most people buy, doesn't mean it's a favourite among passengers. It means people needed to move from point a to point b at the cheapest available rate and it just happened to be FR.
Look ma' no hands!
 
Senchingo
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:32 pm

Let the bashing begin....  

Back to topic: Congrats to FR. It is really amazing to me how well the business strategies of both, Ryan Air and Easy Jet seem to work out.
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:21 pm

I have to travel from Marrakesh to my brother's wedding in Cyprus this September. The return trip, outbound via Seville and Milan and back via Thessaloniki and Rome cost me 200€ (100€ each way) with Ryanair. Just to show what the competition is offering - TAP via Lisbon and Athens is 800€ and BA from Casablanca via LHR is 1200€ - ridiculous!!! What the hell are these companies thinking pricing at these levels. It looks like they've given up, that they don't even want to try to offer a decent fare that someone might actually buy. Are they surpised when people choose instead to fly with Ryanair? Sure, I'd prefer to have an assigned seat, a nice sandwhich and some tea or coffee, but it's not worth an extra 600-1000€. Of course, with RY the thing to watch out for is the extra fees - if I checked in one bag, I would pay 20€ x 6 = 120€ more.
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:27 pm

Actually, I just checked BA's website and it costs 1800€ return for Marrakesh - Paphos in September (compared to under 200€ on Ryanair), and I could probably make the round trip for under 100€ if I needed to go in October via Milan / Rome. So of course I love Ryanair (for their prices, not their service). I'd rather fly BA and have a nice coffee and a more relaxing flight, but 1800€ - what's wrong with them????
 
blueflyer
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting kl911 (Thread starter):
Ryanair Friday said it sold more seats on its aircraft in July than it has sold before in a single month, underlining the strength of the budget carrier's lower-cost business model as European flag carriers struggle with rising fuel costs and the effects of the economic downturn.

Ryanair doesn't have a low-cost business model, it has a "take public money" business model. Its profits are less than the sum total of tax-breaks and subsidies it receives from airports and local governments to land at their doorstop.

No subsidies = no profit

Between the recession and traffic numbers not near what Ryanair promised, the number of airports willing to pay is declining, so I'd say Ryanair's ingenuous business model has a limited shelf life.
 
larspl
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:49 am

Dear KL911

Quoting kl911 (Thread starter):
Again, I dont work for/with them, but i'm a passenger twho is extremely sattisfied with the FR product, no time consuming frills, just arrive at the gate , board and fly.For close to nothing.

Your satisfaction will drop as soon as you are one of the passengers on the recent FR flight where passengers pointed out to the cabin crew who then told the captain he just HIT another aircraft. There after the captain, having lots of experience of not hitting an aircraft of course, decided to fly without investigating.
Mistakes can happen on every airline.. At my airline i am encouraged to investigate and/or satisfy passengers with concerns. Ryanair takes the passengers and makes the profit because there is almost no room to make up for delay.
The low fares have to come from somewhere; don't forget that.
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JU068
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:57 am

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 12):

Well if you flew from Casablanca it would be £366 on Lufthansa, that seems quite reasonable to me taking into consideration the distance.
 
mikey72
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:50 am

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 22):
This is an aviation forum. Keep your politics to non-aviation sites.

With respect you did say I was anti-European. Seeing as I quite happily support the continent by driving BMW's and Mercedes', drinking Chassagne-Montrachet and holidaying on the Amalfi coast.......I took offence. I love Europe, all of it.....I just don't want it running my patch of it.

And no I'm not rich or a snob I just like quality 'and' value. Frankly I'd rather not fly than do so with a company who's management treat their customers with such contempt.


Quoting bestwestern (Reply 22):
And your opinion is WRONG. Your opinion that the only people who fly Ryanair are, and I quote "European nomad variety or yobs and tarts on stag/hen nights" is inaccurate, wrong and idiotic, but if thats your opinion, so be it.

It is.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:00 pm

Quoting EMAman (Reply 8):
Yes exxactly. I wasnt saying that FR are never cheap, you can get bargains, but you can on all airlines.

Well, yes - but not that cheap. Flying twice a month for nearly three years, my average fare with a little forward planning worked out around forty pounds - and that incorporates higher fares around Christmas etc. Such a low price would not be achievable with pretty much any other airline.
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eurowings
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:08 pm

I am neutral towards FR firstly and they are not my preferred choice of carrier but...

Quoting larspl (Reply 15):
At my airline i am encouraged to investigate and/or satisfy passengers with concerns. Ryanair takes the passengers and makes the profit because there is almost no room to make up for delay.
The low fares have to come from somewhere; don't forget that.
FR obviously disagreed with the actions of the captain in that case since she faced disciplinary proceedings resulting in demotion and eventually she left the company. I have been on several FR flights which were delayed because of technical problems.

As an aside, the incident has also improved the training given to crews about the importance of good communication between cabin crews and pilots.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 18):
Financially challenged people of the new European nomad variety or yobs and tarts on stag/hen nights lured by the prospect of a cheap ticket who inadvertently more often than not get ripped off and treated like dirt to boot.

That is my summary of FR.

Well, it's a load of rubbish and demonstrates that you know very little about LCCs. FR carried almost 50% more passengers than BA/IB combined did last year, you really think that all of them fit into the above categories?

The truth is that the demographics of passengers on FR flights depends almost entirely on the origin and destination of the flight. FR has an extremely diverse network of routes, such as core city routes (e.g. LGW - DUB, CIA - MAD, STN - SXF), traditional leisure routes (e.g. EDI - AGP, BRE - TFS), premium leisure routes (e.g. BRS - BZR, BLL - CCF), 'EU migrant labour routes' (e.g. LTN - BZG, BGY - CND), domestic 'commuter routes' (e.g. FAO - OPO, BCN - SDR), immigrant/VFR routes (MRS - TNG, NRN - LPP). The routes can be used by all different types of travellers, but those are just some of the categories of flights I'd identify.

Contrary to popular belief, they do actually think about their routes and while some of them seem strange at first glance, there is usually a market out there. So, aside from all the rest, I think part of their success is actually offering routes which suit the needs of markets which are not already catered for.

[Edited 2012-08-04 05:14:49]

[Edited 2012-08-04 05:17:30]
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
mikey72
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting eurowings (Reply 21):
Well, it's a load of rubbish and demonstrates that you know very little about LCCs. FR carried almost 50% more passengers than BA/IB combined did last year, you really think that all of them fit into the above categories?

It's just my opinion.

I'm going to Venice on the 20th for a week with a friend.. I've just checked the FR fare and it's £25.00 more expensive than BA.

(Believe it or not I like to travel with more than 1 spare pair of knickers.)

Considering the added benefits of flying BA.....far better located airports, couple of 'free' drinks etc etc

FR are taking the pi** !!

[Edited 2012-08-04 05:24:10]
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
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eurowings
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:33 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 22):
It's just my opinion.

Well, it could be construed as quite an insulting opinion to say that all FR passengers are penniless and/or are yobs and tarts?

I am not sure what the wealthy contingent of second home owners in France would make of it either (e.g. David Dimbleby). They make up a substantial amount of traffic on the FR routes between the UK and provincial France.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 22):
I'm going to Venice on the 20th for a week with a friend.. I've just checked the FR fare and it's £25.00 more expensive than BA.

Considering the added benefits of flying BA.....far better located airports, couple of 'free' drinks etc etc

FR are taking the pi** !!

In your specific circumstances, BA may be cheaper and more convenient. That's not going to be the case for many though, for example, I don't live anywhere near LHR or LCY for a start. Not everyone is travelling city to city and that's part of FR's success, offering direct services where the legacies won't (see examples listed in my post above).

[Edited 2012-08-04 05:40:22]
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
RussianJet
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:58 pm

Quoting eurowings (Reply 23):

Well, it could be construed as quite an insulting opinion to say that all FR passengers are penniless and/or are yobs and tarts?

Any such assertion would also just be totally incorrect. Working at STN, it is abundantly clear that all cross-sections of society opt to fly Ryanair. Any fool could see that within half an hour of working there. If your only experience of flying FR is a couple of times on STN-MJV for example then I can see how one might form that opinion, but the diversity of routes and people carried just don't support such a silly claim.
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[email protected]
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:58 pm

Frankly, it is pointless arguing with mikey72.

Anyway, I think most need to simply consider FR's average one-way fare including ancillaries: €49.90. At the average €-£ exchange rate in 2011 of around 1.15, this was about £43.40. In contrast, and for the same period, EZY's average one-way fare was £63.34, an increase of 46%. Alas, it wouldn't be prudent to compare average fares with BA given it has multiple classes and long-haul flights. As such, I will briefly compare with some other EU LCCs for which I have easily accessible data. Norwegian's average one-way was around £71 while Vueling's was about £61.05. This means Norwegian is on average 63.6% more expensive than FR, while Vueling is around 40.7% more. While merely averages, you may perceive the differentials to be great or not that much.

For clarity, the average sector lengths for those 4 are:

FR: 1170km
EZY: 1110km
DY: 1648km
VY: 867km

Don't get me wrong: the purpose isn't to suggest EZY, DY, or VY are expensive or anything, but simply to compare.

Note: all based on data from 2011 annual reports. All include ancillaries.

[Edited 2012-08-04 06:03:02]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
U2380
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:02 pm

Quoting larspl (Reply 15):
The low fares have to come from somewhere; don't forget that.

Yeah, they do, but it's certainly not through compromising safety. If I were you I'd have a look at Ryanair's safety record before making uninformed and misleading statements.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:27 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 25):
Note: all based on data from 2011 annual reports. All include ancillaries.

Great post!

I always find it interesting that people are so rabidly anti-Ryanair.I guess all of this comes from the innovations they introduced into the European aviation market. The fact that they are an extremely successful airline, that has connected many cities that previously would never have been served, can never be taken away from them.

I'm very interested to see what the future holds for the airline!
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
mikey72
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:44 pm

Quoting eurowings (Reply 23):
Well, it could be construed as quite an insulting opinion to say that all FR passengers are penniless and/or are yobs and tarts?

I didn't say they were 'penniless' and I didn't say they were 'all' yobs and tarts.

I am not sure what the wealthy contingent of second home owners in France would make of it either (e.g. David Dimbleby). They make up a substantial amount of traffic on the FR routes between the UK and provincial France.

Yes and who was it that poured scorn on these people (with such venom) who complain about FR when all of a sudden the plug gets pulled on their 'supposedly' cheap flight to their obscurely located villas ?

Quoting eurowings (Reply 23):
In your specific circumstances, BA may be cheaper and more convenient. That's not going to be the case for many though, for example, I don't live anywhere near LHR or LCY for a start. Not everyone is travelling city to city and that's part of FR's success, offering direct services where the legacies won't (see examples listed in my post above).

That's all very well and good but I'm afraid I (and many people I know) just 'will not' fly with an airline who's management openly talk about their customers in the way that FR's managament do.

At least have the guts to stand by and support Michael O'Leary and his attitude.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 27):
I always find it interesting that people are so rabidly anti-Ryanair.I guess all of this comes from the innovations they introduced into the European aviation market. The fact that they are an extremely successful airline, that has connected many cities that previously would never have been served, can never be taken away from them.

Talk about a bum rap.

The Americans got WN....we got FR.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
[email protected]
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:54 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 28):
The Americans got WN....we got FR.

Average-fare-wise, Europeans have it better: WN's average one-way fare in FY2011 was $150.59, or, and after converting from 0.62 average for the year, around £93.37. Remember: FR's average was £43.30 including ancillaries, meaning WN's average one-way fare was 115.6% higher than FR's. This is compounded when you consider FR's average sector length (1,170km) is longer than WN's (1,093km).

In terms of EZY, its average one-way fare was £63.34 - meaning WN is 47.4% higher.

Again, this is not mean to say one is cheap, one expensive, or whatever. It is simply for average fare comparison. You may draw your own conclusions. And, again, data from their 2011 annual reports.

[Edited 2012-08-04 06:56:50]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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eurowings
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:02 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 28):
That's all very well and good but I'm afraid I (and many people I know) just 'will not' fly with an airline who's management openly talk about their customers in the way that FR's managament do.

At least have the guts to stand by and support Michael O'Leary and his attitude.

That's fine and I have no issue with that. No one is forced to fly with FR, you either accept the package or you don't. However, others don't feel the same way and see that FR meets their requirements.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 28):
The Americans got WN....we got FR.

What about easyJet and the rest? It's hardly a case of legacies versus FR in Europe, is it? Some commentators on here forget that FR isn't the only "low cost" player in this industry!
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
mikey72
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting eurowings (Reply 30):
However, others don't feel the same way and see that FR meets their requirements.

Yeah I know.....it's just not my bag that's all.

They do what it says on the tin.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
BE77
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:48 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 14):
Its profits are less than the sum total of tax-breaks and subsidies it receives from airports and local governments to land at their doorstop

Interesting observation for sure - but it's usually not possible to tie the profits to just one part of the business. This is like the discussions about "Airlines make $Billions in Fees" when it is really that they just have a new price model - if you dug deeply through it they made a few $million at most (if anything) just because of the fees as the old price model would have had about the same revenue (the rest is marketing and perception - if they stayed with the old model their competition would have been perceived to be less expensive even if they were not. Similarly, FR profits are not 1:1 related to the 'breaks'.

Regardless, the best thing about the FR business model with respect to their station selection process is that it keeps competitive pressure on the Governments and Airports to control costs - not just at the ones chasing FR, but at the 'main' airports in those markets that FR is serving, since if the difference in fees gets too high, other airlines could follow them (especially to the places where FR has proven that the market will accept the alternative airport).

Without this sort of pressure, there is absolutely no incentive for the ariport fees to be kept low...so they don't even try to. New terminals are built that sit underused for years, or which are not even wanted by the airlines (since they know it will mean higher fees), and those terminals are architectural wonders (ie $$$$) instead of being focussed on cost of construction and operations / maintenance. Yes, I like a nice terminal, but is it really worth the $25 "Airport Improvement Fee" that I paid to sit in it? A $5 or $10 building might have have worked too. Landing fees, AIF, Taxi fees, high priced water due to the concession fees - all with no competition - other than when somone like FR manages to find a way to create competition where none existed - and usually among local govenrments to boot!

So, economically, even if you would 'never' fly FR, you probably owe them a lot more than you think for the benefits you receive from their mere existence - they are keeping a lot of pressure on the fees and taxes of the airports you use - and that may be even more of an effect on your airfare than the competition they provide to other airlines!
Tower, Affirmitive, gear is down and welded
 
U2380
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 14):
Its profits are less than the sum total of tax-breaks and subsidies it receives from airports and local governments to land at their doorstop.

I'm not saying that this isn't true, I'm just a little dubious, do you have any evidence?
 
BestWestern
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:12 pm

Quoting BE77 (Reply 32):
So, economically, even if you would 'never' fly FR, you probably owe them a lot more than you think for the benefits you receive from their mere existence

I agree 100%. The service level of the Irish home carrier (EI) has improved dramatically as they have to justify every Euro they charge more than Ryanair. Small things, like an edible breakfast (buy on board), punctuality, flight timing, fleet choice have all improved thanks to Ryanair.

OK, so you don't get a free Gin and Tonic onboard - but you have daily flights when before you had weekly with a good value fare to match.

Carriers around europe have to adapt to survive the arrival of Ryanair. Aer Lingus has done so, successfully and is now a stronger, better airline. Companies that ignore the change in European air travel will not survive. What will happen with Iberia over the next two years will be a carbon copy of what happened in Aer Lingus. The IAG ceo was the ceo of Aer Lingus when the company decided to survive and grow, rather than moan about the boys in Blue.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
krisyyz
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting kl911 (Thread starter):
This is to show all Ryanair bashers here on A.net that Ryanair continues to be the favorite lowcost airline in Europe.

I would respectfully disagree with FR being the "favourite" LCC in Europe , they are the biggest and most travelled, but that is because of very low fares, not passenger satisfaction. Obviously the cost of the ticket plays a big part in customer satisfaction, but from what I have read, FR is not known for great service but for low fares. You get what you pay for theory.

Their success is undeniable and their business strategy has changed the face of aviation in Europe, there is no doubt about that. My only beef with FR is based on second hand information regarding the way FR handled employee relations. So I would definitely like to hear both sides of the argument. Is it true that FR makes their pilots pay for water? Or that FR often skips on the required background checks on new hires? I also saw a BBC documentary that had a pilot complaining about only having 20 minutes to prepare up to 6 flight plans for the day.

Anyone know the stats on staff retention at FR vs. other LCC's in Europe?



KrisYYZ
 
cuban8
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:23 am

Ryanair's success when it comes to being a profitable company is unquestionable. They have a business model that works and they keep making more money when a lot of companies are bleeding money in Europe. But I don't completely agree with this:

Quoting BE77 (Reply 32):
So, economically, even if you would 'never' fly FR, you probably owe them a lot more than you think for the benefits you receive from their mere existence - they are keeping a lot of pressure on the fees and taxes of the airports you use - and that may be even more of an effect on your airfare than the competition they provide to other airlines!

I do agree that Ryanair has changed a few things for the better when it comes to new destination, lower fees and a cheaper ways of travelling. On the other hand, I think they have made a lot of things worse for aviation. You may say I should not live in the past, but the aviation enthusiast in me thinks that Ryanair has made aviation boring, stressful and less exciting.
I like to be able not to worry about things like how much luggage I have, if I paid for a drink or not, if my boarding-pass is with me or not. I also want to enjoy nice airports with duty-free, shops, restaurants and bars and not being pushed around during boarding. The last thing I want starting a vacation or business trip is stress, and on that part Ryanair is a very bad option.
The second things that Ryanair has made worse is this:

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 35):
My only beef with FR is based on second hand information regarding the way FR handled employee relations. So I would definitely like to hear both sides of the argument. Is it true that FR makes their pilots pay for water? Or that FR often skips on the required background checks on new hires? I also saw a BBC documentary that had a pilot complaining about only having 20 minutes to prepare up to 6 flight plans for the day.

Even if you need to take the FR bashing with a pinch of salt, there is no smoke without fire. Ryanair is constantly pushing the limits with its crew when it comes to rest time, turn-arounds, flight limitations and contracts in general. As long as there is a surplus of pilots and cabin-crew and no union to defend their rights, things will go on like this and will affect other airlines who tries to follow suit.
I know several training captains in Ryanair who says that the flight training is very good but that you can not train away stress coming from tight schedule (pilot fatigue) and short turn-arounds (increased risk of stress and mistakes). Ryanair still remains an airline with no fatal accidents. The question that remains is if they can keep it that way while trying to find ways to be more efficient when it comes to reducing cost. Everything has a limit.....
When business goes to hell, you get rid of three things. Your private jet, your yacht and your mistress..........and most importantly in that order.
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:27 am

Quoting cuban8 (Reply 36):
Ryanair still remains an airline with no fatal accidents. The question that remains is if they can keep it that way while

To be fair to Ryanair, it began its turnaround into an LCC in 1991 - 21 years ago.

I partially recall what MOL once said. There were 3 things that could cause lasting damage to FR - one being a fatal accident.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
JU068
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:50 am

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 35):
Is it true that FR makes their pilots pay for water? Or that FR often skips on the required background checks on new hires?

A Hungarian friend of mine went for a job interview and after a short conversation they told him that he could start his training if he could come up with €5.000. Then they told him if he doesn't have the money he could pay it off through work, I guess they would deduct it from him salary.

He said the whole process was very unprofessional and the office looked like a storage room. He did not have to provide any kind of special documents. I do not know if this is a norm or the way they do it in Hungary.
 
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adg737800
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:58 am

I'm no fan of FR, but I've used them a number of times in the past. I'm not keen on the unassigned seating and the airports they fly to and from are, on the whole, just are not convenient for me. It's quicker, easier and cheaper for me to get to LCY and LHR rather than STN, LTN of LGW. However, when I have flown with FR I've always been impressed by the punctuality and the standard of the product. FR do what they say on the tin - nothing more, nothing less! And for anyone thinking FR's passenger base is as described earlier, take a flight with them between STN and FKB. When I did earlier this year, the majority of passengers were business people in suits and ties!

As for subsidies, isn't it the job of any company's management in any sector to secure the best deal possible for its shareholders? If a city or region is willing to pay a subsidy, I see that as fair and reasonable. This has been going on for years with airports offering incentives to airlines - FR have just exploited it and fair play to them for doing that!
 
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:49 am

Of course FR has a product. Every airline does. Or, more specifically, a service-price offer or value proposition. For FR, it is, of course, based upon simplification and the fundamental elements of air transport and low average fares.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
vfw614
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:05 pm

Quoting kl911 (Thread starter):
Ryanair Friday said it sold more seats on its aircraft in July than it has sold before in a single month, underlining the strength of the budget carrier's lower-cost business model as European flag carriers struggle with rising fuel costs and the effects of the economic downturn.

Ryanair, Europe's biggest discount carrier by passenger numbers, said it carried a record 8.72 million passengers in July, up 8% from 8.08 million in July 2011. For the year to date, Ryanair carried 77.7 million passengers, up 2.4% from the same period last year

IIRC, Ryanair never talks about bums on seats, but only about tickets sold. So is this about sold tickets or transported passengers?
 
BE77
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:35 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 47):
Which is true and very sad, there are quite a few rich folks on here who would like to keep the right to be able to fly to themselves and who dont understand that it is no different from taking a 2 hour train or bus journey anymore. Just get us from A to B for the lowest poss price please, thats all we want.

Which really makes me crack up at the FR bashers. Yes, there is a market for some of the premium services, but almost all of the succesful (profitable) airlines are safely providing cheap transportation from A to B. Some of those succesful 'cheap' flights also include significant high end perq's for those willing to pay, EK for example. But, there is a large group of airlines that 'just - don't - get - it' and go broke.
A lot of the things that FR and others do not offer for 'free' are things that a lot of customers would forego, if it meant they could actually afford the flight. Another contingent would take more flights if they didn't have all the extra costs to pay for stuff they don't need. This applies to the airlines, and to the airports and govenrments who keep adding expensive things that some people don't need (it's not just at airports, but that's out of A.net's realm).

So for kl911, when I am in an airliner for work, the people that hire me expect me to show up on time and ready to go, so that takes me out of the lowest price group when working.
On my flights for personal reasons, I move a long way down market, and am looking for price + a few very select options that I value (and am willing to pay for) but there are a LOT of things in most airlines and airports that I really don't want to pay for, but have to in my ticket. At least the FR pricing approach is much more transparent (not perfect, but better).

Quoting kl911 (Reply 47):
Just get us from A to B f

Every time I see this line in A.net, I wonder if anyone has ever studied the city pair economics of flights from A to B, say from SEA to TLS.
  
Tower, Affirmitive, gear is down and welded
 
kl911
Topic Author
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting BE77 (Reply 42):
Every time I see this line in A.net, I wonder if anyone has ever studied the city pair economics of flights from A to B, say from SEA to TLS.

Every segment on a LCC is a seperate ticket, so yes, a journey can involve 3 or 4x a flight from A to B  
 
mikey72
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:58 pm

Quoting BE77 (Reply 42):

I can forgive Sir Richard Branson for his verbal attacks in the past on airlines that have built up over 9 decades the very industry he makes so much money from because at least he is the head of a class outfit.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same for the head of FR.

Combine that with the contempt they regularly display to their customers and I won't be partaking of their services anytime soon.

(not only that I will have no need to travel from the middle of nowhere to the middle of nowhere in the near future)

Doing it with some style and 'grace'....that would have been the real trick.

That said they do get you from A to B and they do make a reasonable profit....even if they do have to carry 80,000,000 passengers a year to do it and flog them everything bar the kitchen sink at a premium.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
U2380
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:33 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 44):
he makes so much money from because at least he is the head of a class outfit.

Makes so much money on? Or looses so much money on? VS are certainly not a class outfit and he doesn't own any of the other Virgin branded Airlines.

The difference between the two is that O' Leary actually knows whats he's talking about. Behind the publicity stunts is a man that has built a very successful Airline. The market is there and he uses that to his advantage brilliantly. FR has no direct competitor and they have achieved that through ruthlessly destroying the competition, airlines are businesses and they are designed to make money. FR print money.

VS on the other hand, well, they are outclassed by every single one of their competitors.

[Edited 2012-08-05 10:35:25]

[Edited 2012-08-05 10:36:31]
 
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 44):
they do make a reasonable profit

To be accurate and fair, FR earned the world's 7th highest net profit in 2011, per the July 2012 edition of ATW. They were also the highest-earning European airline and the top-performing LCC. The results for the top-10 were:

1) JL: $2,349 million
2) AC: $1,071 million
3) CZ: $957 million
4) DL: $854 million
5) UA: $840 million
6) MU: $722 million
7) FR: $709 million
8) CX: $707 million
9) IAG: $695 million
10) SU: $491 million

To me, that is more than "reasonable profit" for an industry renowed for fickle and dire financial performance. That FR consistently achieves decent operating results...

(The next LCC was EZY in 13th with $397 million followed by AK in 18th with $277 million, WN in 22nd with $178 million, and WS in 24th with $146 million.)
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
mikey72
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:41 pm

Quoting U2380 (Reply 45):
The difference between the two is that O' Leary actually knows whats he's talking about

I would imagine that building up a multi aircraft type fleet operating in a successful intercontinental sheduled airline for nigh on 30 years requires the builder to know a little bit about what they are talking about ?

As opposed to say a short-haul single aircraft type LCC whose only real competition is the short-haul networks of legacy carriers bogged down by massive restructuring and increased competition to their long-haul networks ?

My advice to FR would be....make hay whilst the sun shines....because the oil price is only going in one direction as will the strength of the (consolidating) legacies.

[Edited 2012-08-05 11:49:02]
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
BE77
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:47 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 43):

I was thinking a direct flight in a 787 or 350, taking full advantage of the new point to point economics of the new generation.

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 46):
To me, that is more than "reasonable profit" for an industry renowed for fickle and dire financial performance

Cool - adding facts to the thread!
The numbers do make FR look pretty good, relatively speaking.
I'm glad you put in the caveat pointing out that the industry sucks financially...given the capital, risk, and revenues, there is nothing "reasonable" about the profits - they are pretty pathetic compared to other industries if you ignore year to year numbers and look at 10 year periods!
If they ever invent a time machine, the Airline Investment Industry is going use it to go back and kneecap the Wright Brothers in order to save themselves $trillions.
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CPHFF
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 27):
I always find it interesting that people are so rabidly anti-Ryanair.I guess all of this comes from the innovations they introduced into the European aviation market. The fact that they are an extremely successful airline, that has connected many cities that previously would never have been served, can never be taken away from them.

THANK YOU! You are absolutely correct. Most people on here "hate FR", probably mostly due to their innovative business model and their "false advertising", such as Frankfurt (Hahn). How ever, I'm so tired of people expecting fantastic service and "legacy" pirks on FR. For gods sake, what do you expect from a € 99 round trip from Stanstead to Poland. Hello?

I do fly FR on occation, but only when absolutely needed. As I live 25min from CPH, I mostly go SK, LH or OS. It takes very advanced planning to get any round trip flights with *A for under € 200 in EU, and then you get the same crappy arrival/departure times as FR any way. The only difference is that you end up at an airport closer to where you're actually going.

I don't mind the F/A's trying to sell lottery tickets or other stuff. It's not like they're forcing them on you. Say no..
If it weren't for UAW, Detroit would shine!
 
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eurowings
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:42 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 47):
As opposed to say a short-haul single aircraft type LCC whose only real competition is the short-haul networks of legacy carriers bogged down by massive restructuring and increased competition to their long-haul networks ?

Ryanair's only real competition is from legacies? I'd strongly dispute that, take a trip to the likes of STN, BRS, EMA, LPL, LBA e.t.c and you can see easily that's not the case. These are places where legacies have limited or no presence. Short-haul out of the UK excluding LHR and LCY is dominated by LCCs.

in the UK market, they compete directly or indirectly with other LCCs such as easyJet (largest British carrier), Monarch, Jet2 and Flybe. Even the charters. All over Europe, they face direct and indirect competition from the likes of Norwegian, Vueling, Wizzair, Transavia, Germanwings e.t.c

European aviation isn't a two horse race between FR and the legacies, although from reading some threads you'd think it was...
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
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adg737800
Posts: 80
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RE: Ryanair Reaches Passenger Record!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:02 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 47):
I would imagine that building up a multi aircraft type fleet operating in a successful intercontinental sheduled airline for nigh on 30 years requires the builder to know a little bit about what they are talking about ?

That would be the "successful intercontinental airline" that last year lost £80m (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19111376)...  

I'm not a fan of FR (Exec Club Silver here!) but credit where it's due. O'Leary is a genius and visionary. He saw where the market was going and exploited it seven years or so before his competitors.

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