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787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:01 pm
by flightsimer
They finally have voted to accept the deal offered by Boeing and will begin to prepare for delivery of the first aircraft this week. Actual delivery date is still TBD. Three 787s are currently ready for delivery at this time.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...e-to-take-delivery-of-787s-375111/
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:56 pm
by aeroblogger
First 4 deliveries expected this month.
AI expects to have 7 aircraft in operation by November.
8th to arrive in January 2013. 9th to arrive April 2013. 10th to arrive in May 2013. 11th to arrive in June 2013. 12th to arrive in August 2013. 13th to arrive in November 2013. 14th to arrive in January 2014.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:37 pm
by Stitch
So
AI is not going to wait for the outcome of the GEnx failure investigation, it seems.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:55 pm
by KDAYflyer
About stinking time.
They basically wanted the planes for free. Absolutely outrageous. I hope Boeing stretched out the payments for 100 years.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:00 pm
by DocLightning
Forgive me if I missed a thread, but any word on what caused the engine failure?
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:02 pm
by United787
I am waiting until the fat lady sings before I get too excited!
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:20 pm
by FriendlySkies
Quoting KDAYflyer (Reply 3): I hope Boeing stretched out the payments for 100 years. |
If I were Boeing I'd ask for 100% as soon as they hand over the keys.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:47 pm
by ebj1248650
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4): Forgive me if I missed a thread, but any word on what caused the engine failure? |
I haven't seen anything specific about what caused the failure though I have read the engine is still going strong on airplanes that use it. Most current information appears to be that the investigation is ongoing.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:53 pm
by col
Great news for all. Let's see what Air India can do now to turn itself around.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:58 pm
by tharanga
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2): So AI is not going to wait for the outcome of the GEnx failure investigation, it seems. |
I would not read that into this news. The engine incident will, I think, be handled separately from this compensation claim. So I would expect the delivery and entry-into-service could still be delayed by the engine question.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:10 am
by flylku
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6): If I were Boeing I'd ask for 100% as soon as they hand over the keys. |
Agreed. Sorry its late but if you want to compete you'll have to fly this airplane: pay up.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:25 am
by ytz
Any idea on routes at launch?
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:42 am
by xdlx
No offense to anyone.... but it is highly unlikely that India will change the way they see and use air transport.
Air India will continue the way it has always been....
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:02 am
by aeroblogger
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2): So AI is not going to wait for the outcome of the GEnx failure investigation |
Source?
AI Engg has stated that delivery will not happen until the investigation is complete. This announcement was made after it was cleared by the CCEA.. I have not heard of any changes to this status since the announcement.
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6): If I were Boeing I'd ask for 100% as soon as they hand over the keys. |
AI is
purchasing these aircraft from Boeing. The price must be paid in full before delivery can take place...
Quoting tharanga (Reply 9): I would not read that into this news. The engine incident will, I think, be handled separately from this compensation claim. So I would expect the delivery and entry-into-service could still be delayed by the engine question. |
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:39 am
by spiritair97
The first 4, I believe, are sitting on the eamp in
CHS. It might, however, only be three, considering one is only in base colors (red tail, sticker-titles), had the engine failure last week.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:48 am
by tdscanuck
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6): Quoting KDAYflyer (Reply 3):
I hope Boeing stretched out the payments for 100 years.
If I were Boeing I'd ask for 100% as soon as they hand over the keys. |
As far as I know, all OEM's get 100% prior to delivery. If there is financing involved it's with a bank, not with the OEM. It's just like buying a car. There are some OEM's with financing arms but they're generally separate business units from the airframers and I think they mostly help arrange financing, rather than actually being the lien holder.
Tom.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:23 am
by lightsaber
Wait a second, from the OP's link:
"We are currently in discussion with the airline and will work with them to identify a timetable for delivery," says Boeing when contacted."
Ugh... That leave a bit of wiggle room. I read that announcement and its only government approval. Has
AI changed their stance?
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 13): AI Engg has stated that delivery will not happen until the investigation is complete. This announcement was made after it was cleared by the CCEA.. I have not heard of any changes to this status since the announcement.
|
Exactly. What has changed ?
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 1): First 4 deliveries expected this month.
AI expects to have 7 aircraft in operation by November. |
Source?
AI still wants more compensation:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...om-Boeing/articleshow/15378114.cms
Lightsaber
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:03 am
by JOYA380B747
I wouldn't get so excited yet.
AI is bound to create more ruckus over the engine issues.
AI is an utterly weird company run by people with monkey's brains or worse. It is high time Boeing and Airbus learnt that doing business with this nonsense of a company is worse than the little profit they'd get out of it.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:54 am
by bill142
Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 17): AI is an utterly weird company run by people with monkey's brains or worse. It is high time Boeing and Airbus learnt that doing business with this nonsense of a company is worse than the little profit they'd get out of it. |
I'm sure Boeing and Airbus would love to do that. But the political implications of such a move are probably something either of them want to stay well clear of. Especially if it results in the loss of defence contracts.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:02 pm
by cricket
Quoting Bill142 (Reply 18): Especially if it results in the loss of defence contracts. |
And Boeing has been winning a fair number of those in India
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:37 pm
by Delboy
I read somewhere they were going to be purely Domestic routes, time will tell.
As someone else said earlier, I'll believe it when the wheels touch down in India.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:37 pm
by aeroblogger
Recent RFP on the website detailed first 7 tentative delivery dates.
Now, the RFP has been taken down, but there is a tender for next 7 delivery dates... So we have a pretty clear picture of the timings of
AI's first 14 deliveries.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:07 pm
by JOYA380B747
Quoting Delboy (Reply 20): Quoting ytz (Reply 11):
Any idea on routes at launch?
I read somewhere they were going to be purely Domestic routes, time will tell.
|
Probably they'll serve
DEL-
BOM for the first few weeks for crew training until the Kangaroo flights commence.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:49 pm
by aeroblogger
It will start on "Metro domestic routes" for familiarization flights.
This means
DEL-
BOM/
BLR/
MAA/
HYD/
CCU presumably.
After that,
SYD,
MEL,
FRA, and
BOM are the expected international routes.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:16 pm
by TW
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
Quoting KDAYflyer (Reply 3):
I hope Boeing stretched out the payments for 100 years.
If I were Boeing I'd ask for 100% as soon as they hand over the keys. |
I suppose you are talking about different payments, one being compensation payments and the other one being the purchase price of the aircraft. As tdscanuck mentioned, payment is due at delivery (minus
PDP's and compensation credits).
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:54 pm
by chrisnh
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2): They basically wanted the planes for free. |
You know the word they love: "Disssssss-count.' Of course, no such word exists when THEY are the seller. I agree: Outrageous behavior.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:31 am
by PHX787
Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 7): I haven't seen anything specific about what caused the failure though I have read the engine is still going strong on airplanes that use it. Most current information appears to be that the investigation is ongoing. |
Someone told me it may have been a bird strike or debris ingestion
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:41 am
by WestWing
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 13): AI Engg has stated that delivery will not happen until the investigation is complete. |
Was this a public position stated by
AI Engineering ? I did some cursory Googling but could not find this attributed to a named
AI spokesperson so I would be interested to see the precise wording of
AI Engg.'s statement on this.
My guess is that would take weeks for the NTSB investigation to complete - doubt it would be before end of August.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:42 am
by KDAYflyer
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 15): As far as I know, all OEM's get 100% prior to delivery. If there is financing involved it's with a bank, not with the OEM. It's just like buying a car. There are some OEM's with financing arms but they're generally separate business units from the airframers and I think they mostly help arrange financing, rather than actually being the lien holder. |
I was referring to the compensation payments Boeing agreed to make to
AI for the late development . I hope they stretch them out as far as possible
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:04 am
by aeroblogger
Quoting WestWing (Reply 27):
Was this a public position stated by AI Engineering ? I did some cursory Googling but could not find this attributed to a named AI spokesperson so I would be interested to see the precise wording of AI Engg.'s statement on this. |
Media quoted spokespeople (mostly K. Swaminathan), but he said that hewas quoting
AI's chief of Engineering during a press conference.. I'll try to find you a link if I can.
Quoting WestWing (Reply 27): My guess is that would take weeks for the NTSB investigation to complete - doubt it would be before end of August. |
I'd tend to think that your guess is right.
AI will probably end up reconsidering their position sooner or later. However, they are still planning to delay to my knowledge until further information is provided.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:21 am
by tharanga
to back you up : I have also seen news articles to that effect (AI said they'd wait to see the results off the NTSB investigation), but I can't seem to find the link.
but then, here is this
"Keskar denied Thursday reports out of India that the national carrier had pledged not to accept any planes until U.S. government investigators determine why one of its jets’ engines failed during a pre-flight taxi test in North Charleston on July 28."
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20120804/PC05/120809581
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:25 am
by WestWing
If an
AI spokesperson (K. Swaminathan) went on record quoting the chief of
AI Engineering saying that
AI would not accept delivery until the investigation is complete - that is strong confirmation of an "official" position of
AI Engineering. Did Mr. Swaminathan say this at a common press conference or was it a statement he made to a specific news organization?
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:29 am
by aeroblogger
Quoting WestWing (Reply 31): If an AI spokesperson (K. Swaminathan) went on record quoting the chief of AI Engineering saying that AI would not accept delivery until the investigation is complete - that is strong confirmation of an "official" position of AI Engineering. Did Mr. Swaminathan say this at a common press conference or was it a statement he made to a specific news organization? |
I don't remember...
Quoting tharanga (Reply 30): to back you up : I have also seen news articles to that effect (AI said they'd wait to see the results off the NTSB investigation), but I can't seem to find the link. |
I can't seem to find the link either... Maybe the articles were taken down on request of
AI?
Quoting tharanga (Reply 30): "Keskar denied Thursday reports out of India that the national carrier had pledged not to accept any planes until U.S. government investigators determine why one of its jets’ engines failed during a pre-flight taxi test in North Charleston on July 28." |
Hmm, that's interesting. Let me see if I can get someone at
AI to confirm this.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:45 am
by WestWing
I did see the report that
AI refused to take the delivery until the investigation is complete. It was in a single source - Business Today. It is still out there, you can find it. However, that single sourced report was unattributed. Which is why I was looking for a more definitive source of such a statement.
Edited to add:
The quote from that Business Today story was:
Air India has conveyed to Boeing that it would "not take deliveries till we know the root cause of the problem, how the (787) fleet is getting affected and faults, if any, rectified," sources said.
I remain skeptical about the authenticity of that reporting - I did not see any other report that
independently or verifiably said the same thing. Of course if there is a separate published report where similar words are attributed to "AI spokesperson K. Swaminathan quoting the head of AI Engineering" then it would be highly credible.
[Edited 2012-08-07 21:14:45]
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:41 pm
by TCX69K
I am curious to know why the Boeing 787 has a different livery compared to the rest of the fleet? I know the engines have to remain white. But the fuselage is lacking the cheat lines & the tail is missing the Air India titles. The latter I have to say looks much better IMO!
Any responses much appreciated.
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RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:47 pm
by aeroblogger
Quoting WestWing (Reply 33): I did see the report that AI refused to take the delivery until the investigation is complete. It was in a single source - Business Today. It is still out there, you can find it. However, that single sourced report was unattributed. Which is why I was looking for a more definitive source of such a statement. |
Hindustan Times and The Hindu had reported it as well... I think it was the same PTI report. I can't seem to find it now, so that probably means that they took it down.
Quoting TCX69K (Reply 34): I am curious to know why the Boeing 787 has a different livery compared to the rest of the fleet? I know the engines have to remain white. But the fuselage is lacking the cheat lines & the tail is missing the Air India titles. The latter I have to say looks much better IMO!
|
I'm not sure why, but I can find out...
I think the lack of titles on the tail looks better, but the lack of cheatline looks worse.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:35 pm
by WarmNuts
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 35): I think the lack of titles on the tail looks better, but the lack of cheatline looks worse. |
Agreed... given the appearance of the 787 (resulting from larger windows and a greater fuselage width). I think a cheatline would improve the aesthetic of the
AI livery, especially considering the window outline accentuates the windows' (already) large size, amplifying the effect.
RE: 787s Are A Go For Air India!
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:01 pm
by HAWK21M
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2): So AI is not going to wait for the outcome of the GEnx failure investigation, it seems. |
They should.....
Quoting xdlx (Reply 12): No offense to anyone.... but it is highly unlikely that India will change the way they see and use air transport.
Air India will continue the way it has always been.... |
Don't generalize
AI as INDIA....There are other operators out there too......& very professionally run one also......