staralliance85
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Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:00 am

In my opinion, I feel SQ does Not show much love in the *A as much as TG does. Such as in partner award availability and lounge access policies. Do you ever think SQ would leave *A and move over to ST? I think that would make perfect sense because they own VS and ST would be thrilled to have those two members. SE Asia would have three major carriers SQ ST, Thai *A and Malaysia OW. It would be a home run for ST because that would give them a solid kangaroo route. Even though, Vietnam Airlines is in ST, they are only a developing airline.
brad Fitzpatrick
 
PHX787
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:39 am

I think SQ is doing fine in *A and I honestly think Skyteam would be a rather random selection for SQ. With their connections in Japan with NH and UA I see a really decent relationship that's going on here.
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kiwiandrew

RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:43 am

Quoting staralliance85 (Thread starter):
I think that would make perfect sense because they own VS

SQ does not own VS, SQ owns a large , but minority, stake in VS.
 
nethkt
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:03 am

SQ will still be in *A for their better benefits yet they love not to follow the rules.
From common STAR aircraft painting, co-operation, under-one-roof till lounge policy, they just don't give s***.
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
mpdpilot
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:40 am

I really think that this would be a fantastic idea. BUT, I don't think it will ever happen. SQ knows that they are one of the best airlines in the world. I don't think they go out of their way to be a part of Star but I don't think they would go out of their way to leave Star. They also aren't going to go out of their way to please other airlines either because they really don't need to.

Now the only way that SQ ever leaves Star is if Delta and Korean step forward and say, "We will take care of everything, and we will change our policies to match Singapore Airlines". I don't think Delta and Korean would do that, because they don't need SQ that much.

It would be very cool though...
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mandala499
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:59 am

Quoting staralliance85 (Thread starter):
SE Asia would have three major carriers SQ ST, Thai *A and Malaysia OW. It would be a home run for ST because that would give them a solid kangaroo route. Even though, Vietnam Airlines is in ST, they are only a developing airline.

Add Garuda to the ST list too... And Garuda provides flights to Australia from DPS, a KLM destination (albeit that's stretching it).
SQ (& MI) brings *A access to major points in Indonesia, a fast growing market for airlines...
If SQ moves to ST, there's hell to pay in ST! MH already rejected years back (hence they're now trying for OW).

Quoting staralliance85 (Thread starter):
It would be a home run for ST because that would give them a solid kangaroo route.

Which is being eaten alive day by day by Emirates...   
ST's focus is elsewhere.
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strfyr51
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:06 pm

SQ was a charter and founding member of Star. They pull a LOT of weight in Star. What's the Advantage for them TO leave??
the other airlines Can use their clubs and lounges all over the world as they can and DO use ours (UAL) anyplace we are. They so accept miles as well. I'm not sure of what you're talking about since I've used what little miles i have on SQ even when flying on a ZED fare.
 
jfk777
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:45 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
I think SQ is doing fine in *A and I honestly think Skyteam would be a rather random selection for SQ. With their connections in Japan with NH and UA I see a really decent relationship that's going on here.

Singapore ha sin Star the path of least resistence. Skyteam and OW may want more out of them, SIA became part of an alliance because every one else did.

Quoting nethkt (Reply 3):
SQ will still be in *A for their better benefits yet they love not to follow the rules.
From common STAR aircraft painting, co-operation, under-one-roof till lounge policy, they just don't give s***.

SIA is the "Rolls Royce" of airlines and doesn't need the "chevy" passengers from the "poorer" Star partners, sorry Avianca.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 4):
I really think that this would be a fantastic idea. BUT, I don't think it will ever happen. SQ knows that they are one of the best airlines in the world. I don't think they go out of their way to be a part of Star but I don't think they would go out of their way to leave Star. They also aren't going to go out of their way to please other airlines either because they really don't need to.[/quote}

SIA's stitude is what Pan Am's was "we are the leaders that other follow", 20 years from now that may change but not any time soon. The Government of Singapore will do what they have to do to retain SIA's preminence. Sonner or later the Asian airlines will have transborder mergers, SIA will have its choice of marriage partners.

[quote=strfyr51,reply=6]SQ was a charter and founding member of Star. They pull a LOT of weight in Star. What's the Advantage for them TO leave??

THai was the founding Asian member in Star, SIA was not but wanted "founding" member status.
 
qm001
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:51 pm

Actually SQ was not a founding member of Star... they joined after a significant amount of time, and after much persuasion from LH!

If it weren't for the demise of SR, we might have very well seen them in the Qualiflyer alliance together with SN, TP and DL  Smile

[Edited 2012-08-11 06:55:14]
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max999
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting staralliance85 (Thread starter):
In my opinion, I feel SQ does Not show much love in the *A as much as TG does. Such as in partner award availability and lounge access policies. Do you ever think SQ would leave *A and move over to ST? I think that would make perfect sense because they own VS and ST would be thrilled to have those two members. SE Asia would have three major carriers SQ ST, Thai *A and Malaysia OW. It would be a home run for ST because that would give them a solid kangaroo route. Even though, Vietnam Airlines is in ST, they are only a developing airline.
Quoting nethkt (Reply 3):
SQ will still be in *A for their better benefits yet they love not to follow the rules.
From common STAR aircraft painting, co-operation, under-one-roof till lounge policy, they just don't give s***.

I think SQ can flout the rules because *A needs SQ more than SQ needs *A. It's not an equal relationship.

That being said, it wouldn't be an equal relationship whatever alliance SQ belongs to. They could join ST, OW, or some other alliance, but they would act just as arrogantly as they were in *A.

[Edited 2012-08-11 07:54:43]
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:03 pm

A few years ago when I was regularly flying on SQ, I didn't notice any Star rules being flouted. Their rewards program and upgrade path was about the same as LH....but their product was so much better. All of the miles I flew on SQ were taken 1 to 1 on my Air Canada plan...which had the easiest upgrades of any airline I've travelled with.

As it is, the J product on SQ was so good that I didn't feel any need to upgrade....and I was flying from Dubai to Brisbane/Sydney...not short flights. In stark contrast...I had an 11 hour torture test on an EK 777 that made me deeply regret my decision to experiment.

SQ is the benchmark for service by which all other airlines measure themselves. SQ will never leave Star because they are a jewel in the crown. Let them break the rules...it's worth it just to keep them around.
What the...?
 
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huaiwei
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:26 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
SIA is the "Rolls Royce" of airlines and doesn't need the "chevy" passengers from the "poorer" Star partners, sorry Avianca.
Quoting max999 (Reply 9):
they would act just as arrogantly as they were in *A.

I think both comments swing to opposite extremes. Yes, it is true SQ frets alot about its image and protecting the brand it has cultivated over the years (which premium brand would not?), but its seemingly half-hearted membership in Star Alliance is likely more due to a direct effect on its bottom line than anything else.

How so? Because 1. SQ happens to be a premium airline and is stingy when it comes to upgrades and 2. SQ is also fairly stingy in giving out miles. As a result, many flyers, especially those here in Singapore where we have more choices of Star carriers, will game the system to our advantage by flying other carriers for a cheaper rate and yet with higher miles accrual, then redeeming them on SQ's flights. Thus, the whole concept of FF miles is suddenly disadvantageous for SQ, because people are contributing to the profits of other carriers, while flying SQ for free!

It may be partly due to this that SQ is very selective on which airline they code-shares with, even amongst Star carriers. They codeshare with NH probably because NH is almost the same in terms of mileage "generosity", but not so with Thai, which gives out miles on the cheap.

So if SQ ever leaves Star, it will be a result of an honest self-examination on whether joining an alliance has actually helped its bottom line. Not like there are many other ways to evaluate one's membership thou!  
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brilondon
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 6):

SQ was a charter and founding member of Star. They pull a LOT of weight in Star. What's the Advantage for them TO leave??
the other airlines Can use their clubs and lounges all over the world as they can and DO use ours (UAL) anyplace we are. They so accept miles as well. I'm not sure of what you're talking about since I've used what little miles i have on SQ even when flying on a ZED fare.

They were not a founding member but they are a very important one for Star.
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questions
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:53 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
SIA is the "Rolls Royce" of airlines and doesn't need the "chevy" passengers from the "poorer" Star partners, sorry Avianca.

Which is exactly why they would not join Sky Team which is made up of third choice airlines the other two alliances didn't want.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 10):
In stark contrast...I had an 11 hour torture test on an EK 777 that made me deeply regret my decision to experiment.

EK in J? What made it a torture test?
 
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fraspotter
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting nethkt (Reply 3):
SQ will still be in *A for their better benefits yet they love not to follow the rules.
From common STAR aircraft painting, co-operation, under-one-roof till lounge policy, they just don't give s***.

In other words, SIA is the "honey badger" of the airline industry... I personally would have a hard time picturing SIA in an alliance other than Star but it's like that with almost anything that has stayed the same for so long.
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:37 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 13):

Sorry about that...I meant Y.
What the...?
 
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huaiwei
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:07 am

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 14):
I personally would have a hard time picturing SIA in an alliance other than Star but it's like that with almost anything that has stayed the same for so long.

Actually I have problems picturing SQ in *Star when they first joined. In fact, many were surprised they joined any alliance. Image wise, SQ fits in with OneWorld most beautifully, but we all know that is next to impossible.  
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
aviasian
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:40 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
With their connections in Japan with NH and UA I see a really decent relationship that's going on here.

I don't think there is much of a relationship between SIA and UA anywhere ... it has stronger ties with ANA, Lufthansa, SAS, Turkish Airlines, LOT, Air NZ and South African Airways but just does not exhibit any chemistry with UA. Perhaps it is due to the fact that UA's hard product is too out-dated.

Star Alliance membership must certainly bring huge dividends to SIA and I do not see it leaving the alliance for any other, least of all oneworld.

KC Sim
 
airbazar
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:35 pm

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 16):
Actually I have problems picturing SQ in *Star when they first joined. In fact, many were surprised they joined any alliance.

Uh? SQ was a pioneer in the airline alliance business. They, along with Swissair and Delta formed the Global Excellence airline alliance. This was wel before there was a StarAlliance, OneWorld, or SkyTeam. SQ understands that to survive they have to be in a global alliance due to the poor geographic location of Singapore.

Quoting max999 (Reply 9):
I think SQ can flout the rules because *A needs SQ more than SQ needs *A. It's not an equal relationship.

I don't agree. I think both need eachother equaly. SQ has it's market, UA has it's market, and LH has it's market. Look at how weak SQ is in N.America for example. I'm sure that has a lot to do with LH and UA telling them to backoff. You would think that an airline like SQ would be able to serve more than 4 cities in the entire N.American continent.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:43 pm

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 16):
Actually I have problems picturing SQ in *Star when they first joined. In fact, many were surprised they joined any alliance. Image wise, SQ fits in with OneWorld most beautifully, but we all know that is next to impossible.  

Maybe you've missed the age-old rivalry betwen Singapore and Hong Kong in nearly every category of life ? SQ and CX being the same alliance would be really shocking.

But I wouldn't mind oneworld/star do a swap deal with SQ/CX, and it fits my travel patterns better.
 
PezySPU
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:34 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
SQ understands that to survive they have to be in a global alliance due to the poor geographic location of Singapore.

Could you elaborate on that? Thanks.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
SQ understands that to survive they have to be in a global alliance due to the poor geographic location of Singapore.

Singapore is nearly the perfect stopover for the Kangaroo route, and SQ is the de facto international carrier for Indonesia since Garuda sucks big time.

SQ may have other reasons to join an alliance, but bad geography sure isn't one.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 6):
SQ was a charter and founding member of Star.

Not correct. The 5 founding members in May 1997 weree UA, LH, AC, TG, SK. SQ was only the 11th member 3 years later in April 2000.

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 20):
Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
SQ understands that to survive they have to be in a global alliance due to the poor geographic location of Singapore.

Could you elaborate on that? Thanks.

Probably referring to SIN being too far south to make an ideal connecting hub except between Europe and Australia. For example, SIN is a generally poor transpacific connecting hub between North America and most points in Asia apart from nearby markets like Malaysia and Indonesia. To most other points, connecting in SIN means flying quite a bit further than via more northerly Asian hubs like ICN, NRT, HKG.
 
kulatict
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:50 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
To most other points, connecting in SIN means flying quite a bit further than via more northerly Asian hubs like ICN, NRT, HKG.

the thing is, SQ is flying from these northerly hubs to US daily, making SIN's geopraphical disadvantage reasoning moot
 
PezySPU
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:18 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
Probably referring to SIN being too far south to make an ideal connecting hub except between Europe and Australia. For example, SIN is a generally poor transpacific connecting hub between North America and most points in Asia apart from nearby markets like Malaysia and Indonesia. To most other points, connecting in SIN means flying quite a bit further than via more northerly Asian hubs like ICN, NRT, HKG.

Yes, I understand that. But it doesn't explain airbazar's argument that they need to be in an alliance.
 
airbazar
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:46 am

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 20):
Could you elaborate on that? Thanks.

Other than the Kangaroo route, you can't get between 2 points on the Globe via SIN, without some significant backtracking, and significant markets like the America's and Europe would be uncompetitive for SQ without partners hence why SQ has dropped so many routes to Europe in favor of connections via *A partners (i.e. LH), and why their presence in the America's is so thin. SQ understood this very early on, hence why they were a pioneer in the airline alliance business.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 21):
Singapore is nearly the perfect stopover for the Kangaroo route, and SQ is the de facto international carrier for Indonesia since Garuda sucks big time.

And nothing else.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
Probably referring to SIN being too far south to make an ideal connecting hub except between Europe and Australia.

  
 
avek00
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:00 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 6):
SQ was a charter and founding member of Star.

Nope, they joined several years after it was up and running.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
SIA is the "Rolls Royce" of airlines and doesn't need the "chevy" passengers from the "poorer" Star partners, sorry Avianca.

This is not at all accurate in the current industry environment -- SQ has come under substantial cost and revenue pressures from competitors that have retooled their products and cost structures. One consequence of this pressure was the launch of Scoot.

Quoting max999 (Reply 9):
I think SQ can flout the rules because *A needs SQ more than SQ needs *A. It's not an equal relationship.

I disagree with this. SQ certainly contributes to the success of the alliance in many respects -- and would be at a significant competitive disadvantage if it operated without alliance participation.
Live life to the fullest.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:16 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 25):
Other than the Kangaroo route, you can't get between 2 points on the Globe via SIN, without some significant backtracking, and significant markets like the America's and Europe would be uncompetitive for SQ without partners hence why SQ has dropped so many routes to Europe in favor of connections via *A partners (i.e. LH), and why their presence in the America's is so thin. SQ understood this very early on, hence why they were a pioneer in the airline alliance business.

The only practical hubs on Earth that could get between any 2 points are the Gulf ones. Who says an airline needs an omni-feed to work ?

HKG has always been the neglected stepsister on both Kangaroo and TPAC routings, yet CX has been doing fine all this time.
 
rogercamel
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 25):
Other than the Kangaroo route, you can't get between 2 points on the Globe via SIN, without some significant backtracking,

Not really - it's a good stopover point for many places from SE Asia, and also from Australia (not just the Kangaroo route). I imagine that MI gets a fair amount of feed into its network from *A carriers, and its codeshare arrangements with SQ.

Quoting aviasian (Reply 17):
I don't think there is much of a relationship between SIA and UA anywhere

Yes - the relationship does appear distinctly lukewarm at best. IMHO they get on a little better with US (there are some codeshares I think) but it will be interesting to see if the UA/SQ relationship improves if US is merged out of *A.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 11):
As a result, many flyers, especially those here in Singapore where we have more choices of Star carriers, will game the system to our advantage by flying other carriers for a cheaper rate and yet with higher miles accrual, then redeeming them on SQ's flights

Shhh!!!! Keep it quiet! Around 80% of my KF miles (>50000 in 4 months) have been earned flying NH and UA, yet 100% of my redemptions are SQ  
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:59 pm

Seems like a lot of DL fanboys wanting to see SQ in SkyTeam.

Wont happen until hell freezes over, sorry lads. Dream on.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
avek00
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting rogercamel (Reply 28):
Yes - the relationship does appear distinctly lukewarm at best. IMHO they get on a little better with US (there are some codeshares I think) but it will be interesting to see if the UA/SQ relationship improves if US is merged out of *A.

UA and SQ have cooperated more closely in the past when mutual business needs warranted. In fact, SQ was involved in UA's Ameniti program, launched during UA's time in bankruptcy, to cater to premium travelers.

But I've heard straight from the mouths of SQ executives that New Delta and New United are the two airlines that worry them most for the time being, so don't expect deeper cooperation anytime soon.
Live life to the fullest.
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:02 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 6):
SQ was a charter and founding member of Star. They pull a LOT of weight in Star.

No

Founding members were:

" Founded in 1997, its name and emblem represent the five founding airlines, Air Canada, Lufthansa, Scandinavian Airlines, Thai Airways International, and United Airlines. "

SQ did'nt become a member until 2000
 
airbazar
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:32 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 27):
The only practical hubs on Earth that could get between any 2 points are the Gulf ones. Who says an airline needs an omni-feed to work ?

Or Europe (with the exception of Australia), and that's exactly why SQ needs to be in a alliance and EK doesn't.

[Edited 2012-08-14 10:33:08]
 
PHX787
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:39 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 29):
Seems like a lot of DL fanboys wanting to see SQ in SkyTeam.

Wont happen until hell freezes over, sorry lads. Dream on.

Somewhat of a DL fanboy here.....don't wanna see SQ in Skyteam because it would do nothing for Skyteam.
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airbazar
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 29):
Seems like a lot of DL fanboys wanting to see SQ in SkyTeam.
Wont happen until hell freezes over, sorry lads. Dream on.

To me it makes no difference since I don't fly any of the routes that SQ flies and I'm a *A FF however, SQ did come from the Qualifyier group with Delta and Swissair and if Swissair hadn't disapeared SQ would likely be in SkyTeam today. Having said that, with KE in SkyTeam the chances that SQ would join Sky are slim to none. IMO, there's a greater chance of seeing SQ and CX in the same alliance than there is of seeing SQ and KE in the same alliance.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 33):
don't wanna see SQ in Skyteam because it would do nothing for Skyteam.

Likewise you'd see SQ saying 'What would Skyteam do for us?' And I think SQ would offer more to Skyteam than the other way round.

BTW, I'd never see SQ leaving star unless they went independent. Like EK, they don't really need alliance partners like most airlines do.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:04 pm

On a less related topic. Why did NZ and SQ stop code sharing on the AKL-SIN route? I find this a little bit strange as SQ code shares on NZ domestic flights and these 2 carriers use to code share on everything (even SIN-ZRH).

I take it the fallout in 2000 may have something to do with it
 
Megatop747-412
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:20 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 36):

I wondered about that too! SQ also code share with NZ on selected Trans Tasman flight as well, so it would be interesting to know why they stopped the SIN-AKL code share...
 
docpepz
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:27 am

It's because NZ no longer flies to SIN. SQ codeshares with NZ trans tasman so that SQ can sell SIN-SYD-AKL-SIN routings.

In the days where NZ flew to SIN, it could transfer their own pax to SIN-Europe and Asia flights.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:44 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 33):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 29):
Seems like a lot of DL fanboys wanting to see SQ in SkyTeam.

Wont happen until hell freezes over, sorry lads. Dream on.

Somewhat of a DL fanboy here.....don't wanna see SQ in Skyteam because it would do nothing for Skyteam.

Right.

The best airline in the world, famed the world over for consistently industry-leading product and profits the likes of DL couldnt ever dream of, one of the largest international airlines in the world would bring absolutely nothing to SkyTeam.

Sorry I cant get my head round that. Can you explain. I'd have thought SkyTeam would be falling over themselves to induct a second world class airline into the alliance after KE. DL are getting closer, but the rest of their members are hardly at the same level, quality wise. CSA, AZ, AF, KL, CI, SU etc. AF is the only half decent one there. The rest are middling at best.

SQ would introduce a whole new level of quality to the SkyTeam alliance.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3664
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:21 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 36):
Quoting Megatop747-412 (Reply 37):
Quoting Docpepz (Reply 38):

Pretty sure it's a lot less friendly than that and has quite a lot to do with the loss of face SQ suffered after the AN collapse and significant SQ equity loss in its NZ investment post the re-nationalising of N.Z.'s flag-carrier.

SQ Chief Executive of the day Dr Cheong Choong Kong was noted in the media as being notably angry/furious/livid with the whole AN/NZ fiasco and subsequent consolidation and success of the DJ brand.

This I believe has more to do with the Cold War between alliance partners SQ and NZ.

[Edited 2012-08-15 02:26:21]

[Edited 2012-08-15 02:27:28]
come visit the south pacific
 
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huaiwei
Posts: 355
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:13 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):

Uh? SQ was a pioneer in the airline alliance business. They, along with Swissair and Delta formed the Global Excellence airline alliance. This was wel before there was a StarAlliance, OneWorld, or SkyTeam. SQ understands that to survive they have to be in a global alliance due to the poor geographic location of Singapore.

Although an "alliance", the Global Excellence stuff involved equity exchange. Rather then an attempt to create a global alliance with full cooperation, for SQ's case it was more part of its on-going desire to expand out of its sole SIN base by investing into other airlines, which as we know has been generally a spectacular failure. This so-called alliance has not contributed much to any of the parties concerned, hence its termination.

Quoting aviasian (Reply 17):
but just does not exhibit any chemistry with UA. Perhaps it is due to the fact that UA's hard product is too out-dated.

Doesn't explain why they codeshare with US thou, which IMO is worse. Still waiting for someone to enlighten.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
Look at how weak SQ is in N.America for example. I'm sure that has a lot to do with LH and UA telling them to backoff. You would think that an airline like SQ would be able to serve more than 4 cities in the entire N.American continent.

Someone mentioned SIN's geography is bad, and it is actually true in this regard. SQ's services to NA is almost completely reliant on 5th freedoms, because it is the furthest geographically compared to any of its major East Asian competitors from NA, plus even BKK. Unlike any of the Japanese carriers or CX who can simply ramp up non-stop flights as they deem fit, SQ has to work around constrains of stop-overs and such, and this inconvenience can also draw customers away.

This is partly the reason why SQ was so adamant on laying its hands on the first plane which can fly SIN-US non-stop, and it stubbornly keeps the ULH flying despite the difficulties.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 25):
And nothing else.

You will be surprised how many nationalities of people fly out of SQ to anywhere else in the world. SQ is the de-facto carrier for many Southeast Asians, especially the well-to-do, even if it involves backtracking, and this is partly the reason why only three SE Asian carriers have an extensive global network, while the rest (those in Indonesia, Vietnam, the Philippines) take such a long time to build up despite having a much larger demographic base.

Be surprised also, but SQ is well loved by Indians who would fly to the US via SQ, even if it means two stopovers. Only recently did CX try to grab a bigger market share after a new bilateral which allowed for more flights.

Quoting rogercamel (Reply 28):
Shhh!!!! Keep it quiet! Around 80% of my KF miles (>50000 in 4 months) have been earned flying NH and UA, yet 100% of my redemptions are SQ

   !!

[Edited 2012-08-15 04:15:21]
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
bobnwa
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:31 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 39):
The best airline in the world, famed the world over for consistently industry-leading product and profits the likes of DL couldnt ever dream of

Have you checked the profits of SQ and DL the last few years?
 
airbazar
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:14 pm

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 41):
Although an "alliance", the Global Excellence stuff involved equity exchange. Rather then an attempt to create a global alliance with full cooperation, for SQ's case it was more part of its on-going desire to expand out of its sole SIN base by investing into other airlines, which as we know has been generally a spectacular failure. This so-called alliance has not contributed much to any of the parties concerned, hence its termination.

You're confusing Global Excellence with Qualiflyer group. You're right about the former which was the predecessor to the Qualiflyer Group, and was a group mostly made up of airlines partly where Swissair had a financial interest, plus SQ and DL. That eventually became the Qualiflyer Group which was an airline alliance with various levels of cooperation between its partners. That it had less synergies than today's alliances is undertandable since they were creating somethign new. I myself flew BOS-JFK-FRA-SIN on a combined DL/SQ ticket back in the early 90's.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 41):
You will be surprised how many nationalities of people fly out of SQ to anywhere else in the world.

I don't have to be surprised. I lived in SQ for a while. Just because they do a great deal of regional business doesn't mean they are perfectly located to be a global hub. There are many other ways to attract business besides location. SQ does it with a great product, a highly efficient hub, and fantastic marketing. But it doesn't change the fact that if you want to travel from Singapore to a secondary city in Europe or the Americas you must use an Alliance partner.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 35):
BTW, I'd never see SQ leaving star unless they went independent. Like EK, they don't really need alliance partners like most airlines do.

Nonesense. Read my last sentence above. EK does not need anyone to reach most significant markets around the World, whereas SQ does. SIN is also not as well positioned to be a Global hub. They do a great job with what they do but you cannot fly between the 2 fastest growing economies via SIN (S.America and China), without some major backtracking and an additional stop. You will when there is a plane capable of flying GRU/SCL-SIN  
Even flying between Europe/America and most of Asia via SIN is a huge inconvenience. The fact the SQ does have customers doing that kind of routing speaks volumes about how good they are.
 
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huaiwei
Posts: 355
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:07 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 43):
You're confusing Global Excellence with Qualiflyer group. You're right about the former which was the predecessor to the Qualiflyer Group, and was a group mostly made up of airlines partly where Swissair had a financial interest, plus SQ and DL. That eventually became the Qualiflyer Group which was an airline alliance with various levels of cooperation between its partners. That it had less synergies than today's alliances is undertandable since they were creating somethign new. I myself flew BOS-JFK-FRA-SIN on a combined DL/SQ ticket back in the early 90's.

My understanding is that DL, Swiss and SQ formed GE in the late 1980s, but never really codeshared until years later, which was probably the time when the alliance merged into the Qualifyer thing. As I mentioned, SQ did not seriously bother about codesharing much, and has never codeshared with Swiss even within the Qualiflyer group. I distinctively remember how Swiss and SQ would compete on the SIN-ZUR route despite behind supposed partners.

Anyway, I believe SQ's departure from the alliance came about especially after they cozied up with LH amd began codesharing with them....the precursor to them joining Star. Hence, while SQ's purpose in Star was more operational, its purpose in GE appears less clearcut. They appear only interested in gaining access to North America than to bother about a global alliance!

Quoting airbazar (Reply 43):
I lived in SQ for a while.

I would love to do that too.  
Quoting airbazar (Reply 43):
Just because they do a great deal of regional business doesn't mean they are perfectly located to be a global hub.

I was simply rebutting your point where you claimed no one is going to backtrack and take SQ except for Indonesia and the Kangaroo Route. They do, and plenty of them in fact. How else can an airline the size of SQ carry that many passengers from a country the size of Singapore? Consider the fact also that that SQ's biggest market is not the kangaroo route either.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 43):
SIN is also not as well positioned to be a Global hub. They do a great job with what they do but you cannot fly between the 2 fastest growing economies via SIN (S.America and China), without some major backtracking and an additional stop. You will when there is a plane capable of flying GRU/SCL-SIN
Even flying between Europe/America and most of Asia via SIN is a huge inconvenience. The fact the SQ does have customers doing that kind of routing speaks volumes about how good they are.

In all honesty, SQ need not be worried too much, because the future growth of the world economy will not be across the Pacific, and neither will it be over the Atlantic. It will be intra-Asia, with East, South and Southeast Asia eventually dominating world aviation traffic. Australia could probably join the party depending on their demographic policies. Seen from this context, Singapore is smack in the middle of Southeast Asia with its 600 million inhabitants, and also smack in the centre of the China-India-Australia axis.

The growth is in Asia, and SQ, along with a whole host of airlines, already knows this. For it's part, SQ is gradually reducing its long haul flights, and ramping up its regional ones to return to higher profit levels. It is also readying itself for 2015 when the Southeast Asian open skies comes into (limited) effect.

So if EK wants to take all the long haul global routes, they can have it. It is a sunset market anyway, because geography is not going to help EK when it comes to flights between China, India, Indonesia and Australia! 
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
airbazar
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:34 pm

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 44):
Anyway, I believe SQ's departure from the alliance came about especially after they cozied up with LH amd began codesharing with them....

That was the logical progression and it only proves my point that SQ wants to and sees the need to be in a alliance.
SQ only joined *A years after departing Qualifyer. Qualifyer shut down becuase the dominant group in the alliance, Swissair shut down. There was no other alliance at the time for SQ to join. *A did not form until 1997, when other airlines realized that that was going to be the way if the future.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 44):
In all honesty, SQ need not be worried too much, because the future growth of the world economy will not be across the Pacific, and neither will it be over the Atlantic. It will be intra-Asia, with East, South and Southeast Asia eventually dominating world aviation traffic.

IMO that is a huge reason to worry about because SIN would become a periphery hub. Personally I don't believe that will be the case. NY, Sao Paulo, Frankfurt will continue to be leading Financial centers in the forseable future and migration of people around the world will contribute to the growth in air travel. Asia may be tops in volume but I don't see yields being that higher than many other regions in the World.
 
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huaiwei
Posts: 355
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:00 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 45):
That was the logical progression and it only proves my point that SQ wants to and sees the need to be in a alliance.
SQ only joined *A years after departing Qualifyer. Qualifyer shut down becuase the dominant group in the alliance, Swissair shut down. There was no other alliance at the time for SQ to join. *A did not form until 1997, when other airlines realized that that was going to be the way if the future.

From what I understand (and also based on what can be read in books)
- Qualifyer shut down more because SQ left the alliance in 1997 (or you can say they are effectively left with only two members...the alliance existed merely by name, and the shares were sold years later). Swiss only collapsed in 2001.
- 1997 was also the year SQ began codesharing with LH along with a wider range of cooperation. Membership only came years later.

It is evident to me that SQ only joined the Qualifyer alliance to gain greater access to North America through Delta to help establish a presence on the trans-atlantic market, which explained their cold attitude towards Swiss which was seen more as a competitor than partner. This is the same reason they bought into VS to maintain that presence years after the collapse of this alliance. It was not so much about needing a "global alliance" so to speak. They simply wanted a presence in what was then the biggest market besides the Kangaroo route, and the rest are really not of much concern, because SQ prefers to fly its own metal on them. Remember how SQ tries very hard to go trans-Pacific via Australia, when it could have simply just codeshared with NZ? Seriously...why bother if they can just join an alliance?

Quoting airbazar (Reply 45):
IMO that is a huge reason to worry about because SIN would become a periphery hub. Personally I don't believe that will be the case. NY, Sao Paulo, Frankfurt will continue to be leading Financial centers in the forseable future and migration of people around the world will contribute to the growth in air travel. Asia may be tops in volume but I don't see yields being that higher than many other regions in the World.

Economic forecasts will show otherwise. In the same way London plays a major role of liking the European continent and the North Amercian landmass, Singapore is trying to do the same between the three major Asian regions, and if it plays its cards right, may very well succeed. The Asian economy will grow and overshadow the rest of the world, and Singapore (and SQ) is determined to remain at the heart of the action. Of course determination may not lead anywhere, but better to try something than to be complacent. SQ's recent string of criticisms is a reflection of general perception of their arrogance and complacency, but I suppose us Singaporeans are just excellent in the complain department.  
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:02 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 39):
SQ would introduce a whole new level of quality to the SkyTeam alliance.

Quality? Of course.

Fees/costs/money associated with a codeshare with such an airline? Routes that a codeshare with SQ could offer? Well, besides in Korea, I don't see anything. DL and KE have a LOT of support in Asia by themselves for their own niche. Skyteam also pretty much owns western Europe (CDG and AMS) so I don't see why they need S.E. Asia when it's served fine enough from ICN and NRT.
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airbazar
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RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 46):
The Asian economy will grow and overshadow the rest of the world, and Singapore (and SQ) is determined to remain at the heart of the action.

Singapore can be as determined as they want but they can't change geography. No one is going to travel between Japan and China via Singapore.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Would SQ Ever Leave Star Alliance?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 41):
Quoting aviasian (Reply 17):
but just does not exhibit any chemistry with UA. Perhaps it is due to the fact that UA's hard product is too out-dated.

Doesn't explain why they codeshare with US thou, which IMO is worse. Still waiting for someone to enlighten.

I remember when UA was very upset when SQ began 5th freedom service AMS-ORD. That was probably one of the issues that got the UA/SQ relationship off to a bad start.

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