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135mech
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:56 pm

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 15):
Like AA has a really strong European network to begin with...out of all the US majors, theirs is by far the worst.

They are paired with BA, so doesn't that make their network out of LHR (if their system actually works)?

Quoting pesit4a (Reply 21):
If AA needs 33 staff at a station with just one daily flight, its no wonder they cannot make it work.

I dont get the US airline thing of opening an elaborate station for every daily flight to Europe. Outsource it, and have a small managerial presence to oversee it.

33 people is not that much when you have to turn a large jet: Rampers, Baggage Handlers, Desk and Gate Clerks, to cover activity and have people there late to cover lost bags etc.
135Mech
 
runway23
Posts: 2372
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 93):
So it's filling the forward cabin .... because the forward cabin is artificially small ? With 3-class service and flat-bed J from both UA and LX, how would 2-class service with slanted J be competitive ?

JFK-ZRH has a larger J cabin than JFK-BRU does/did (767 vs 757). And whilst the product is totally uncompetitive compared to LX, it is mostly filled on paid tickets, which is not the case for a number of other routes in Europe.

You also vastly underestimate the fact that fares ex Switzerland are a lot higher than other European countries (to a certain extent due to the high CHF), which does help with yield.

Quoting tomcat (Reply 85):
Indeed but the main fact is that SN used to code-share with AA and doing so, it provided a much welcome feed in BRU. SN (and SR & Co) turned to AA/BA after DL left Qualiflyer and formed Skyteam.

Again, SN were never part of Oneworld. DL was never part of Qualiflyer, they had an agreement with SR back then but that it is. It is far from what alliances are today.

Also, whilst AA partnered with SR/LX and SN, there was no agreement with BA at the time when DL left for Skyteam. The various partnerships of LX and SN with BA came afterwards (for LX it was only after the collapse of SR).
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 101):
JFK-ZRH has a larger J cabin than JFK-BRU does/did (767 vs 757). And whilst the product is totally uncompetitive compared to LX, it is mostly filled on paid tickets, which is not the case for a number of other routes in Europe.

Is that just a guess, or you have access to internal data that proves it ?
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4352
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 95):
The BRU airport is quite large and does not seem too busy.

It depends on the time of the day. The non-Schengen terminal is actually quite busy in the morning. It isn't LHR by any stretch of the imagination, but until 9W and AA end their flights to JFK, there isn't a lot of spare capacity either. At times in the afternoon, on the other hand, it is a desert...

Quoting seatback (Reply 96):
If this is true, then yields must be in the dump.

UA swapped a three-class sUA 777 instead of the two-class sCO 764 on the route as soon as possible after the merger because they needed the extra capacity (there have been times where I was unable to get a BusinessFirst seat on CO at any price). F regularly goes out full both to EWR and IAD. US upgraded to a 767 for the front cabin, not to sell a few more tickets in coach.

AA's yields evidently weren't good enough, but that doesn't translate to the entire TATL market.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 99):
If 9W were serious about their BRU scissor hub, they should open more N.A. destinations instead of jamming into this blood bath.

They would have to have the traffic rights first. 9W is an Indian carrier, it doesn't benefit from the Open Skies agreement between Belgium and the US. I believe SFO is the only city 9W has rights to that it doesn't use (until September at least).
 
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IrishAyes
Posts: 2444
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting SN-MD11 (Reply 98):
On the other hand, SN is doing great on the JFK run (both loads and yields wise) and UA is really in good shape in BRU (I'm sure a 4th flight isn't too far now !).

From where? and why? Is the level of demand to BRU surging at a level to justify a 4th flight that could potentially dilute yields?

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 99):
If 9W were serious about their BRU scissor hub, they should open more N.A. destinations instead of jamming into this blood bath.

The underlying logic behind such a move would be to tap into the US-India market, which is already over-saturated with capacity and relatively low-yielding. The Middle Eastern carriers, in particular, have aggressively expanded into this space over the years and offer an advantage over 9W in terms of wider network options.

That being said, I don't think the concept of the scissor hub will ever prove to be viable again for Indian carriers.
 
pesit4a
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:52 pm

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:45 pm

Quoting 135mech (Reply 100):
33 people is not that much when you have to turn a large jet: Rampers, Baggage Handlers, Desk and Gate Clerks, to cover activity and have people there late to cover lost bags etc.

33 people for a daily 757?

Why do you need any of your own rampers, baggage handlers, desk and gate clerks for lost bag people? It's a massive waste of resources for perhaps 3 hours work a day?
You just can't keep a good man down!
 
tomcat
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2000 4:14 am

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:44 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 101):
Again, SN were never part of Oneworld. DL was never part of Qualiflyer, they had an agreement with SR back then but that it is. It is far from what alliances are today.

I respectfully suggest you to check the history of the partnership between DL and SR/SN/OS. It was called Atlantic Excellence and it was a very advanced form of alliance when it was established (1997). The 4 airlines had gained the antitrust immunity and were code-sharing on all their transatlantic flights and had a general agreement on revenue sharing.

SN even went up to operate a daily 743 to CVG.

Some references:
http://www.airlineinfo.com/Sites/Dai...rline/web-content/ostpdf2/4208.pdf
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ce-ends-after-leaders-split-57348/

You're right though that Sabena started code-share only with AA when the Atlantic Excellence was dissolved. It only when SN Brussels Airlines was established in 2002 on the ashes of Sabena that some form of cooperation was established with BA.
 
panamair
Posts: 4367
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:17 pm

Did AA just reverse their decision? As of yesterday, JFK-BRU had been zeroed out for bookings in GDS from 5 Nov on, but today, AA172/171 is available for booking again in November, December, and even into January.....Anyone know what's going on?
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6225
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 107):
Did AA just reverse their decision? As of yesterday, JFK-BRU had been zeroed out for bookings in GDS from 5 Nov on, but today, AA172/171 is available for booking again in November, December, and even into January.....Anyone know what's going on?

Yep, its back in the GDS.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
jbfanone
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:42 pm

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:30 am

Yes, but the HUGE difference is the Joint Venture that AA enjoys today that TWA didn't have. The AA and TWA situations are completely different


Whats the difference......towards the end TWA had discruntled employees about to lose there jobs and now AA has both work grouprs TWA and there own, still discruntled....and aboput to mlose there jobs.... I am not sure AA really got to enjoy any of TWA's fruits.......
 
jbfanone
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:42 pm

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:31 am

Quoting seatback (Reply 94):
Yes, but the HUGE difference is the Joint Venture that AA enjoys today that TWA didn't have. The AA and TWA situations are completely different

Whats the difference......towards the end TWA had discruntled employees about to lose there jobs and now AA has both work grouprs TWA and there own, still discruntled....and aboput to mlose there jobs.... I am not sure AA really got to enjoy any of TWA's fruits.......
 
AAIL86
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:00 am

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:42 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 108):
Yep, its back in the GDS.

So is the station not closing after all?

one wonders how such conflicting messages get sent ( even after working @ AA, I am still amazed sometimes). If the station is indeed not closing - my gut reaction is that someone's decision got overruled by a bigger fish....
" Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness ... Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ” - Mark Twain, 1869
 
seatback
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:00 am

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:01 am

Quoting jbfanone (Reply 110):
Whats the difference......towards the end TWA had discruntled employees about to lose there jobs and now AA has both work grouprs TWA and there own, still discruntled....and aboput to mlose there jobs.... I am not sure AA really got to enjoy any of TWA's fruits.......

I'm not saying there aren't simularities, but again, TWA didn't have a comprehensive JV in place....essentially they were on their own across the Atlantic. AA is not. They revenue share which is huge and will continue to grow.
 
crAAzy
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:02 am

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:42 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 107):
Did AA just reverse their decision? As of yesterday, JFK-BRU had been zeroed out for bookings in GDS from 5 Nov on, but today, AA172/171 is available for booking again in November, December, and even into January.....Anyone know what's going on?

I wonder if this had anything to do with AA negotiating lease rates on it's 757s while in BK?

Maybe they were thinking they weren't going to be able to negotiate an acceptable rate on a piece of equipment but got a good last minute deal.

[Edited 2012-08-16 23:19:51]
 
bralo20
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 9:05 pm

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:54 pm

Airlineroute.net is now also reporting that the route continues:

American Airlines Re-Opens Reservation for New York JFK – Brussels Route on/after Nov 2012

by JL (airlineroute.net)
Update at 1545GMT 17AUG12
American Airlines on Friday (17AUG12) has re-opened reservation for New York JFK – Brussels service, after closing reservation for 3-4 days. Previously the airline closed reservation for flights on/after 06NOV12.
This comes after the airline announced it’s intention to close this route, however original post reported by Airline Route on 14AUG12 is being removed until the airline closes reservation once again.
Schedule:

AA172 JFK1825 – 0755+1BRU 757 D
AA171 BRU1000 – 1240JFK 757 D
 
olddominion727
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:16 pm

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:04 pm

This is a travesty. I can remember when BRU was served from DFW and ORD. Someone is asleep at the helm. This is no longer the airline I knew and loved. I I guess it doesn't really matter if USAir buys them... they are a horrible shell of what they used to be. VERY SAD INDEED!!
 
PITrules
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:27 am

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:42 am

Quoting runway23 (Reply 64):
AA does well in filling the forward cabin on JFK-ZRH and has a pretty good image in Switzerland, being on the market for 25 years now. If anything I was a bit surprised that route never quite made it to a 772 or that AA never gave GVA a chance.

AA did in fact serve GVA in the 1980's. But I agree I'd be very surprised if they pull ZRH, for the reasons you've given.
FLYi
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:43 am

So now, the route is cancelled again (from Nov 6), as we could have expected
http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/23/aa-jfkbru-w12cxldupdate2/
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6183
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:36 pm

What is going on here?

Is it normal for zeroed out flights to bounce back and forth like this?
 
LJ
Posts: 5462
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:51 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 118):
Is it normal for zeroed out flights to bounce back and forth like this?

Yes, it seems to facilitate rebooking the passengers.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4352
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:41 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 119):
Yes, it seems to facilitate rebooking the passengers.

I've seen it done before, but not with a full range of fares as AA did on JFK-BRU. When they re-opened reservations, all fares were available, subject to the usual capacity controls.

In similar situations, other carriers (eg: Jet Airways when cancelling BRU-JFK) re-opened reservations with only full fares (F, C and Y) available to actually discourage purchases.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: AA To Cease Activities At BRU As Of 1 Nov

Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:11 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 116):
Quoting runway23 (Reply 64):
AA does well in filling the forward cabin on JFK-ZRH and has a pretty good image in Switzerland, being on the market for 25 years now. If anything I was a bit surprised that route never quite made it to a 772 or that AA never gave GVA a chance.

AA did in fact serve GVA in the 1980's. But I agree I'd be very surprised if they pull ZRH, for the reasons you've given.

The reference to not giving GVA a chance probably refers to how brief AA's GVA service was, only a few months if memory correct. And it was a tag-on from ZRH, obviously with no local traffic rights, which made it very costly. I flew AA once ORD-ZRH-GVA on a 763 during their brief period of service. I doubt there were 50 passengers on the 30 minute ZRH-GVA sector. AA had several of thse tag-on sectors then which they all dropped as they were no doubt all major money losers.

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