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sbworcs
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 39):
Quoting EI1989 (Reply 38):
My point being I don't think you can make a judgement either way as the full facts aren't available.

Tell that the OP, and other Ryanair bashers.

But to flip the coin there are others that blindly defend FR without the full facts.

If the report is true then this is awful treatment. I have flown FR and did not expect any frills and in terms of inflight service, leg room etc. I knew what I was getting. However, paying low prices does not mean you should be put into a situation which, if the report is correct, could be damaging,
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captainmeeerkat
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 48):
If evidence comes to light that it wasn't Ryanair's fault or that things are being overblown, fine, but at the moment, the story points to them being at fault and history is on the side of that being true.

At last, the true cause of global warming and high temperatures in Eindhoven....Ryanair!  

The story has more holes in it than Swiss cheese as has been pointed out by various people - there was power so it's not cheapo FR saving on fuel, the door was open as can be seen in a video recording, no children actually passed out even though the original article stated that several had. A very unfortunate situation indeed but it is all being blown out of proportion because it is Ryanair - and therefore no facts are needed.  
Quoting sbworcs (Reply 51):
But to flip the coin there are others that blindly defend FR without the full facts.

Look at the temperature in Eindhoven yesterday at boarding time(!), look at the video for the "closed door", check the lights onboard for no power being supplied because FR are too cheap to pay(!), look at the eyewitness accounts that don't contradict themselves(!), look at the number of casualties from the mass dehydration onboard that required medical treatment(!), look at the investigation because this is rated an accident with injury (!)...

Edit: spelling

[Edited 2012-08-20 10:10:51]
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spantax
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 48):
So many unsympathetic people here who should be ashamed of themselves.

Couldn't agree more with you. Incredible to read such inmoral comments here on Airliners.net. Really sad.
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kristiaand
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting captainmeeerkat (Reply 52):
- there was power so it's not cheapo FR saving on fuel, the door was open as can be seen in a video recording,

Fact is that the door was not open, as can be seen on the film. Fact is also that the power-on doesn't say a thing. Cabin lighting and systems are working except the air-conditioning. Which requires input of the APU ( Which is said to be INOP ) or a ACU that can be arranged through the ground handler.
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Asturias
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:25 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 7):

These passengers presumably purchased tickets VOLUNTARILY on Ryanair? And presumably are aware of FR's DEEP DISCOUNT/NO FRILLS philosophy? Sounds like the passengers received the service they voluntarily paid for. Which was not much.

As long as pax voluntarily fly Ryanair, they deserve the dire treatment they get.

Indeed, no frills can mean many things, including but not limited to: inexperienced crew, lower standards and a company policy that reflects that 'no frills' is little else than a 'comodín' or a phrase for 'squeeze every drop of blood from this stone'.

No matter how.

I am constantly surprised how narrow minded people can be, pay a few euros more, and receive so much more with another airline (although bus-service is more apt to describe FR)

Quoting SW733 (Reply 8):
Even if it puts them at serious health risk, which excessive heat for several hours can do? I hardly agree with that. If I were to purchase a ticket on a discount carrier, I would hardly think I deserved a life threatening situation.

I agree with your sentiment, but look at it from FR perspective. Nobody died. Problem? No, end of story.

Thus FR is happy, some pax are annoyed, but alive and FR will claim to the world that they got them from A to B, alive and 'cheap' (whatever that means).

Quoting PITingres (Reply 10):
[email protected] Nobody buys an FR ticket so that they can be abused. If I were flying on Ryanair, I would expect a minimal experience, but I would also expect reasonable attention to health and safety. Ryanair are required to adhere to flight safety standards and I don't see anyone saying "well, you fly Ryanair, you can't expect safe airplanes." Common sense health concerns are no different.

Absolutely, but as FR would be happy to point out: nobody died. So their standards are adequate.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 22):
ANYONE who flies FR, is getting the LOWEST level of service on any airline, and knows it. Like it or lump it.

Indeed, lowest level of service - but almost never the lowest price, certainly never the lowest price all things considered.

But the lowest lever of service anywhere in Europe: that's an FR guarantee.

I have no sympathy for people who complain about FR and yet pay money for the privilege to travel with them. There are other better options, on almost every route in existance, ... and the alternatives to FR are rarely more than a few euros more expensive and lightyears ahead in service, consistency, reliability and safety.
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bhill
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:32 pm

Curious as to what the relative humidity was as well....
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tonyban
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

It's all a part of their sales plan. You get thirsty and buy a drink. Then you purchase those smokeless cigarettes they're always trying to flog followed by newspapers and those wonderful Ryanair lottery tickets that are only good for use with Ryanair. Finally, don't forget to purchase the bus passes which they promise will save 40% over land-side fairs.
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N62NA
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:47 pm

On my many (far too many, but that's for another topic) waits on the tarmac in MIA on a flight bound to delay-prone / over-congested EWR/LGA, AA has ALWAYS kept the air conditioning running while we sat there for the 90 to 120 minutes in the hot Florida sun. It's just common sense.
 
KL577
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting kristiaand (Reply 47):
The flight was FR 3532, STD 13.05 ( LT ) , ATD 17.11 ( LT ).

For the record: the highest temperature recorded by the Dutch Meteorological Service at Eindhoven airport during this interval was 35.0 C (that is the air temperature recorded in the shade!) (www.knmi.nl)
 
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Aesma
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 50):
I thought top DJ's earn many thousands in a single session a night these days and travel by biz jets to their clubs ?

Yeah I doubt he's the kind of DJ clubs charter jets for, but he can still be relatively known without being rich. Then he may have had a gig or invitation from another DJ or something like that at the last minute, and only FR still had seats.
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PITingres
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:12 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 55):
Absolutely, but as FR would be happy to point out: nobody died. So their standards are adequate.

While I get the sarcasm, I hope nobody seriously thinks that "nobody dies" is the standard set by any regulator, whether it be an aviation safety authority or a health authority. I don't pretend to know the facts in this case, but if the inside temps were anywhere near 40 for any length of time, I think that would be an incident of note to the relevant authorities, at the very least.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
WarmNuts
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:17 pm

So far the single nugget of information I've extracted from the 60 posts in this thread is as follows: Capt. Meerkat and kl911 are FRanboyz.

Rarely is it in my 6 1/2 years on a.net that I've seen posters so vehemently defend a POV that is so inherently indefensible based on the information presented.

Your refusal to so much as acknowledge the potentiality for fault and instead to demonstrate a provclivity to actually blame the pax for putting themselves in that situation borders on the absurd. Either of you might consider looking for empiracal data (e.g., historical temperature data) to refute the claim as opposed to relying on ad hominem attempts at invalidation and obfuscation.

[Edited 2012-08-20 12:17:55]

[Edited 2012-08-20 12:18:46]
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 57):
On my many (far too many, but that's for another topic) waits on the tarmac in MIA on a flight bound to delay-prone / over-congested EWR/LGA, AA has ALWAYS kept the air conditioning running while we sat there for the 90 to 120 minutes in the hot Florida sun. It's just common sense.

Yes, but that's the US, where it's almost standard to have an air conditioning unit at or near every gate. This is Europe, where at most smaller airports such as EIN you'll be lucky if there's a single air conditioning unit for the whole airport. In an ideal situation all airports would have plenty of air conditioning units available for aircraft when the APU is not running or broken, but in reality the beancounters step in and will tell you that's way too expensive. "For these few hot days a year? Sorry, not going to happen". For that same reason a lot of airports in Europe don't have proper snow equipment either, that's why a lot of airport operations fail completely when there's 1cm of snow.
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pvjin
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:42 pm

Yea whatever, I wouldn't be surprised if they did this too just to save on costs, seeing FR fuel emergencies lately. I am sure that pilots would turn air conditioning on if they could freely make the decision without being blamed for wasting money by management.
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airproxx
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:50 pm

Quoting holidaycharter (Reply 2):
You pay peanuts you get monkeys

Couldn't have it summed up better... All is said.
If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:56 pm

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 62):
This is Europe, where at most smaller airports such as EIN you'll be lucky if there's a single air conditioning unit for the whole airport. In an ideal situation all airports would have plenty of air conditioning units available for aircraft when the APU is not running or broken, but in reality the beancounters step in and will tell you that's way too expensive. "For these few hot days a year? Sorry, not going to happen". For that same reason a lot of airports in Europe don't have proper snow equipment either, that's why a lot of airport operations fail completely when there's 1cm of snow.

Okay, still people out here blaming FR? Plane on tarmac, APU broken, no ground AC available, and deboarding isnt possible because this small terminal has the few gates already packed with departing pax for other flights.

I just call it bad luck, without blaming anyone, not even the airport for not having a ground AC. Why would they, it hardly ever gets above 25C in The Netherlands.
 
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litz
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:00 pm

My question on this is ... where are the cell phone calls?

I flat-out guarantee you that if an airplane was sitting on the ground in Corpus Christie TX, or Naples FL or some other hot/humid environment w/out AC, the calls to 911 would be all over the evening news.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 65):
Okay, still people out here blaming FR? Plane on tarmac, APU broken, no ground AC available, and deboarding isnt possible because this small terminal has the few gates already packed with departing pax for other flights.

Yes. That kind of threat to health and safety is just not acceptable. If someone had died or suffered serious injury, there is little question that both FR and the airport authority would be liable in the resulting lawsuit. If there is not a sufficient contingency plan to deal with an APU out on a 35 C day -- something that is routine throughout Europe in the summer -- then that is extremely poor planning.

Low cost is OK if it just results in rude service and cramping. It is not legally OK, and shouldn't be, when it threatens health and safety.

And I'm sure deboarding would have been possible. Cramming too many people into a small terminal building is preferable to forcing them to endure 40+ C conditions.

Or, for that matter, start the engines. The fuel bill is certainly preferable to a large damages award.

[Edited 2012-08-20 13:10:53]
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:27 pm

The pax should be happy they were not charged for getting a " Turkish bath"   
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Wisdom
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:45 pm

We don't know the sets of circumstances of this scenario.

Captain decides:
Whatever the reason, a captain should not allow his pax to cook in the tube.
That could require firing up the APU or if unserviceable, even consider the option of towing the aircraft to a remote location and firing up an engine. If you have no information that guarantees that the issue would be resolved within reasonable timeframes (I'm thinking 15 minutes.), then this would be an option.

There is some legal stuff involved in that as the aircraft could be considered dispatched while not meeting MEL requirements, if a tech problem was what was keeping it on the ground. However, the crew could have done it regardless and legally, by stating clearly audibly to the CVR, to the dispatch crews and to as many witnesses as possible (pax), that the aircraft would be towed from its stand and fire up an engine in the interest of the passenger's safety, but that the aircraft should in no way be considered as dispatched. Keeping a ground crew plugged in and the tow truck attached could have been sufficient to keep the aircraft "undispatched".

Depending on local procedures, this could even be done at the parking stand. At airports where there are no airstarters, aircraft equipped with bleed-powered engine starters keep an engine running during the rotation.

Once a replacement aircraft arrived, the aircraft would be towed back to its stand or unloaded with a bus.
A post-flight report would be filed by the crew for abnormal operations and it would end up in a filing cabinet without further issues for the crew.

Airport structures:
The departures terminal at EIN is pretty small. If there were other simultaneous departures, it would not have been an option to stuff the pax in there. Putting the pax in the arrivals hall could have been an option, but crowd control management would have required additional manpower, because in no circumstances should departure pax and get mixed amongst arrival pax. At EIN, they don't enforce this well at all to start with, as you can see boarding pax crossing deboarding pax on the tarmac.

Alternatively, it may have been an option to unload part or all of the pax into airconditioned busses, if the terminal was not an option.



Other comments:
If the air is 38 degrees outside, the air rising from the tarmac on a cloudless afternoon would be no less than 40 degrees. Opening an aircraft door in those circumstances would not offer anything, but it could become a safety and security risk.

Most LCC airports like EIN don't have ACU's available.

Too little information available, but it' still wrong to keep pax prisoners in a sauna.
If you can't help them within a reasonable timeframe, you call a local hotel nearby. If the expected wait time is less than 4-5 hours, consider a conference room instead of hotel rooms. EIN is in the middle of a corporate village, where there are plenty of large conference rooms available, even on Sundays.

[Edited 2012-08-20 15:02:52]
 
ual777
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 27):
Maybe the APU was broken and an external power unit was not yet available?

Then you don't put people on the aircraft PERIOD.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 42):

And if its broken? We dont know the facts. Judging without facts is stupid.

See above.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 43):

But of course FR doesn't pay for gates. And putting people back on the tarmac could be problematic for sure.

Its not that difficult. Bring the stairs back, and offload back into the terminal.

If it was me and the APU doesn't work and there is no ground air, I'm loading more gas, spinning both engines, and turning the packs on. If the packs aren't working (unlikely to have them both out), and we are sitting on the tarmac for more than 10 minutes, people are coming off. If MOL doesn't like it, then he can shove it. If he tries to fire me, then we will go have a talk with the Feds.

Its of course not cost effective, but sometimes you just have to eat it.

The fact that the pilots even let the passengers get into this situation is outrageous. Its very telling that the cockpit door is closed and locked during this ordeal.

If its 34-36C on the tarmac, you will see temps of 40+ in parts of theaircraft if it is sunny.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
krisyyz
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:41 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 16):

I highly doubt people were passing out. Uncomfortable and hot? Yes. Sweating? Maybe. Paasing out? No.

This sounds like a lot of drama from some low brow travellers on cheapskate fares expecting gourmet service. No sympathy.

Granted, we don't know the exact details of this incident, especially the temperature inside the aircraft. But I wouldn't classify ensuring a reasonable temperature and airflow inside an aircraft as "gourmet service", more like basic health and safety measures.

I personally don't care if it is FR, BA, AA, AC, EK or CX, nor does it matter if you paid $1, $100 or $10,000 for your ticket, ensuring the safety and well-being of your customers and staff should be priority number 1 for all airlines. This FR aircraft may have been uncomfortably hot or it could have been so hot as to put people's health in jeopardy, no one seems to know the exact condition on board.

I don't know the consumer rights or the occupational health and safety laws in Europe, but in Canada, there are very clear standards on what temperatures cannot be exceeded. If FR violated safety or consumer laws, I would hope the appropriate regulatory body would take action against them.

There are people who love to hate FR, and there are people who defend FR no matter what the facts are. I would say both approaches are wrong. With FR, you get a seat and a ride from A to B for a very low fare. You get what you pay for, but like I said, basic health and safety measures are non-negotiable and need to be regulated even closer as some airlines/companies push the limit to make a couple of extra $.

I'm not implying the FR is an unsafe airline or that they are putting the safety of their crews and passenger at risk to increase profits, I'm simply stating my opinion and I hold all airlines to the same safety standards.

KrisYYZ
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting ual777 (Reply 70):
Then you don't put people on the aircraft PERIOD.

I don't see why not? Maybe the delay was unknown at the time of boarding?

Quoting ual777 (Reply 70):
If it was me and the APU doesn't work and there is no ground air, I'm loading more gas, spinning both engines, and turning the packs on. If the packs aren't working (unlikely to have them both out), and we are sitting on the tarmac for more than 10 minutes, people are coming off.

Loading more fuel costs more money and is not allowed if you don't have a good reason. Running the engines while still parked on stand? Very likely it's not allowed to do by the airport authorities. Request pushback and taxi to somewhere else is difficult as well, EIN is only a small regional airport, plus if you leave the stand how is the engineer supposed to come onboard and discuss/fix/sign things?

Quoting ual777 (Reply 70):
If MOL doesn't like it, then he can shove it. If he tries to fire me, then we will go have a talk with the Feds.

If MOL doesn't like it he will demote you to first officer in the best case or fire you for insubordination in the worst case because you didn't follow the company policies. It has happened to crews before, so you won't be the first one. Oh, and we don't have Feds in Europe, by the way.  
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:19 pm

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 72):
Loading more fuel costs more money

Paying damages to the family of a dead or seriously ill passenger costs a LOT more money.

I honestly can't believe anyone is trying to defend putting or keeping passengers on an aircraft with no working AC in 35 C shade temperature conditions. If it was 35 C in the shade, it was well over 40 C inside the aircraft.

[Edited 2012-08-20 16:20:04]
 
ual777
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:27 am

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 72):

These points are irrelevant. If the delay was MX related, why is everybody on with the doors closed? The point is the PIC is supposed to make these types of decisions and looking at the pax in the video, keeping them on the aircraft in that condition is unacceptable. Either don't bring them on, or deboard. Even if the airport is small, it's not impossible. If I read the article correctly, the passengers were flown out on another aircraft. With these types of delays it's usually quite easy to guesstimate how long it will take. If its that hot and we need a mechanic, the people are coming off. Period. It'll take 15 min. just to do the paperwork.

Loading more fuel to keep the passengers cool is totally acceptable. If its that hot, the Captain (note the capital C) needs to fix it one way or another.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
YYZAMS
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:48 am

I can't believe some of the comments saying you get what you pay for. Easy for armchair commentators.

The link above isn't working, but here is a link with video in English from Dutch news. Keep in mind that this during a HEAT WAVE it hardly ever gets this hot there and the airplane is at the gate with the DOOR CLOSED! Can you imagine breathing in all that? The smell would set me off. I prob would just puke so I could get off..haha

Link with video:

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1022/Celebs/a...e-vast-in-snikheet-vliegtuig.dhtml

Let me know is it is working.
 
YYZAMS
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:55 am

If you click on the hyperlink in the article I posted it is another video of the police coming. Here is the video:

http://yfrog.com/0qi7jolyztppbfheiyomybgnz
 
MIAspotter
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:01 am

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 48):
So many unsympathetic people here who should be ashamed of themselves. I'd like to see how you feel if you were this scenario and you were getting from people is how "you paid a cheap fare and you deserve everything that's happening to you".

Exactly what I wanted to say, I bet if some of the people here were in that situation they would have been running around like headless chickens saying OMG OMG FR almost got me killed.

I was on a Clickair flight from BCN to ATH back in summer 2009 and there was a 40 minute delay during boarding, we were at a finger gate but the Aircon was not running and the cabin was starting to get pretty hot, the crew inmediately opened all the doors to let air in and it even was announced over the P/A.

No matter if its Full service, LCC or ULCC, a little bit of humanity is still expected and what really pisses me off is that in this case and some other cases involving FR, the crews are not really interested in dealing with the situation accordingly they just want to hide and shield themselves off.

Luckily I as a consumer have a choice and this company will not see any of my money.

MIAspotter.
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BrouAviation
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:42 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):

Happened to me on many airlines. Just bad luck. Besides, this is just a story from a business paper that is anti Ryanair anyway. You get what you pay for.

That is simply not true. This has not happened to you on many airlines.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 33):

Yes, as usual. I agree 100% with you. All fares even this week, middle of holiday season, are not above 80 euro.

What does that have to do with it? How can you even take yourself serious?

Quoting captainmeeerkat (Reply 46):

What time was this particular flight? And what was the actual temperature?

It came close to being the warmest day in the Netherlands in the last 100 years.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 65):
I just call it bad luck, without blaming anyone, not even the airport for not having a ground AC. Why would they, it hardly ever gets above 25C in The Netherlands.

In summer, it very frequently gets hotter than 25C especially at airport platforms in the Netherlands.

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 72):
Loading more fuel costs more money and is not allowed if you don't have a good reason. Running the engines while still parked on stand? Very likely it's not allowed to do by the airport authorities.

How is 50 degrees cabin temp, a broken APU and flying into an airport without proper equipment NOT a good reason to get the AC on?
Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
 
PanHAM
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:44 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 67):
Or, for that matter, start the engines. The fuel bill is certainly preferable to a large damages award.

this is Europe, we do not have damages awards as in the US.

German rail had similar issues last year when aircpo units on ICE trains broke down. This always resulted in emergency crew operations at stations, providing water to the travellers. German rail certainly got billed for that.

I cross read this thread, did FR at all hand out water bottles (free of charge of course) to the passengers? They have an obligation to do us by law, even if the delay is not their fault.

Look at it from every angle, lcc or legancy carrier, the way this was handled by FR is simply not acceptable.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
U2380
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:32 am

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 78):
How is 50 degrees cabin temp, a broken APU and flying into an airport without proper equipment NOT a good reason to get the AC on?

Can you back any of that up at all? You must have been there. Otherwise this seems like an amalgamation of all the rumours from this thread.
 
mozart
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:43 am

I privately wonder what is more scandalous: putting people's health in danger or the extent to which people insult everybody's common sense just to defend Ryanair?

Kudos to MOL for having developed an innovative business model (developed/enhanced, whatever you want to call it). Smart man, smart company, bravo for their success.

But there are limits of health and safety that must be respected. Obviously in this situation that was not the case. That is unacceptable and FR should be sanctioned for it.

As for some other statements, it is unbelievable how ridiculous some of them are.

"When you buy an FR ticket you cannot expect high service levels" - so now it is "a high service level" to have humanly bearable temperatures? It is a "high service level" not to have one's health put in danger? I can accept the statement about service level when it comes to things like quality/amount of food, comfort of seats. But not when it comes to very basic health and safety issues. And by the way, having toilets on board and not needing to pay for them is part of those basic things.

"Nothing happened, no medical assistance was called" - so the deal is that you can put people's health at risk until someone fades out, and only then do you switch on the air condition? And if no one fades out then that is prove for not needing AC?

"People were traveling to a hot destination" - factually bogus because temperatures in a closed airplane cabin baking in the sun with people not able to move and without fresh wind, (and maybe also without water?), etc. is a different story than lazing on the pool in the sun.

"There was electricity, so all was OK" - utter lack of any understanding of how airplanes work. You can switch on the lights and still have the AC off.

"Ryanair's safety standards..." - sure, noone ever died. And let's leave aside things like landing at the wrong airport. But the point that nothing happened in the past does not make it acceptable to take risks now. It's like saying "we have never needed life vests in the past, so let's remove all life vests".

I do agree that people buying very inexpensive tickets should not expect very high service standards. But people can very well expect that their health and safety isn't put at risk. Even if nothing terrible happened, that is not a reason to test the limits.

Shame on Ryanair for this one.
 
rlwynn
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:28 am

I am gald that more and more stuff like this about Ryanair gets put out in public. Hopefully it will make people think twice about who they give their money to.
I can drive faster than you
 
Luxair
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:36 am

I'm honestly more shocked about the comments of the folks defending (absurdly) FR than about the incident itself! I for myself flew FR once in my life but never again. True or partly true, this is unacceptable by any airline to treat people this way! I would have liked to see a story similar to this one in the US. I'm sure that an investigation would have started immediately. I agree 100% with Mozart and all the other ones putting ridiculous comments by A.netters in question.
 
BrouAviation
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:44 am

Quoting U2380 (Reply 80):

Can you back any of that up at all? You must have been there. Otherwise this seems like an amalgamation of all the rumours from this thread.

Back up what? The other poster said starting engines would only be done for a good reason, and I say that a situation like I describe IS a good reason. Now, if the APU wasn't broken or ground equipment WAS available, that makes this situation even more embarassing for Ryanair that they let temps run this high!
I was at an airport in the Netherlands at that time, and with 189 people in such a tiny amount ofn air in full sun around 1300LT, 50C might even be a moderate guess.

It is really sickening how some people hide amongst the low price tag to defend ryanair at-all-costs!
Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
 
JCS
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:55 am

These kind of incidents show the added value of carriers with focus on intelligence rather than commercial waste.

I hope O'Leary's statements against the outside world will finally be paid back by public. Remember that crawling over broken glass will in the end get you hurt ...

Quoting kl911 (Reply 33):
The European consumer would crawl naked over broken glass to get low fares." Michael O'Leary
 
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OA260
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:14 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 68):
The pax should be happy they were not charged for getting a " Turkish bath"   

     

I agree with quite a few of the comments above. Namely two . You get what you pay for so next time buy a ticket on a carrier that provides the product you require. Also even on the most budget of carriers you expect a certain level of customer care and humanity. People should vote with their feet and those that dont play the lotto  
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:27 am

Low cost carrier should have a low limit  
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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skippy777
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:31 am

If you buy a ticket you want to fly Safely.
This is not Safely.

It got nothing to do with the price of a ticket

If the seats are small, fine, If they don't serve food fine, If they charge high prices for drinks fine, If you have to pay to go to he toilet fine ( as long as its clean )

But if you are about to die because of the heat and not turning on the Air Conditioning because of saving fuel, it's a crime.......................
 
PanHAM
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:00 am

What I do not understand is that no one of the passengers called the emergency number for help. It was mentioned earlier that people who leave babies and pets in their cars under such conditions get heavy penalties and fines. Police can smash car windows.

If FR did not supply their passengers with free water and have them sweat in such conditions it is criminal behaviour. The captain would be personally responsible for that and laws are higher than FR company procedures. The airport authorities, and ATC are at fault here as well as they must have had knowledge about the conditions and regardless what the pilot told them, it was their obligation to put an end to this.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
RussianJet
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:03 am

Quoting Skippy777 (Thread starter):
Ryanair is saving money on every thing
Even on turning on the Air-conditioning when passengers past out
Quoting holidaycharter (Reply 2):
You pay peanuts you get monkeys

Sounds like a serious incident, and very unpleasant. I am glad to say that we had a very cool plane with the air on nicely when I boarded FR in about 30 degrees last night though.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
PlaneInsomniac
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:11 am

The thought that really scares me is that the combined brain power of the guys in the cockpit and the cabin crew apparently was unable to find any sort of practical solution to this "intractable problem". These are the people on whose quick thinking and at least rudimentary problem solving abilities everybody's lives depend in case anything goes wrong several miles high up in the air at hundreds of miles per hour. Yet, those same people (some of them highly paid) seem to have been entirely incapable of providing basic environment controls / life support while sitting on the tarmac because of "some difficulties".

Honestly, if slavish adherence to predefined company policies, which were obviously drafted for entirely different circumstances, is all I can expect as passenger from the crew, I have to wonder if it isn't really high time we automate the entire process. Hard to imagine that the outcome could be much worse.
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
Quokkas
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:13 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 89):
What I do not understand is that no one of the passengers called the emergency number for help.

One of the videos shows police on the ground and coming aboard, but it doesn't make clear who called them to attend. Passengers are seen shouting to the police and asking them to come and see the condition of the pax.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
stevenmeyer2005
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:16 am

In a situation like this, would opening the emergency exits be a bad choice?
Steven Meyer
 
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skippy777
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:48 am

They where not told to get off the plane by the cabin crew but the police said get off so everybody got off the plane.

The problem them was that they came in a line for passengers arriving at the airport.
So that had to be checked in again  
 
mozart
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:08 pm

Quoting Skippy777 (Reply 94):
The problem them was that they came in a line for passengers arriving at the airport.
So that had to be checked in again

I wouldn't be surprised if FR charged them again for check-in, luggage, etc.
 
thijs1984
Posts: 128
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:14 pm

This must have been a very poor kind of judgement form the pilots/crew of that particular plane.
i wonder if Ryanair is going to hear them about the situation. I just can't inmagine how they can take such risks.

I was at a dance festival, only a dozen of miles from Eindhoven airport, the day before the incident. And it was so hot during the daytime. The air temperature above sand / tarmac in de sun was around 50 celsius.
 
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skippy777
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:41 pm

Quoting Mozart (Reply 95):
I wouldn't be surprised if FR charged them again for check-in, luggage, etc.

Yes they might have tried that
 
krisyyz
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:42 pm

Ok, after watching the 2 videos of this incident it is obvious to me that the passengers and crew were obviously uncomfortably hot, the children were unwell. The second video clearly show an infant flushed, sweating and in discomfort. I've been a medical first responder for 15 years and based on the short clips, both children seem to be exhibiting signs of dehydration or even heat exhaustion. Giving someone who is suffering from heat illness cola to drink is less than ideal, it would appear from the video that the cabin crew was trying to help the boy in distress, and they seem to be communicating with the flightdeck. I'm even more interested now in finding out exactly what happened. Was the crew following FR company procedure and general health and safety regulations? Who called the police? Who gave the orders to keep the pax on board, the airport, the captain or FR HQ ?

Once all the facts come to light (if they ever do) and it is proven that FR did not act responsibly, I wonder if the hardcore FR supporter admit that this incident wasn't handled correctly.

KrisYYZ
 
MIAspotter
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RE: Ryanair Overheats Passengers At Eindhoven Airport

Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 98):
I wonder if the hardcore FR supporter admit that this incident wasn't handled correctly.

Nope, they will join MOL and turn it into a new free publicity stunt ¨Deals so hot, even our passengers faint¨

Given the opportunity he will do it.

MIAspotter.
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