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Gonzalo
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Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:35 pm

This is what I call a pro-active attitude !!!
Probably not included in the Airline's SOP, but better than a new Swiss 111 ( although apparently they were close to some airports )....what do you think ?

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4550d7da&opt=0

Rgds.

G.
 
BD500
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:10 pm

What is an ADF?
First time I here the english name of the "îles de la Madeleine" (Magdalen Islands)
 
LimaFoxTango
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:18 pm

Quoting BD500 (Reply 1):
What is an ADF?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_d...tomatic_direction_finder_.28ADF.29

The stuff that was around before VOR's. While not common, if not totally obsolete in the US, they are still used in many countries around the world. They are slowly being removed and replaced with VOR or RNAV approaches as they are costly to maintain (even VOR's are being phased out slowly).
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:25 pm

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 2):
The stuff that was around before VOR's. While not common, if not totally obsolete in the US, they are still used in many countries around the world. They are slowly being removed and replaced with VOR or RNAV approaches as they are costly to maintain (even VOR's are being phased out slowly).

You're thinking of an NDB, a ground-based navaid. The ADF is the device on the plane used to sense and track to an NDB.

In the case of the this plane, the crew just had to hop down into the equipment bay and disconnect the receiver. In smaller aircraft, that's not quite as simple.
 
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rikkus67
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:32 pm

Adding to Goldenshields description, this was a response from a reader on AvHerald to the same linked article:

"...An automatic direction finder (ADF) is a marine or aircraft radio-navigation instrument that automatically and continuously displays the relative bearing from the ship or aircraft to a suitable radio station."

Also, way to go Air Transat... you guys sure know how to handle Atlantic emergencies!

[Edited 2012-08-29 16:33:11]
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:09 am

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Probably not included in the Airline's SOP

All smoke SOP's that I've seen include instructing the crew to attempt to identify the source of the smoke and deactivate the system if possible. That sounds like exactly what they did.

Tom.
 
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Gonzalo
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:31 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 5):
All smoke SOP's that I've seen include instructing the crew to attempt to identify the source of the smoke and deactivate the system if possible. That sounds like exactly what they did.

Tom.

Deactivate a system (through a circuit breaker or a switch going off ) or fighting a fire ( with the proper tools ) is one thing, but here we a had a flight crew dismantling an electronic device that is part of the cockpit panel and cutting wires, and unless they had training in this specific tasks, is not a standard procedure. I doubt any airline's SOP encourage the crews to pick screwdrivers and pliers, and starts to happily work on the panels... but well, they solved the problem and that is the most important thing.

Rgds.
G.
 
bomber996
Posts: 536
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:34 am

Sounds to me like there's no more tuning into AM radio broadcasts for that plane. Probably the only thing an ADF is good for today.

Peace   
 
uaord2000
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:56 am

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 6):

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 5):
All smoke SOP's that I've seen include instructing the crew to attempt to identify the source of the smoke and deactivate the system if possible. That sounds like exactly what they did.

Tom.

Deactivate a system (through a circuit breaker or a switch going off ) or fighting a fire ( with the proper tools ) is one thing, but here we a had a flight crew dismantling an electronic device that is part of the cockpit panel and cutting wires, and unless they had training in this specific tasks, is not a standard procedure. I doubt any airline's SOP encourage the crews to pick screwdrivers and pliers, and starts to happily work on the panels... but well, they solved the problem and that is the most important thing.

Standard operating procedure is to fight the fire. The crew did just that.
 
mmedford
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:18 am

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 2):
even VOR's are being phased out slowly

The VORs have an potential end life... but more DMEs are being installed.
 
LimaFoxTango
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:37 am

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 6):
Deactivate a system (through a circuit breaker or a switch going off ) or fighting a fire ( with the proper tools ) is one thing, but here we a had a flight crew dismantling an electronic device that is part of the cockpit panel and cutting wires, and unless they had training in this specific tasks, is not a standard procedure. I doubt any airline's SOP encourage the crews to pick screwdrivers and pliers, and starts to happily work on the panels... but well, they solved the problem and that is the most important thing.

Next time your the captain of a multi-million dollar aircraft and one of your equipment catches fire, I hope you just sit there and let it burn. I think what these guys did is quite commendable and smart thinking.
 
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Gonzalo
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 10):
Next time your the captain of a multi-million dollar aircraft and one of your equipment catches fire, I hope you just sit there and let it burn. I think what these guys did is quite commendable and smart thinking.

I guess we are all Commanders after the battle. I never said the actions they took weren´t smart or adequate for the specific situation they faced, read my first post :

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
This is what I call a pro-active attitude !!!
Probably not included in the Airline's SOP, but better than a new Swiss 111

All I'm saying is that I doubt the SOP could encourage the physical intervention of the cockpit panel dismantling things ( very different to a extinguisher pointed at a fire ).

Rgds.
G
 
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9MMPQ
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:20 am

Let's take it easy. I'm not familiar with the A313 but i've seen enough component removals/replacements to know that with the proper tools it's not an extremely difficult thing.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 6):
but here we a had a flight crew dismantling an electronic device that is part of the cockpit panel and cutting wires,

I highly doubt any wires were cut, more then likely it could just be unplugged after it was sufficiently clear from the panel it was fixed in.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:25 am

Let me guess: One Philips screw to loosen the unit from it´s clamp mount in the panel, pull it out and disconnect a bayonet fitting type electrical plug. Not exactly master level mechanicking.

Jan
 
boeing767mech
Posts: 806
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RE: Crew Dismantle Smoking ADF At FL 360

Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
Let me guess: One Philips screw to loosen the unit from it´s clamp mount in the panel, pull it out and disconnect a bayonet fitting type electrical plug. Not exactly master level mechanicking

Butter knife from the galley. Quarter turn on the fastners and pull, then pull the cannon plug and then all done. Would rather have the pilot do this, and have all the armchair CEO's talk about it, than read about in the new with pictures of griefing families

David

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