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YankeesFan
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Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:45 pm

Will Qantas end SYD-LAX-JFK service because of the partnership between EK and QF? Or will QF end it because of poor loads between the LAX-JFK leg?

[Edited 2012-09-06 15:54:41]
I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
 
flyby519
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:50 pm

I doubt the EK/QF agreement will have much effect on traffic flow between US-Australia.
 
spiritair97
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:28 pm

No chance. Somebody stated that QF's JFK service was partially a prestige thing, and I believe it is too. Not completely, but partially. Plus, the loads may be poor on the JFK-LAX leg, but those loads are probably helping to keep most of their LAX routees alive. Also, it is probably more logical to have the plane flying than sitting at LAX for 12-13 hours.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:36 pm

I can't see any link between QF service to JFK and their alliance with EK for Australia-Europe service. Two totally unrelated markets.
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:05 am

Don't forget that QF probably hauls decent cargo on that leg.
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gothamspotter
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:20 am

SYD-BKK-DXB-JFK is about 5,000 miles and 10 hours longer than SYD-LAX-JFK, so that would suck.
 
YankeesFan
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:34 am

Quoting gothamspotter (Reply 7):
SYD-BKK-DXB-JFK is about 5,000 miles and 10 hours longer than SYD-LAX-JFK, so that would suck.

Or JFK-DXB-SYD?  bouncy 

[Edited 2012-09-06 17:45:07]
I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
 
nomorerjs
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:39 am

If QF moves away from OneWorld, DFW, like JFK, becomes a candidate for the AX!
 
emirates202
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:44 am

Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 8):

I've done it. Only about 3-4 more hours than JFK-LAX-SYD. I didn't mind it, but maybe someone that doesn't love flying would mind. I'd definetly do it again, to anywhere in Aus/NZ. Prefer it to the Pacific route

[Edited 2012-09-06 17:45:20]
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Sydscott
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:46 am

Quoting YankeesFan (Thread starter):
Will Qantas end SYD-LAX-JFK service because of the partnership between EK and QF?

No.

Quoting YankeesFan (Thread starter):
Or will QF end it because of poor loads between the LAX-JFK leg?

No.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 1):
I doubt the EK/QF agreement will have much effect on traffic flow between US-Australia.

Correct.

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 6):
Don't forget that QF probably hauls decent cargo on that leg.

Correct.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
us, the loads may be poor on the JFK-LAX leg, but those loads are probably helping to keep most of their LAX routees alive

Not really. The huge amount of California/Australia O&D plus the comprehensive partnerships with American Airlines plus codeshares with Alaska and US AIrways keep the LAX routes alive. JFK merely links into another AA hub and gives QF a presence in what is a massive business market.
 
YankeesFan
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 9):
If QF moves away from OneWorld, DFW, like JFK, becomes a candidate for the AX!

Probably. NYC-Oceania fails miserably.
I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
 
nomorerjs
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:52 am

DFW is a 1World Star. If QF bolts 1W, DFW is a goner. If QF is giving away Europe, DFW (and the range issues) is a no brainer to cut without AA.
 
flyby519
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:57 am

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 13):
DFW is a 1World Star. If QF bolts 1W, DFW is a goner. If QF is giving away Europe, DFW (and the range issues) is a no brainer to cut without AA.

Seriously?! QF is keeping DFW alive? YGTBSM
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:38 am

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 6):

Don't forget that QF probably hauls decent cargo on that leg.

I pulled the DOT numbers a bit back and posted them. The pax flight does not carry that much. Bulk of QF cargo goes on the freighter.
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jetfuel
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:01 am

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 1):
I doubt the EK/QF agreement will have much effect on traffic flow between US-Australia.

Think about PER-DXB-JFK Dont underestimate the PER market.

Its actually faster on EK via DXB than QF via SYD and LAX
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n471wn
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:09 am

Let us not forget that QF ended SFO service in spite of flying it for 40 years and full flights. QF decisions just make no sense as United now has us all captive on their packed SFO-SYD flights. Let us hope that competition is on the way!!
 
Sydscott
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:03 am

Quoting n471wn (Reply 17):
Let us not forget that QF ended SFO service in spite of flying it for 40 years and full flights

That's because SFO used to be their principal West Coast hub. When it switched to LAX the SFO route was a goner.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 17):
QF decisions just make no sense as United now has us all captive on their packed SFO-SYD flights.

The last time QF dropped SFO, the decision was made to switch the flight to DFW. The very simple question was do we continue a flight 3 or 4 days a week into a competitors key hub or do we switch it into our very close alliance partners mega hub at DFW? DFW won hands down given QF's strategy. I'm sure we'll see SFO again in 2016 when the 789's start to arrive or on Jetstar.
 
laca773
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:25 am

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
Plus, the loads may be poor on the JFK-LAX leg, but those loads are probably helping to keep most of their LAX routees alive.

If this was the case, I don't think QF would have 2 daily SYD nonstops (744, A380), MEL (A380), PER (744) and BNE (744).

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 18):

That's because SFO used to be their principal West Coast hub. When it switched to LAX the SFO route was a goner.

When was this? I never knew of this. I always thought QF's primary connecting point was LAX. Has SFO ever had more than a daily 744 SYD rotation?
 
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EK413
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:31 am

Quoting n471wn (Reply 17):

Let us not forget that QF ended SFO service in spite of flying it for 40 years and full flights. QF decisions just make no sense as United now has us all captive on their packed SFO-SYD flights. Let us hope that competition is on the way!!

40 years come again...???

EK413
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qf002
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:40 am

If QF was planning to cut this flight, they would have done it when they did their AKL-LAX cancelation earlier in the year. Alan Joyce said yesterday that with the EK partnership and the axing of FRA the company had finished its international gateway reorganisation -- I'd say that anything still operating today (or from next April in Europes case) is safe and will form the core long haul network for the next little while...

RE cargo -- this was a big consideration when the route was started from LAX in the late 1990's, but QF has since commenced charter ops to North America via China -- these carry the bulk of the cargo these days. I'm sure they have some freight, but it's probably far more profitable for it to go via dedicated cargo services rather than subsidising a loss making route.

That's not to say I think JFK is loss making -- it just needs to break even to make it a worthwhile operation...

Quoting laca773 (Reply 19):
When was this? I never knew of this. I always thought QF's primary connecting point was LAX. Has SFO ever had more than a daily 744 SYD rotation?

Years ago -- LAX replaced SFO as the principle Pacific gateway in the 80's I believe... But QF's first US services were to SFO, and they connected to LHR via JFK for many years with the 707 as well.

SFO hasn't had daily 744 ops from QF forever (unless there was a brief period from SYD? Certainly when the flight WA canned it was less than daily) -- but that's because it predates the 744 era...
 
Sydscott
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:06 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
Years ago -- LAX replaced SFO as the principle Pacific gateway in the 80's I believe... But QF's first US services were to SFO, and they connected to LHR via JFK for many years with the 707 as well.

Correct.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
SFO hasn't had daily 744 ops from QF forever (unless there was a brief period from SYD? Certainly when the flight WA canned it was less than daily) -- but that's because it predates the 744 era...

QF stated that SFO was profitable but that DFW was a better fit for their alliance feed strategy. That's why I firmly believe we'll see QF back in the market eventually but not until after they've built further frequencies and capacity into DFW.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:20 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
SFO hasn't had daily 744 ops from QF forever (unless there was a brief period from SYD? Certainly when the flight WA canned it was less than daily) -- but that's because it predates the 744 era

Last I was booking travel for upscale folks in San Francisco, I found that the QF tag SFO-YVR-SFO on the 744 was a real hit with those that travelled the route with any frequency, but that was 7 years ago or so. I am sure the YVR tag was cancelled before the SFO route was dropped for good, I think that tag was only run seasonally.
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PI4EVER
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:42 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 20):

I flew QF JFK-SFO-HNL-NAN in August, 1970, with the flight originating in LHR and terminating in MEL, via SYD. I believe one of the first routes using the new 707's was to SFO.
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AussieItaliano
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:12 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 18):
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
Plus, the loads may be poor on the JFK-LAX leg, but those loads are probably helping to keep most of their LAX routees alive.

If this was the case, I don't think QF would have 2 daily SYD nonstops (744, A380), MEL (A380), PER (744) and BNE (744)

QF doesn't fly the 744 from PER-LAX. It doesn't have the range for this route.

Also, remember, even if QF were to leave OneWorld (which I don't think they will), that doesn't necessarily mean that the code share agreement with AA will end. QF and AA can still keep this arrangement in place.

As others have stated, QF made a tactical decision regarding their Australia-Europe services. I personally think that the main reason for it had more to do with wanting one-stop connections to most cities in Europe from most cities in Australia. It was becoming more and more clear that QF couldn't profitably serve several European cities via SIN with its own metal, so QF was left with the choice to have pax connect via LHR and backtrack to continental Europe (via BA), or select another hub between Australia and continental Europe (DXB).

This decision regarding European services has nothing to do with North America. While I'm sure that QF has often weighed its options to maximize profits on North American routes, remember that we're talking about two completely different markets. North America can be served non-stop from Australia, Europe can't. There are several convenient routings via third countries in the Gulf or Southeast Asia when travelling between Europe and Australia, this isn't true between Australia and North America.

As to the JFK flight, I'm sure QF management have often studied the advantages and disadvantages to keeping it or replacing it with an AA codeshare. If, someday, they decide that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages, it'll be cut, but I highly doubt that this will have anything to do with the EK arrangement.
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mogandoCI
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:27 pm

Never understood why running a 5-hour tag on a gas-guzzling 744 with no 5th freedom rights still make sense when your BFF partner offers 10x daily 3-class service
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:33 pm

Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 11):
Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 9):
If QF moves away from OneWorld, DFW, like JFK, becomes a candidate for the AX!

Probably. NYC-Oceania fails miserably.

If QF were smart they would END their JFK service.

Do you have any hard facts to back the assertion that "NYC-Oceana fails miserably" up, or is this just supposition on your part?
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:37 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 1):
Plus, the loads may be poor on the JFK-LAX leg, but those loads are probably helping to keep most of their LAX routees alive

They can just turn the traffic over to AA. Plus SYD-DFW-NYC is a shorter routing than via LAX.
 
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VHTAE
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:52 pm

With the new Qantas and Emirates alliance, Qantas may look into moving from Terminal 7 and join Emirates in Terminal 4.

Regards VH-TAE.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:18 pm

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 27):
They can just turn the traffic over to AA. Plus SYD-DFW-NYC is a shorter routing than via LAX.

They're equal - via LAX is 9963mi / via DFW is 9969 mi

LAX is shorter if you're splitting hairs

Difference is LAX gives you 3-class WB service all the way while DFW-NYC leg is most probably on 38" domestic first + narrowbody
 
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135mech
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:48 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 18):
When was this? I never knew of this. I always thought QF's primary connecting point was LAX. Has SFO ever had more than a daily 744 SYD rotation?
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Qanta...d=39e6875194eaaeb5759472c135b4cd9f
Here's a shot of the last SFO-SYD run of a 744.
135Mech
 
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EK413
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:55 pm

Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 23):

Quoting EK413 (Reply 20):

I flew QF JFK-SFO-HNL-NAN in August, 1970, with the flight originating in LHR and terminating in MEL, via SYD. I believe one of the first routes using the new 707's was to SFO.

Cheers, had me baffled as from my understanding QF have not operated to SFO for 40 years... QF was absent from SFO for a long period of time and reintroduced the route in 2000ish...???

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 25):

Never understood why running a 5-hour tag on a gas-guzzling 744 with no 5th freedom rights still make sense when your BFF partner offers 10x daily 3-class service

You ain't seriously comparing AA product vs QF...

EK413
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qf002
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting AussieItaliano (Reply 24):
QF doesn't fly the 744 from PER-LAX. It doesn't have the range for this route.

And, to be pedantic, BNE is only 6 weekly.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 25):

Not when said partner is flying a rubbish product on the route. The QF passengers flying through to JFK expect far more than what AA offers on their 762's, and the only way to offer a proper international standard of service all the way to JFK has been to fly their own metal.

That might change once AA gets their new A321 fleet/product up and running, but the product would still need to prove itself as an international standard product before QF would be happy to hand their passengers...

Quoting EK413 (Reply 31):
reintroduced the route in 2000ish...???

March 2006. Some brief mention of SFO's signficance to QF is mentioned in the 2006 press release, which can be found here.
 
n729pa
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting emirates202 (Reply 9):
I've done it. Only about 3-4 more hours than JFK-LAX-SYD. I didn't mind it, but maybe someone that doesn't love flying would mind. I'd definetly do it again, to anywhere in Aus/NZ. Prefer it to the Pacific route

Funny I'm thinking about doing LHR-SYD via JFK next year for a change, but the thought of endless hours over the Pacific Ocean could be a bit tedious compared to the Indian Sub Continent/Far East. Good for the QF FF points too!
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:11 pm

Prestige vs profit?

Years ago things were done for presitge...today mainly profit. But, there are some holdovers.

A presence at JFK is likely a holdover that QF sees value in keeping.

If you are an international airline, you are going to fly into LAX and/or JFK. Those are the two biggest population, money, media, and celebrity centers in the US.

The world comes to NYC and QF likely flies the route to be a part of that equation

"They can just turn the traffic over to AA. Plus SYD-DFW-NYC is a shorter routing than via LAX."

Haha. Just thought of that 30 year old MD 80 pulling up to that 50 year old Central Terminal with the leaky roof! Welcome to NYC Aussies!!!!! Not!
 
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United_fan
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:17 pm

With all the AA flights LAX-JFK I wonder why QF needs their own flight? One could say cargo,but with AA's 762's they could manage. Though I wonder about cargo capacity with AA's transcons once the A321's come online.
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
YankeesFan
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:33 pm


Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 26):
Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 11):
Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 9):
If QF moves away from OneWorld, DFW, like JFK, becomes a candidate for the AX!

Probably. NYC-Oceania fails miserably.

If QF were smart they would END their JFK service.

Do you have any hard facts to back the assertion that "NYC-Oceana fails miserably" up, or is this just supposition on your part?
[/quote]
Just supposition because NYC-Oceania routes have not been really successful IMO.


[Edited 2012-09-07 11:34:26]

[Edited 2012-09-07 11:56:14]

[Edited 2012-09-07 11:56:59]
I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
 
YankeesFan
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:58 pm

Quoting n729pa (Reply 33):
Quoting emirates202 (Reply 9):
I've done it. Only about 3-4 more hours than JFK-LAX-SYD. I didn't mind it, but maybe someone that doesn't love flying would mind. I'd definetly do it again, to anywhere in Aus/NZ. Prefer it to the Pacific route

Funny I'm thinking about doing LHR-SYD via JFK next year for a change, but the thought of endless hours over the Pacific Ocean could be a bit tedious compared to the Indian Sub Continent/Far East. Good for the QF FF points too!

Via JFK??? Then it will be LHR-JFK-LAX-SYD. That doesn't make much sense IMO.
I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
 
YankeesFan
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:08 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 32):

That might change once AA gets their new A321 fleet/product up and running, but the product would still need to prove itself as an international standard product before QF would be happy to hand their passengers...

It is an international quality product. The A321s that will be going from JFK-LAX-JFK have 3 classes and 2 of them have lie flat seats while economy is economy. The rest of the domestic fleet will have AVOD and power ports I think. Food? IDK yet but I hope it's good.
I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
 
cargolex
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 36):
Just supposition because NYC-Oceania routes have not been really successful IMO.

But then again, there really haven't been very many of them due to the distance, and if Qantas was really losing tons of cash on it, they'd cut it. I can't recall Ansett or ANZ ever serving JFK, nor have many American carriers tried JFK-Oceania flights since Pan Am. It's not a big market, it requires a heavy, and it's a long way. But it's not nonexistent.

Furthermore, not everybody wants to travel through Dubai.
 
YankeesFan
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:34 pm

Quoting cargolex (Reply 39):
Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 36):
Just supposition because NYC-Oceania routes have not been really successful IMO.

But then again, there really haven't been very many of them due to the distance, and if Qantas was really losing tons of cash on it, they'd cut it. I can't recall Ansett or ANZ ever serving JFK, nor have many American carriers tried JFK-Oceania flights since Pan Am. It's not a big market, it requires a heavy, and it's a long way. But it's not nonexistent.

Furthermore, not everybody wants to travel through Dubai.

That is why Qantas IMO should end it because the market is too small.
I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
 
cargolex
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 40):
That is why Qantas IMO should end it because the market is too small.

Uh-huh. But the flight isn't only about pax load factor. And if Qantas is making money on the flight, why would they end it? They've been flying JFK as a destination long enough now that if it really didn't work, they'd have canned it.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:17 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 22):
I am sure the YVR tag was cancelled before the SFO route was dropped for good, I think that tag was only run seasonally.

That was only for a couple of years starting in 2006 when QF briefly reinstated YVR service on a seasonal basis after dropping YVR several years earlier.

QF had served YVR as a tag-on from SFO for decades previously, starting in the mid-1950s except for a few years in the mid-1970s when they served YVR via PPT (SYD-NAN-PPT-YVR twice-weekly with 707s). After that ended they reverted to the tag-on from SFO once a week but with a 742. Somewhat later they dropped the SFO tag-on and began operating YVR-HNL-Australia before finally dropping YVR, except for the briefly reinstated seasonal SFO tag-on. (The Canada-Australia bilateral restricts stops in the U.S. to SFO and HNL only, for both Australian and Canadian carriers. AC wanted to operate YYZ-LAX-SYD a few years ago but the Australian government refused to change the bilateral to permit the routing via LAX.)

Quoting United_fan (Reply 35):
With all the AA flights LAX-JFK I wonder why QF needs their own flight? One could say cargo,but with AA's 762's they could manage. Though I wonder about cargo capacity with AA's transcons once the A321's come online.

It also permits QF to offer the same service standards all the way, for example no AA "buy-on-board" Y class service, and QF's 744 premium class products are better than AA's domestic product.
 
dcaviation
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:37 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 25):
Never understood why running a 5-hour tag on a gas-guzzling 744 with no 5th freedom rights still make sense when your BFF partner offers 10x daily 3-class service

Qantas doesn't have 5th freedom rights on LAX-JFK. They operate under 8th freedom rights
 
emirates202
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting vhtae (Reply 28):

That could work, since the EK lounge doesn't get busy until 8:15-8:45pm so with their 6:55pm dep to LAX, its possible, but pretty unlikely as they might have OW connections.
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8245
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 40):
That is why Qantas IMO should end it because the market is too small.

Too small according to who? You?

Alan Joyce has said on several occasions that there are no "sacred cows" in the network. The gutting of LHR in March should have made that clear. If this route was loss making (or making a greater loss than the cost of having the aircraft sunbathe in LAX all day) then it would have been cut.

Also don't forget that New York is still a major financial and banking centre. Having (international standard) flights there with lie flat J and full service Y (rather than AA domestic service) is probably helpful in getting corporate contracts on board. After all DL/VA and UA simply cannot compete in terms of equality on NYC-Australia.
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africawings
Posts: 106
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:06 pm

Been reading up on this topic with much interest.

The biggest risk here IMHO is for BA, especially for those travelers like me who simply want to get from point A to point B without having to stop in Dubai.

Wouldn't this be the time to conduct revenue proving flights on a 777LR between Sydney and LHR for BA?.

I understand that the route can be done, so we need to quantify how profitable it really turns out to be, then they can BA can decide on other options
 
Viscount724
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:07 pm

Quoting dcaviation (Reply 43):
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 25):
Never understood why running a 5-hour tag on a gas-guzzling 744 with no 5th freedom rights still make sense when your BFF partner offers 10x daily 3-class service

Qantas doesn't have 5th freedom rights on LAX-JFK. They operate under 8th freedom rights

Sorry, not correct. QF does not have 8th freedom cabotage rights LAX-JFK. If they did they could sell domestic traffic. And LAX-JFK would never be 5th freedom which implies international service.

All QF can do is permit online stopovers at LAX for their own international passengers. That's not 5th or 8th freedom but simply permitted under the terms of the bilateral.
 
YankeesFan
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Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:16 pm

RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 45):
Too small according to who? You?

Alan Joyce has said on several occasions that there are no "sacred cows" in the network. The gutting of LHR in March should have made that clear. If this route was loss making (or making a greater loss than the cost of having the aircraft sunbathe in LAX all day) then it would have been cut.

Also don't forget that New York is still a major financial and banking centre. Having (international standard) flights there with lie flat J and full service Y (rather than AA domestic service) is probably helpful in getting corporate contracts on board. After all DL/VA and UA simply cannot compete in terms of equality on NYC-Australia.

Well tell me the loads from JFK-LAX-SYD then!
I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
 
AussieItaliano
Posts: 344
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RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:24 pm

Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 48):
Well tell me the loads from JFK-LAX-SYD then!

Loads aren't what matter, yields are. A flight can be half-empty and still make money, and likewise, a flight can be full and still lose money.

I'm sure that QF is well aware of the other options available to them, such as putting JFK/LGA passengers on AA metal via LAX/DFW. However, they still continue to serve JFK with their own metal. That should tell us something.
Third Runway - LHR, Second Runway - LGW, Build Them Both!!!
 
YankeesFan
Topic Author
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:16 pm

RE: Will Qantas End JFK Service?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:29 pm

Quoting AussieItaliano (Reply 49):
Loads aren't what matter, yields are. A flight can be half-empty and still make money, and likewise, a flight can be full and still lose money.

Ok... Well what are the yields then?
I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't

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