As a SkyMiles member who resides in Los Angeles I received this email from Delta:



Big Apple bound?

You can fly nonstop from Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) to New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK).

There are nearly 50 opportunities each week to travel to NYC from the City of Angels. Nonstop service from LAX to JFK is available up to 8 times per day.

Plus, book your transcontinental flight in BusinessElite® to enjoy a more comfortable seat, a meal designed by renowned Chef Michael Chiarello and personal in-seat entertainment.

And if you're a Delta Sky Club® member or a BusinessElite traveler1, visit our Clubs at LAX and JFK.

Whether you're traveling for business or pleasure, our service from Los Angeles to New York makes your cross-country journey a breeze.

So, what are you waiting for? Book your ticket today.




With all the chatter on this forum regarding Delta's place in the Los Angeles market, I find this to be interesting. Why the random announcement they fly to New York? How long have they been on the route? This pretty much cements, to me, the sentiment that the airline struggles with LAX originating customers. I fly AA, as they fly the places I go most...and I know a lot of people here that have similar reasons for being with AAdvantage...or MileagePlus. SkyMiles accounts held by my friends and colleagues are usually secondary accounts left over from when they lived in an area where Delta was strong.

I also find it interesting that they're pushing their business class...considering the talk on the thread regarding the need for Delta to compete with UA and AA on the premium JFK-LAX/SFO routes. I wonder if SkyMiles members in San Francisco received the same email blast?

I'm sharing my view here obviously, so I'm sure other people have different experiences...but from what I've gathered from the general population in West L.A.; Delta's brand struggles in Los Angeles, as some have said.

I received the same email regarding San Francisco. Just a guess but maybe they want people to check out their fares and product before choosing another carrier based on price alone. Plus, they are getting the word out. Meaning, you tell your friend about DL when they are thinking about taking that trip to JFK.

Well just as you have pointed out I believe all the points you have said are valid and now DL is trying to reinsert it's self back into the LA market. This email is just a quick and cheapest form of advertisement to get people taking about DL and it seems to have worked. You are taking about it as I'm sure you will with your friends and co workers and many other people will probably do the same. It's probably not going to be a big attention grabber but I'm sure a few people will book tickets. If they repeat the process, stay persistent and start offering a wider and consistent route profile out of LAX they might start winning the clients they have lost since their LAX hub 20+ years ago. They have a long way to go since WN, AA, UA, and now VX are very big airline brands in the LA area.

[Edited 2012-09-13 20:52:16]

I received that same email today and thought of it as a little odd, but nothing new except the chef, Michael Chiarello.

I had no idea Michael Chiarello is creating these meals for Businesselite U.S.

So, it's a little informative, perhaps.


I'm still happy with Delta here in Los Angeles. =]

What's truely embarrassing is that if you fly this route you get a complimentary pass to Sky Lounge but if you fly to Hawaii you don't. Even worse if you fly this route you get IFE in your seat but if you go to Hawaii you get stuck on an old nasty 757-200 where the FA has to adjust the tracking on the VHS tape every 10 minutes with the retro monitors hanging from the ceiling.

DL service to Hawaii is truely appauling... I just did it last week to OGG. What is so special about JFK??

The money is what's special.

NS

Quoting netjetandy (Reply 5):

lol well they put the "old nasty 757s" on the lowest yielding routes. Should they fly them to BRU? And I wouldn't call them nasty. I flew in HA to PDX on their 763 and it was worst than any DL 76 I've seen lately.
All this is, is a cheap form of marketing to reach to their FFs. They obviously want to do better.

To me it seems like a regular marketing email. Maybe DL currently has a campaign running that is centered around selling tickets for JFK bound flights. Judging by the fact that travelers around SFO are receiving these tailored messages as well, LA FFs aren't being singled out.

Airlines often use DMAs and other forms of flyer segmentation to geo-target and market products - nothing new really. I don't think it's as random as you say. Each marketing push/campaign is done for one reason or another.

Aeroflot777

Some of this could be a result of United switching the ps birds from the 3 class to the new 2 class configuration on at least 2 fights per day.

Quoting netjetandy (Reply 5): What's truely embarrassing is that if you fly this route you get a complimentary pass to Sky Lounge but if you fly to Hawaii you don't. Even worse if you fly this route you get IFE in your seat but if you go to Hawaii you get stuck on an old nasty 757-200 where the FA has to adjust the tracking on the VHS tape every 10 minutes with the retro monitors hanging from the ceiling.

The same reason why UA has P.S. ONLY on JFK-LAX/SFO. The same reason why AA has dedicated 3-class service on JFK-LAX/SFO. It is a very special market... Everyone wants to get to HI for the cheap so there you go...

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 8): To me it seems like a regular marketing email. Maybe DL currently has a campaign running that is centered around selling tickets for JFK bound flights. Judging by the fact that travelers around SFO are receiving these tailored messages as well, LA FFs aren't being singled out.

NYC is Delta}s big push right now. Keep Climbing debuted in 2010 around the NC market. Every time a enw commercial comes out (new one coming out within days if not already), there is a separate, special NYC centric or "themed" commerical. Whoever they paid for KEep Climbing has earned/is earning every penny. Its very clean, to the point, and consistent. You cant go ANYWHERE in New York now without seeind the D E L T A or Keep Climbing brand on it.

I dont think people realize how expensive such marketing initiatizes are. I am glad that they kept things in focus; and its paid off.

I get emails from United reminding me they fly to Chicago all the time

Dur.

NS

LOL only on a.net would a simple marketing email warrant so much discussion. I think they're just trying to bolster their presence in JFK (and LAX.) It's an extremely competitive market. That's my complex take on it  

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 12): LOL only on a.net would a simple marketing email warrant so much discussion. I think they're just trying to bolster their presence in JFK (and LAX.) It's an extremely competitive market. That's my complex take on it

Well, it seemed to do the job to say the least!!

Just to add my 2 cents

To netjetandy: Almost exactly a year ago I took the LAX-OGG flight and agree. It is about the worst domestic flight I have ever been on. Leg room...none, overhead screens with a green tint while a bad tape of the somewhat o.k. Woody Allen Midnight in Paris looped. The flight was intolerable, never again. Right up there with my Uzbek Air TU154 flight in 2010 for horrid equipment. At least the Uzbek flight was on a new type for me and only an hour.

And at least last year due to a snafu on DLs part, I got bumped to the front of the plane JFK to LAX and was equally horrified at what they called First on such a premium heavy segment. Wow, shocked at the poor cabin condition, seat was just plain bad, service was decent, food was subpar, though, filthy windows to look out of (757 equip)

That said, I haver otherwise been pretty satisfied with DL, my flight 6 months ago LAX-Haneda and return was excellent save the absolute crap way customs is arranged these days with the new Bradley construction and all certainly not DLs fault.

any DL LAX Hawaii routes are on my personal blacklist...never again. I think they use the ex-ATA birds on those routes in torture charter config.

Why is there always such negativity about DL's LAX-JFK service? I find AA's P/J and UA's P/J service to be horrible. DL is really making an effort with the service and catering. They have gone above and beyond with it and hope they are winning some people over who actually have to pay for their seats instead of having to fly AA/UA because of contractual agreements period. There are some great reviews of the service on flyertalk and one of the pickiest flyers wrote up one of his best domestic reviews of their transcon BizElite service while showing no shame for their typical F service.
BTW, these flights are very, very difficult to get upgraded on.

For the other's who choose to fly DL to OGG/HNL/KOA, you know what you're going to get. UA/AA/DL are all pretty much the same period. If you want excellent service, pay for it and fly HA or AS!

Quoting netjetandy (Reply 5): What's truely embarrassing is that if you fly this route you get a complimentary pass to Sky Lounge but if you fly to Hawaii you don't. Even worse if you fly this route you get IFE in your seat but if you go to Hawaii you get stuck on an old nasty 757-200 where the FA has to adjust the tracking on the VHS tape every 10 minutes with the retro monitors hanging from the ceiling. DL service to Hawaii is truely appauling... I just did it last week to OGG. What is so special about JFK??

One route is the among the biggest business routes in the world with lots of frequency-sensitive folks ready to pay up a high fare to fly exactly when they need and not 2 hours later (with good competition too), the other is full of the same people going on vacation using their miles gathered on ..... JFK-LAX, for instance. This is the reason why DTW-HNL on these really nice A330s got axed. Full cabin, but rock bottom fares = no profit = better allocate some of their nicest a/c to other routes where there is more profit to be potentially made.

Old worn out planes to Hawaii, yeah well, DL does fly some of those above the Atlantic as well (notably, these infamous 763), on quite longer flights, to places where competition and/or yields are low.

DL has a good presence in LA. I think they are the official airline of LA live, similar to what they've done here at MSG in NYC.

That's said, UA doesn't even have to try and they'll get LA customers in droves. Angelenos are hypnotized at this point to fly either WN, AA, or UA. DL comes as a strong secondary.

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 4): I had no idea Michael Chiarello is creating these meals for Businesselite U.S.

Yup! For about a year now Michael Chiarello has been doing the domestic BE menus. The menu also pairs with Andrea Robinson's wine selections. Nice!

Quoting timpdx (Reply 14): overhead screens with a green tint while a bad tape of the somewhat o.k. Woody Allen Midnight in Paris looped.

The good news: those are all being replaced with new LCD screens. Within a couple years all a/c with IFE will be converted to (or delivered with) the Panasonic x2 (like the system being installed on the 74S).

Quoting timpdx (Reply 14): I think they use the ex-ATA birds on those routes in torture charter config.

There are no a/c on DL's scheduled route system in a "charter configuration."

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 10): The same reason why UA has P.S. ONLY on JFK-LAX/SFO. The same reason why AA has dedicated 3-class service on JFK-LAX/SFO. It is a very special market...

AA has been #1 in those markets, especially JFK-LAX, for decades. And they still have the highest frequency (although DL is just one behind after fairly recent increases). And on a 5 to 6 hour flight I would much prefer a 2-3-2 AA 762 in Y class with only a 1 in 7 chance of a middle seat compared to 1 in 3 on all other carriers' narrowbodies.

Current departure times JFK-LAX-JFK. Total 34 daily nonstops in each direction:

Westbound:
AA (762) - 9 (0650, 0900, 1030, 1200, 1345, 1545, 1655, 1915, 2055)
DL (752) - 8 (0700, 0900, 1100, 1300, 1500, 1700, 1900, 2100)
UA (752) - 6 (0640, 0830, 1130, 1540, 1753, 2108)
VX (320) - 6 (0705, 0915, 1130, 1325, 1655, 2000)
B6 (320) - 5 (0700, 0945, 1215, 1620, 2050)

Eastbound (same aircraft types):
AA - 0700, 0800, 0930, 1100, 1320, 1500, 1615, 2115, 2335
DL - 0630, 0730, 0900, 1100, 1300, 1600, 2130, 2330
UA - 0630, 0800, 1140, 1334, 1627, 2242
VX - 0735, 1040, 1340, 1540, 2120, 2345
B6 - 0700, 1035, 1335, 1600, 2045

.

[Edited 2012-09-14 09:50:09]

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20): And on a 5 to 6 hour flight I would much prefer a 2-3-2 AA 762 in Y class with only a 1 in 7 chance of a middle seat compared to 1 in 3 on all other carriers' narrowbodies.

  

Best marketing ploy for those who know. I can not answer for you but about 2.5 to 3hrs in a narrow-body an Okie is ready to make an escape.

Okie

NYC is deltas big push right now......they want to advertise

DL is a big player on the JFK-LAX market its just mostly coach and lower end mass volume. Nothing wrong with that they have a great product in business elite for a smaller amount of people and international connections dont want to mess with ua/aa dominance among premium passengers on the route. Nothing wrong with that and maybe the most profitable (for them) and keeping everyone happy.

Quoting timpdx (Reply 14): And at least last year due to a snafu on DLs part, I got bumped to the front of the plane JFK to LAX and was equally horrified at what they called First on such a premium heavy segment. Wow, shocked at the poor cabin condition, seat was just plain bad, service was decent, food was subpar, though, filthy windows to look out of (757 equip)

LOL LOL I didnt realize this:


View Large View Medium

Photo © Agustin Anaya


Was so bad. The biggest complaint I usually hear on here is that they}re not flatbed. In fact, theyve made improvements since this picture. Zooming in you will notice that the Y seats are plain but they have since added winged headrests to all the 75Es.

Quoting timpdx (Reply 14): any DL LAX Hawaii routes are on my personal blacklist...never again. I think they use the ex-ATA birds on those routes in torture charter config.

Wrong. The 757s flying to OGG and KOA are among the LEAST DENSE in the ENTIRE fleet at 22F 153Y; compared to 26F 158Y on the 75X (PTVs), 24F 156Y on the standard PMDL 757s (overhead LCD monitors) 22F 160Y on PMNW 757s. When you wanna complain about something, you just will. Its human nature and the mind will play dirty tricks on you based on perception but those are the facts. Like how everyone things the 757 is roomier than the 737.

But to be more accurate, you{re blacklist should be LAX-KOA/OGG if thats the case. They use a combination of 767-300s with PTVs and 753 ex LAX-HNL.

And the front cabin of the 75Vs



The most comfortable in the domestic fleet (minus the 75Es on JFK-LAX/SFO) due to the adjustable headrests and foot rest (not found on any other a/c).

[Edited 2012-09-14 12:45:03]

Quoting B727FA (Reply 19): For about a year now Michael Chiarello has been doing the domestic BE menus.

The Michael Chiarello meals (lunch/dinner) on DL's JFK-LAX/SFO flights are hands down the best domestic meal of any airline today, and easily one of the top three or five airline meals I have had internationally.
This is coming from someone who eats A LOT of airline food both domestically and internationally! LOL!

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 10): NYC is Delta}s big push right now. Keep Climbing debuted in 2010 around the NC market. Every time a enw commercial comes out (new one coming out within days if not already), there is a separate, special NYC centric or "themed" commerical. Whoever they paid for KEep Climbing has earned/is earning every penny. Its very clean, to the point, and consistent. You cant go ANYWHERE in New York now without seeind the D E L T A or Keep Climbing brand on it.

They just released the latest NYC-centric ad, focusing on the LGA hub naturally:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ZDguUdki0

And here's a vid of a recent Delta event at the NY Stock Exchange:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpFv1VVhJDM&feature=relmfu

And on the Left Coast, Delta's participation in the recent LA Food and Wine Festival:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnAqVlM6Yx4&feature=relmfu

Quoting panamair (Reply 24):

And here}s "Up" the national version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwKkqpvNbCg&feature=relmfu

[quote=panamair,reply=24]And here's a vid of a recent Delta event at the NY Stock Exchange:

Hadnt seen this one. I notice quite a few old friends that worked the ramp with me back in the day that transfered to in-flight in 2010. We all transfered to different departments that year with the big hiring.

But what you posted brings me to another point. I think this time around, DL is in some ways taking its time with SoCal; LAX in particular. To try and run two very big, but equally important national campaigns at the same time Im not sure would have been very wise. So yes, NYC is in the spotlight right now but I think they are gearing up for something just as big in LA down the road. Like I said previously, these things are very expensive and I think they decided to focus most of their marketing money into NYC first.

[Edited 2012-09-14 12:42:21]

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20): Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 10): The same reason why UA has P.S. ONLY on JFK-LAX/SFO. The same reason why AA has dedicated 3-class service on JFK-LAX/SFO. It is a very special market... AA has been #1 in those markets, especially JFK-LAX, for decades.

Only to LAX is their JFK-only market share a strong #1. On JFK-SFO, all 3 legacies are rather close (but i think UA has the upper hand on SFO-originating pax).

If you view it as NYC-LAX/SFO, then UA is #1 in both by far.

Quoting okie (Reply 21): Best marketing ploy for those who know. I can not answer for you but about 2.5 to 3hrs in a narrow-body an Okie is ready to make an escape.

Then what will you do when AA will start deploying A321s on JFK-LAX?

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 10): hoever they paid for KEep Climbing has earned/is earning every penny. Its very clean, to the point, and consistent. You cant go ANYWHERE in New York now without seeind the D E L T A or Keep Climbing brand on it.

You can thank Wieden+Kennedy NY for that wonderful creative.  

Quoting laca773 (Reply 15): For the other's who choose to fly DL to OGG/HNL/KOA, you know what you're going to get. UA/AA/DL are all pretty much the same period. If you want excellent service, pay for it and fly HA or AS

LAX-HNL still has one 767-300etops equipment daily soon to be an ER aircraft with ptv's...

Quoting timpdx (Reply 14): any DL LAX Hawaii routes are on my personal blacklist...never again. I think they use the ex-ATA birds on those routes in torture charter config

Yes unfortunately DL has these old ATA birds which i definitely hate,but since EC was put in i usually get those seats on most segments and it makes a big difference,I really hope down the line DL will use the 739ER on the transatlantic routes and pull the ex-TWA birds for the Hawaii operation...

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 31): Yes unfortunately DL has these old ATA birds which i definitely hate,but since EC was put in i usually get those seats on most segments and it makes a big difference,I really hope down the line DL will use the 739ER on the transatlantic routes and pull the ex-TWA birds for the Hawaii operation...

Thats not going to happpen. 739ERs can't do TATL. They can easily use 753s to Hawaii.

Really are those 757s that bad??? Plus you are going to Hawaii for goodness sakes.

Quoting LJ (Reply 29): Then what will you do when AA will start deploying A321s on JFK-LAX?

Take Amtrak, of course.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11): I get emails from United reminding me they fly to Chicago all the time Dur.

Holy carp!! Really? Since when?   

Dur.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 32): Really are those 757s that bad??? Plus you are going to Hawaii for goodness sakes

Yes they are ive been on pretty much all 757versions on DL and they are the worse for that length of flight..Im also from the Kona area so I'm on these birds quite often...

Quoting panamair (Reply 24): The Michael Chiarello meals (lunch/dinner) on DL's JFK-LAX/SFO flights are hands down the best domestic meal of any airline today, and easily one of the top three or five airline meals I have had internationally. This is coming from someone who eats A LOT of airline food both domestically and internationally! LOL!

   ! And they are offering some nice BOB options you can purchase online as well in Y.

DL being official airline of LA live can get them some additional brand recognition in the market, but maybe a consistent presence would reinforce the brand more. Otherwise LA live attendees will see Delta and think Atlanta and maybe SLC.

Also on a thread a couple years ago there was a mention of the DL FF base in Southern CA, but a lot for DL or any airline may be those like me that got the account from a flight not in our usual pattern.

Just yesterday I got this in an email from UA:

"Fly United to San Francisco, California, from cities including Paris and Taipei. Discover one of the world's most popular destinations, famous for its cable cars, waterfront seafood restaurants and the iconic Golden Gate Bridge."

On the basis that I live in neither Paris or Taipei this clearly isn't as focussed as the DL campaign, but at the same time it shows that these are fairly routine

Quoting timaay419 (Thread starter): As a SkyMiles member who resides in Los Angeles I received this email from Delta: Big Apple bound? You can fly nonstop from Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) to New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK).

Pretty much anything the airlines spends effort promoting or putting on fare sale is not doing "well". What we don't know is if it is doing poorly for a short period of time or a long period of time. Generally the fare level is the best way to determine that. The cheaper, the poorer...

Quoting enilria (Reply 39): Pretty much anything the airlines spends effort promoting or putting on fare sale is not doing "well".

So Delta billboards in Atlanta are there because they are not doing well there? I think we're really reading into this too much.

Sorry, inrespose to the replies to my thread, but domestic DL Y is pretty lame when you flown up front on EY, OZ and MH. Yeah, tough competition, but the regulars in the front of the plane have almost certainly done time on a foreign carrier, and will have noticed the difference. The front on the 757 was just tired, sorry, lotsa room but not much else. And The 757 to OGG inthe back of the plane is still the worst RT I have done in recent memory domestic, won't do that again. I like DL, I have nothing against them at all, I am Silver, I got A DL Amex, I have lots of miles still. but I have found the hard and soft product pretty lame compared to what I have flown elsewhere. That said, I also just booked a LAX JFK RT on, you guessed it, Delta.

If I had gotten this e-mail I probably would have been a little miffed. If a LAX-based SkyMiler doesn't know DL's prime LAX route, they never will. That's just a strange advertisement.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 19): The good news: those are all being replaced with new LCD screens.

The issue is the ancient VHS players. On one 75V flight we nearly had to delay takeoff because the FAs couldn't get the safety video to play right. I don't know if that's part of the LCD change, but it has to be in order for there to be a significant improvement.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 32): Really are those 757s that bad??? Plus you are going to Hawaii for goodness sakes.

Yes. It's arguably the worst domestic economy product in the country. Other carriers give high-yielding Hawaii customers a decent product in economy, so it's an easy decision for those in the know.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 42): Yes. It's arguably the worst domestic economy product in the country. Other carriers give high-yielding Hawaii customers a decent product in economy, so it's an easy decision for those in the know.

It's no worse than AA and UA.
There's nothing high yielding about Hawaii period. Isn't it true that DL swung the axe on MSP-HNL?? Talk about low yield...

Quoting timpdx (Reply 41):

Not sure where you are going with this but what does EY, OZ, and MH have to do with the Y product on a DL domestic flight. First you are comparing international product to a domestic one and even if we were talking about international I don't think that either of those 3 airlines have a single flight that competes with a DL flight on same city pairs. DL competes with AA, UA, HA, AS, and US for pax from the mainland to the islands and AA, UA, B6, and VX on domestic transcons, bringing in any other international carrier into the conversation is pointless. Until the time EY, OZ, and MH start flying LAX-JFK and LAX-OGG i don't think that DL or any other domestic airline has anything to worry about.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 15): his is the reason why DTW-HNL on these really nice A330s got axed. Full cabin, but rock bottom fares = no profit = better allocate some of their nicest a/c to other routes where there is more profit to be potentially made.

I can still get an A330 from ATL-HNL. I don't believe yields are junk because I can fly OKC-ATL-HNL-ATL-OKC for $3926 and OKC-ATL-LHR-ATL-OKC for $4492, which is pretty close.....

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 21): Like how everyone things the 757 is roomier than the 737.

Off topic, but I have to say, the 757 cabin floor sits a little higher than the 737 cabin floor does which gives you more shoulder room making it feel larger than a 737. same way a crj-700/900 feels larger than the crj-200 even though they're still the same fuselage circumference.

Sorry to hijack this so much about the Hawaii bit but I fly ATL-OGG via LAX a couple times a year and I've never paid less than $2200 for the front cabin. I do not consider that "rock bottom" ,,in fact I am confident LAX-NYC is about the same (probably less) and you're not coming in from an overnight flight landing at 6:00 am with the first flight to Atlanta at 8:30 and they won't even let you in the SkyLounge but if I'm going to NYC on a full nights rest they will.

That was my point..does not make sense! Just dumb. With that said though it's always nice to ride the 777 service that ferries from LAX-ATL at 9:30 that comes in from Sydney. That makes up for it a little bit.. BUT even that aircraft doesn't have Gogo because it's configured as an International ship only.

DL really needs to work on consistency on these old birds

[Edited 2012-09-16 21:10:59]