[email protected]
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Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:59 am

BE is to stop LGW-ABZ from 28th Oct. At present, BE operates about 1,700 seats on 19 flights per week between the two airports aboard 88-seat 175s.

Following BE's cessation of LGW-ABZ, EZY will become the sole operator on the route.

The withdrawal of BE from the route has implications on the wider LON-ABZ-LON, with around 1m passengers carried in 2011, which will see the number of operators contract from four (BA, BD, EZY, BE) to two (BA and EZY) in less than a year.

Source: www.flybe.com and
http://news.stv.tv/north/189115-flyb...n-aberdeen-and-gatwick-next-month/
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bmibaby737
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:30 am

Flybe is starting to move into more European leisure flying & is looking for more contract flying, too. They've already announced the addition of Barcelona and the return of Nice from Exeter. Nantes has moved to Southampton from London Gatwick.

The company is losing too much money and has axed a number of routes recently. Four Q400 aircraft will be wfu this winter and parked. I wouldn't be surprised to see some more reductions at London Gatwick, considering how much it costs the airline to land/depart there each time.

The following routes have been axed this year that I can remember:

Manchester to Brussels
Southampton to Brussels, Frankfurt, Isle of Man & Tours
Birmingham to Hamburg,
Gatwick to Nantes, Aberdeen

[Edited 2012-09-14 01:36:15]
 
raffik
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:03 am

Wasn't Gatwick - Leeds also axed too?
I must admit that I've only flown with them a few times because when I've looked, their fares have seemed uncompetitive. Being a business at the end of the day, they need to fly where there is money. If the Aberdeen route is not bringing them in enough, and they can deploy those aircraft to a more lucrative destination, that's what they need to do.
Aberdeen is lucky that it still has an Easyjet service though.
- Alec
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:25 am

Flybe should have moved all their London operations between Luton/Southend a long time ago and saved a whole lot of money.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:24 am

Giancava if that were all that mattered BA would be bases at Stansted! It's necessary to fly where the market demands as well as have a good deal. BA 's entry into LCY-ABZ would also be having an impact.
 
Liverpoola380
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:17 pm

BA will no longer have a codeshare on this route I presume?
 
vv701
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Thread starter):
The withdrawal of BE from the route has implications on the wider LON-ABZ-LON, with around 1m passengers carried in 2011, which will see the number of operators contract from four (BA, BD, EZY, BE) to two (BA and EZY) in less than a year.

This number of operatore may well increase to three as some of the LHR slots that BA is surrendering to satisfy the competition authorities following their merger with BD are required to be used for flights between LHR and EDI and/or ABZ for the following three years.

I think it unlikely that BE will be applying for these slots. But who knows? Perhaps they are hoping not to serve ABZ from LON just for the winter season. They are certainly in a better position to replace the bmi Regional 50 seat EMB 145s currently operating in those slots than are VS with their planned small fleet of 319s that will carry up to around 130 passengers. Or we might see the new owners of bmi Regional bidding for some ABZ-LHR slots that they are still operating on behalf of BA..
 
anstar
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting vv701 (Reply 6):
They are certainly in a better position to replace the bmi Regional 50 seat EMB 145s currently operating in those slots than are VS with their planned small fleet of 319s that will carry up to around 130 passengers

But VS will also be aiming for a lot of connecting traffic to boost their LHR flights... so its not just O&D like FlyBe and EZY.
 
CrossChecked
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:55 pm

I wonder what will happen to the FlyBe staff based in Aberdeen who worked, exclusively, the ABZ-LGW routes....?

There are still the Loganair staff who fly under the FlyBe brand but the LGW staff were FlyBe proper.

I hope their jobs will be, I don't know, somehow saved?!
Cabin crew, doors to manual and cross check.
 
TC957
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:43 pm

I would expect easyJet to have an extra rotation or two a day LGW - ABZ this winter on account of Flybe pulling out. I also often wondered if LGW - LPL is worth a try with a twice-daily Q400 service, no direct competition from anyone.
 
mainMAN
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:55 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 9):
I also often wondered if LGW - LPL is worth a try with a twice-daily Q400 service, no direct competition from anyone.

Good point. MAN - LGW is apparently much less of a connecting service (for BA), and more O&D so this should be true for LPL too.
 
Captaindoony
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:35 am

It is worth noting that on ABZ-LGW, EZY carried about 110k pax out of 175k from June11-June12.

That's 13 weekly completely battering BE on the route and I've seen those planes with 30 odd pax funnelling out on a regular basis.

With increased competition on their main route and GIP wanting rid of any sub 100 seaters I would say a total departure from LGW for BE is imminent.
 
sam1987
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:00 pm

BE axing LGW-ABZ must be a direct result of easyJet's growth on the route and the high fees for small aircraft at LGW.

It's a shame because it will be a lot more difficult to fly from LGW to the Highlands and Islands (Shetland, Orkney etc) - at the minute you can buy one ticket on BE and your bags are tagged all the way there. I don't think the connections from INV are as good.

Quoting bmibaby737 (Reply 1):
Nantes has moved to Southampton from London Gatwick.

They're really reducing their operation at LGW then...

Quoting raffik (Reply 2):
Wasn't Gatwick - Leeds also axed too?

LGW-LBA was operated from June 2009 to March 2011. Don't forget LHR-LBA restarts in December this year.

Quoting bmibaby737 (Reply 1):
I wouldn't be surprised to see some more reductions at London Gatwick, considering how much it costs the airline to land/depart there
Quoting CaptainDoony (Reply 11):
I would say a total departure from LGW for BE is imminent.

I'm not sure, as they provide some key routes from LGW to GCI, NQY and NCL, all of which have no competition. They are soon to be joined by easyJet on LGW-IOM so that may be the next route to go.
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
jrn216
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting sam1987 (Reply 12):
I'm not sure, as they provide some key routes from LGW to GCI, NQY and NCL, all of which have no competition

Guernsey is served by Aurigny who I think have over 50% of the market to Gatwick and naturally a strong local customer base, but the market can easily support competition.

I tend to agree that if Flybe cannot make a key London route from the Channel Islands work, with a good mix of business and leisure traffic - basically life-line routes - then there is not much hope for the airline at all. Jersey carries altogether around 570,000 passengers a year, Guernsey 350,000. Much depends on Gatwick's fees, but I can't imagine a situation where Flybe pullout completely.

Having said that, if EasyJet was to begin Gatwick-Jersey, I think it would really shake things up between British Airways and Flybe.
 
ScottishDavie
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:54 am

Quoting sam1987 (Reply 12):
BE axing LGW-ABZ must be a direct result of easyJet's growth on the route and the high fees for small aircraft at LGW.

It may also have something to do with their unreliability and the strange tendency of their aircraft to go tech when the load factor is poor and there just happens to be enough accommodation for the pax on a later flight. I speak from experience although not on the ABZ-LGW route. If I have a choice between BE and U2 it's U2 every time. Not only will they be cheaper but there is a much greater chance of getting to my destination at or close to the scheduled time

[Edited 2012-09-16 02:01:16]
 
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GCT64
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:04 am

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 14):
Quoting sam1987 (Reply 12):BE axing LGW-ABZ must be a direct result of easyJet's growth on the route and the high fees for small aircraft at LGW.
It may also have something to do with their unreliability and the strange tendency of their aircraft to go tech when the load factor is poor and there just happens to be enough accommodation for the pax on a later flight. I speak from experience. If I have a choice between BE and U2 it's U2 every time. Not only will they be cheaper but there is a much greater chance of getting to my destination at or close to the scheduled time

Surely this is just a reflection of how a smaller plane (with higher CASM) can not compete with a fairly frequent EZY service - not really that surprising. FlyBe has to survive alongside EZY and FR and so will need to concentrate on routes that avoid direct competition.

And I too have noticed the correlation between load factor and flight cancellation - flying through EDI a lot, it is noticeable that FlyBe cancels a lot of flights (c.f. the other major airlines there).
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
ScottishDavie
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:12 am

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 15):
FlyBe has to survive alongside EZY and FR and so will need to concentrate on routes that avoid direct competition.

Heaven help the poor pax! If you go on to Skytrax and read the comments from people who have the misfortune to depend on routes where BE has no competition (particularly to/from IOM and various routes out of SOU) it will quickly become clear that without competition the reliability is appalling. My own misadventures with BE were between EDI and CWL, another route on which there is no competition.
 
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GCT64
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:01 am

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 16):
it will quickly become clear that without competition the reliability is appalling.

There is a reason why their passengers call them "FlyMaybe"  
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
ScottishDavie
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:05 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 17):
There is a reason why their passengers call them "FlyMaybe"

The old ones are the best ones   
 
Luftymatt
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:16 pm

Quoting bmibaby737 (Reply 1):
The following routes have been axed this year that I can remember:

Manchester to Brussels
Southampton to Brussels, Frankfurt, Isle of Man & Tours
Birmingham to Hamburg,
Gatwick to Nantes, Aberdeen

Are you sure MAN-BRU has been axed? I thought that BE were operating the route for SN now? I've also noticed that they're starting SOU-AMS 3 times a day on behalf of KL.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 9):
I also often wondered if LGW - LPL is worth a try with a twice-daily Q400 service, no direct competition from anyone.

That's a very good point, and I think it could be a real money earner for them. Ever since VG stopped the LPL-LCY service, there's been nothing to fill the void.
chase the sun
 
bmibaby737
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:05 pm

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 19):
Are you sure MAN-BRU has been axed? I thought that BE were operating the route for SN now?

Flybe have axed their own services for MAN-BRU on their own equipment, it just so happens they continue to fly the route but on behalf of Brussels Airlines. They don't code share with SN, and so Flybe passengers are not booked onto this service.

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 19):
I've also noticed that they're starting SOU-AMS 3 times a day on behalf of KL.

Hardly. Flybe have been operating the route for years, they just so happen to code share with KLM now, just like they have been doing with Air France for a long time.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 15):
And I too have noticed the correlation between load factor and flight cancellation - flying through EDI a lot, it is noticeable that FlyBe cancels a lot of flights (c.f. the other major airlines there).
Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 14):
It may also have something to do with their unreliability and the strange tendency of their aircraft to go tech when the load factor is poor and there just happens to be enough accommodation for the pax on a later flight.

The Dash 8 fleet does at times go through spells of poor reliability. The airline does not purposely cancel services just because of low loads.

Now, if you were an airline and you had a tech aircraft that was due to operate a return flight that was full on both ways - but you had a serviceable aircraft that was due to operate a flight with only a handful of people on it - which flight would you ensure was operated out of the two? Of course, you would go for the one that caused the least disruption. So if you look at in a cynical view, you could say "they always cancel XXX-XXX" they don't intend to, but that option will often cause the least disruption, and you may be able to route those passengers via another destination without causing mass-disruption.

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 3):
Flybe should have moved all their London operations between Luton/Southend a long time ago and saved a whole lot of money.

It doesn't always work like that. If it did, everyone would have abandoned Gatwick.
 
JobsaGoodun
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:32 pm

bmibaby737 - someone speaking sense.

Does Flybe cancel more flights than any other airline, maybe, maybe not. Lets not forget that they are operating in excess of 450 flights a day from airports within the UK.

No airline makes a point of cancelling services on the day just because of low passenger numbers and to think they do is crazy. Hefty EU regulations/sanctions for disruption and the potential repercussions of a CAA investigation prevent this.

As bmibaby737 points out, an airline is going to cancel whatever service is gonna disrupt the fewest customers possible. You're hardly gonna p*** off 100 passengers by cancelling their flight when you could cancel one with 40-50 on instead. Just cos that's the decision, it doesn't mean that the airline WANTS to cancel that flight - just that perhaps it's the only option.
 
by738
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:06 pm

Quoting JobsaGoodun (Reply 21):
No airline makes a point of cancelling services on the day just because of low passenger numbers and to think they do is crazy

Sorry, that is incorrect. I know from first hand experience that it is often done for that very reason. Whether that is the reason given to the general public is hard to know.....
 
EIDL
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RE: Flybe To Cease LGW-ABZ

Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:55 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Thread starter):
The withdrawal of BE from the route has implications on the wider LON-ABZ-LON, with around 1m passengers carried in 2011, which will see the number of operators contract from four (BA, BD, EZY, BE) to two (BA and EZY) in less than a year.

EI have been said to be interested in LHR-ABZ, which would help a bit with that figure, if it happens.

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