latinthug
Topic Author
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:12 pm

The Portuguese media is currently full of stories as to who will be TP new owner.

Apparently 9 airlines/company's signified their interest but only 3 actually presented non binding offers.



The first confirmed interested party is German Efromovich's Synergy group ( the owners of AviancaTaca).

The other two interested parties, haven't been confirmed, although its thought that one is an Asian Airline (read Middle east... ETIHAD ) and the other is thought to be a Chinese group.

IAG (BA / IB), and LH both confirmed that they were no longer interested in TP's privatisation as did LATAM, QR, and EuroAtlantic group.

The original 9 are thought to be:

1) IAG Group
2) LH
3) Synergy Group
4) LATAM group
5) EY
6) QR
7) Euro Atlantic airways (Pestana group)
8) unspecified chinese group
9) DT + angolan investors.
 
KFlyer
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:22 pm

I guess the China based investor could be HNA...
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A388
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:52 pm

I see the Synergy Group as the most likely new owner, because Efromovich can link TP with his own Brazilian based airline Avianca Brasil. This allows Avianca Brasil with more feed from Europe allowing them to better expand in Brasil and maybe internationally as well.

A388
 
airbazar
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:01 pm

I still don't believe a word of it. I think it's all lies and rumors. I don't see anyone investing in TP without a new LIS airport. Why would anyone invest in a airline that can't expand because of the limitations of it's home airport? Makes no sense whatsoever.
 
latinthug
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 3):
I don't see anyone investing in TP without a new LIS airport.

What if ** Big IF here** the airline also gets to control or co-own ANA (airport operator).
For example those deep pocketed guys from the middle east take over the airline and in turn help to finance the new airport??
 
airbazar
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:05 pm

Quoting LatinThug (Reply 4):
What if ** Big IF here** the airline also gets to control or co-own ANA (airport operator).
For example those deep pocketed guys from the middle east take over the airline and in turn help to finance the new airport??

They've tried before and were told no. I can't remember which of the ME carriers it was. ANA and TP are not being sold together. Heck, I suspect even TAP will be broken up and sold in pieces because the only valuable pieces are the airline business and TAP M&E (Lisbon based Maintenance). Everything else is a mess and I doubt anyone would want to take it.
http://www.tapportugal.com/Info/pt/S...eaTAP/GrupoTAP/estrutura-acionista
 
C010T3
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:51 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 5):
(Lisbon based Maintenance)

Unless Synergy wants to buy it. Brazilian based M&E would be valuable to Avianca.
 
nethkt
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:59 pm

Off topic, how soon would that be?
As a STAR GOLD, planning to fly in/out of LIS in November, wondering if my STAR GOLD card would be useless there  
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
lisbonbearuk
Posts: 161
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:03 pm

I am a TAP Gold card member and I can assure you there's very little to get e about about at LIS! TAP have a really crappy lounge there.
 
777jaah
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 5):
Heck, I suspect even TAP will be broken up and sold in pieces because the only valuable pieces are the airline business and TAP M&E (Lisbon based Maintenance). Everything else is a mess and I doubt anyone would want to take it.

Basically the same thing was said about AV a before Efromovich took over. Even LA offered just US$1 for the company, because it was such a huge mess!!! Sometimes in these chaotic scenarios someone can spot a golden nugget, where everyone just sees huge problems. Time will just tell.

Quoting A388 (Reply 2):
This allows Avianca Brasil with more feed from Europe allowing them to better expand in Brasil and maybe internationally as well.

Even better, they can promote their bid saying the will stablish LIS as a hub for all the Brazil-Europe traffic the can manage with the AV/TP "alliance". Kind of what AV/TA are doing in BOG/LIM/SAL/SJC.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
av757
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:48 pm

You are also forgetting that TAP is also a Star Alliance member, think of what those possibilities connecting from Brazil via Lisbon can be created for Synergy Aerospace via Avianca Brazil and Avianca-Taca.

AV757
 
PezySPU
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:07 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 2):
This allows Avianca Brasil with more feed from Europe allowing them to better expand in Brasil and maybe internationally as well.

And AV-TA investing in TP would be awesome for LH, too. TP would stay in Star Alliance without LH spending its own capital.
 
tff
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:09 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 5):
Heck, I suspect even TAP will be broken up and sold in pieces because the only valuable pieces are the airline business and TAP M&E (Lisbon based Maintenance).

That's what makes sense.

Quoting nethkt (Reply 7):
Off topic, how soon would that be?
As a STAR GOLD, planning to fly in/out of LIS in November, wondering if my STAR GOLD card would be useless there

I wouldn't worry - the privatization won't be closed by then.

Quoting lisbonbearuk (Reply 8):
I am a TAP Gold card member and I can assure you there's very little to get e about about at LIS! TAP have a really crappy lounge there.

I beg to differ. It isn't the most amazing lounge in the world, but it's certainly above average. And the food offer is quite good.
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Revelation
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TAP - New Owners?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:46 pm

Quoting LatinThug (Thread starter):
The first confirmed interested party is German Efromovich's Synergy group ( the owners of AviancaTaca).

Great, then they can claim German ownership! 
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Byrdluvs747
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TAP - New Owners?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:33 am

I wonder why LATAM and IAG didn't consider a joint venture for purchasing TP.
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airbazar
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TAP - New Owners?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:30 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 6):
Unless Synergy wants to buy it. Brazilian based M&E would be valuable to Avianca.

They've been bleeding money by the millions. AV would be better off starting their own from scratch  
Quoting AV757 (Reply 10):
You are also forgetting that TAP is also a Star Alliance member, think of what those possibilities connecting from Brazil via Lisbon can be created for Synergy Aerospace via Avianca Brazil and Avianca-Taca.

Except LIS is maxed out. What you see today is pretty much all you can have. Like I said above, no room to grow.
Not to mention the connections which are a pain when you end up at a remote stand, which is most of the time due to the lack of sufficient gates with jetbridges.
But none of this is relevant. Apparently just yesterday they daid that they are not interested in TP.
http://noticias.portugalmail.pt/arti...ste-da-corrida-privatizacao-da-tap

Like I said, I don't believe any of these rumors. The government blew it big time: First by not privatizing TP 5-7 years ago. And then by not building a new airport where a new privatized TP could really stablish itself as a relevant carrier and strong economic force for the region. Instead they pandered for votes and played politics, and now everybody loses.
 
A388
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TAP - New Owners?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:36 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 15):
But none of this is relevant. Apparently just yesterday they daid that they are not interested in TP.
http://noticias.portugalmail.pt/arti...a-tap

How reliable is this source? I still see TP being the perfect fit for Efromovich's Synergy Group for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.

A388
 
C010T3
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TAP - New Owners?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:45 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 15):
They've been bleeding money by the millions. AV would be better off starting their own from scratch

They have, because they have a big idle infrastructure. The Lisbon M&E is also only totally dependent on TAP. If TP collapsed, it would be worse than the Brazil-based M&E.
 
tff
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TAP - New Owners?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:47 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 15):
But none of this is relevant. Apparently just yesterday they daid that they are not interested in TP.
http://noticias.portugalmail.pt/arti...ste-da-corrida-privatizacao-da-tap
Quoting A388 (Reply 16):
How reliable is this source? I still see TP being the perfect fit for Efromovich's Synergy Group for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.

Avianca is not running for the bid, but Gérman Efromovich, through its holding Synergy Group, is. All Portuguese newspapers confirm this. Example: http://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/home....hp?template=SHOWNEWS_V2&id=579363.
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A388
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TAP - New Owners?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:57 pm

Quoting tff (Reply 18):
Avianca is not running for the bid, but Gérman Efromovich, through its holding Synergy Group, is. All Portuguese newspapers confirm this.

I totally forgot about this, you are right. Avianca isn't bidding for TP but Mr. Efromovich is who just happens to own Avianca as well. Unless member airbazar has an article that states that Mr. Efromovich and his Synergy Group aren't bidding anymore...

A388
 
RCS763AV
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TAP - New Owners?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 5):
Everything else is a mess and I doubt anyone would want to take it.

Efromovich is a man who made his fortune by buying companies in terrible state cheap and running them to profitability. I think what was done with Avianca is an example of what could be done with TAP, hell, Avianca was in an even worse position than TAP back in 2003. About LIS being maxed out, it is a limitation but frankly TP already have a very established position on Europe-South America traffic with very valuable routes to Brazil.

We'll see how this goes.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
Great, then they can claim German ownership!

Actually Mr. Efromovich's parents were polish.
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
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TAP - New Owners?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 20):
Actually Mr. Efromovich's parents were polish.

You didn't get his pun.
 
Summa767
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TAP - New Owners?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 20):
Efromovich is a man who made his fortune by buying companies in terrible state cheap and running them to profitability. I think what was done with Avianca is an example of what could be done with TAP, hell, Avianca was in an even worse position than TAP back in 2003

It would certainly be a gamble. The stakes are higher than when he bought AV.
AV was certainly in a bad position then, just coming out of Chapter 11, but it meant that already sanitised and restructured, and did not face much competition. He invested in fleet renewal,and it paid off - NOo least because economic climate was favourable to expansion. TAP has opportunities, but also huge pitfalls.
 
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Sepultallica
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TAP - New Owners?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:42 pm

Please let it be DT and the Angolans, please please PLEASE.

Not for any fiscal/managerial reasons, but simply for the lulz at seeing a European national carrier having its shots called from crappy Luanda of all places.
Chinokanganwa idemo; Chitsiga hachikanganwe. ✈
 
airbazar
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TAP - New Owners?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:59 pm

Quoting summa767 (Reply 22):
TAP has opportunities, but also huge pitfalls.

Well, TP the airline is not nearly in as bad a shape as AV was. TP has been profitable just about every year since 2000, including last year. Group TAP is a different story. If all he is interested in is the airline, then given that the government is deperate to sell it and there are no takers, he could get TP for very little money.
The biggest pitfall at TP are the unions, something he didn't have to worry as much with AV. In Portugal's political climate, the unions pretty much dictate how the business is run. The other issue, as I said above, is the lack of growth potential.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 20):
About LIS being maxed out, it is a limitation but frankly TP already have a very established position on Europe-South America traffic with very valuable routes to Brazil.

But that advantage is decreasing with the fast growth of LCC at LIS. You can't operate long haul routes without short haul feeding. The LCCs are taking away more and more marketshare from TP every year in the short haul market.
The other problem is connections. TP has a huge problem attracting high yield passengers to the LIS hub because of how painful it is to connect at LIS where most flights must park at remote stands and require long bus ride. This is not only a hassle to passengers, but it also increases the transfer time between flights and the risk of missed connections and lost luggage. There's a reason why LIS is one of the top airports in Europe if not the top, for lost luggage. there's also a reason why TP doesn't have F class cabins or a larger J cabin. It's because they have a hard time attracting that kind of client due to the infrastructure that they have to deal with.

[Edited 2012-09-21 06:00:59]
 
SCL767
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TAP - New Owners?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:27 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 14):
I wonder why LATAM and IAG didn't consider a joint venture for purchasing TP.

LATAM has a size-able and growing presence at IAG's MAD hub. LATAM also serves LHR and plans to launch direct routes between South America and four new destinations within Europe during the next two years.
 
A388
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TAP - New Owners?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:44 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 24):
there's also a reason why TP doesn't have F class cabins or a larger J cabin. It's because they have a hard time attracting that kind of client due to the infrastructure that they have to deal with.

I'm not sure if that really is the reason why TP doesn't have F class cabins or larger J cabins. KL also doesn't have first class but that doesn't mean it is related to the airport they use.

A388
 
tff
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TAP - New Owners?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:03 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 24):
There's a reason why LIS is one of the top airports in Europe if not the top, for lost luggage.

I couldn't find any comparative statistics for recent years (ie, from 2010 onwards) apart from those in TP's corporate reports. The latter still show high figures, but also a constant and significant improvement for the LIS hub: from 54,1 mishandled bags per 1000 pax in 2007 down to 24,9 in 2011 (http://new.flytap.com/prjdir/flytap/mediaRep/editors/Contentimages/INSTITUTIONAL/PDF/TAP/Relatorios/anual/2011/TAP_AR_2011_EN.pdf).

Quoting airbazar (Reply 24):
there's also a reason why TP doesn't have F class cabins or a larger J cabin. It's because they have a hard time attracting that kind of client due to the infrastructure that they have to deal with.

That's way too simplistic of a statement. Is that the same reason KL, IB, OS, AZ, SK, or AY (or, for all that matters, the vast majority of airlines in the world) don't have F?

[Edited 2012-09-21 07:05:10]
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kgaiflyer
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:40 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 21):
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 20):Actually Mr. Efromovich's parents were polish.

You didn't get his pun.

Probably a language thing -- like the difference between polish and Polish -- one a verb and one a noun.
 
A388
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:10 pm

Quoting tff (Reply 27):
That's way too simplistic of a statement. Is that the same reason KL, IB, OS, AZ, SK, or AY (or, for all that matters, the vast majority of airlines in the world) don't have F?

My point exactly. At the same time I'm interested to know why many European major airlines inflight product is not up to par with those of Asia and the Middle East. Do Europeans in general don't travel in first class?

A388
 
airbazar
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:26 pm

Quoting tff (Reply 27):
That's way too simplistic of a statement. Is that the same reason KL, IB, OS, AZ, SK, or AY (or, for all that matters, the vast majority of airlines in the world) don't have F?

Yes it's too simplistic but the implication being that TP has a hard time attracting a larger proportion of premium customers due to, amongst other things, a very inconvenient hub. Remember, I said "F _OR_ a larger J cabin". Different airlines have different constraints. LIS is one of the biggest ones for TP. Having said that airlines that don't have F, typically have a business class product that is superior to that of TP, starting with a flat bed seat. And you can't separate KL from AF. AF/KL sure as heck still has F class.

Quoting tff (Reply 27):
from 54,1 mishandled bags per 1000 pax in 2007 down to 24,9 in 2011

Indeed. Alot of it has to do with the new baggage handling facility but it's still a problem. And those numbers are clouded by the fact that passengers of LCC are less likely to check bags and today LIS is much more of a LCC airport than it was 5 years ago. So while more passengers are using LIS every day, fewer are checking bags. I would like to see the percentage of mishandled bags per 1000 checked bags, not per passenger. I bet the numbers would be a lot less flattering  

Another serious problem at LIS is theft. It is the one airport in Europe where I can count on my bag being broken into if I check-in too early so I can imagine the same being true for luggage that has a long layover. At the end of the day my point is this: LIS has huge constraints that go beyond what you see on the surface, for a full service network carrier to be based there, especially when this carrier needs to attract premium passengers in order to offset the losses in the low yield cabin. I don't see that changing without a new airport.

Even if they somehow go ahead with the stupid LCC airport idea, it only solves the problem of slots/movements but it doesn't solve the underlying problem that is the lack of enough gates with air bridges to provide an efficient hubbing operation to premium customers, or that the terminal building is so hugely congested due to it's limited size.

All I can say is hold on to your chairs because these will be very interesting times ahead for LIS and TP   
 
tff
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:56 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 30):
Yes it's too simplistic but the implication being that TP has a hard time attracting a larger proportion of premium customers due to, amongst other things, a very inconvenient hub. Remember, I said "F _OR_ a larger J cabin". Different airlines have different constraints. LIS is one of the biggest ones for TP.

I wouldn't rank TP's hub as one of the top reasons for the lack of premium traffic, especially now that there are plenty of gates for widebodies and that service has improved a lot (apart from the airport's expansion, the check-in premium area, the shorter delivery time of bags, the lounge, etc.). But it's certainly one of the reasons for that and one of the reasons why TP is less appealing for investors, in spite of all its assets (namely the Brazil network).

Quoting airbazar (Reply 30):
Having said that airlines that don't have F, typically have a business class product that is superior to that of TP, starting with a flat bed seat.

Among the ones I mentioned, and (paradoxically) excluding IB and AY, which are the ones that have a flat bed in C/CL? And to that you can also add AF and the vast majority of LH's fleet.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 30):
Indeed. Alot of it has to do with the new baggage handling facility but it's still a problem. And those numbers are clouded by the fact that passengers of LCC are less likely to check bags and today LIS is much more of a LCC airport than it was 5 years ago. So while more passengers are using LIS every day, fewer are checking bags. I would like to see the percentage of mishandled bags per 1000 checked bags, not per passenger. I bet the numbers would be a lot less flattering

The numbers I posted refer only to TP's hub, not to the overall operation at LIS.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 30):
Another serious problem at LIS is theft. It is the one airport in Europe where I can count on my bag being broken into if I check-in too early so I can imagine the same being true for luggage that has a long layover.

I've never heard of one such problem.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 30):
At the end of the day my point is this: LIS has huge constraints that go beyond what you see on the surface, for a full service network carrier to be based there, especially when this carrier needs to attract premium passengers in order to offset the losses in the low yield cabin. I don't see that changing without a new airport. Even if they somehow go ahead with the stupid LCC airport idea, it only solves the problem of slots/movements but it doesn't solve the underlying problem that is the lack of enough gates with air bridges to provide an efficient hubbing operation to premium customers, or that the terminal building is so hugely congested due to it's limited size.

I completely agree with you on that. Building a LCC airport is one of the silliest ideas ever, from whichever perspective, only second to building an airport in Beja. And TP does desperately need a new airport.
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FI642
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:06 pm

I don't see IAG purchasing TAP. They have their hands full with what's going on now. Getting costs under control is number one in their priority list.

I still miss their L15's!
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latinthug
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:32 pm

Quoting FI642 (Reply 32):
don't see IAG purchasing TAP.

you're quick LOL!

IAG already anounced a few days ago that they were no longer interested in TP.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:05 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 30):
t is the one airport in Europe where I can count on my bag being broken into if I check-in too early so I can imagine the same being true for luggage that has a long layover.

Having flown in and out of LIS about 200 times, about half of which with checked luggage, I cannot confirm this. I agree that the remote stand problem is a pain, but theft is something I have yet to experience.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
jumpjets
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 14):
I wonder why LATAM and IAG didn't consider a joint venture for purchasing TP.

One reason might be that both are still mid post-merger rationalisation/development of their own and another complex acquisition might well be the last thing they need when they have to keep a sharp eye on the ball.

Also they both have been through several hoops with their respective regulators recently and seen what has to be given up when competition issues rear their heads. Given that LATAM/IAG/TAP coming together would have had serious concentration issues for traffic crossing the south Atlantic I wouldn't be surprised if LATAM/IAG both decided they would have to give up too much to satisfy the regulator to make an acquisition viable.
 
airbazar
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:58 pm

Quoting buyantukhaa (Reply 34):
Having flown in and out of LIS about 200 times, about half of which with checked luggage, I cannot confirm this

Just because nothing has been stolen it doesn't mean they haven't tried  
The same can't be said for these guys:
http://cfbelenenses.blogspot.pt/2012.../bagagem-furtada-no-aeroporto.html
I'm very particular about how I pack my things so I notice right away if someone has been in there. They never taken anything of value because I know better but on my last trip they busted my zipper, which sucks. I guess they haven't gotten the new TSA keys   
 
A388
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 36):
I'm very particular about how I pack my things so I notice right away if someone has been in there. They never taken anything of value because I know better but on my last trip they busted my zipper, which sucks. I guess they haven't gotten the new TSA keys

Every airport has luggage checks, so at any airport "people could have been there". What makes LIS very attractive is their dominent position on the Brazilian market from Portugal. There is no European airline that dominates the Brazilian market like TP does through LIS.

A388
 
airbazar
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:37 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 37):
Every airport has luggage checks, so at any airport "people could have been there". What makes LIS very attractive is their dominent position on the Brazilian market from Portugal. There is no European airline that dominates the Brazilian market like TP does through LIS.

Surely you mean TAP   I'd say what makes LIS very attractive is their geographic location, as the first major airport on the flight path between most of the Americas and Europe, free of airspace congestion and always with good weather   It's also well positioned between N.America and Africa. LIS could be a phenomenal hub IF they went ahead with a new airport  
 
A388
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:41 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 38):
Surely you mean TAP I'd say what makes LIS very attractive is their geographic location, as the first major airport on the flight path between most of the Americas and Europe, free of airspace congestion and always with good weather It's also well positioned between N.America and Africa.

Yes, I meant TP who operates out of LIS.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 38):
LIS could be a phenomenal hub IF they went ahead with a new airport

Well as TP is the dominant player on the Protugal-Brazil market, LIS must be doing something good too as all TP's passengers pass through LIS.

A388
 
airbazar
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RE: TAP - New Owners?

Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:34 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 39):
Well as TP is the dominant player on the Protugal-Brazil market, LIS must be doing something good too as all TP's passengers pass through LIS.

TP is doing good despite LIS. The single biggest complaint from TP's CEO is that LIS is very constrained and can't support TP's growth as a network carrier. He points out the lack of jet bridges as a problem.
http://www.mundoportugues.org/conten...p-vai-ser-uma-empresa-mais-solida/
"É uma resposta muito simples. A Portela está sendo bastante melhorada mas claramente de uma forma temporária, não é um aeroporto com concepção de base para se fazer o que está sendo feito nele que é uma forte operação de placa giratória, o que logo à partida implica uma enorme quantidade de mangas para fazer transitar os passageiros entre voos por dentro do aeroporto e não por fora, e nisso a Portela não tem nem terá nunca condições para poder vir a ser feito."

My very loose translation: LIS is not built to operate as a hub because it lacks sufficient jet bridges to allow passengers to transit between flights. LIS does not have today, and it will never have the conditions necessary to be an efficient hub."
 
A388
Posts: 7949
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: TAP - New Owners?

Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:53 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 40):
My very loose translation: LIS is not built to operate as a hub because it lacks sufficient jet bridges to allow passengers to transit between flights. LIS does not have today, and it will never have the conditions necessary to be an efficient hub."

Okay so let's leave this discussion on LIS being bad or not (this is just a personal opinion anyway) and focus on the thread itself. TP potential new owners will take TP with LIS as it is now as the airline is doing well on the Portugal-Brazil market.

A388
 
troest
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:08 pm

RE: TAP - New Owners?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:23 pm

An article in portuguese tells something about Avianca or the owner of it, Germán Efromovich, could get 100% of TAP as soon it is approved in Brussels in 2013. But still no official new owner of TAP


Only in portuguese:
Link: http://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/home....emplate=SHOWNEWS_V2&id=581515&pn=1

[Edited 2012-10-01 06:35:39]

Trasnlated from Google translate:
The European Commission (EC) says it is committed to strengthening the competitiveness of European industry. In this sense, the package of proposals to be submitted in early 2013, will suggest the removal of restrictions on ownership and control. If this measure is adopted, the TAP can leave benefit, since the most likely candidate for privatization of the company - the entrepreneur Germán Efromovich - is not European.


[Edited 2012-10-01 06:42:39]
 
A388
Posts: 7949
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: TAP - New Owners?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting troest (Reply 42):
An article in portuguese tells something about Avianca or the owner of it, Germán Efromovich, could get 100% of TAP as soon it is approved in Brussels in 2013. But still no official new owner of TAP

If true, it will make Avianca stronger in Brazil as they will get more feed from Portugal and Europe via TP. Passengers can then connect on Avianca Brasil. I can see why Mr. Efromovich wants to buy TP. It's part of a bigger picture.

A388
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: TAP - New Owners?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:17 pm

Quoting troest (Reply 42):
An article in portuguese tells something about Avianca or the owner of it, Germán Efromovich, could get 100% of TAP as soon it is approved in Brussels in 2013

Really what it says is that if pwnership rules change, that could benefit the sale of TP to Efromovich. I don't see that happenning with a lot of restrictions....don't know, but I don't think that will go through easily.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
airbazar
Posts: 9946
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TAP - New Owners?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:25 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 44):
Really what it says is that if pwnership rules change, that could benefit the sale of TP to Efromovich. I don't see that happenning with a lot of restrictions....don't know, but I don't think that will go through easily.

True however that is not really what they are doing. What they are doing is setting up holding company with Portuguese investors in order to get around the foreign ownership rule. That's what they will present to Brussels and hope to get approval. This is similar to what the Virgin group did to keep control of Virgin America.
Nevertheless, at a time when the EU is asking the US to relax foreign ownership rules, I think this approach has a very good chance of success.
 
A388
Posts: 7949
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: TAP - New Owners?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:27 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 44):
Really what it says is that if pwnership rules change, that could benefit the sale of TP to Efromovich. I don't see that happenning with a lot of restrictions....don't know, but I don't think that will go through easily.

Seeing the condition of the aviation industry worldwide I can see the regulators wanting to ease (foreign) ownerships rules as long as a monopoly isn't created after the airline involved is taken over. I can see why LATAM has limited chance of acquiring TP as they will then be too powerful between South America and Europe, also because IB is in the same alliance as they are. The same goes for the IAG group (BA/IB) who already owns IB. If they would be allowed to take over TP they would practically be owning the South American-Europe markets. Now if Mr. Efromovich takes over TP what monopoly does he create? To my knowledge none so I don't see difficulties there. Just my opinion.

A388
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: TAP - New Owners?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 46):
Now if Mr. Efromovich takes over TP what monopoly does he create? To my knowledge none so I don't see difficulties there.

Agree. Bu tthe main risk here is purely political:

Quoting A388 (Reply 46):
at a time when the EU is asking the US to relax foreign ownership rules, I think this approach has a very good chance of success.

This approach is more realistic in what I think is the biggest problem for Efromovich buying TP.

Quoting A388 (Reply 46):
What they are doing is setting up holding company with Portuguese investors in order to get around the foreign ownership rule. That's what they will present to Brussels and hope to get approval.

This is the right step in the right directio for the oto take control and get aroud ownership rules. If they can push that idea in this direction, ownership rule changes will just reaffirm their position.

OTOH, It would be very hard for Brussels to stop a foreing bid (well structured legally), if that would help Portugal to get rid of a cash bleeding company, in these times of recession and money strapped goverments.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
airbazar
Posts: 9946
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TAP - New Owners?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 47):
OTOH, It would be very hard for Brussels to stop a foreing bid (well structured legally), if that would help Portugal to get rid of a cash bleeding company, in these times of recession and money strapped goverments.

There lies the problem. TP is profitable and valuable, albeit very undercapitalized because they can't just go to the market to raise capital like any publicly traded company can. So they're struggling to improve and grow because it requires capital, which they don't have. However "Europe" is demanding that the Portuguese government put it up for sale, so Portugal may actually hold the upper hand in this. They can go to Brussels and say: If you want us to sell it this is the only option. Change the foreign ownership rules or it won't sell.

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