RP TPA
Topic Author
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Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:44 pm

Greetings all,

Air Canada's senior VP of finance recently said info on the new "low cost" division will be announced in the next few weeks. It will basically be high density B767's and A319s, flying to certain European and Carribean destinations. Some routes will be brand new, and some will be "stolen" (my words, not his) from the mainline.

Let the speculation begin!!

From the Globe and Mail:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/stor...012/09/19/air-canada-low-cost.html

[Edited 2012-09-19 12:54:22]
 
polaris
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:48 pm

Destinations moved over from mainline: Dublin, Madrid, Barcelona, Athens

Looking forward to real info on NEW destinations.

[Edited 2012-09-19 13:22:02]
 
fly2yyz
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:11 pm

Just look at TS route map and I'm sure all the longhaul routes will be similar if not exactly the same minus LGW/FRA/CDG
 
polaris
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:06 pm

Real possibility of the following new/re-instated destinations: Glasgow, Manchester, Amsterdam, Nice, Casablanca
 
BD500
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:46 pm

Is there a possibility we see the previously projected YUL-BEY route operated by the LCC?
 
by738
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting polaris (Reply 3):
Real possibility of the following new/re-instated destinations: Glasgow

Yes I hope so, after the huge gains by the monopoly TS to GLA this summer to YVR YYZ would be good to see Air Canada back at EGPF in some shape or from. There used to be three AC flights in one day including the 747 in the good old days. A shame to hit on TS who have supported and shown growth on routes to GLA
 
fly2yyz
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:13 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 5):
after the huge gains by the monopoly TS to GLA this summer t

Hmmm I believe Sunwing was doing GLA too this summer....
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:32 pm

Would be good to see EDI regain a Canada link after TS consolidated in GLA.
 
yegbey01
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:14 am

Quoting BD500 (Reply 4):
Is there a possibility we see the previously projected YUL-BEY route operated by the LCC?

I am sure they would like to...But not gonna happen!!
 
luv2fly
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:20 am

How many times have they tried this idea.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
YYZAMS
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:27 am

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 9):

I agree. I guess they see that Air Transat and Sunwing are doing well and want their cut. Once they dominate and make the others pull out then AC will pull out and close the LC airline.

I bet they won't even offer Aeroplan!
 
krisyyz
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:49 am

Quoting polaris (Reply 1):
Destinations moved over from mainline: Dublin, Madrid, Barcelona, Athens

For sure, although one could argue they aren't really mainline to begin with. Yes, they are flown by mainline crews and metal, but those 767s don't have the standard AC offering on board (no XM cabin).

One or two out of the 3 non-xm'd 763s have 260 seat at the moment (layout 5), so I would assume the 275 seats will be all one class? Or will AC try to squeeze in a premium economy cabin as well, like TS's club class?

How can AC spare 20 763s for the LCC? All 14 787s would have to be delivered before AC could remove 20 frames from the mainline. I also thought the first 787s would be replacing the A333s.

I would love to see a central European destination for AC's LCC ops, PRG or BUD would be nice for the summer season.

I guess AC has put the pacific LCC plan on hold?

KrisYYZ
 
hoons90
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:13 am

How about ICN? AC hasn't sent any aircraft larger than the 763 there for the past 4 years, and those 763s aren't really premium heavy at all, so I get the impression that it's not a very high yielding destination for them.

Maybe they'll pull out altogether. Who knows...
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Danfearn77
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:03 am

I believe Manchester is in the pipeline. I've heard 5 or 6 weekly...
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Revelation
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:11 am

Quoting RP TPA (Thread starter):
Air Canada "lc" Airline...

Nice idea for branding. Conveys the low cost idea in the fewest characters. Saves ink and paint too!  
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
yegbey01
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:45 am

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 10):
I bet they won't even offer Aeroplan!

They could always offer aeroplan at a premium - depending on the length of the flight. A la carte menu including FF miles. Why not?
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:24 am

Some of the routes that are eager to be let out of the bag should be,

MAN-YYZ-YUL - 6 weekly ex Tuesday's - 1st May Start
Dublin - daily B767-300
Rome FCO
Barcelona,
Athens
Stockholm
and
Lisbon.

hopefully it will come to light by the time the Winter timetable starts!
Air New Zealand ~ dreams of flying
 
9252fly
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:28 am

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 15):
They could always offer aeroplan at a premium - depending on the length of the flight. A la carte menu including FF miles. Why not?

Some may remember in the early stages,Tango fares had an opt-out for additional savings. The reverse seems plausible. In respect to potential routes,anything that is leisure orientated and operated by mainline is a a target as well as routes that have been dropped over the years for that reason. Look at where the competitors operate charter flights as a key. This is AC attempt to do a JQ.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:56 am

Why do airlines keep trying to offer the low frills operation, within a carrier concept? I can't think of anytime it has worked.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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mats01776
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:52 am

I love to see a direct Toronto to Honolulu flight. I expect it to be low-yielding, but the demand should be there.

The naughty boy in me wants to see a direct Ottawa to Fukuoka (a major Southern Japanese City) flight.
It may be one of the few city pairs where the luggage tag should be censored on the return trip.  Wow!http://aviability.com/flight-search/from-fuk-fukuoka-japan/to-yow-macdonald-cartier-ottawa-on-canada/
 
richcandy
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:16 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 18):
Why do airlines keep trying to offer the low frills operation, within a carrier concept? I can't think of anytime it has worked.

I agree!

I guess the problem is that there are routes that airlines would like to fly and where there is a market but not at main carriers fare levels.

Example

AC tried for years to make MAN-YYZ & GLA-YYZ work. There are passengers that want to fly the route however they seam to be more price sensitive. So if TS offer lower fares than AC, they tend to get the business.

Alex
 
canadiantree
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:15 pm

I'm still waiting to see CDG-YVR direct, Paris is one of the largest cities in Europe and Vancouver is one of the biggest in Canada, still can't believe Air Canada doesn't think the demand is there, especially since TS does very well when they do operate their flights. Same for CDG-YYC.
 
irishpower
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:47 pm

My two cents

CDG
FCO
VCE
GVA
BSL
NCE
ATH
AMS
LIS
BCN
DUB
LGW
 
drgmobile
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 9):
How many times have they tried this idea.

This has never been tried before.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 18):
Why do airlines keep trying to offer the low frills operation, within a carrier concept? I can't think of anytime it has worked.

Jetstar has been successful for Qantas.
 
threepoint
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:54 pm

Quoting Irishpower (Reply 22):
My two cents

Yes, but from where in Canada? All YYZ or do you see some other city pairs?
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:02 pm

AC has said that the new LCC will focus on leisure destinations, including the Caribbean, U.S. and Europe.

Quoting mats01776 (Reply 19):
I love to see a direct Toronto to Honolulu flight. I expect it to be low-yielding, but the demand should be there.

It never worked in the past. CP started YYZ-HNL nonstop service in the 1960s on DC-8s and it was dropped and resurrected a few times in later years without success.

I don't think much has changed since. It's just too far compared to Florida, the Caribbean and Mexico. Means wasting almost a day of valuable vacation time each way, not to mention higher fares. For those who do want to visit Hawaii, there are plenty of connecting options on many carriers, including AC.
 
tayser
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:07 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 18):

Why do airlines keep trying to offer the low frills operation, within a carrier concept? I can't think of anytime it has worked.

Click:
http://www.jetstar.com/au/en/plannin...where-we-go/route-map#/?origin=MEL
 
luv2fly
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:39 am

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 9): How many times have they tried this idea.

This has never been tried before.

Really, Zip and Tango.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
StarAC17
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:21 am

Quoting BD500 (Reply 4):
Is there a possibility we see the previously projected YUL-BEY route operated by the LCC?

The problem with that one isn't potential yield it is security and political pressure.

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 10):
I bet they won't even offer Aeroplan!

Probably at a 0.5:1 ratio such as with a Tango fare.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 18):
Why do airlines keep trying to offer the low frills operation, within a carrier concept? I can't think of anytime it has worked.

QF and JQ and the difference there is that the employees at JQ do not mix duties with those of QF. Because of this JQ has negotiated different contracts that are cheaper and is run basically independent of QF.

AC wants to mimic this and it is creating tension with their unions because of it.

Longhauler would be the best to explain the issues.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 27):
Really, Zip and Tango.

They used the same crews so there really wasn't serious cost savings involved, which is why they fail.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
ACT7
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:26 am

Quoting canadiantree (Reply 21):
I'm still waiting to see CDG-YVR direct, Paris is one of the largest cities in Europe and Vancouver is one of the biggest in Canada, still can't believe Air Canada doesn't think the demand is there, especially since TS does very well when they do operate their flights. Same for CDG-YYC.

The demand may be there but it's low yield. They tried seasonal YYZ-CDG on a 77W and pulled it two years later. They may try it again with their LCC.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:39 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 28):
AC wants to mimic this and it is creating tension with their unions because of it.

You mean a union is trying to stop anything from happening? Awww.. what a shock :lol:

Seriously though, yes times like this call for drastic measures. This will only work if there are significant savings that can be implemented, as was the case with JQ. In the end though, AC is finding it really needs to cut costs to stay in the game, as many other carriers are (including LH).

In the end, unions will try their game of protesting everything, but if no change occurs, there may well be many of their own members out of work. Its just the nature of the industry.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:18 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 28):
They used the same crews so there really wasn't serious cost savings involved, which is why they fail.

Tango used the same crews. Zip didn't! Zip pilots were at a lower pay scale and flight attendants were hired off the street.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:35 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
It never worked in the past. CP started YYZ-HNL nonstop service in the 1960s on DC-8s and it was dropped and resurrected a few times in later years without success.

In the early to mid 90's I flew both a DC-10-30 and a 763 on this route between Hawaii and Europe, and it seemed the majority of passengers were connecting overseas, the connecting times were real good both ways, planes we not super full, say 75% Y and up front.

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 23):
Jetstar has been successful for Qantas.
Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 28):

QF and JQ and the difference there is that the employees at JQ do not mix duties with those of QF. Because of this JQ has negotiated different contracts that are cheaper and is run basically independent of QF.

AC wants to mimic this and it is creating tension with their unions because of it

OK, between 3 A.netters, one example of this concept working, I admit I didn't think of JetStar, I was thinking, Song, Ted, Shuttle by United, Cal lite, CO West, Frontier Horizon, the list of dead carriers litters the pages of airlines of the past books.
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pesit4a
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:55 am

Hello Folks!

Does anyone know if the Dublin route will be year round or remain seasonal as with mainline?
You just can't keep a good man down!
 
RP TPA
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:48 pm

Quoting pesit4a (Reply 33):
Does anyone know if the Dublin route will be year round or remain seasonal as with mainline?

AC recently started an e-tkt interline agreement with Aer Lingus, so I would assume the YYZ-DUB route would remain seasonal. During the off season AC can route passengers through LHR.
 
mainMAN
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:23 pm

Quoting Irishpower (Reply 22):
LGW

Interesting thought. Would AC want to dilute their LHR ops? (rhetorical question)
 
AirNovaBAe146
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:25 pm

How come AC doesn't create a sub-fleet of B767s and Airbus 320 series aircraft for the venture but keep them under the AC banner.

Configure them with more economy than their current fleet (similar to the 3 Amigos/non-XM'd B763s they have flying around). I know some Euro carriers such as BA or AF have different configurations for their widebodies, ranging from 4 classes/other high J configs, to seating arrangements with a lot more Y for the tourist destinations.
Keep a row or two for anybody who wants to buy a business class seat.

Reason I say this is because even though AC is saying they want to be able to better compete with the Air Transats of the world, its not like TS offers a significantly lesser experience than what AC does. Transat is in the process of updating the interiors of their A330s to include seatback entertainment, and provides decent meals. Biggest drawbacks are no frequent flyer miles and the crammed interior - which is what you are basically going to get on the AC LCC (Aeroplan probably will be optioned into the pricing scheme somehow).

http://blog.apex.aero/op-ed/oped-air-transat-urges-find-fault/

Reason I say this is because I suspect traffic on this LCC will be funneled from the AC network (eg Sudbury - Toronto - Glasgow). Would not it make sense to keep it all under one house. It is going to be a bit awkward with the interface between brands (AC mainline, Express, LCC).
 
pesit4a
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:28 pm

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 34):

Rumour has it EI is about to start its own service to Canada!
You just can't keep a good man down!
 
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longhauler
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:28 pm

As no new B767s or A319s are planned, likely the plan is to change current routes to LCC routes. My guess would be the low-yield Atlantic destinations currently being flown, plus some Southern Destinations that do not generate high yield passengers. A 270 seat B767-300 configuration, with a "premium economy" product at the front, and 140 seat A319 configuration has been rumoured.

A very tight configuration, but as Transat has shown, people are willing to put up with narrow seats with poor leg room for a cheap seat.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 30):
Seriously though, yes times like this call for drastic measures. This will only work if there are significant savings that can be implemented, as was the case with JQ. In the end though, AC is finding it really needs to cut costs to stay in the game, as many other carriers are (including LH).

Jetstar's success is one of the driving factors for this new venture. But as AC has not made public the "game plan", one has to wonder if they will emulate it properly.

A few things to note, (from my perspective) is that BEFORE the wage cuts of the new contract, AC's A330 pilots were already paid less than Jetstar, with similar working conditions. With the new contract, wages will be about 40% less (per seat mile, as it is a B767/A330 comparison) with working conditions pushed to what Canadian Air Regs will allow.

As for the rest of the employee groups, we will have to wait and see. Nothing has been announced publicly .... but for it to work, every employee group will have to take a similar wage cut.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 30):

You mean a union is trying to stop anything from happening? Awww.. what a shock :lol:

I know this was meant tongue-in-cheek, but for pilots the biggest stumbling block to accept, is that this LCC will have pilots on a separate equipment roster, even though flying the same aircraft as the mainline. This appeared too much like something to be severed and sold ... as AC has done in the past. And the pilots did not want to do that to their co-workers.

When the LCC was proposed, pilots proposed a lower pay-scale when working these flights, but from the same equipment roster. That system already exists at AC, and pay-scales on the same aircraft type differ when flying different routes/times. But that proposal was not accepted, which makes me think that pilot wages were not the big issue to be addressed.
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yyz717
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:32 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 38):
Jetstar's success is one of the driving factors for this new venture. But as AC has not made public the "game plan", one has to wonder if they will emulate it properly.

A few things to note, (from my perspective) is that BEFORE the wage cuts of the new contract, AC's A330 pilots were already paid less than Jetstar, with similar working conditions. With the new contract, wages will be about 40% less (per seat mile, as it is a B767/A330 comparison) with working conditions pushed to what Canadian Air Regs will allow.

The best comparison or measure of AC lc 763 pilot wages will be vs. the Sunwing 763 pilot wages, and perhaps TS 332 pilot wages. AC lc will compete against Sunwung....not Jetstar. Hence, what Jetstar 332 pilots make is completely irrelevant to AC pilots. I suspect the Ac lc 763 pilot wages will still be higher than Sunwing......

Quoting longhauler (Reply 38):
As no new B767s or A319s are planned, likely the plan is to change current routes to LCC routes. My guess would be the low-yield Atlantic destinations currently being flown, plus some Southern Destinations that do not generate high yield passengers. A 270 seat B767-300 configuration, with a "premium economy" product at the front, and 140 seat A319 configuration has been rumoured.

That sounds likely. The question remains though -- why does AC even want to compete in the leisure market? Will the overall costs of AC lc be lower than Sunwing, Air Transat and Westjet? It seems unlikely.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:55 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 39):
The best comparison or measure of AC lc 763 pilot wages will be vs. the Sunwing 763 pilot wages, and perhaps TS 332 pilot wages. AC lc will compete against Sunwung....not Jetstar. Hence, what Jetstar 332 pilots make is completely irrelevant to AC pilots. I suspect the Ac lc 763 pilot wages will still be higher than Sunwing......

The difference being the the Sunwing B763 pilots are not Sunwing pilots!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:01 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 40):
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 39):
The best comparison or measure of AC lc 763 pilot wages will be vs. the Sunwing 763 pilot wages, and perhaps TS 332 pilot wages. AC lc will compete against Sunwung....not Jetstar. Hence, what Jetstar 332 pilots make is completely irrelevant to AC pilots. I suspect the Ac lc 763 pilot wages will still be higher than Sunwing......

The difference being the the Sunwing B763 pilots are not Sunwing pilots!

Doesn't matter. The market place does not care. If Sunwing can operate the 763 on leisure routes more cheaply than AC lc, with or without Sunwing pilots, then the spoils (ie. profits) will go to Sunwing, not AC.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
FI642
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:18 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 18):
Why do airlines keep trying to offer the low frills operation, within a carrier concept? I can't think of anytime it has worked.


That is EXACTLY what I am thinking! Hello boys and girls, it doesn't work! Cannibalizing your own traffic is not a sound business decision.
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting FI642 (Reply 42):
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 18):
Why do airlines keep trying to offer the low frills operation, within a carrier concept? I can't think of anytime it has worked.


That is EXACTLY what I am thinking! Hello boys and girls, it doesn't work! Cannibalizing your own traffic is not a sound business decision.



My thoughts exactly, why try to be Macy's when you really Target! I think at some point who have to have a clear vision of who you are and run with it. Stop be reactive and be proactive.

The sad thing is the Charter and so called low cost carriers are upping there game and the legacy are downing down the product in attempts to compete.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
polaris
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RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:48 pm

Quoting pesit4a (Reply 33):
Quoting pesit4a (Reply 33):
Does anyone know if the Dublin route will be year round or remain seasonal as with mainline?

Today's Air Canada media release (re: interline agreement with Aer Lingus) states the intention of going year-round on the Dublin route - whether mainline or otherwise remains to be seen.

[Edited 2012-09-21 11:51:10]
 
RP TPA
Topic Author
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 1999 9:40 am

RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 34):
AC recently started an e-tkt interline agreement with Aer Lingus, so I would assume the YYZ-DUB route would remain seasonal. During the off season AC can route passengers through LHR.

Further info on this, recently updated on AirCanada.com. AC/EI codeshares, starting next year, year-round flights, and both carriers moving to LHR T2 (I assume this is the new, yet to be completed terminal).
 
YVRLTN
Posts: 2339
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:00 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 38):
Jetstar's success is one of the driving factors for this new venture

But its robbing Peter to pay Paul. JQ is doing great. QF not so much.

I think the likes of CUN & PUJ will be early destinations.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:04 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 38):
and 140 seat A319 configuration has been rumoured.

Compared to EasyJet's 156 seats on A319s, that sounds quite spacious.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3310
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:52 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 46):
But its robbing Peter to pay Paul. JQ is doing great. QF not so much.

You could look at it that way, however without JQ would there actually still be a QF? Thats the big question. AC would be looking at its figures and asking the same question constantly.

It has to do with being competitive, and the cost structure of carriers like QF or AC just cant cut it against many of the competitors. Implementing a LCC solution to at least hold the entire groups operating position in a healthier position is likely the only way to achieve this.
 
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longhauler
Posts: 6438
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Air Canada "lc" Airline...Speculation On Routes?

Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:58 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 39):
I suspect the Ac lc 763 pilot wages will still be higher than Sunwing......

You suspect wrong.

In fact the contract Sunwing B767 pilots were making more than current AC B767 wages, even before the 40% pay cut to fly the LCC. I did some of their "Learn how to fly in Canada" training, and if I hadn't seen their actual contract, I never would have believed it.

You seem to think I am trying to justify pilot wages, but in fact I think you are missing my point. And ... my point is that if pilot wages have no effect on the profitability of an airline, then lowering them does not fix the profit problem, it only masks it!

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 46):
But its robbing Peter to pay Paul. JQ is doing great. QF not so much.

That is one possibility, or maybe the execs at Qantas saw where the industry was going. And knowing that the average passengers would rather a 2 star, but cheap airline over a 4 star but more expensive airline ... it would make sense to get into that mindset early.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 48):
You could look at it that way, however without JQ would there actually still be a QF? That's the big question. AC would be looking at its figures and asking the same question constantly.

I am thinking this is more likely. QF/JQ is an excellent example, and why it merits consideration when discussing AC, even though they are on the other side of the earth. QF offers an excellent product, but clearly people would prefer to pay less and fly on JQ. It really was only a matter of time before the whole LCC concept spread to international flying.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 47):

Compared to EasyJet's 156 seats on A319s, that sounds quite spacious.

Yikes! Don't tell AC!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!

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