rj777
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:27 am

So if WN goes Island hopping, it looks like they will be the replacement (Albeit several years late) for Aloha.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:31 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 30):
No, they ended it because the are evolving into an airline that doesn't need so many flights in the Northwest

Airlines don't cut profitable flying. WN cut the Northwest because it couldn't afford to continue flying as much capacity in the Northwest.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 28):
And a res system has nothing to do with being able to compete with AS.

AS can do all kinds of things WN cannot, like charge bag fees for example. Or codeshare with DL's Pacific flying out of SEA, or AA, or sell international tickets....
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:48 am

ANOTHER a.net rumor that was bs this week about swa not even going thru with etops
 
PHX787
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:03 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 5):
PHX? HOU? SAN?
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 7):
Well I did say SAN but PHX may be reachable (not sure) but it would probably be too tight for SWA and HOU is not reachable without stoping. I could see PHX and HOU as well as others served with a no plane change but not nonstop

PHX may have to be extremely weight-restrained. I also think that if WN gets the 739MAX, they'd have the capabilities to fly PHX-HNL. HOU- nope. Not without stopping.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 50):
So if WN goes Island hopping, it looks like they will be the replacement (Albeit several years late) for Aloha.

IIRC, Island hopping is extremely unprofitable.
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Maverick623
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:08 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 5):
PHX? HOU? SAN?

Possibly PHX, although as said the airplanes they have will take severe weight restrictions.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 10):
WN serves over 100,000,000 people each year currently, I'm sure some of them would stick with WN to Hawaii too. WN has a lot of connection possibilities.

I've actually seen it more than once where someone will book a flight to the Islands from a West coast city, and use WN to get to and from that city.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
ASFlyer
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:09 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 24):
With Redeye's they will get a lot better.

What do redeyes have to with Southwest being good or not at transcons (or flights of similar length)

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 34):
AS didn't bring anything where as SWA brings some things.

The biggest thing AS brought were direct flights in markets that didn't have them already - that's a whole lot more meaningful than wifi or, dare I say, 2 free bags. What AS has that WN doesn't is a much more meaningful frequent flyer program, meals for purchase, assigned seats and a First Class cabin.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 36):
I certainly hope the Caribbean area comes online before HI. AK as well for that matter.

Southwest could have been flying to Alaska a long time ago if they had wanted to - with the equipment that they already have. In fact, Morris Air flew to Alaska. I fully expect them to start flying to Alaska at some point, but not in a huge way at all I don't think.

Quoting flyer737sw (Reply 38):
A strong rumor has it that WN will start into Hawaii with a bang.
Service will enter into the islands to HNL, OGG and KOA
From the mainland cities include, SEA, PDX, OAK, SJC, SMF, LAX, ONT, SNA and SAN to start. (yes start)

I'll believe it when I see it - I have serious doubt about WN's Hawaii intentions. As I said before, WN management is smart about where they deploy their valuable assets. I don't think they're going to devote a lot of their resources to this, but we'll see. Rumors in the airline industry are rampant.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 43):
It may be a gimmick but it works. Southwest continues to fill its planes so I don't see how the fares matter in this case.

That explains why Southwest's year end load factor for 2011 was 80.9%, while Alaska's was 85.2%. Southwest isn't even in the top 5 airlines as far as load factors go. Sure, 80.9% isn't anything to sneeze at but it doesn't seem the baggage fees are hurting other airlines a whole lot.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 50):
So if WN goes Island hopping, it looks like they will be the replacement (Albeit several years late) for Aloha.

I would bet my next years salary that WN isn't going to be doing any kind of significant island hopping. If they do any at all it would only be tag on service, but I doubt that's going to happen. Hawaiian folks like Hawaiian Airlines. GO can't even make it there.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 30):
The thing that gets me is the people saying SWA has ended so many routes in the Northwest because of AS. No, they ended it because the are evolving into an airline that doesn't need so many flights in the Northwest (i.e. Boise etc...)

Southwest, like every other airline in the U.S., needs profitable flying. They don't cut profitable routes. If these routes aren't profitable for Southwest but somehow are for Alaska than I would say that Alaska chased Southwest out of these markets. You can frame that any way you like but the facts are the facts. The only route that I can think of that Southwest has chased Alaska out of in the last 10 years was the SJC-AUS route. Not only has WN left a handful of markets that were dominated by AS in the last 10 years, but they have notably not started service from SoCal to the PNW. They are very strong in SoCal yet, for some reason, they don't seem to be able to make a business case in these markets. I don't think you're giving AS enough credit.
 
737tdi
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:25 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
WN is in for a rude awakening, IMO.




I have held my tongue for several years. AS is a great airline. Remember, we (WN) started with 3 airplanes 40? years ago. I think AS is in for a rude awakening. We will do it with the same amenities but do it cheaper. Just saying. We will see. I could fly no class and visit Hawaii.. We will see. I know you don't want us there. If I were you I would not want us there, but it's about profits and our guys seem to think that they can make it work. We will see.
 
ASFlyer
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:40 am

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 56):

I have held my tongue for several years. AS is a great airline. Remember, we (WN) started with 3 airplanes 40? years ago. I think AS is in for a rude awakening. We will do it with the same amenities but do it cheaper. Just saying. We will see. I could fly no class and visit Hawaii.. We will see. I know you don't want us there. If I were you I would not want us there, but it's about profits and our guys seem to think that they can make it work. We will see.

I think WN deserves all the respect it's given. They have turned the U.S. airline business upside down with their no nonsense style of doing business. They do well for a lot of reasons but in large part because they don't over promise and under deliver, something most airlines in the U.S airline industry have done for years. That said, I fail to see how WN is going to do this Hawaii flying cheaper. WN used to be the low fare leader but they aren't anymore. Major airlines have restructured through bankruptcy and are able to profitably offer the same low fares now. They brought the fares down in the U.S. and everyone else matched them. As far as whether WN management loves the Hawaii idea or not, we've yet to see if your guys think they can actually make it work or not - they haven't started it yet. Best of luck to all of us if they do - I think it's only going to hurt everyone and not be the cash cow that WN thought it might be.
 
san88
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:49 am

Since when did this thread become WN versus AS ...... SMH :/
sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN
 
barney captain
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:17 am

Quoting flyer737sw (Reply 38):
I am sure LAS and PHX will follow at a later time.

With what aircraft? Maybe the MAX, but certainly not the -800.

The -800 won't reliably make PHX/LAS to HI. Even out of some west coast cities it is very much a stretch. AS has issues with PDX/SEA - HNL and they have 19 fewer seats to try and lift, without all the "bags that fly free". Personally, I think we're years away from any HI flying, and that will likely only be from a few California cities.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Maverick623
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:27 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 55):
I have serious doubt about WN's Hawaii intentions.

Yep, they're just getting their planes ETOPS certified for the heck of it.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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STT757
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:36 am

A couple United corrections:

Lihue-
LAX, SFO, DEN (SA)

Kona-
LAX, SFO, DEN (SA)

Maui-
LAX, SFO, DEN (SA)

Hilo-
LAX

Honolulu-
LAX, SFO, DEN
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
AirframeAS
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:18 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 43):
Yes I do know that, but Gogo doesn't work over the Pacific ocean.

I don't care about that. The point I was making, again - in which you ignored, is that the wifi that AS offers is far more superior than what WN is offering.

By the way, airliner371, are you a WN employee? You sure sound like one after reading your posts.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 46):
I would be curious to see if WN moves some 717's to HNL to serve as in-state feeders.

One mo' time..... The 717's are going to DL.

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 56):
We will do it with the same amenities but do it cheaper.

Flying to Hawaii in any capacity is not cheap. End of story.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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RWA380
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting hiloboy1 (Reply 6):
This wouldn't be the first "Greyhound to HNL", if you were ever lucky/unlucky enough to fly on either Total Air or Air America you'll know what I mean

Three letters ATA......

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 9):
AA - LAX / SFO

IIRC, SFO-HNL was dropped by AA some years ago, I flew it in 2004 IIRC, on a 763, but was dropped shortly after that

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 19):
If WN has an operation in the islands, I wonder if they will also do some intra-hawaii stuff too.

Maybe as part of a triangle route, but not as an inter Island carrier. The newer generation 737's were not very good for AQ inter-island because the engines didn't have enough time to properly cool off between flights.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 28):
Yes, they can. They compete and have beaten AS in many routes

No they have not, in any route (with the exception of an odd inter-California route) AS has easily beaten WN head to head. The latest casualties have been in Spokane and Boise.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 30):
I had a list but it is not on my new computer for some reason. It included multiple routes outside of cali.

When you get that list, I think we all would love to read it, prove me wrong. I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong. WN is the sole surviving carrier PDX-RNO I think that is it.

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 33):
I wonder if they are copying AS or WestJet. WestJet has a 757 flying there so maybe WN will get one too. I would fly WestJet over WN as they have PTVs. WN doesn't, right?

WN has gone to great lengths to keep an all 737 fleet, They just dumped a lot of 717's that could have been useful replacements for 735 routes, to remain an all 737 carrier. I doubt WN will ever fly the 757 even wet leased.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 36):
AK as well for that matter

WN could have started AK flying whenever they wanted to, You think AS beat WN in the Northwest, the whooping would be much more severe if WN tried to encroach on the cash cow of AK to mainland 48 flying. Maybe WN will fly direct to Hawaii from Alaska. (Sorry couldn't resist)

Quoting flyer737sw (Reply 38):
SEA, PDX, OAK, SJC, SMF, LAX, ONT, SNA and SAN to start. (yes start)

Wow, really? PDX & SEA are not able to support more flights to Hawaii IMO. HA already pulled it's PDX-OGG flight, much to Alaskas pleasure I'm sure. But I doubt WN will commit the resources needed to offer PDX & SEA service to Hawaii in markets that they are not that strong in, and in fact they have been loosing ground in for some time now.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 43):
It may be a gimmick but it works

Sure does, most people I know that are normal, unlike an A.nutter, The one thing they do seem to know when they take their one trip a year, is that WN offers free bags, gimmick or not it brings many folks to the plane.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 50):
So if WN goes Island hopping, it looks like they will be the replacement (Albeit several years late) for Aloha

Never going to happen, Unless WN gets some 73S aircraft, the newer generation engines on the 737's do not cool properly between tight turns in the Inter Island markets. If WN was going to be Inter Island, they should have kept the 717's, then that would have been a HNL base for WN, I doubt this is in the cards for WN. Too little profit to chase after.

I'd expect to see AS/QX doing Inter Island on Q400's before WN flying 738's Inter Island, even as a triangle routing.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
bobnwa
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:02 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 43):
It may be a gimmick but it works. Southwest continues to fill its planes so I don't see how the fares matter in this case.

How do you account that quite regularly, Southwest is last among US carriersin the monthly load factor report in ATW (Air transport World).
 
airliner371
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:14 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 62):
I don't care about that. The point I was making, again - in which you ignored, is that the wifi that AS offers is far more superior than what WN is offering.

By the way, airliner371, are you a WN employee? You sure sound like one after reading your posts

AS offers superior Wi-Fi. Did rather. Row44 last week (I think last week) actually doubled the speed of N. American Wi-Fi. If you have not been on a WN plane since then you dont' know but with it now, it is a tie if not WN now with the better Wi-Fi. I have flown FL a lot and yes thought it was faster, not anymore.

I am actually not an employee, I just hate it when AS people think they have the best airline in the world and are un defeat able. That thing AS people have is going to come and bite them in the butt one day when an airline attacks them and they think they can just do what they think they do.

I don't know about you but we can both go on all day. I think this is just getting annoying for both of us, we just have to agree to disagree.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 64):
How do you account that quite regularly, Southwest is last among US carriersin the monthly load factor report in ATW (Air transport World).

If they can make a profit but still fill their planes less I don't see what you could possibly be showing me.
 
ASFlyer
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:12 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 55):
I have serious doubt about WN's Hawaii intentions.

Yep, they're just getting their planes ETOPS certified for the heck of it.


Believe it or not, Hawaii isn't the only place that ETOP'S qualifications come in handy.
 
ak
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 12):
Don't really see the point of comments like these unless hey are to showcase the immaturity of the poster.

What a Jackass comment from from Mr. High and Mighty! Hows that for immaturity! Geez, some people on this site think they are just way above everyone else! This is a forum for opinions, not for smacking people down!
" I am serious...and don't call me Shirley!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:35 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 55):
I would bet my next years salary that WN isn't going to be doing any kind of significant island hopping. If they do any at all it would only be tag on service, but I doubt that's going to happen. Hawaiian folks like Hawaiian Airlines. GO can't even make it there.

They don't have the aircraft for it. HNL-OGG is a 23 minute flight. You simply cannot do that with the CFM's on the 73G without tearing the engines up. They are built to get up to cruise and stay there for at least five minutes to equilibrate before starting a descent. The 717 is perfect for that sort of mission.

Maybe the 733 can do it...
-Doc Lightning-

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questions
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting usairways787 (Reply 4):
Bags fly free on greyhound to HNL

Given all the comments in various forums about the "full service" legacy airlines and the old/dirty/worn/you-name-it aircraft they choose for flights to HI, WN might just be considered and "upgrade" for some fliers.

I think WN will do well.
 
questions
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:57 pm

Do any A320 variants have range and ETOPs to fly west coast US to HI? I'm thinking specifically about B6 and VX.
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:05 pm

I, for one, would be curious to see how much WN will invest in infrastructure in Hawai‘i with people, ground ops (above & below the wings), equipment, maintenance, etc. WN will definitely add more capacity to/from Hawai‘i.

As far as inter-island ... WN probably won't, they would have to allow long enough intervals between segments so that the birds don't become hangar queens as AQ did with their 737-300s and -400s used for inter-island ops in the early 90s. Plus, WN is selling all of their 717-200s to DL.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
MaverickM11
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 69):
Given all the comments in various forums about the "full service" legacy airlines and the old/dirty/worn/you-name-it aircraft they choose for flights to HI, WN might just be considered and "upgrade" for some fliers.

The same could be said for all the transcons WN has generally shied away from, so again I'm not sure what WN is bringing to the party beyond their loyalty program--which doesn't seem to be doing them any favors on transcons either.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting san88 (Reply 58):
Since when did this thread become WN versus AS ......

i agree it shouldnt be especially since i dont think southwest is targeting them. Its the legacies that Southwest will be the biggest pain for plus Hawiian. Southwest will probably be heavy at LAS and LAX which have no negative consequences for Alaska. If Southwest wanted to compete with Alaska they could but i just dont think they care about them its linking their national network to Hawaii is what they want.
 
airliner371
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:25 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 72):
I'm not sure what WN is bringing to the party beyond their loyalty program

Why does an airline need to bring something to the party? I have listed multiple things WN brings anyway. What did AS bring that other airlines didn't have? Nothing. Yet AS does great in Hawaii.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:33 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 74):
What did AS bring that other airlines didn't have?

Some of the lowest costs in the market
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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n901wa
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:48 pm

I wish Southwest Good luck with Hawaii ops. I personaly think it will not affect Alaska that much. Alaska and the other Carriers flying to Hawaii have there own fan base, and FF base, like Southwest. I think that Southwest will find a lot of seats will get filled with FF miles, like the others that fly to Hawaii. That is a good thing, It will help Southwest get rid of Awards, and attracts people to sign up for their FF program. I think it will come down to Airfair. Do they go crazy and offer cheap flights to Hawaii, or just offer another option to Hawaii?

In my humble opion, The Airline that might get hurt by Southwest flying to Hawaii, is Hawaiian. Hawaiian Draws on Vac Passengers from the Mainland with no FF ties or feed to Mainland Gateways without interlining, and Local People that will hunt low fares, and are not afraid to try something new. Again, it comes down to Price and what they plan to do with that. Don't Get me wrong. I love Hawaiian, and have a vested interest for HAL to be around a looong time ( Maybe thats why I am concerned). This is Not Hawaiian Bashing in no way, but if I was in upper management at HAL I would take Southwest seiorusly.

Like Bluewave 707, I would like to see how Southwest will staff Hawaii, Contract out the MTC and Agents? Or hire their own people and bring in the equipment? If Aloha was still around, it would have been a easy contract, with maybe a pool spare engine, and parts. I also wonder if Southwest is fencing in the -800 aircraft so the ETOPS Critical parts are being kept seperate from the rest of the 737 parts, or are they going to make all ETOPS Critical parts fleet wide, and if the CFMs on the -800 ETOPS will be on a seperate program from the non ETOPS CFMs. Again, Good luck to Southwest. Its a Big step
 
AirframeAS
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:06 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 65):
That thing AS people have is going to come and bite them in the butt one day when an airline attacks them and they think they can just do what they think they do.

Well, this is how I feel:

That thing WN people have is going to come and bite them in the butt one day when an airline attacks them and they think they can just do what they think they do.

WN has been cocky, too, as of late......
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
bjorn14
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:18 pm

Just curious as to why any FA would vote against Hawai'i? Was international in the scope of this vote too? Did the pilots vote too?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
aztrainer
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting flyer737sw (Reply 38):
From the mainland cities include, SEA, PDX, OAK, SJC, SMF, LAX, ONT, SNA and SAN to start. (yes start)

I am sure LAS and PHX will follow at a later time.

I could see them doing ONT as they have a major presence and it is an area of the LA area that it not serviced to HA.

LAS/PHX will see flights, but it will be a stop (no change of plane) flights. They would be way too close to the range on the planes and during the summer they may be very limited due to the 110+ temperatures. I also can see ONT getting the single stops from PHX and LAS for their flights to Hawai'i.

SNA is an interesting idea as AQ did have flights, but I do not know if they have any limitations due to the T/O procedures. OAK may go, but there is a lot of traffic from SFO.

LAX is going to be an interesting location for me on this. There is so much competition to and from Hawai'i from LAX.

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 71):
As far as inter-island ... WN probably won't, they would have to allow long enough intervals between segments so that the birds don't become hangar queens as AQ did with their 737-300s and -400s used for inter-island ops in the early 90s. Plus, WN is selling all of their 717-200s to DL.

Agree, AQ tried and failed at this and WN should pay attention on this. I think the interesting thing will be the timetables that they will use for their flights. Will they follow the HA style of 12:00 - 4:00 HST to the US 22:00 - 23:45 departures.
 
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SANFan
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:12 pm

I'm sure this question has been answered already (hopefully not on this thread since I've then missed it) but could someone please clarify whether WN's entire 738 fleet is ETOPS-certified or is there a subfleet only that is ready for those trans-oceanic missions? And while you're at it (whoever you are) what is the current fleet size of ETOPS a/c (and other non-ETOPS 738s if that's the answer to the first question) and how many more are coming to WN next year? Given some of the rumors on this thread, knowing these things might enlighten the discussions a bit... (Thanx in advance for the help.)

bb
 
usflyguy
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:27 pm

The owned -800's are ETOPS the leased ones are not. There are over 20 ETOPS planes in the fleet now and ETOPS is painted on the wheel well.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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SANFan
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:34 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 81):
The owned -800's are ETOPS the leased ones are not. There are over 20 ETOPS planes in the fleet now and ETOPS is painted on the wheel well.

What took you so long!  

Wow, thank you for the speedy reply and the information. That is a good sized fleet already!

bb
 
ASFlyer
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:50 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 74):
What did AS bring that other airlines didn't have? Nothing. Yet AS does great in Hawaii.

Apparently, you didn't read what I wrote earlier, or did and just chose to ignore it because it made sense. Alaska brought nonstop flights in markets that didn't previously have them, that's what they brought. They started nonstop service in thin markets from the mainland to Hawaii. There are very few new routes that WN can offer with their ETOP's equipped -800's to Hawaii. AS does great in Hawaii because they offered something nobody else did on many routes - nonstops.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:26 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 78):

Just curious as to why any FA would vote against Hawai'i? Was international in the scope of this vote too? Did the pilots vote too?

Well, its a question of work vs pay, rest time, etc. They had to hammer out this new stuff to the satisfaction of both sides.

I think the mediation with the ground crew is about the opening up of more contract work... For Hawaii. Since atleast one report in the past made it sound like it was going to be highly seasonal and WN didn't want to lay off people every year for 1/2 the year. So they were looking to hire workers on contract for the high season. This of course will be a delicate negotiation since there is clearly going to be the fear on the unions part that this is the crack that allows WN to hire more and more "contract" workers at the expense of the union workers.
 
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zippyjet
Posts: 5110
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:56 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
I'll start the speculation:

I'll add my 2 cents worth.

BWI-DAL-BUR-HNL, BWI-DAL-LAS-HNL, BWI-DEN-SFO=HNL, LGA-DEN-LAX-HNL, MDW-LAS-HNL, BWI-OAK-HNL, BWI-CLE-MDW-LAX-HNL. BWI-BNA-BUR-HNL, FLL-HOU-SAN-HNL, MCO-DAL-LAX-HNL.

As you can see the possibilities are many.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4115
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:59 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 85):
BWI-DAL-BUR-HNL, BWI-DAL-LAS-HNL, BWI-DEN-SFO=HNL, LGA-DEN-LAX-HNL, MDW-LAS-HNL, BWI-OAK-HNL, BWI-CLE-MDW-LAX-HNL. BWI-BNA-BUR-HNL, FLL-HOU-SAN-HNL, MCO-DAL-LAX-HNL.

Well 3 of your examples aren't happening until the Wright Amendment is gone.  
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4712
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:23 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 66):

Believe it or not, Hawaii isn't the only place that ETOP'S qualifications come in handy.

Well, I don't see them flying to Europe anytime soon. I don't believe any of the AirTran markets are within ETOPS range... soo....

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 86):
Well 3 of your examples aren't happening until the Wright Amendment is gone.

It will be in 2014, which is probably right around the time WN will start service.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
airliner371
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:35 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 77):
WN has been cocky, too, as of late......

I have to disagree. WN has acknowledged that there are problems and they are working to fix them. AS on the other had has been the cocky ones (not you specifically).

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 83):
ignore it because it made sense

Now this is just uncalled for.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 83):
few new routes that WN can offer
Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 66):
I have serious doubt about WN's Hawaii intentions.

That doesn't mater, there don't have to be new routes to make a destination work. WN is flying DCA-STL. Not a new route from DCA but they make it work very well. The list goes on and on. Hawaii is not going to be the next Denver, don''t get me wrong but WN will come into Hawaii and operate the routes they choose and make it work. Clearly you think WN won't be able to do Hawaii or maybe you just hope it doesn't work but personally I'll stay on the side with airline executives that have years of experience.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5555
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:00 am

Quoting ak (Reply 67):
This is a forum for opinions, not for smacking people down!

I think that is correct too, however there are many that find relish in killing others ideas, and subsequently enjoyment of the conversation, I believe it's about sharing thoughts, questions, ideas & facts.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 68):
Maybe the 733 can do it...

Would have been done, as mentioned above, AQ had disastrous results with 733 and 734 Inter Island flights.

Quoting questions (Reply 70):
Do any A320 variants have range and ETOPs to fly west coast US to HI? I'm thinking specifically about B6 and VX.

Not currently, but IIRC the NEO's will change that, then VX and B6 could enter the market after their own ETOPS certification process.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 79):
OAK may go, but there is a lot of traffic from SFO.

There is a lot of OAK to Hawaii flights too, but OAK will be the connecting point for any WN passengers coming from PDX or SEA. I seriously doubt WN will fly from SFO to Hawaii. OAK, LAS, LAX are my guesses for mainland gateways.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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ha763
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Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:02 am

Quoting n901wa (Reply 76):
I would like to see how Southwest will staff Hawaii, Contract out the MTC and Agents? Or hire their own people and bring in the equipment? If Aloha was still around, it would have been a easy contract, with maybe a pool spare engine, and parts.

The only station I can see having WN staff is HNL if they have at least 6 daily flights. Aloha Air Cargo's Tech Ops can easily get the maintenance contract as they already do maintenance for Alaska and Westjet.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 85):
BUR-HNL

AQ had a hard time doing it with a 73G and weight restrictions. I doubt WN would even try it with a 738.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:24 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 88):
I have to disagree.

Disagree all you want. They have been cocky as if late. Remember DEN? Oh, yeah, that little place with the little airline they tried to kill......
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
airliner371
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:23 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 91):
emember DEN? Oh, yeah, that little place with the little airline they tried to kill......

Its people from other airlines that want to say they tried to kill F9. They went to Denver, they did well and they expanded. Frontier was not a target or a threat to WN but as WN expanded F9 was hurt. Expansion isn't cocky.

[Edited 2012-09-23 06:25:10]
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4115
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:06 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 92):
Its people from other airlines that want to say they tried to kill F9. They went to Denver, they did well and they expanded. Frontier was not a target or a threat to WN but as WN expanded F9 was hurt. Expansion isn't cocky.

Regardless of who signs my pay check, WN went into DEN at the sole reason to become the dominant player. The first attempt was to purchase Frontier, which they lost out to Republic due to WN's unions not really being on board. So since that failed their next push was to do it themselves. Which they did and in a very big way.

Cocky isn't a bad thing though if you have the stuff to back it up. 39 years of profitability and no major labor issues while being the most unionized airline in the country helps with that. Yes there are disagreements and stress points with labor, but nothing like the drama at US Airways or American for example.

If Southwest did have that "swagger" it wouldn't accomplish half of what it has been able to do. That confidence gives it the muscle to take on aggressive plans and make them work. It also means the company will look for opportunities where there is weakness that could yield a significant return. Baltimore and Denver are probably the two biggest examples. US Airways was doing the Chapter 11 thing and the BWI hub was falling apart. WN ran in and claimed it. United was in bankruptcy and Frontier the same...DEN was one of the biggest markets they were missing out on. The went at it and made it work. We could be seeing the same now with ATL. AirTran, while not heading towards Chapter 11, essentially was capping out on growth options without running into significant competition from WN and other carriers. FL started to hesitate about its ability to stand alone and WN dove at the opportunity. There are also plenty of examples when things haven't turned out well (PHL), but that is to be expected.

Say AA/US do merger and for whatever insane reason they start to pull down CLT. You don't think WN will jump all over that? The company is ran by extremely smart people that know how to make money. Some decisions haven't turn out as first thought, but you can't wine very battle. Cocky isn't a bad thing. It allows you to be successful in what you do. Look at other examples...Mike O'Leary, Richard Branson, and even Bill Gates (though not industry related). They were/are cocky and very successful.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3000
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RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:29 pm

have to ask permission.....................this is whats wrong with unions.
 
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DeltaMD90
Posts: 8518
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:58 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 94):
have to ask permission.....................this is whats wrong with unions.

From what I understand, it was mostly a "it isn't in our contract, let's negotiate" and they did without much trouble. I doubt WN was begging the FAs for a while. Could be wrong

And I'm not the most pro-union guy either
 
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kgaiflyer
Posts: 2741
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 am

RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):WN is not very good at transcons

WN is in for a rude awakening, IMO.

I'm puzzled by the comment -- having flown both WN's LAX-BWI and SAN-BWI. And formerly, their SJC-BWI flight.

Exactly how are they "not very good?"
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 21589
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:20 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 94):

have to ask permission.....................this is whats wrong with unions.

I'm a physician, an independent contractor, and most certainly not in a union (physicians can't unionize in many states). Whenever my "employer" wants to make a minor change to my conditions, they have to have me sign off of it. Yes, even if we were going to move my office across the street, I'd have to sign off on it since the physical address of my practice is specified in the contract.

So this is nothing unusual or even unique to unions.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2725
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 93):
Regardless of who signs my pay check, WN went into DEN at the sole reason to become the dominant player. The first attempt was to purchase Frontier, which they lost out to Republic due to WN's unions not really being on board. So since that failed their next push was to do it themselves. Which they did and in a very big way.

your timeline is wrong, WN was back at DEN when the F9 asset sale happened. WN put in a bid not to buy DEN, but more for the entire route network.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2054
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

RE: SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii

Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:38 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 28):
SWA can fly with higher yielding pax

Since when did WN attract a higher-yield clientele than their competitors? With no FC and cattle-call seating they were desperate to increase their yields, hence they started Business Select. Was this a big success?

Quoting flyer737sw (Reply 38):
From the mainland cities include, SEA, PDX, OAK, SJC, SMF, LAX, ONT, SNA and SAN to start. (yes start)

To start? Do you realize how many a/c that would take? AND crews? There's no way...not to mention the list of cities is not likely if not impossible in the case of SNA.

It takes one a/c per day to fly to Hawaii and back. The red-eye language to the agreement allows for higher a/c utilization but there's a reason no one flies red-eyes west-bound...you get to Hawaii at 2am. Ugh.

So for just one flight a day from each of those cities (minus SNA) that would be eight a/c per day....and that is to only ONE city such as HNL. OGG now 16, KOA now 24 a/c needed, etc. Not to mention the hundreds of crew needed to support it. Not saying it won't happen to but to START? Absurd unless you cannibalize the rest of the network.



Quoting 737tdi (Reply 56):
I could fly no class and visit Hawaii..

Myself, I can't imagine traveling with my family to Hawaii with WN. No advance seating, no (current) food options for a 6 hour flight...although you would save money on checked luggage I'll give WN that. WN is good for little hops but they can't compete when it comes to transcons and I don't see Hawaii being any different.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 73):
its linking their national network to Hawaii is what they want.

It's all for the FF'ers...they want to redeem for Hawaii. They've been likely begging for it for years. If Rapid Rewards is as generous as they say (no limit on awards seats) then watch those Hawaii yields plummet.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 89):
There is a lot of OAK to Hawaii flights too, but OAK will be the connecting point for any WN passengers coming from PDX or SEA. I seriously doubt WN will fly from SFO to Hawaii. OAK, LAS, LAX are my guesses for mainland gateways.

Agreed....OAK, LAS and LAX with SAN and SJC likely as well. SNA is impossible with the -800 and the ONT airport is a ghost town. You won't see them try PDX or SEA...AS owns those markets and WN would lose big-time.

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