AIR MALTA
Topic Author
Posts: 1789
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:45 am

BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:49 pm

I was browing the BA timetable and I was surprised to see BA dding 3 daily flights to Alicante from Gatwick.

Departures from LGW at 06:40, 11:35 and 18:45...

This comes as a surprise. It seems that BA has decided to take on U2 on some mleisure destinations including BCN and NCE.

Do you think we might see some more changes to LGW?
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Posts: 1950
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:23 pm

Well this isn't until Summer 2013 (checking ba.com) but it is good to see BA adding this route back to LGW.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8307
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:27 pm

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:30 pm

Good to see.

On another note, flew BA to AGP & back the other day, another route where they compete with Easyjet.

Full loads, including Club, on both sectors, good to see BA.
111 732 733 734 735 736 73G 738 739,7M8 BBJ 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 764 772 77L 773 77W L15 D10 D30 D40 AB3 AB6 312 313 318 319 320 20N 321 21N 332 333 342 343 345 346 359 351 388 CS1 CS3 I86 154 SSJ CRJ CR7 CR9 CRK 145 170 175 220
 
Summa767
Posts: 1847
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:03 pm

BA will operate LHR-ALC 3 times a week (F.S.S.) from the end of October. At the moment it appears as continuing into the Summer season, but one would expect that it's liable to disappear if BA needs the slots for something else.

A very welcome addition to the offer between London and Alicante.
 
sam1987
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:27 pm

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:40 pm

I assume the two new routes for 2013 (BCN and ALC) are replacing MRS and BLQ once they've gone up the road to LHR, both of which are similar lengths and operate three per day.
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
KaiTak747
Posts: 347
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:08 pm

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:14 pm

No surprise there, ALC is a huge market for the UK. I wonder how many flights there are from the UK to ALC in peak season with BA, EZ, Monarch, Ryanair, Jet2, Thomson, Thomas Cook.... and probably other carriers on the route.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 5):
No surprise there, ALC is a huge market for the UK.

As an example, ALC was the 4th busiest international destination from LGW for their 2011/12 financial year ending March 31, 2012.

LGW's 10 busiest international routes for that period (source LGW website):

1. Malaga
2. Dublin
3. Madrid
4. Alicante
5. Geneva
6. Faro
7. Orlando
8. Amsterdam
9. Dubai
10. Palma de Mallorca
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:32 pm

Good news for BA at LGW, but what it really needs is BA management to approve the purchase of new aircraft.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4675
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:46 pm

What it needs is a cost base that can be profitable on short haul. Not much point buying shiny metal to increase losses.
 
heebeegb
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:01 pm

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:06 pm

BA LGW finally starting to make sense and they seem to have at last understood what SH routes they should operate from the airport.

Shame they have retracted so much, didnt buy GT in 2008, and seemingly misunderstood the LGW market for so many years allowing orange to dominate.

Maybe with the restructuring at BA LGW the cost base may allow them to survive at the airport and grow? and heaven forbid get a replacement for the 734s in time!
 
GSTBA
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:20 am

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:36 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Thread starter):
Do you think we might see some more changes to LGW?

According to this report BA will announce another short haul route from LGW in S13.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articl...serts+commitment+to+caribbean.html

There are loads of possibilities for this route. I think the route could either be SPU or MLA.

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 7):
Good news for BA at LGW, but what it really needs is BA management to approve the purchase of new aircraft.

BA plan to begin retiring the 734's from the fleet during W12/13. Details of when and what aircraft will be retired is yet to be finalised .As a result BA are planning to increase the number of A319's operated from LGW during the S13 season compared to S12. BA plan to transfer 6 or possibly 7 A319's from LHR to LGW compared to 3 to 4 in S12.

A significant announcement is expected to be made by BA by the end of October. The announcement is expected to contain details of routes etc for the A380 & 787 and there is a chance it will also contain a large aircraft order.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4675
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 10):
BA plan to transfer 6 or possibly 7 A319's from LHR to LGW compared to 3 to 4 in S12

More LHR hand me downs?
 
by738
Posts: 3060
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:50 pm

Which for staff and loyal users is better than Heathrow close me downs
 
GSTBA
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:20 am

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
More LHR hand me downs?

In the short term yes. BA need to begin removing the 734 fleet due to them becoming increasingly unreliable. Have heard from a good source the a replacement fleet of aircraft are to be announced by year end at latest and begin to be delivered in late 2013 or early 2014 and will be made up by exercising options already held by IAG .

IAG currently hold 31 options on A320 family aircraft and 15 E-Jets. The E-Jet options are for the E170/E175/E190 and E195 aircraft. I have heard BA's board has been evaluating operating both the E-Jet's and A320 family aircraft from LGW. If BA opt to operate the E190 from LGW it is expected that they will operate with higher capacity than the aircraft currently op for BACF.

The new LGW fleet is expected to consist of either:

15 x 162 seater A320's and 10 x 132 seater A319's

or

15 x 162 seater A320's and 10 x E190 (104 seater) or E195's (114 seater)
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4675
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:52 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 12):
loyal users

would like reliability and as you must be aware, the oldest A319s are going the way of the B734, some are only 5 years younger. There are already reliabilty issues on the LHR fleet.

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 13):
. Have heard from a good source the a replacement fleet of aircraft are to be announced by year end at latest and begin to be delivered in late 2013 or early 2014 and will be made up by exercising options already held by IAG .

How are they getting orders firmed up and delievered in such a short timescale? That sounds unlikely in the timescale, however good news if true. Have they got agreement from the unions on new ts and cs?

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 13):
If BA opt to operate the E190 from LGW it is expected that they will operate with higher capacity than the aircraft currently op for BACF.

There's no need to keep them under 100 seats as per SCOPE if they're flying under mainline, however that will mean LGW will have an inferior product to LCY! OUCH!

However I must say, the ERJ would be much better for the domestics, hope it comes true.

[Edited 2012-09-30 15:54:22]
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:56 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 14):
How are they getting orders firmed up and delievered in such a short timescale?

It was reported sometime ago that IB had firmed up options on five 320s and that after delivery they would be sold to BA. This was discussed here more than two years ago:

IB Exercises 5 A320 Options And Sells To BA (by JerseyFlyer Jun 5 2010 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4830599&searchid=4831567&s=ba+ib+320+order#ID4831567

BA also detailed in either their 2009 or 2010 Annual Report - I forget which - that they had 31 outstanding options on 320 family aircraft. If these options have not lapsed - I have seen nothing official about them since - they were almost certainly tied to specific delivery dates.

There is also the matter of the BD 319s and/or short-haul configured BD 320s that will be freed up when BA cedes 13 of the 15 daily slot pairs it currently operates out of LHR but will have to hand over next March as part of their agreement to be allowed to buy BD. In itself this represents the equivalent of at least two or perhaps three aircraft. Note here that the other two slots are currently operated by medium haul aircraft to DME. So those airfcraft could be converted to a short-haul configuration along with any other medium haul aircraft that may b e displaced from LHR by new long haul operations such as the ICN service..

So if the IB purchase and sale is still alive and even if all the BA options have lapsed, we are sttill looking at the equivalent of around an additional seven or eight A319/320s becoming available.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:20 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 15):
There is also the matter of the BD 319s and/or short-haul configured BD 320s that will be freed up when BA cedes 13 of the 15 daily slot pairs

Just remembered that BA currently operates the three-times daily TXL-LHR-TXL (LH3372/73, LH3374/75, LH3376/77) rotations for LH with an ex-BD 319 (usually G-DBCA). Similarly they operate the three-times daily MAN-FRA-MAN rotations (LH949/42, LH943/46, LH947/48) and BHX-FRA-BHX (LH959/54, LH955/56, LH957/58) rotations with ex-BD 320s. As these rotations will cease at the end of this month, this will free up a further three aircraft, namely one 319 and two 320s.
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3645
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:13 am

BA has new A320s being delivered next year.
UYO arrives in Jun 13, followed by UYP and UYR in Jul and Aug.
In the first half of 2014 UYS UYT UUU UUV and UUW are due for delivery.

No idea if these are BA options, or IB aircraft.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA: New 3 Daily LGW-ALC

Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:03 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 17):
UYO arrives in Jun 13, followed by UYP and UYR in Jul and Aug.
In the first half of 2014 UYS UYT UUU UUV and UUW are due for delivery.

Thanks for that.

Since late September 2011 there have been at any one time usually two BA 320 family aircraft undergoing wing inspection and maintenance at BA's engineering hangar at PIK. Almost invariably one aircraft has been ferried to PIK on the same day that another has been flown out of PIK for a return to service. Including the two 319s currently at PIK (G-EUPG and 'OE) a total of 43 of BA's purchased fleet of 85 aircraft have already each spent between ten and thirty-six calendar days there. However to date the youngest aircraft to visit PIK is 320 G-EUUU (leaving 19 younger 320s plus the two 318s that have not and might not go through the PIK maintenance procedures). With between around 20 and 42 aircraft still to visit PIK, this maintenance programme should be completed sometime between April and Sep[tember next year. On compledtion BA will effectively add two aircraft to their operational short-haul fleet.

Add the eight new 320s detailed by Tristarsteve that are to be delivered by mid 2014 to these two aircraft.

Now add the three ex-BD aircraft currently being operated on behalf of LH - see Reply 16. Then add the, say, three additional ex-BD aircraft that will be freed up by the slot transfer and discontinuance of former BD flights to EDI and elsewhere - see Reply 15.

Now subtract one aircraft that will operate the new three-times daily BA LHR-LBA-LHR rotation.

The total comes to 15 319/320 aircraft. Compare this number to the BA LGW fleet of 19 734s.

Hmmm . . .

Whatever BA are clearly going to have significantly more operational short haul aircraft over the next 18 or 20 months. This is when I was expecting to see an expansion of BA long-haul flights and a further contraction of former BD short-haul flights to provide the necessary LHR slots when the necessary additional long-haul capacity became available. If that happens it would free up additional short-haul capacity.

So it is just feasible that everything is in place for the LGW 734 fleet to be retired before end 2014. Or are we going to see a significant expansion of BA short-haul operations out of LGW or even elsewhere?

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