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burnsie28
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:52 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 19):
And, in true Delta fashion, the last operator of the type in passenger service in the US (well, counting the majors, not guys like Champion Air). They were still flying 727's in the early 2000's

Are you talking normal passenger service? NW flew charter flights on the 727 until late 2003, the last "normal" flight though was January 7, 2003, DEN-MSP NW Flight 560
 
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n901wa
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:02 am

Thanks fellow DL_Mech   I thought we had sme 225s. I forgot about the shuttle 727 with the nose brakes. Never got to change one with brakes.

zippyjet some info for you on your Connie quest. Delta did fly the short Connies. they got 6 L-649a from the Chicago and Southern Merger, and sold off in 1954-55 ( 1 even worked its way to Western Airlines thru the Pacific Northern Merger, and flew untill Dec 1968 ), and they bought 4 L-049s from PAA in 1956 and sold in 1958. I do have pictures I wish I could share, but they are Delta Pictures, so I can't post them, Very sorry. Here's a link to Delta's write up in the Museum

http://www.deltamuseum.org/M_Educati...ircraft_Lockheed_Constellation.htm
 
bigbird
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:10 am

Even though Fed Ex did not start operating 727s until the early 70s and only received 15 newly delivered directly from Boeing I think that they will have operated the type longer than any other by the time the last one is WFU.
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mayor
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:30 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 46):

Connies in the 50's? Never could find a picture of a DL Conny. I believe I learned from A-Net that DL was going to lease or buy used Connies from Pan Am but, they were so roached out (worn) that DL never put them in revenue service hence the literal non-existance of pictures. However if I'm wrong please correct me and post pictures.
DL got Connies from Chicago & Southern when they merged in '53. DL also had 4 that they bought from PA and operated from '56 until '58 and were sold to American Flyers in '60. I don't have any photos available, but my reply #30, will show a chart from the Delta Heritage Museum website that shows that DL did, indeed have Connies.


There are some photos and drawings in the book "Delta, The Illustrated History of an Airline and the People Who Made It" by the late R.E.G. Davies.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 47):

The real oddball was the DL shuttle -243 with nosewheel brakes and composite hard panels (non velcro) in the airstair area.

Were these ex-EA or ex-PA birds? I know we had -247s from WA and -295s from NE.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 32):
Quoting mayor (Reply 18):
I seem to remember that ship #546 was the 1000th one that was delivered to any airline from Boeing. It seems that there was another milestone 727 that we took delivery of, but not really sure about that.


546 was the final factory delivery......474 was the "1000th."

Here's what I was referring to.....this came from the Museum website, too......these are notable 727s that were in DL's fleet.....


"500th 727 produced by Boeing (delivered to Northeast).
1,000th 727 produced by Boeing, January 1974."

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 50):

Are you talking normal passenger service? NW flew charter flights on the 727 until late 2003, the last "normal" flight though was January 7, 2003, DEN-MSP NW Flight 560
DL's last "normal" 727 flight was on April 6, 2003. Not sure about charters past that time.

Quoting n901wa (Reply 45):
Or maybe they were the ExPAA German fleet 727s. Its been a long time

I was pretty sure that DL swapped the PA 727s that were used on the Shuttle, with some EA ones and then the ex-PA ones were sent to Europe.


Found some DL Connie pics.....




[Edited 2012-09-28 20:36:58]
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American 767
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:37 am

You are forgetting Air France. Air France was a major 727 operator in Europe, during the 70s and 80s. Air France flew the 727 from the late 60s until the early 90s when the A320 replaced it. However, they never flew any 100s. They flew only 200s. If we talk about major non US operators of the 727, Air France definitely has to be mentioned.

Ben Soriano
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zippyjet
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:03 am

Quoting n901wa (Reply 51):
Quoting mayor (Reply 53):

Thank you both for the info I'll check out the DL site when I get to my computer. I totally forgot about C & S. When I think of C & S I think of old beater DC 3 and DC 4's.

What routes did DL fly their Connies? Both the Pan Am sloppy seconds and the old C & S birds? I'd guess they did routes such as MIA-ATL-MDW back in the day of the propliner era. And can you confirm or challenge the idea that the Connies procurred from Pan Am were very well worn and saw limited DL service?  
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deltal1011man
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:06 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 30):
McDonnell Douglas MD-11 Jet 1991-2005
McDonnell Douglas MD-88 Jet 1987-present

just a note.

Delta's first 8X aircraft were 82s, later converted to 88s. IIRC it was 901-908.
 
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b727fa
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:12 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 14):
85 delivered direct from Boeing....I'm not sure if they took any second hand 727's

RE: the 14 factory to NW. I worked on 281/282US sister ships years later at Sunworld, I believe only 281 was ex-Kiwi. 282 was???? Anyone?
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:15 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 53):
DL's last "normal" 727 flight was on April 6, 2003. Not sure about charters past that time.

I think they were done flying for Delta after that flight (minus the flight to the junk yard) I don't think Delta kept any around for anything though.
 
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mayor
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:16 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 55):

What routes did DL fly their Connies? Both the Pan Am sloppy seconds and the old C & S birds? I'd guess they did routes such as MIA-ATL-MDW back in the day of the propliner era. And can you confirm or challenge the idea that the Connies procurred from Pan Am were very well worn and saw limited DL service?

Looks like DL procured their Connies mostly to fly from Florida to New York. The book does not indicate that they were well worn and saw limited service. They were used for about 2 years. C&S used theirs, eventually from Detroit and Chicago, via MSY, to the Caribbean. I'm guessing that DL continued this service after the merger.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
FlyMKG
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:27 am

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 43):
Oddly enough, the first factory produced 727-200Fs were the only factory delivered 727s to FX and the last 727s off the line. I've seen one up close, they look odd without any plugged windows.

The FedEx 722Fs still have all the windows plugged. They are however missing both aft service doors and the forward service door. The only traditional doors are the L1 door and the aft airstairs. They also still have all four overwing emergency exits. Quite a few freighter conversions deactivate two of these emergency exits.

FlyMKG
 
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zippyjet
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:54 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 59):
Looks like DL procured their Connies mostly to fly from Florida to New York. The book does not indicate that they were well worn and saw limited service.

Thank you for the information. However, I thought DL didn't have "CAB" approval to fly the lucrative New York-Miami route. I thought that route was served by Eastern, National and Northeast.
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mayor
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:09 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 61):
However, I thought DL didn't have "CAB" approval to fly the lucrative New York-Miami route. I thought that route was served by Eastern, National and Northeast.

Sorry.......I should have said that they procured those Connies from PA to run from the "south" to New York
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
FX1816
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:30 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 11):
Allegheny just took a couple direct from Boeing...the rest were second hand or acquired via their mergers with PSA and Piedmont.

Although USAir did operate former PSA 727's they actually acquired them via Piedmont and not the merger with PSA, the 727's were gone from PSA before then.

Quoting bigbird (Reply 52):
Even though Fed Ex did not start operating 727s until the early 70s and only received 15 newly delivered directly from Boeing I think that they will have operated the type longer than any other by the time the last one is WFU.

Well FDX didn't acquire 721's until 1977/78 but you are probably right, when they retire them by 2015 they will probably have operated 727's just about as long or longer than anyone else.

FX1816
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:06 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 53):
Were these ex-EA or ex-PA birds? I know we had -247s from WA and -295s from NE.

Ex PA shuttle aircraft, but leased from CO.

Quoting mayor (Reply 53):
DL's last "normal" 727 flight was on April 6, 2003. Not sure about charters past that time.

Part of the reason for the DL 727 retirement was the deadline for installation of the hardened cockpit door. A couple of them squeeked out of ATL just before the deadline.......


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gregg Stansbery

Quoting FlyMKG (Reply 60):
The FedEx 722Fs still have all the windows plugged. They are however missing both aft service doors and the forward service door. The only traditional doors are the L1 door and the aft airstairs. They also still have all four overwing emergency exits.

The -2S2s were never built with pax window frames to plug, so technically they aren't plugged.....unlike the -233s, -247s etc.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:18 am

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 63):
Well FDX didn't acquire 721's until 1977/78 but you are probably right, when they retire them by 2015 they will probably have operated 727's just about as long or longer than anyone else.

If FX flies them until 2015, then they will beat UA by about a year.

UA 1964-2001

FX 1977-2015?
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
MEA-707
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:53 am

Iran Air operate 727s nonstop since 1965 and counting!
Northwest had them from 1964 to 2003= 39 years
I fear that FedEx won't pass them
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
zanl188
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:54 pm

Quoting FlyMKG (Reply 60):
Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 64):

Last 727F & last 727 built... I see window frames...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matthew Wallman - Jetwash Images

Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
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tb727
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:42 pm

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 47):
Yes, the -225s had the three position start lever and a different fire warning system (Systron Donner?).

Yes. I've been flying an ex-EA bird around all week, well month now, and it's the odd ball of the fleet for those items.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 67):
Last 727F & last 727 built... I see window frames...

I stand corrected.....Now where are those memory supplement pills.........
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
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mayor
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:59 pm

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 69):
I stand corrected.....Now where are those memory supplement pills.........

But then you gotta REMEMBER to take them  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
727LOVER
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:25 pm

Thanx for all the answers, guys. Glad to see so many still love the 727.

Someone was asking about NW. I dont know about the -100, but NW had 57 -251s

DL The oddball aircraft I always wondered about was N831L. Where did that one come from?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:28 pm

And NW had the 727 years before the RC merger/buyout. I first saw my first NW 727 in 1969.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
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Polot
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:44 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 71):
DL The oddball aircraft I always wondered about was N831L. Where did that one come from?

That is an ex-Western plane. Western was leasing it from ILFC (I believe since delivery).
 
Viscount724
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:11 pm

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 48):
PA did indeed take the 2 727s that Ozark ordered direct from Boeing. At least one was painted in full Ozark colors and it looked good.

The only A.net photo:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bevin Shively



Better photo here:

http://i.pbase.com/o6/93/825293/1/95152913.Sgdbb06T.N362PABoeing7272D4OzarkAirlines.jpg

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 71):

DL The oddball aircraft I always wondered about was N831L. Where did that one come from?

Ex-Western. Must have originally been ordered by leasing company ILFC due to the Q8 Boeing customer code.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 54):
You are forgetting Air France.

AF was the first non-US carrier to order and operate the 727-200, and only the 4th customer after Northeast, American, National and Continental. I think my first flight on a 727-200 was on AF LHR-ORY in April 1970
 
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zippyjet
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:54 am

Quoting n901wa (Reply 51):
http://www.deltamuseum.org/M_Educati...ircraft_Lockheed_Constellation.htm

[TUBE]L3cNh0azmas[/TUBE]

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 71):

I really appreciated the 727. Especially since I didn't get to fly again until 15 years later. The Reagan 80's were a looong decade for me. My last two flights were Eastern 727's May 30, 1980 and June 6 1980. BWI-MIA Eastern flight 173 and my last flight for 15 long years Eastern flight 172 MIA-BWI. I never thought by the time I became an FL crewmember the 727 would be in the end of it's twilight.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
FlyMKG
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:58 pm

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 47):
Yes, the -225s had the three position start lever and a different fire warning system (Systron Donner?).
Quoting tb727 (Reply 68):
Yes. I've been flying an ex-EA bird around all week, well month now, and it's the odd ball of the fleet for those items.

The 2S2Fs also have the three position start levers.

FlyMKG
 
milesrich
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:40 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 61):
Quoting mayor (Reply 59):
Looks like DL procured their Connies mostly to fly from Florida to New York. The book does not indicate that they were well worn and saw limited service.

Thank you for the information. However, I thought DL didn't have "CAB" approval to fly the lucrative New York-Miami route. I thought that route was served by Eastern, National and Northeast.

DL had Connies twice, the L-649's upgraded to 749's from C&S that were sold to TW and leased to PNA in 1954 as the DC-7's were delivered and four ex-PA L-049's that were purchased when the New York/PHL/BAL/DCA route from ATL was awarded in 1956. They were upgraded to L-149's and then were grounded two years later. It took another two years to "sell" them to American Flyers Airlines, Reed Pigman's Supplemental. DL did not have Northeast Mid Atlantic routes to Florida until they bought NE in 1972.
EA, NA, and NE did have a oligopoly on those routes.
 
skymiler
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:43 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 18):
but I seem to remember that ship #546 was the 1000th one that was delivered to any airline from Boeing. It


I flew on this ship several times -- not only was there an annotation painted on the fuselage, but there was a small plaque on the wall at the boarding door.

Wonder if anybody saved the plaque when she was retired?
I love to fly, and it shows!
 
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mayor
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:22 am

Quoting skymiler (Reply 78):

I flew on this ship several times -- not only was there an annotation painted on the fuselage, but there was a small plaque on the wall at the boarding door.

Wonder if anybody saved the plaque when she was retired?

I can't remember but I wonder if ship #474, the actual 1000th 727 delivered, had a plaque, also?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:54 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 54):
You are forgetting Air France. Air France was a major 727 operator in Europe, during the 70s and 80s. Air France flew the 727 from the late 60s until the early 90s when the A320 replaced it. However, they never flew any 100s. They flew only 200s. If we talk about major non US operators of the 727, Air France definitely has to be mentioned.

Ben Soriano

What about Lufthansa didnt they have quite a few 727s aswell, if you are going to include European airlines.
 
skymiler
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:12 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 79):
I can't remember but I wonder if ship #474, the actual 1000th 727 delivered, had a plaque, also?


Yes, indeed, just inside the boarding door.

I caught this ship several times -- in fact I remember making a last minute flight switch from AA to DL one Saturday morning in the mid 70's (before deregulation days so one could change tickets/carriers on a whim!!) when travelling BDL -> PHL.

I spotted the ship's # and realised what was at the gate and wanted simply to say I flew the 1,000th!.
I love to fly, and it shows!
 
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deltacto
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:59 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 71):
DL The oddball aircraft I always wondered about was N831L. Where did that one come from?

N831L was one of the 727's acquired from Western
It was a 727-2Q8
2Q8 is the Boeing Customer Code for ILFC

http://www.airlinecodes.co.uk/boeing.asp

http://www.geocities.com/~aeromoe/fleets/delta.html

This geocities site shows the model numbers of all DL 727's
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:16 pm

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 63):
Although USAir did operate former PSA 727's they actually acquired them via Piedmont and not the merger with PSA, the 727's were gone from PSA before then.

Yep, PSA phased our their 727s by 1984 and the ill-fated US gutting of PSA was in 1988. I believe PSA was one of the first, if not the first, airlines to phase out their 727 fleet in favor of more fuel efficient models (Bae146 and MD-80s).
 
Type-Rated
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:34 pm

Quoting skymiler (Reply 81):
ne Saturday morning in the mid 70's (before deregulation days so one could change tickets/carriers on a whim!!)

Those were the days, weren't they? Day coach tickets became night first class, you could take almost any indirect routing you wanted to as long as your destination remained the same. I picked up a lot of airlines and aircraft types like that in my early years.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
skycub
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:32 pm

A few notes (some of which may have already been mentioned) about final 727 flights....

Northwest Airlines
Final scheduled flight: Flight 560 Denver-Minneapolis on January 7, 2003.

Delta Air Lines
Final scheduled flight: Greensboro-Atlanta on April 6, 2003. Aircraft N283WA.

American Airlines:
Final scheduled flight: Flight 765 Tampa-Miami on April 30, 2002.

Continental Airlines
Final scheduled flight: Denver-Houston Intercontinental on November 28, 1999. Aircraft N572PE.

Trans World Airlines
Final scheduled flight: New Orleans-Saint Louis on September 30, 2000. Aircraft N64339. (This was also the aircraft involved in the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847.)

United Airlines:
Final scheduled flight: Denver to Oakland on October 30, 2001. Aircraft N7449U.

USAir (Mainline)
Final scheduled flight: August 30, 1995.

USAir (Shuttle)
Final scheduled flight: October 20, 2000.
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Viscount724
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RE: What Airline Ordered The Most 727s?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting skycub (Reply 85):
Trans World Airlines
Final scheduled flight: New Orleans-Saint Louis on September 30, 2000. Aircraft N64339. (This was also the aircraft involved in the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847.)

Video coverage of the last 2 TWA flights STL-MSY-STL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydfsPlNIMw0

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