What are the largest metro areas without EK service?

MEX and ORD come to mind as alpha cities, but I'm sure there are more.

Its been stated before but DTW

Stats per the Arab American Institute:

-About 94% of Arab Americans live in metropolitan areas. Los Angeles, Detroit, New York/NJ, Chicago and Washington, D.C., are the top five metropolitan areas of Arab American concentration

-There are almost as many Iraqis living in Michigan as there are living in California, even though California is 3.5% larger than Michigan

Top Ten States by Arab American Population
1. California - 272,485

2. Michigan - 191,607

3. New York - 149,627

4. Florida - 100,627

5. Texas - 91,568

6. New Jersey - 85,956

7. Illinois - 85,465

8. Ohio - 65,813

9. Massachusetts - 65,150

10. Pennsylvania - 60,870

Well.........here's a list of the 50 largest metro area, according to Wikipedia. There must be quite a few that EK doesn't fly to.

Tokyo–Yokohama (Keihin)[2]

Jakarta (Jabodetabek)[3]

Seoul–Incheon (Sudogwon)[4]

Delhi[5]

Manila (Metro Manila)[6]

Shanghai[7]

New York[8]

São Paulo[9]

Mexico City (Valley of Mexico)[10]

Cairo[11]

Beijing[12]

Osaka–Kobe–Kyoto (Keihanshin)[13]

Mumbai (Bombay)[14]

Guangzhou (Canton)–Foshan (Guangfo)[15]

Moscow[16]

Dhaka[17]

Los Angeles[18]

Kolkata (Calcutta)

Karachi[19]

Buenos Aires[20]

Istanbul (Constantinople)

Rio de Janeiro

Shenzhen[15]

Lagos[21]

Paris

Nagoya (Chūkyō)[22]

Lima

Chicago[23]

Kinshasa[24]

Tianjin[25]

Chennai (Madras)

Bogotá

Bengaluru (Bangalore)

London[26]

Taipei[27]

Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon)

Dongguan[15]

Hyderabad

Chengdu

Lahore

Johannesburg–East Rand[28]

Tehran[29]

Essen (Ruhr)–Düsseldorf[30]

Bangkok

Hong Kong[15]

Wuhan

Ahmedabad

Chongqing[31]

Baghdad

Hangzhou[7]

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 1):

I think they means in terms of general population...

Using Wikipedia's list of the worlds largest cities it would indeed be MEX.

Quoting nomorerjs (Thread starter): MEX and ORD come to mind as alpha cities, but I'm sure there are more

Yes Mexico City would be the largest metro area without EK... if it wasn't for MEX's altitude, if Emirates could do MEX-DXB non-stop, I'd like to think they'd be flying there right now

Quoting reality (Reply 2): There must be quite a few that EK doesn't fly to.

That list is actually pretty well covered. EK does not fly to

Mexico City (Valley of Mexico)
Shenzhen
Nagoya (Chūkyō)
Lima
Kinshasa
Tianjin
Bogotá
Taipei
Dongguan
Chengdu
Wuhan
Chongqing
Hangzhou

Kinshasa and Taipei are currently pretty high on EK's priority list for new service. I would also at some point expect further services into Central and South America with MEX, BOG and LIM all possibilities, potentially via Europe. I am sure that EK is also looking at additional China service, as it now serves only PEK PVG and CAN on the mainland. Nagoya was previously served but was abandoned.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 3): I think they means in terms of general population... Using Wikipedia's list of the worlds largest cities it would indeed be MEX.

Actually the op said largest metro areas (which makes sense), which is why I used this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_by_population

This includes more than just the largest 20.

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 1): Its been stated before but DTW Stats per the Arab American Institute: -About 94% of Arab Americans live in metropolitan areas. Los Angeles, Detroit, New York/NJ, Chicago and Washington, D.C., are the top five metropolitan areas of Arab American concentration -There are almost as many Iraqis living in Michigan as there are living in California, even though California is 3.5% larger than Michigan Top Ten States by Arab American Population 1. California - 272,485 2. Michigan - 191,607 3. New York - 149,627 4. Florida - 100,627 5. Texas - 91,568 6. New Jersey - 85,956 7. Illinois - 85,465 8. Ohio - 65,813 9. Massachusetts - 65,150 10. Pennsylvania - 60,870

That is not relevant at all. Most Arabs will not fly EK, because of significant backtracking. Besides most Arabs are likely from Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, etc....Why would they fly to DXB to connect.

EK depends heavily on Indian subcontinent traffic not the Middle East and North Africa for pax coming from the US.

There are plenty..

Latin America

BOG 9.6mill est.
LIM 9.3
SCL 5.9m
CNF 5.4 Mil
CCS 4.1mil


also Guadalajara, Monterrey, Porto Alegre,Recife, Salvador, Medellin and plenty of others in Latin America all have between 3mill & 4.4mill. which puts them at a size that rivals SEA/MSP at the bottom end, and SFO/DTW/PHX at the upper end...

Asia
Shenzhen 9.4
Nagoya 8.3

Wuhan, Yianjin, Chonqing,Shenyang all above 6.4 million Metro

Africa
FIH springs to mind. There are many others.

Quoting g500 (Reply 4): Yes Mexico City would be the largest metro area without EK... if it wasn't for MEX's altitude, if Emirates could do MEX-DXB non-stop, I'd like to think they'd be flying there right now

I should think their 777-200LRs could do it with a fair payload.

[Edited 2012-10-02 18:07:18]

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 1): Top Ten States by Arab American Population 1. California - 272,485

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 1): 3. New York - 149,627

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 1): 6. New Jersey - 85,956

I'm surprised that California doesn't have more EK Arab service, being that it was such a large population. Even New York (and kind of New Jersey) has:

2x daily a388s from EK
1x daily a340-5/600 from EY
5x weekly a340-200 from RJ
1x daily 772/a343 from KU
1x daily 763 from AT
1x daily 77W from MS
3(?)x weekly from PK
5x weekly SV
1x daily 77W from QR
2x daily 77W and 1x daily a333 from TK

California gets a lot less (albeit some) of that.

Id also add ATL. 5.1 million people connected to the SE usa.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9): I should think their 777-200LRs could do it with a fair payload.

probably not.

They would be better off sending a 380....DXB-BCN-MEX (assumign traffic rights) or perhaps use a triangle like DXB-MEX-CUN-DXB

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 10): I'm surprised that California doesn't have more EK Arab service, being that it was such a large population. Even New York (and kind of New Jersey) has: 2x daily a388s from EK 1x daily a340-5/600 from EY 5x weekly a340-200 from RJ 1x daily 772/a343 from KU 1x daily 763 from AT 1x daily 77W from MS 3(?)x weekly from PK 5x weekly SV 1x daily 77W from QR 2x daily 77W and 1x daily a333 from TK California gets a lot less (albeit some) of that.

TK serves a large Turkish community in the US and a growing tourism business from North America. Their service does not depend on the Arab community.

AT does not compete with EK. Two different regions in the world.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9): I should think their 777-200LRs could do it with a fair payload.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 12): probably not.

They certainly have the legs. DXB-MEX is about 700nm farther than DXB-IAH and EK's 777-200LRs can lift a full payload between DXB and IAH. Now yes, MEX is 2200m higher than IAH, but still, I can't see that crippling the payload on the outbound.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14): They certainly have the legs. DXB-MEX is about 700nm farther than DXB-IAH and EK's 777-200LRs can lift a full payload between DXB and IAH. Now yes, MEX is 2200m higher than IAH, but still, I can't see that crippling the payload on the outbound.

I'd be very surprised. MEX-DXB is longer than JNB-ATL and as I understand it that is right at the limit of the 77L, and MEX is 600m higher. Ok it is eastbound but still.

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 1): 8. Ohio - 65,813

Yeah EK will never fly to any city in Ohio. Royal Jordinian does a good service to DTW IIRC

Quoting reality (Reply 2): Tokyo–Yokohama (Keihin)[2]

Not many arabians in this area though. EK serves them pretty well though as far as I know.

(edited for wrong airport)

[Edited 2012-10-02 20:01:22]

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 10): 3(?)x weekly from PK

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 10): 2x daily 77W and 1x daily a333 from TK

When did Pakistan and Turkey become Arab nations

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 16): Royal Jordinian does a good service to DFW IIRC

I think you are confusing RJ with EK, AFAIK, RJ does not service DFW.

EK really should consider some destinations in West China since EY has CTU and QR has CKG!

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 17): I think you are confusing RJ with EK, AFAIK, RJ does not service DFW.

EK doesn't serve DTW. RJ Serves through the North Terminal. Why, I don't know, maybe because of the Arabian population in Detroit. I think QR or ET on the 787/A350 could make this route work fine.

Check it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Metropolitan_Wayne_County_Airport

Quoting airbazar (Reply 15): I'd be very surprised. MEX-DXB is longer than JNB-ATL and as I understand it that is right at the limit of the 77L, and MEX is 600m higher. Ok it is eastbound but still.

A 777-200LR can do ATL-JNB (eastbound) at or near MZFW, which would allow for the Maximum Structural Payload (65t).

EK's 777-200LRs can lift 45t of payload and 134t of fuel at MTOW, which is about what EK's birds tank for DXB-LAX (which is ~500nm shorter than MEX). So even if they need to tank another 5t for MEX (to account for winds, alternates, etc.), that's still a 40t payload.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19): EK doesn't serve DTW. RJ Serves through the North Terminal. Why, I don't know, maybe because of the Arabian population in Detroit. I think QR or ET on the 787/A350 could make this route work fine.

Well you made a typo as DFW not DTW was mentioned in your original post.

[Edited 2012-10-02 19:31:51]

[Edited 2012-10-02 19:32:28]

California has a very large and pretty well to do Indian population and yet no airline has ever served India direct out of LAX or SFO either(Jet Airways was via PVG). And it really is the distance that keeps more Gulf/ME carriers from offering direct service to California to Cairo, Amman, Doha or Abu Dhabi. Without the premium pax, I am sure Emirates would not be serving California either. And with EK sucking up all the premium pax, there really is no reason for another airline to serve the India or Gulf traffic directly.

When it comes to size of the economy, Chicago, Nagoya, Atlanta, Philadelphia and Boston are top-20 gross metropolitan product in the world and EK is not there.

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 17): When did Pakistan and Turkey become Arab nations

I threw them in as they probably have good connections and help serve the area via their own respective hubs.

During so many years the fact of a Mexican airline flying to Japan or China was regarded as a dream never to be achieved. Now there is AMX flying to NRT and PVG. I'd like the Chinese to soon come with their very heavies into the country, and maybe dreaming to see Air China some time in the future coming with an A380. Currently there are a lot of beautiful Chinese women and weddings between Mexicans and Chinese are becoming less exotic than just 5 years ago.

Regarding Emirates, the U.A.E. are becoming slowly, but unduobtedly, one of the most important economic and touristic destinations in the world. At some point in the medium and long term, EK will be present in MEX. It's only a matter of time, and just the time and the involvement of Mexico with the UAE will determine which type of aircraft should be used. UAE has already hired few hundreds of high skilled, talented Mexicans. New generations with a poor expectations in Mexico are looking to go there. Maybe in a decade or so the cultural, political, business and familiar ties could be so strong to justify a flight of EK to MEX. IMHO Ohh, and please bear in mind that an increased gross weight version, particularly with the A380 is under development and the hot of MEX, which normally is in the lower 20°C (mid 70° F) disappears in the late hours of the night and early hours of the morning. And the flight doesn't need to be direct. A stop in Rome, a city not served by Mexican airlines, but with nice ties due to tourism and religion could play an extra benefit

In the short term, many "garbage" in the Civil Aeronautics Direction of the country must be "burned", speaking in the political context. For example, ANZ was interested in flying AKL-ACA-JFK few years ago. It was stopped because no mexican airline currently flies to New Zealand. The very true is that, with a 77W, ANZ could offer a much better product connecting directly ACA with JFK, "damaging the interests" of the local ones with a more mediocre service, but a fare most expensive than flying from NYC to Europe. Only, and only then, the fifth liberties could be a reality in Mexico, stimulating real competence so the best will prevail. One of the worst things I've seen in my life is how Mexicana was put away from business. With such way of thinking aviation business, there is a huge wall stopping the true globalization of mexican aviation.

[Edited 2012-10-02 20:10:33]

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 21): Well you made a typo as DFW not DTW was mentioned in your original post.

Ah my apologies, corrected. The F and T keys are too close to each other.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 26): Ah my apologies, corrected. The F and T keys are too close to each other.

Apologies not needed, I make typos all the time.

What about OSL, ARN and HEL?

The Rotterdam - The Hague Metro area ( around 5 million, and one of the most densely populated parts of Europe) in the Netherlands is also not directly served by EK.

The 1 daily A380 to AMS can do the trick for the time being. However CEO Clark mentioned 2 years ago that he would investigate the possibilities to fly to Rotterdam - The Hague airport. However nothing has materialized since then.
An 4 up to six 6 weekly flight with a A330 could easily be filled. And A330's could operate a sector to DXB out of RTM.

[Edited 2012-10-03 01:33:26]

Quoting 96adrian (Reply 28): What about OSL, ARN and HEL?

Are you joking? The topic was regarding the largest Metro areas of the world not served by EK. Little villages like Oslo, Stockholm and Helsinki hardly fits in that category with their populations of one, two and one million people.

EK Served Nagoya until a few years ago. Not too sure of the reasons why they stopped flying?

I think Taiwan is high on the list and EK will probably be flying there within the next 2 years.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 20): A 777-200LR can do ATL-JNB (eastbound) at or near MZFW, which would allow for the Maximum Structural Payload (65t). EK's 777-200LRs can lift 45t of payload and 134t of fuel at MTOW, which is about what EK's birds tank for DXB-LAX (which is ~500nm shorter than MEX). So even if they need to tank another 5t for MEX (to account for winds, alternates, etc.), that's still a 40t payload.

I don't disagree but the issue is not DXB-MEX (or ATL-JNB). The issue is MEX-DXB (and JNB-ATL), due to the altitude at the departing airport.

Quoting Thijs1984 (Reply 29): The Rotterdam - The Hague Metro area ( around 5 million, and one of the most densely populated parts of Europe) in the Netherlands is also not directly served by EK. The 1 daily A380 to AMS can do the trick for the time being. However CEO Clark mentioned 2 years ago that he would investigate the possibilities to fly to Rotterdam - The Hague airport. However nothing has materialized since then. An 4 up to six 6 weekly flight with a A330 could easily be filled. And A330's could operate a sector to DXB out of RTM.

I regard the whole of the Netherlands as a single metro area when it comes to air travel. The distance between Rotterdam Airport and Schiphol is about the same as Newark to JFK.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 32): I don't disagree but the issue is not DXB-MEX (or ATL-JNB). The issue is MEX-DXB (and JNB-ATL), due to the altitude at the departing airport.

If MEX Was at sea level...the 77L could do it.....but the heat and the altitude, even late at night will surely require a weight penalty..

Miami Florida needs Emirates. Miami also would allow EK access to all north Latin America and the caribean. No other city in the US except perhaps for Boston has no Middle East connection.

Quoting Thijs1984 (Reply 29): The Rotterdam - The Hague Metro area ( around 5 million, and one of the most densely populated parts of Europe) in the Netherlands is also not directly served by EK.

Then you might as well serve BRU. Granted you lose a bit of high yield port traffic but you gain a whole country.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 33): I regard the whole of the Netherlands as a single metro area when it comes to air travel. The distance between Rotterdam Airport and Schiphol is about the same as Newark to JFK.

Not true! You'd be surprised how habits regarding travel differ between Europe and the rest of the world. 50 KM is already considered far in most of Europe. Given that the biggest inconvenience in air travel is access time, you would be surprised. It does happen but you will find that not many people will cross borders country borders to travel long distances. Unreliability caused by congestion, fuel prices and expensive Airport Parking mean that people will pay a premium to fly out of their local airports.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 33): I regard the whole of the Netherlands as a single metro area when it comes to air travel. The distance between Rotterdam Airport and Schiphol is about the same as Newark to JFK.

Metro area's of that size are usually served by at least two or more airports  . That would also justify a service of Emirates.
AMS-RTM is alsmost the double distance of JFK-EWR

Quoting vinniewinnie (Reply 37): Then you might as well serve BRU. Granted you lose a bit of high yield port traffic but you gain a whole country.

they should serve both 

Quoting vinniewinnie (Reply 37): Not true! You'd be surprised how habits regarding travel differ between Europe and the rest of the world. 50 KM is already considered far in most of Europe. Given that the biggest inconvenience in air travel is access time, you would be surprised. It does happen but you will find that not many people will cross borders country borders to travel long distances. Unreliability caused by congestion, fuel prices and expensive Airport Parking mean that people will pay a premium to fly out of their local airports

True. some people make exceptions for Low costs fights. but competition of LCC is already quite severe and you won't need to travel far from home to find a LCC that flies to a lot of popular destinations.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9): Quoting g500 (Reply 4): Yes Mexico City would be the largest metro area without EK... if it wasn't for MEX's altitude, if Emirates could do MEX-DXB non-stop, I'd like to think they'd be flying there right now I should think their 777-200LRs could do it with a fair payload.

Doubt it. MEX-DXB is about 500 nm further than SFO-DXB and about 500 miles shorter than EWR-SIN, the world's longest nonstop route. And those points are all at sea level, not 7300 feet above.

And what type of traffic would fill flights on that route? I can't see it. Is there a lot of investment by, for example, Chinese companies in Mexico? And even if there is, why would they want to fly 60% further than via the Pacific? Example:

PEK-LAX-MEX 6,781 nm
PEK-DXB-MEX 10,907 nm

Tel Aviv?

Preview function says the message is too short to post, so it can't be of much value to the conversation. So let me add: "or is this too politically incorrect"

Throw in Atlanta, metropolitan area population 5.5 million and unfortunately growing. Home of the busiest airport in the United States.

In Africa, Kinshasa for sure. TK started to serve FIH. I am sure EK will follow soon.

Not one of the biggest city but I am also surprised that no Gulf carriers have started to fly to Madagascar. Only AF, UU, MK, KQ and SA fly to TNR. There is an important Asian (Chinese/Indonesian) community there and MD flies to BKK and CAN.

Quoting cipango (Reply 31): EK Served Nagoya until a few years ago. Not too sure of the reasons why they stopped flying?

If memory correct they only served Nagoya because the Japanese government wouldn't give them rights to Tokyo then.

Quoting vinniewinnie (Reply 37): Not true! You'd be surprised how habits regarding travel differ between Europe and the rest of the world. 50 KM is already considered far in most of Europe. Given that the biggest inconvenience in air travel is access time, you would be surprised. It does happen but you will find that not many people will cross borders country borders to travel long distances. Unreliability caused by congestion, fuel prices and expensive Airport Parking mean that people will pay a premium to fly out of their local airports.

I don't think habits are so different in many parts of America (particularly in some of Emirates' largest markets). Countries such as Belgium or Luxembourg (I think this is substantially different in NL due to tax/policy issues) have some of the highest ownership car rates in the world (on par with the US if not higher). Granted, motorways in Benelux are usually jammed, but that's the same in the Northeast US or in urban California... someone with origin in Palo Alto would rather fly from SJC instead of SFO and someone heading to Boca Raton would prefer to fly to FLL instead of MIA. Schiphol has a rail station that connects it very efficiently with the whole region, contrary to almost any airport in America.

I would see Turkish a much better fit for RTM. They seem to like secondary/minor airports in EMEA, and a A320/B737 would be probably easier to fill that an Emirates A330/B777.

In LATAM, add SCL to the list.

Once the route matures, they could drop the EZE tag from the GIG flight (just a dedicated DXB-GIG) and, instead, route EZE with a DXB-EZE-SCL (being the single Middle Eastern carrier with a direct flight to EZE).

Quoting qf002 (Reply 3):

Yeah i realized i was typical American Centric with my interpretation
 

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 41): In Africa, Kinshasa for sure. TK started to serve FIH. I am sure EK will follow soon. Not one of the biggest city but I am also surprised that no Gulf carriers have started to fly to Madagascar. Only AF, UU, MK, KQ and SA fly to TNR. There is an important Asian (Chinese/Indonesian) community there and MD flies to BKK and CAN.

It's a little bit strange that even TNR-BKK-CAN can fill 2 A343 per week but no connection DXB-TNR!

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9): I should think their 777-200LRs could do it with a fair payload.

I have my doubts. As you mentioned DL does JNB-ATL nonstop but I don't know if it has incurs any penalties. MEX-DXB is 8914 mi according to the GCM, 500 mi more than JNB-ATL. I think the tire speed limitation will affect them just like it affects ET out of ADD on its north American routes.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 12): perhaps use a triangle like DXB-MEX-CUN-DXB

I like this one and it would solve the range issue with flight nonstop on the eastbound leg out of MEX.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 35): Miami Florida needs Emirates.

Not sure if we need it but I certainly would welcome it. Connect one phony place with another phony place, what could go wrong with that?   

TLV: If there weren't those issues between Dubai and Israel, most likely EK (with its own metal or on an EK-owned airliner) would be flying to TLV in not time.
Several years ago, someone commented in these forums about now retired EK A310 @ TLV because UAE diplomats having talks with Palestinian dignitaries.. So for that part EK has already been to TLV.

MEX: MEX-DXB take off can't be really compared to JNB-DXB, Not only the distance from MEX to DXB is way longer, MEX is 500m higher than JNB. Add to that DXB-MEX west-bound route over the Northern hemisphere.. prone to seasonal headwinds..
CUN and/or MTY may prove to be good stops enroute to DXB if EK decides to fly to MEX.

In Latin America, other than MEX, SCL, LIM, BOG, CCS and who knows CNF, SSA or BSB too may draw some attention from EK. However BOG may face some altitude issues for a BOG-DXB.,
In this part of the world, PTY may be attractive for EK because CM hub, not because the country population.
Question is, how many of those Latin American destinations could support DXB flights without the need of one stop in Europe or Africa.