G'day

Another airline to delete from the list of civilized airlines.   

Not many stars left in the Star Alliance   


Cheers

Peter

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 9): I think that this is an incredibly idiotic move. This is because the average person will not have this many drinks. By making people pay after 6 sodas they will nonetheless effect the average very little and it will save them next to nothing. But it get's terrible press that is not worth it.

  

Agreed, it's an idiotic move; at least in the sense that it won't save much if any money and brings bad press and worse experience for pax.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 24): Still sounds like crap: Ryanair service on a premium fare.

Whoa, it's not like SK is going to leave people stranded and tell them to take a bus home. That's FR.

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 25): Overall, a bad move by SK in the end. Probably need to kill this program before it is implemented to save them more bad PR.

Indeed, bad PR is SK's worst enemy right now, not free soda on long haul flights.

Quoting troest (Reply 28): This is just sad to hear. SK is bleeding money. How long could SK stay aloft without the tax payers money?

Longer than FR, since that pile of scam would collapse faster than a house of cards if government subsidies would be taken from them.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 37): SAS are officially Europe's worst "legacy airline" in my eyes... They keep getting worse and worse and the only thing they have to cling onto is their punctuality record.

SK has stupid management that is severely infected by the beancounter disease. Their service in general is still very good, however. I'd recommend them.

Is Soda/ Pop a sparkling soft drink like Coke, Lemonade etc? Or does it include fruit juices too?
We don't use the word soda in the UK for that- everything is termed Soft Drinks.
Unless you mean soda water which is a mixer for spirits..

Annnnyway. Back to their decision- I think we need to put things into perspective.
You still get complimentary soft drinks with your (free) meal. You aren't going to die if you don't have a Coke every 20 minutes. And if you really are that hooked on Coke or whatever, buy one.
Or better still- they are still offering Tea, Coffee and water for free. You are NOT going to go thirsty on one of their flights.

Quoting ASA (Reply 22):

US terminology for carbonated soft drinks (i.e., Coca Cola, Pepsi, Ginger Ale, etc.) includes "Pop," "Soda," "coke (generic term)" etc.

Shufflemoonin ; im sorry to hear that you are forced because of the disabillity. It must be quite annoying. I would say to you though, that the services from AMS if ordered in advance, seems quite good. A flight from CPH to AMS is 1hour 20minutes tops, and I think there are morning flights at 7 or something, that gets you in to AMS in time for their 10 o clock longhauls to NYC. Plus you get more points for the NYC service on KL than SAS, i heard it was like 1500 points on SAS usually! :O

LH pulled out ? Damn, no hope then. How many PAX can be on the 772LR ? compared to the 340. I'm just wondering which one would fit sas more, as the 340 is too big with the lack of service they offer.

Someone mentioned it won't change much, and I totally agree. But it's the principal severity of it, that makes it soo sad to see, that this is their solution to losing money. No paydowngrade to cabin crew, no new 787's, no new nothing. To make costs smaller in the long run. It's really like they see whats coming and trying to scrape buy, hoping for a miracle. That's no way to run an airline. I will be glad to go on Norwegian just to try the 787, but I won't support either frequently, due to the lack of proper loyalty programme. Eurobonus doesn't give much. And I found it impossible to become gold on SAS with their routes. I became gold in less than a year with KL, and secured until end of 2013. So ... Like I said, they have to make a dying airline look attractive, and that ain't easy.

I dont understand what SK is doing. They are going to give 6 free drinks during the 2 meal service and also free alcohol, but will charge for drinks in between meals ? Seriously how many ask for soda between meals, most of them ask for water and the last I checked water and soda weigh the same. There is no economic benefit, except more confusion and anger at the airline.

I thought European legacies were better than USA legacies in every way...

Just so I got it correct a soda is a fizzy drink.

SAS charging for drinks and snacks is going to further complicate choosing an airline to travel with.

Wouldn't they be better off noting in their price panels that drinks and snacks are free with them compared to other airlines rather than taking those free items away?

Flying with US and European airlines is quickly becoming a very miserable experience compared to the Middle Eastern carriers on long haul with their bright and colourful aircraft liveries, sexy staff and full catering in all classes.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 56): I thought European legacies were better than USA legacies in every way...

This is only the beginning..grab your popcorn!

Interesting to see the European carriers fall into the same potholes that their American counterparts tripped over just a few short years ago...today it's SK, tomorrow the oh so "well run" LH/BA/AF.

avek00; they arent... Delta treats me fine when im flying on them

Soda is an evil drink!

The right policy should be pay for soda but wine is free.

Quoting raffik (Reply 52): Annnnyway. Back to their decision- I think we need to put things into perspective. You still get complimentary soft drinks with your (free) meal. You aren't going to die if you don't have a Coke every 20 minutes. And if you really are that hooked on Coke or whatever, buy one. Or better still- they are still offering Tea, Coffee and water for free. You are NOT going to go thirsty on one of their flights.

I agree with the perspective ...

Quoting hohd (Reply 55): I dont understand what SK is doing. They are going to give 6 free drinks during the 2 meal service and also free alcohol, but will charge for drinks in between meals ? Seriously how many ask for soda between meals, most of them ask for water and the last I checked water and soda weigh the same. There is no economic benefit, except more confusion and anger at the airline.

but ... people will still misjudge them. if there is no economic benefit - why provoke the bad PR?

Quoting babybus (Reply 57): Just so I got it correct a soda is a fizzy drink.

"Soda" is American English for "soft drink". Carbonated, sweetened drinks such as Coke, lemonade, Pepsi etc

Juice is not "soda" - it's juice

Quoting avek00 (Reply 56): I thought European legacies were better than USA legacies in every way...

After my 7 flights on BA this year I fear those days may be behind us  

BA are definitely still better than AA, but IMHO they're a shadow of their former self

Quoting incitatus (Reply 60): The right policy should be pay for soda but wine is free.

Now there's something we can agree on  

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 8): What's soda? A soft drink?

A language thing. Soda is actually carbonated water.

In parts of the US and Canada the term is applied to *everything* carbonated and bottled. And you find the term 'soda pop' or just 'pop' in the American midwest and 'soda water' in the American south.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 62): "Soda" is American English for "soft drink". Carbonated, sweetened drinks such as Coke, lemonade, Pepsi etc

Except that if you order a 'lemonade' in the U.S., you'll get a drink that's non-carbonated water, lemon juice, and sugar. Lemonade to you is 7-UP, Sprite, or lemon-lime soda to us.

Then there's 'club soda' (with sodium salts added) vs. 'seltzer water' (without sodium salts) to muddy the water even further!

Quoting LY777 (Reply 43):

This is ALWAYS my point when an airline starts nickel-and-diming. You can always choose another airline but when the other ones start doing the same thing, you run out of choices and that concerns me. Look what happened with baggage fees in the US; I'm lucky that I can still use Southwest out of MDW but I can't use it for everything.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 60): Soda is an evil drink!

There is such a thing.

Zamzam is a cola drink bottled in Tehran.

Since it's bottled in Iran, it must, therefore, be evil.  

Quoting g500 (Reply 6): what happened, did they go to the US Airways' seminar?

US AIRWAYS never charged for the soda on International flights . It was a small attempt on US Domestic flights for a few months but after passengers complained it is "VOID" by the management .
Further more US will serve FREE alcoholic drink in Coach Class on International flights but only with your meal service starting November this year . Otherwise USD 7 charged for strong spirits and "premium" wine selection....

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 59): avek00; they arent... Delta treats me fine when im flying on them

I know....I'm one of the longtime proponents of the USA legacies on a.net. For years, the "prevailing" a.net "wisdom" was that USA legacies sucked, didn't know what they're doing, etc. Turns out the USA legacies were more or less at the forefront of the painful reinvention that will be required of all 21st century First World legacies, and are now investing in their products to return to somewhere near the head of the class while the a.net lauded European legacies will be mired in calamity for years to come.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 48): Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18): The term is never used in Canada, where it would be "soft drink" or "pop". Do you include Québec ? In France we say soda. But maybe not in Québec since it's an English word, they would use "boisson gazeuse" or something like that.

"Liqueur" is also a common term for "soft drink" in Québec. "Breuvage" is another word used (I think) almost exclusively in Québec for drinks/beverages in general. See the last paragraph here (and the vocabulary list at the bottom):
http://www.fredak.com/dico/fauxamis.htm

Sad turn of events at SK for them to start charging for drinks on long-haul flights - looks like the race to the bottom is moving across the pond with SK being the first casualty.

But then again, SK aren't really that big of a transatlantic player right? I mean they only fly to 4 places in the US (including the yet to be launched SFO route next year).

I guess any pax that may get turned off due to this decision still have other *A options - LH/LX/SN et al.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 64): Except that if you order a 'lemonade' in the U.S., you'll get a drink that's non-carbonated water, lemon juice, and sugar. Lemonade to you is 7-UP, Sprite, or lemon-lime soda to us.

Your right of course, I'd forgotten that one

Incidentally, now we're on the subject of drinks: "spirits" is "liquor"

Quoting avek00 (Reply 68): For years, the "prevailing" a.net "wisdom" was that USA legacies sucked, didn't know what they're doing, etc.

As someone who has said less than glowing things about US legacies in the past I will definitely agree that they have improved a lot since (say) 2008. However I still think they have some issues, especially relating to customer service. In the past week I have had 2 delays, one on AA and one on DL. On AA there wasn't even an apology, on DL there was one agent to rebook people who had missed their connections in ATL.

Quoting Windowseater (Reply 70): Sad turn of events at SK for them to start charging for drinks on long-haul flights - looks like the race to the bottom is moving across the pond with SK being the first casualty.

Well it seems that you will still get free drinks to the meals, just not in between and unlimited ...

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 72):

Well, I don't think the average budget-conscious traveller will be too bothered by this - someone above suggested just BYOB and bring on board.

But then, this is exactly the penny pinching mentality that starts with drinks first and then spreads slowly onto other service elements of a flight - no wonder the Asian and Gulf carriers attract so many converts.

And it surely isn't a 'product upgrade' that SK is describing this as..if this is just a part of it, wonder what the rest of the upgrade awaits!  

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 20): They're lucky I've got no choice but to fly them.

Quoting ASA (Reply 22): Quoting golfradio (Reply 15): Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 8): What's soda? pop. what's pop?

Soda

Quoting ASA (Reply 23): coming next, an IKEA food stall in the departure area ... grab your free-food before the flight!

Oh yeah!! Swedish meatballs on board.

Soda sure is more unhealthy than wine thats for sure! So would I drink less soda inflight if I knew I had to pay, probably. But since im already into other airlines, it won't matter. One thing that most airlines should change up on, is pinapplejuice. Tried it on Emirates, and it was a "healthier" alternative to the nasty bubblewater, and left me less bloaded at the end of both longhaulflights. Bring it to KLM and TK pleeeease!

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 62):

The BA service is still ok, the administrative nonsense when they make mistakes, is however as poor as any Ryanair complaintmail... But back on topic, the BA food was alot of times prepackaged. Once it was really good. An amazing "bought"from-outside-lasagna, tasted soo good. But the rest of my flights with them on longhaul, made you not wanna eat at all. Any SK flyers that can tell us how the food is on economy ? Surely it can't be as good as the KL 3corse menu, where all of it seems totally fresh... 4 yrs back when I had my debut job in India, I flew a340 on SK, good quiet flight, few bumbs, but ye, ironically the food was italian or danish style. No indian style choice. Do they think about where they fly when they do the meals? To accomodate the locals sort of... Any SK'ers feel free to reply  

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 66): Zamzam is a cola drink bottled in Tehran. Since it's bottled in Iran, it must, therefore, be evil

Lol, very good!

Quoting Windowseater (Reply 70): Sad turn of events at SK for them to start charging for drinks on long-haul flights

Either I have completely mis read the article or people here don't understand that with your meal(s), you get free drinks; soft drinks or alcoholic drinks. That's 3 cans of Coke or Sprite or whatever you want. That is still free of charge, complimentary. As is Tea, Coffee and Water. These are free to all passengers throughout the flight, whenever you are thirsty you can enjoy a FREE beverage. Not only that, but alcohol is STILL free.

I would be very surprised if somebody here could not manage to fly from America to Europe with SK because they couldn't manage on three cans of fizzy drink. If they started charging for water, I would be appalled but to be honest, if someone has such an addiction to these sugary drinks and can't go a few minutes without drinking it, then bring it on with you.
Buy some from Duty free and pour it down your necks as many times as you want!

Quoting raffik (Reply 76): These are free to all passengers throughout the flight, whenever you are thirsty you can enjoy a FREE beverage. Not only that, but alcohol is STILL free.

Not correct. In between the meals only tea, coffee and water is free. They will charge both for alcoholic drinks and softdrinks, but only outside the mealservice.

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 77): Not correct. In between the meals only tea, coffee and water is free. They will charge both for alcoholic drinks and softdrinks, but only outside the mealservice.

which is actually a great way to put it ... and perfectly okay, imho!

basically, FREE drinks (soda, alcohol, everything) during meal services. free coffee/tea/water other times ...

SK needs better PR people, me thinks ...  

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 77): Not correct. In between the meals only tea, coffee and water is free. They will charge both for alcoholic drinks and softdrinks, but only outside the mealservice.

But are you still able to order alcoholic beverages in the mealservice?

How many european airlines serve softdrinks on longhaul outside mealservice? Just curious. I flew AF on longhaul a year ago, and between meals they had self service in the galley with water, different kinds of juice, and some sandwiches, but I don't remember seeing softdrinks.

[Edited 2012-10-05 16:10:51]

[Edited 2012-10-05 16:11:54]

Quoting troest (Reply 79): But are you still able to order alcoholic beverages in the mealservice?

I though SK did not provide free alcohol even with meals. They did advertise wine (with meal only) as one of the perks for executive economy.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 80): I though SK did not provide free alcohol even with meals. They did advertise wine (with meal only) as one of the perks for executive economy.

It has been awhile since I have flown them, but SK did offer free alcoholic drinks with meals. If you wanted alcohol outside of the meal you had to pay for it (unless you were in Economy Extra, then it is always free).

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 80): I though SK did not provide free alcohol even with meals. They did advertise wine (with meal only) as one of the perks for executive economy.

Quoting Polot (Reply 81): It has been awhile since I have flown them, but SK did offer free alcoholic drinks with meals. If you wanted alcohol outside of the meal you had to pay for it (unless you were in Economy Extra, then it is always free).

Well, as I already said, it wasn't like that when I flew CPH-EWR last year. On each meal and drinks round, I asked for a beer and was given with no charge and that was in economy. I haven't seen anyone being charged for anything in economy or heard announcements about it on-board in long haul on SK.

I don't think anyone really cares about not getting 7 or 8 drinks for free anymore, its more the image it leaves of SK to the public, a bit cheap, a bit penny counting.

Just look at the reactions of people in this thread, people are emotional beings.. I think SK did a unwise move here.

What image does SK want the public to have of them? And in these shallow day and age, image is everything really.

I got the image of old, worn and tired from my last flight, maybe not keeping me from flying them again but if there are other options that try harder they may just lose some business. I think Sk will wake up too late and realise the 80´s ended..

No pre flight champagne in business class? Bad move SAS, very bad indeed.

Quoting raffik (Reply 76): If they started charging for water, I would be appalled but to be honest, if someone has such an addiction to these sugary drinks and can't go a few minutes without drinking it, then bring it on with you.

A few things at work here that makes soda appealing in flight. First is the unusually low humidity on planes most people aren't used to, making them more thirsty than usual, then the carbon dioxide in carbonated drinks helps to settle your stomach. Many people get queasy while flying. I even feel it lightly on occasion after decades of flying, even without turbulence.

While I'm not a huge soda drinker on the ground, I can down a few colas or ginger ales while flying across the U.S. I don't always want hot tea or coffee (cabins are usually warm), and juices are pasteurized making them more acidic (I notice it most with the ubiquitous orange juice), so a cool glass of soda with ice becomes my default drink because it's all around the most refreshing choice.

Quoting OEH68 (Reply 84): No pre flight champagne in business class? Bad move SAS, very bad indeed

Of course there is pre flight champagne. What makes you think there is not???

The new service charges (in between the meals) for softdrinks and alcohol only applies to economy. Not economy extra and business of course.

Quoting troest (Reply 79): But are you still able to order alcoholic beverages in the mealservice?

Yes, Wine, beer, whatever is free with the meal. Not between the meal services.

Looks like its turned into a PR SNAFU for SK.

The weight savings argument is intersting. 500ml of water weighs the same as 500ml of pop/soda/soft drink. EIther they're carrying a lot of redundant liquids aboard, or they're going to have to replace cold drinks with potable water to make sure they don't run out of water.

Is it a bright move? Given the low price of soft drinks, its a pretty daft move. The optics are terrible, no matter how much you spin it. Just surprised they didn't put a health spin on it.

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 88): 500ml of water weighs the same as 500ml of pop/soda/soft drink

That is not true- but the differences in weight likely cancel out (500 mL of some sodas will weigh less than 500 mL of water while some sodas will weigh more) and are negligible to begin with, so it is a weak argument.

SK should just let it pass and let go of this stupid idea, to fly old A343s and then save a few Kg on soft drinks is just absurd. Probably some Swedish environmental nuts that brainstormed, they are employed in all companies now, nicely PC..

To get a better image, order some 789s that they can be converted to 7810s if need be. Place all FAs above 58 in administrative duty, kick all lousy bean counters at HQ, make peace with Norwegian and see if there is some savings to be made on short haul and long haul. Norwegian+ SK would be a formidable player in Scandinavia. QF+EK sort of cooperation? No more union power, just re route with Norwegian when the Danes start their monkey play..  

Hey there,

I am probably not as experienced with various airlines as most of you, but I am fairly used to SAS as their direct flight from CPH-ORD has always been very convenient for me. I have flown on all classes as well, about two or three times per year since 2003. I find some of the criticisms here unreasonable.

I have also traveled with KLM (economy in their 747 ca. 2006, when there wasn't even an in flight entertainment system on the individual screens), which was average, and Air India, after a cancelled SAS flight when I had to spend the night at CPH and then connect via Frankfurt the next day. The Air India flight had come from Dehli and made a stop at Frankfurt, and the lavatories were full of nasty things and bodily fluids smeared on the seats and floor - I have never experienced anything like it. However, their food was really good, and they would inform us everytime turbulence was expected so we were all recommended to fasten our seatbelts. Interesting side note: The girl next to me explained that the passengers received a nice cup of tea in India before departure which with a little extra ingredient that helped them relax during the long flight. Is this true? Tea was not legit in Germany, so we got a less potent, but still tasty, alternative.

Almost every flight across the atlantic with SAS has been very quiet and pleasant. With some exceptions, service has mostly been warm and friendly. Sometimes, even though I have not been entitled to it (for instance while traveling economy), when visiting the aft galley, I have been treated to wine and beer, even when offering to pay for it.

Also in recent years, traveling with an infant, the crew has always been very nice and helpful to us.

Food: I don't touch their fish. Never been good in my opinion. Chicken dishes has generally been ok, and the food quality seems to have risen in the past few years. The times I have traveled business the menu has been the same, and I would have hoped to see a change in items offered, as I am sure there are people who travel that route quite frequently.

However, I have in the past written emails to SAS about what I find to be (to me) unacceptable conditions (dirt, peeling paint etc..) inside for instance the lavatories, and that it doesn't live up to the image SAS is trying to convey for instance via their facebook page. This was even evident in the business class lavatories, which also gives me a feeling of tiredness.

At one point in 2004, they started selling the headphones to the IFE system. Then again the following year, they would give them out again to be returned at the end of the flight. I kept having to explain to them that I had purchased my set the year before. So this "upgrade" stuff has been going on for a while it seems.

I remember when I was little, we had another airline in Norway, Braathens S.A.F.E., and SAS was always considered the more expensive and exclusive of the two. To me it always had an air of class about it, so I truly wish SAS would get their act together. I don't mind paying for the drinks between meals (it's a minor issue I think) as long as the in flight service and overall product lives up to my expectations. But peeling paint, visual wear and tear, really makes me feel like the company's dedication to the customer's total flying experience is less than commendable.

Sometimes Economy Extra is not much more expensive than Economy, a couple of years ago you could even get really cheap business class tickets (Business Domestic) when flying from the US.

However, I have never really felt let down by the crew on these flights, and even though their FAs haven't all been 20-somethings, service has mostly always been spot on and professional. Sometimes beyond that.

So I wouldn't not recommend them. I think they're good. However there is big room for improvement in certain areas and I wish they would take that seriously. Survival of the fittest.

B.

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 86): Of course there is pre flight champagne. What makes you think there is not???

Not free like it used to be

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 92): Not free like it used to be

This specific comment was regarding pre-flight champagne is business class. Of course there is. There would be no charge in business class.

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 93): This specific comment was regarding pre-flight champagne is business class. Of course there is. There would be no charge in business class.

The Champagne is removed as predeparture drink in c / j class from october 1st

Historically, and by this I mean in the last 5 years, SAS has been the best short haul product in Europe in business class. I hate to see them going this way, it does smack of desperation, hopefully not a death of 1000 cuts.