British Airways Non T5 Ops At LHR...

gilesdavies · Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:56 pm

Just curious why BA chose to operate a number of destinations from Heathrow's Terminal 3?

The destinations they fly to and from T3 are to a rather random handful of destinations in my eyes, but I suppose there is some logic, which I am sure someone can explain...

I am flying to LCA in November and was really looking forward to the T5 experience (as not used it yet), and wasn't until I checked further into the info, my flight is operating from T3.

(Only found this out when I was just about to book my airport parking, so pleased I checked as a trek from T5 to T3 at 5am would not be fun!)

Are there still any long term plans to centralise all BA destinations from T5? I thought this was already in place, except for the ex-BMI operations... If its a case of there is not enough room at the inn, at T5, it is interesting how they found space for IB to operate its routes from there.

Is there room for additional gates and check in space to be built at T5?

If this is not the case, will BA centralise all their non T5 ops, from just another single terminal, and if so which one would this most likely be? Is there space from a single terminal to operate all the routes from?

Also are there plans to centralise atleast flights to the same destination from the same terminal in the long-run? As you have destinations like Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Manchester, Moscow and to Saudia Arabia, from both terminals 1 and 5.

Sorry so many questions...

List of destinations from T3
Bangkok
Bucharest
Budapest
Gibraltar
Helsinki
Larnaca
Lisbon
Prague
Singapore
Sydney
Vienna

anstar · Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:57 pm

Maybe the T3 ops are flights that dont have many connections?

CYatUK · Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:11 pm

The arrival time of the LCA flight (arrives back at LHR around 19:30) makes it impossible to catch the majority of BA flight connections without an overnight stay in London.

Based on this, it is likely that BA moved LCA to T3 since the majority of connecting passengers will have to spend a night in London hence it would not be very inconvenient for them to change terminals

Just my

LHRFlyer · Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:34 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Also are there plans to centralise atleast flights to the same destination from the same terminal in the long-run? As you have destinations like Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Manchester, Moscow and to Saudia Arabia, from both terminals 1 and 5.

These flights will be consolidated in the same terminal from the end of October. There is an update on all of the terminal moves here:

http://therewillbeaplace.com/2012/09...ation-of-bmi-into-british-airways/

The other routes are mainly in Terminal 3 so they can be operated jointly with Oneworld partners like Finnair and Qantas.

Bangkok and Singapore could move into Terminal 5 after the joint business with Qantas ends.

Terminal 5 was never big enough for BA's operation and with the protracted planning enquiry there was no chance of going back to the drawing board to make it bigger. We may see a T5D and T5E but in the long run I think it's better that BA and BAA avoid cramming too many flights into Terminal 5. I remember the last few years of the operatiion at Terminal 4 when it sometimes felt the whole operation could collapse in on itself at any moment.

[Edited 2012-10-04 13:37:39]

by738 · Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:10 pm

The T5 to T3 connection is a pain in the @ss and often a lot of BA T3 flights are from remote stands and need bussed. Im surprised there arent more complaints

boysteve · Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:55 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Just curious why BA chose to operate a number of destinations from Heathrow's Terminal 3?

The destinations they fly to and from T3 are to a rather random handful of destinations in my eyes, but I suppose there is some logic, which I am sure someone can explain...

Well the simple fact is that T5 is not big enough for all BA's operations. Originally T3 handled;

B757 operated flights as equipment at T5 was not compatible, however the 757's are now gone. But there maybe a hangover from destinations that used to see the BA B757 (such as LCA may be?)

Flights to destinations that were shared with partners. For example you may have a ticket for a BA flight number to SIN/BKK/SYD and to make life easier they all went from T3, some where on BA metal, some were codeshares on QF metal, either way you went from T3. The same applies to certain Spanish destinations and also HEL.Given that T5 is not big enough this is a fairly sensible way of splitting ops.

All BA domestic flights went from T5, and indeed they all arrived at the North side of T5. However the takeover of BD has led to a duplication period which should end when the Winter timetable starts as LHRFlyer has said.

So yes, it may appear that the selection of flights from terminals other than T5 appears random, but there are sensible reasons behind each one.

AIR MALTA · Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:53 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 4):
The T5 to T3 connection is a pain in the @ss and often a lot of BA T3 flights are from remote stands and need bussed. Im surprised there arent more complaints

Would it be easier and more user friendly to have people connecting with other flights from other terminals disembark from the back into a special bus that would take them to T3 connection center or even better to T5 connection center? This would be similar to what Aer Lingus is doing at T1. I used that service and I have to say that transferring from EI T1 flights to BA T5 flights was effortless.

AAIL86 · Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:12 am

Quoting gilesdavies (Thread starter):

I am flying to LCA in November and was really looking forward to the T5 experience (as not used it yet), and wasn't until I checked further into the info, my flight is operating from T3.

I'm flying DFW-LHR-PRG in W on BA next Wednesday - and yes I'm not excited about the switch from T5 to T3...

vv701 · Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:22 am

T5 was designed simply as a terminal able to handle up to 30 million passengers a year. It was not specifically designed for BA's operations.

The internal layout of any terminal depends on the likely passenger mix. So, for example, T1 at LHR is, according to the Start of Season Report for Summer Season 2012 on the Airport Coordination Ltd web site, able to handle up to 1.600 arriving international passengers, 1,500 arriving domestic passengers and up to 930 passengers from other parts of the Common Travel Area (that comprises the UK, the Republic of Ireland, the Isle of Man ans the Channel Island).This is because international arrivals have to pass through the UK Border Control and Revenue & Customs, CTA arrivals need to only pass through Customs and domestic arrivals need to pass through neither.

As far as I know T5 has n o current facility to handle arrivals from CTA and T3 has no facilities to handle Domestic or CTA arrivals.

The impact on T5 was that BAA entered negotiations with BA with a view to BA taking occupancy after the basic design had been finalised so that internal facilities could be tailored to the airline's passengers' needs.

Unless BAA is willing to invest a significant additional sum (which seems improbable with their current investment in T2) I doubt that either T1 or T5 will be capable of handling all of BA's domestic and CTA arrivals now it s merged with BD. Note here that until the merger BA had no CTA arrivals from outside the UK., i.e arriving passengers who needed to clear Customs but not Border Control. It will now need to use the T1 CTA arrival facilities for its ex-BD DUB flights. This at least opens up the possibilty of an LHR-JER service. Until the BD merger such a flight would have been the only BA non-domestic CTA flight.

teme82 · Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:01 pm

Last Feb I did HEL-LHR-JNB-MPM and back. I found that the transfer at LHR was smooth. I got the morning AY flight to LHR and took the last flight to JNB. On return I got 4 hours time to change planes and it was pretty easy and fast.

skipness1E · Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:00 pm

T3 flights are two types. Those with the fewest connections to T5 on BA and those closely aligned with partners in T3. Until recently this meant Spain and Iberia, nowadays it's QANTAS and Finnair flights. There's not enough room to get all of BA into T5 as when LGW was dehubbed a load of aircraft were returned to LHR. As for bussing, most, indeed on some days, all of T3 short haul busses (shhh to Terminal One gates half the time on the old Novembers), from Gate 24.
Bussing is commonplace, I was bussed from a B772 on AMM-DXB with the mighty Emirates on Wednesday! No one cried, no one died. Indeed at T5, there are a load of bussing stands on T5A. Worth reviewing progress once the post T2 rejig is done.

roberto277 · Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:49 pm

I wouldn't know about connection times between T3 and T5, but I love the connection times at T5. A couple of years ago I had to catch the plane to JFK at LHR. I flew In from AMS. It was my first time at T5. Connection time from arriving by bus at T5A and my departure gate at T5B was well below 15 minutes.

Got to love that. Does anybody know the record connection time at Heathrow? :P I would love T5D and T5E.

skipness1E · Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:15 pm

You were exceptionally lucky to do that, international to international can be VERY busy at T5.

by738 · Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:35 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 6):
Would it be easier and more user friendly to have people connecting with other flights from other terminals disembark from the back into a special bus that would take them to T3 connection center

It sort of happens that way, but with a detour via T5 connections

[Edited 2012-10-05 12:36:25]

by738 · Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 10):
Those with the fewest connections to T5 on BA

Why would 4/5 flights a day PRG have fewer connections than some of the other Euro flights ex T5 ?

AIR MALTA · Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:41 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 13):
It sort of happens that way, but with a detour via T5 connections

Do you mean, when disembarking, transit passengers are directly taken to T5 connections? So why are people complaining about the T3-T5 transfer if they do not set foot at T3?

santos · Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:46 pm

Anyone know why LIS is served from T3?
It seems the odd one out of the bunch!

miaintl · Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:30 am

The whole lhr is a massive dump that needs to be torn down. A new airport is the only way moving forward for London and ba. If not lhr will continue to be avoided as a transfer hub and places like cdg, fra, ams, muc, mad, and zrh with their more efficient terminal layout will be opted for instead. Lhr is without a question the worst transfer hub in europe and possibly the world.

boysteve · Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:00 am

Quoting miaintl (Reply 17):
The whole lhr is a massive dump that needs to be torn down. A new airport is the only way moving forward for London and ba. If not lhr will continue to be avoided as a transfer hub and places like cdg, fra, ams, muc, mad, and zrh with their more efficient terminal layout will be opted for instead. Lhr is without a question the worst transfer hub in europe and possibly the world.

Transferring within T5 is nothing like you describe above.

AIR MALTA · Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:52 am

Quoting miaintl (Reply 17):
Lhr is without a question the worst transfer hub in europe and possibly the world.

It is not correct. While transfering between terminals can be painful, transfering at CDG is worse. It is such a mess!

BoeingVista · Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:36 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 19):
It is not correct. While transfering between terminals can be painful, transfering at CDG is worse. It is such a mess!

Yup CDG is way worse than LHR, its not just the transfers the terminals have stupid confusing designs too.

lasairlinerenth · Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:36 am

Quoting miaintl (Reply 17):
The whole lhr is a massive dump that needs to be torn down. A new airport is the only way moving forward for London and ba. If not lhr will continue to be avoided as a transfer hub and places like cdg, fra, ams, muc, mad, and zrh with their more efficient terminal layout will be opted for instead. Lhr is without a question the worst transfer hub in europe and possibly the world.

While I admit my experience with European airports is limited to LHR and PRG -- and that I am not, by any means, a frequent international traveler -- I respectfully disagree with your assessment of LHR. On my last trip to the UK and the Czech Republic, I transited (with an overnight stay at a nearby hotel on the outbound from LAS) through BA's T5 at LHR and found it to be a good experience; I was on airport/sensory overload -- in a good way -- the entire time I was there. Even T3 where American operates out of (I flew BA to the UK and PRG, and PRG back to LHR, but then American back to the states) wasn't all that bad.

skipness1E · Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:23 am

Quoting by738 (Reply 14):

My understanding is that routes which have a good number of connections remain in T5. LUX may be profitable for BA, however it was at LGW for years and is being moved to T1 as much traffic is point to point. Lisbon didn't move to T5 as all Spain and Portugal headed to T3, this remained true until Iberia's MAD service moved to T5.

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