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boysteve
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting ecbomberman (Reply 49):
And another interesting point is that if the 744's are that inefficient, why would CX buy several 744's from SQ a couple of years ago?

Err, I thought CX had cut certain routes/frequencies this winter becasue of the 'relative' high cost of opertaing them with a B744? Routes/frequencies will then return later next year when they recieve more B773ER's.
 
astuteman
Posts: 7290
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RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:52 pm

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 36):
I suspect you're right, but I'm not ruling it out just yet. 6 Frames to LAX/SFO/HKG/MIA/JFK could work. Particularly if followed up with another 4 or so for leisure routes to MCO/LAS. The problem is the lack of flexibility, they would work for most of the year on these routes but there would be a few weeks where they would be a total liability. I guess thats true of almost every route ,so it comes down to whether the good times would outweight the bad

I think you're right not to rule it out just yet, based on this interview with Steve ridgeway..

http://www.flightglobal.com/interviews/steve-ridgway/interview/

Quote:
The future of Virgin’s 11-year-old order for six A380s “very much depends on the state of the global economy and the oil price”, says Ridgway, with deliveries slated for 2017. “It’s a lovely, quiet aircraft but it’s very big and you need to operate it on some very big trunks and you need to have a big enough fleet,” he says.

I certainly accept that this isn't a ringing endorsement of the order, but it clearly shows that the "de-facto cancellation" we've had dangled offensively under our noses for the last 5 years is nothing of the sort.

Quoting leonard320 (Reply 45):
As much as I would love to see what Virgin would do with a A380, I think they would only take them now if they can't back out without a significant penalty

See above. I think there are a whole slew of factors to come into play between now and 2017 when they're now due to take the aircraft.

rgds
 
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135mech
Posts: 411
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RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 36):
BTW, not to nitpick, but for reference VS took A333's, not B777's

My apologies, thought I'd seen a great shot on here of one at night just after a rain (A Virgin Australia jet... as one said above, they are seperate companies though). Thanks for the info!

135Mech
135Mech
 
behramjee
Posts: 5144
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RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:25 am

Quoting ecbomberman (Reply 49):
For a starter, they can fill up flights to HKG/JFK/SFO quite easily. If I remember correctly, VS is having trouble getting LHR-SYD pax on their daily LHR-HKG-SYD flights because most people disembark in HKG. Thus, I would see think that an A380 would be useful for that route for a starter...

I was never in favor of VS launching SYD via HKG because LHR-HKG with its own high point to point yield along with volume would have easily sustained the route. VS should have flown to Australia via KUL as it would be competing only with MH on both LHR-KUL and KUL-SYD which is far better than the current multiple daily competition it is up against on LHR-HKG + SYD-HKG respectively !
 
etoile
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:22 am

RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:52 am

Quoting ecbomberman (Reply 49):
And another interesting point is that if the 744's are that inefficient, why would CX buy several 744's from SQ a couple of years ago?

I believe that project started around 2005, when jet fuel was under $2/gal. It is now $3.20.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8358
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:13 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 16):
Agreed. Of the A380 orders, only IT was less likely.

And was so from Day one. At the time all I remember thinking was that the order was nothing more than a PR stunt - just like the sonic cruiser.

Amazing to see two of the biggest egos in the business choosing the wrong aircraft - twice.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 35):
Yes it does seem that the A380 is now not a good fit for VS

It never was...

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 36):
6 Frames to LAX/SFO/HKG/MIA/JFK could work.

I'm not so sure about HKG - this route continues to SYD, and VS already have lower yields than the competitors on this segment. CX and QF are strong formidable competitors, and VS doesnt need to basically double capacity.

JFK is a frequency route, hence it needs more A330 over less A380. The 380 is better suited to a high density Gatwick operation - flying bucket loads of leisure passengers to Florida and Vegas.

Quoting ecbomberman (Reply 49):
For a starter, they can fill up flights to HKG/JFK/SFO quite easily. If I remember correctly, VS is having trouble getting LHR-SYD pax on their daily LHR-HKG-SYD flights because most people disembark in HKG. Thus, I would see think that an A380 would be useful for that route for a starter...

That was many years ago, and probably nothing more than Hype. If that was true, they would be operating the 744 on it.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
behramjee
Posts: 5144
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RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:54 am

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 55):

JFK is a frequency route, hence it needs more A330 over less A380. The 380 is better suited to a high density Gatwick operation - flying bucket loads of leisure passengers to Florida and Vegas.

Fully agree...I recall that recently Finnair was provided the option of exchanging 1 A340 or 1 A330 for 2.5 A320s/A321s by Airbus hence taking that into consideration, one should suggest to VS to do the same by exchanging 6 A380s for 12-15 A333s but of the IGW version which can fly nonstop from LHR to U.S. West Coast / JNB / BLR (future route) / IAH (future route) / Brazil (future route) without any payload restrictions.

This above mentioned exchange option will serve them much better in the future versus having an in-significant fleet of only 6 A380s !
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8358
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RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:13 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 56):
one should suggest to VS to do the same by exchanging 6 A380s for 12-15 A333s but of the IGW version which can fly nonstop from LHR to U.S. West Coast / JNB / BLR (future route) / IAH (future route) / Brazil (future route) without any payload restrictions.

Alas, Virgin deems it better to operate to Manchester from Heathrow. BLR would be good for Virgin as they have the west-coast USA connections that LH does so well on.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
TC957
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RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:04 am

If VS do take their 2001-ordered A380's in 2017, that'll be 16 years after they ordered them !! Is that some kind of record for aircraft being ordered and delivered ?
A lot can happen in the next 5 years that will dictate whether the 380 is needed or not. If VS's market share is being eroded on important business travel routes by BA 380's then VS will have to comply or die and have a comparable or better product.
 
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Ncfc99
Posts: 786
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:52 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 44):
There was an advert. It was pulled under protest I believe, but there was an advertisement in a paper or magazine.
Someone here once posted a scan of it.

In this advert that made 4 engines sound much safer than 2 engines.

Can't seem to find it, but it DID exist.

If we are thinking of the same advert, IIRC it was an Airbus advert, not a VS advert. I seem to remember it was used in a thread discussing someting a Boeing executive had said (maybe Randy ?????(whatever his surname is)).

Quoting TC957 (Reply 58):
If VS do take their 2001-ordered A380's

Was it really 2001 (if it was, i'm getting old), I remember it as 2004-2005ish, could anyone confirm either way.
 
behramjee
Posts: 5144
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:38 am

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 59):
Was it really 2001 (if it was, i'm getting old), I remember it as 2004-2005ish, could anyone confirm either way.

yes April 26th 2001...click here Virgin Atlantic Confirms Order For SIX A380s (by Sndp Apr 26 2001 in Civil Aviation)
 
sevenheavy
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:30 am

RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:06 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 55):

With regards to sending the B744 to HKG/SYD, not necessarily. For the simple reason that it would essentially use 4 out of the 5 LHR configured B744's. VS could fill it, but it is a very inefficient way to use such a small fleet.

The HKG/SYD route does very well. If VS had spare B744 capacity they would use it but it just isn't an option.
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8358
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:52 pm

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 61):
The HKG/SYD route does very well. If VS had spare B744 capacity they would use it but it just isn't an option.

If HKG SYD is doing very well why are return J fares on the HKG SYD leg usually US$800 less than either CX or QF.

Random dates picked on kayak just now VS $3605, CX $4361 QF $6024

In Economy VS $1205 QF $1368 CX $1752

(amazingly, the cheapest London to Sydney is $3320 with China Eastern in J class)
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting 135mech (Reply 52):
The future of Virgin’s 11-year-old order for six A380s “very much depends on the state of the global economy and the oil price”, says Ridgway, with deliveries slated for 2017. “It’s a lovely, quiet aircraft but it’s very big and you need to operate it on some very big trunks and you need to have a big enough fleet,” he says.

What a strange statement, almost childish '“It’s a lovely, quiet aircraft but it’s very big"!

The second part seems to discount it as well " you need to operate it on some very big trunks and you need to have a big enough fleet" which infers that six isn't a big enough fleet.

Also, are they pinning their hopes on the price of fuel reducing?!!
 
anstar
Posts: 3342
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:05 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 62):

If HKG SYD is doing very well why are return J fares on the HKG SYD leg usually US$800 less than either CX or QF.

Not sure about CX - but QF are usually much more expensive than other carriers EX Australia.
 
lostsound
Posts: 696
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 1:43 pm

RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:21 pm

A whole A380 done up in Virgin's purple-ambient lighting atmosphere with those black leather seats would be an amazing plane to fly! Hope they stick to it.
 
sevenheavy
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:30 am

RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 62):

VS being cheaper than the competition has no direct link to whether the route is profitable for them or not. Besides, whilst I have no reason to doubt your figures you would need a far broader sample size to draw any conclusions one way or the other
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
columba
Posts: 5247
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Virgin Will Soon Select A 744 And A346 Replacement

Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:43 pm

Too bad I was hoping that they will order the 747-8I, but I guess this won´t happen. My bet it will be the A350-1000 so they continue to have a mixed Airbus / Boeing fleet
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