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Luxair
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Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:36 am

My apologizes if this has been posted before but you need to see to believe it  
Amazing takeoff of an Antonov somewhere in Russia out of a runway of mud! Have fun

http://www.telegraaf.mobi/article/13...7842/vliegtuig-start-in-de-blubber
 
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EK413
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:05 pm

Quoting Luxair (Thread starter):

That's an amazing takeoff... Curious how the aircraft would perform with the additional drag (mud)...

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
musang
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:07 pm

I would say that is slush, partially melted snow, combined with dirt. I wonder how much extra weight its carrying on the rear fuselage!

Interesting, as this is the sort of thing we are conditioned to be very careful about, due to the difficulty in assessing exactly how much drag the slush will cause. Take-off calculations (max weight, and speeds) are done for a few different conditions e.g. dry, wet, water/slush up to 3 mm, dry snow up to 50 mm, water or slush up to 13 mm etc. etc., and beyond a certain depth, the drag increases exponentially to the point where the aircraft cannot continue accelerating (The Munich Manchester United accident) and probably can't stop.

My experience doesn't allow me to guess how deep the slush is in the video. Never seen anything like it!

Regards - musang
 
Gatorman96
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:30 pm

Awesome! It looks like they are trying to give AF a run for their money on world's dirtiest planes...
 
Luxair
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:17 pm

When i saw the video i wasn't sure if he will get the plane airborne but gosh we have to agree here that those Russian's have Balls...big Balls hahaha
 
Unflug
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:20 pm

This link from the other thread (which will probably be deleted, since it is a duplicate) works a bit better on my system:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5c1_1350976434
 
holzmann
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:21 pm

I guess global warming isn't doing those Siberian runways any favors.
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rcair1
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:45 pm

Quoting musang (Reply 2):
I would say that is slush, partially melted snow, combined with dirt. I wonder how much extra weight its carrying on the rear fuselage!

It seems like FOD and damage to the props would be of great concern - that FLG is throwing 'crap' into the props over and over again.

Baddo
rcair1
 
n797mx
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:41 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 1):
Curious how the aircraft would perform with the additional drag (mud)...

Sluggish, like a wet sponge?  
Clear skies and strong tail winds.
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:42 pm

Well, THAT a/c is going to need an exterior cleaning on it's next R.O.N.   
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
usafret
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:56 pm

Holy cow--talk about rattling your tray tables and the overheads. Only in Russia!
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:31 pm

That looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Think about the mud getting into the props/engine intakes, landing gear bays, pitot static system, what else?! I could easily see the headline "Russian airliner crashes at Siberian airport". That country must have some pretty lax aviation rules which in this company's case probably involves the exchange of six figure cash amounts.
If you flew today, thank a Flight Dispatcher!
 
skytony
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:32 pm

There is another video with a take off from the same airport but from inside the plane.
Lower your expectations! You will always be pleasantly surprised!
 
Alnicocunife
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:47 pm

I guess you then have to fly through a thunderstorm to get it cleaned and "electrically" dried?
 
oneskyjet
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting musang (Reply 2):

Most amazingly dangerous takeoff I've ever seen on video. I hope there weren't passengers onboard, though the aircraft looked heavy.

I can only assume the captain had no idea of the runway conditions he was facing. Looks to me like him almost lost it a few times during the takeoff "roll". Also it looks like he used up almost all of the available runway.

Basically, I'd say this guy avoided a serious accident by amazing luck and to the pilots credit, some pretty impressive airmanship; once he was committed to taking off (well before v1), this pilot got the plane in the air.

Anyone aware of the circumstance of this flight? Did he fly to his destination or land at the nearest alternate?

Amazing...
 
airproxx
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:04 pm

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 3):
Awesome! It looks like they are trying to give AF a run for their money on world's dirtiest planes...

I was just wondering how long we should wait until the old traditional booing about AF comes up again.
Sorry, sounds a bit outdated though...
If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
 
as739x
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:09 pm

Can I get a window wash Gate 4 please!!!!
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:13 pm

Quoting musang (Reply 2):

it's interesting that the Western assumption for slush (based on the safest scenario) is of course that slush increases drag regardless of ground speed.
It does seem in the video that whereas the aircraft's acceleration is visibly impaired at first, it eventually starts aquaplaning, which seems to dramatically decrease the drag effect of the slush and allows it to gather more speed.

This is either a display of dumb luck or amazing experience of operating in these conditions. This being Russia, I'm voting for a mix of both...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
airproxx
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:41 pm

Quoting Reply 14):

Basically, I'd say this guy avoided a serious accident by amazing luck and to the pilots credit, some pretty impressive airmanship; once he was committed to taking off (well before v1), this pilot got the plane in the air.

Funny but your sentence makes me think that we (occidental pilots and/or aviation enthusiasts) and these guys have two radically opposed concepts of what we still call "commercial aviation".

In EU, USA, Some rich Asia's countries too, we share a vision of a very "sterilized" aviation, built over years and years of common knowledge accumulated after many events/experiences (sometimes unfortunately fatal events) and forcing aviation officials to react and move to a "safer" aviation.
But in some remote places, due to multiple factors (that we tend to forget in our countries), some airlines and pilots are an answer to a demand, that our "safe" yet restrictive vision of aviation cannot satisfy.

I remember some years ago, seeing one of these giant beast, an Antonov 225, picking up some electrical substations, out of Chateauroux (CHR) and taking it to Indonesia, following the tsunami disaster. It was obvious that every rules like MTOW, MLW, MZFW, Nav database, Crew fatigue, and so on.., were completely far out of concern!
But (there's always a "but"), this aircraft, and crew, and situation overall were completely necessary, and the only response to this tragic situation, and to victims of a massive disaster.
Then, who's to blame? The airline? The crew, accepting this? The tsunami victims? Indonesia? Aviation?? Smart who can answer.

My opinion is, there will always be both aviation.
There'll always be "Russians crazy pilots" and "gentle" pilots.
We need both! Cowboys and Attorneys.

I'm not saying one aviation is better than the other, I'm just witnessing it.


But while I see some of us arguing about the fact that we should consider in takeoff performances, some millimeters of slush, and some millimeters of water, of dry snow, of wet snow, I'm just saying to myself that if this guys in their Antonov made it, it's maybe because they just knew they would...! They know their aircraft and its limitations, those the manufacturer publishes, and those the pilots discover by themselves...

Truth is, they're not attorneys guys, neither cowboys.
They're just .... Pilots.
If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
 
Gatorman96
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:50 pm

Quoting airproxx (Reply 15):
I was just wondering how long we should wait until the old traditional booing about AF comes up again.
Sorry, sounds a bit outdated though...

Feel better now?

Yes, there were passengers on board and the pilots certainly knew the conditions they were facing since they taxied down the runway before turning around and taking off:

Interior View of Takeoff
 
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Aesma
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:36 am

Well, Russian (and most African) roads are incredibly unsafe so flying like that is probably still considered safe.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
EXMEMWIDGET
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:50 am

Engine failure between V1 and V2 could have made things quite interesting.
Ex DL and NW, current FX.
 
flyerboy1990
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:32 am

That was absolutely crazy. And then I watched the inside video. I would have been terrified! While I understand that some of these locations in the world warrant some "real flying," I feel this takeoff was truly dangerous and shouldn't have happened. For the more adventurous folk, you can't tell me you would have been OK with this experience!
Flown in: 712, 722, 73G, 738, 752, DC10, CR2, CR9, A319, A320 Want to fly in: A330, 767, 777, MD80, E170 series
 
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beau222
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:35 am

Take off roll from inside the cabin seemed much quicker from the view outside. Outside view seems to drag on.
 
holzmann
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:37 am

What? No treadmill jokes?
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pliersinsight
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:09 am

I'd hate to live in the village off the end of the runway, it must rain mud with some regularity on the houses, cars and people.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:05 am

Really amazing takeoff indeed... These birds can operate from really harsh conditions, no wonder why old Antonovs still remain popular in all those poor African countries where they operate from dirt roads and horrible runways every day.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
AF1624
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:23 am

It did look very heavy though, and it bounced on the runway once after rotation which is never a good sign. Plus the climb gradient after rotation wasn't brilliant at all...
Cheers
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:24 am

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 19):
Yes, there were passengers on board and the pilots certainly knew the conditions they were facing since they taxied down the runway before turning around and taking off:

Interior View of Takeoff

That was some scary video as well.

What a dangerous take-off! The electromagnetic disturbances from the camera could have affected flight controls and caused the plane to crash 
Quoting beau222 (Reply 23):
Take off roll from inside the cabin seemed much quicker from the view outside. Outside view seems to drag on.

I thought so too. Maybe a different take-off?
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:32 am

Like a 4X4 Land Rover - and just as filthy!
 
Fuling
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:40 am

Wow that is pretty cool! It would be cool to see in person but I am sure I will leave that place on a train instead :P

How about landing? I doubt it would have landing in these conditions, but is it possible? Is there a video?

Happy Flying!
 
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abletofly
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:14 am

It's not the same video from inside the aircraft. The ground is snow covered on one video and it's grass covered from inside the aircraft. But very impressive videos what so ever!  

Thanks for sharing.

///A
 
aerosol
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:17 am

Honestly - I consider this as extremely dangenrous - what happens if that stuff freezes the gear or the elevators?
 
AF185
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:22 am

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 28):
What a dangerous take-off! The electromagnetic disturbances from the camera could have affected flight controls and caused the plane to crash

HAHA!! that one cracked me up
 
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Owleye
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:54 am

FOOLS to fly like that. And than they are surprised that soo many aircraft in these regions crash...
 
maxter
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:13 am

Quoting Reply 14):

Most amazingly dangerous takeoff I've ever seen on video.

Speaking of Russian aircraft take off's, this will give it a run for it's money...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyvY2GK9B3M

Cheers,
maxter
 
varigb707
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:06 am

Quoting holzmann (Reply 6):
guess global warming isn't doing those Siberian runways any favors.

"“Global warming is an average increase in the temperature of the atmosphere near the Earth’s surface and in the troposphere, which can contribute to changes in global climate patterns."

"Global warming refers to a slight but noticeable increase in temperature at the planetary scale. The results are not just merely warmer weather, but an erratic climate that if left unchecked could cause pervasive natural disasters and species extinction."

More information on Global Warming :
http://www.definitionofglobalwarming.com/
First, I said 'hey' and then I said 'now'. "Hey Now!" - Hank K.
 
Dufo
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:07 am

The fact is that not many airplanes are able to operate in such conditions. But these can and do. Of course there is a greater chance of something nasty happening but you cannot compare this to super sterile and cautious operations elsewhere.
I seriously think I just creamed my pants without any influence from any outside variables.
 
Viper911
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:27 am

Since I'm Russian I have the right to say it.

Only in Russia...

Viper911.
 
shufflemoomin
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:48 am

Quoting airproxx (Reply 15):
I was just wondering how long we should wait until the old traditional booing about AF comes up again.

You don't really have much of a sense of humour, do you? Perhaps lighten up a little? Besides, in every joke there's a grain of truth. Never heard that saying?
 
Fuling
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting maxter (Reply 35):
Speaking of Russian aircraft take off's, this will give it a run for it's money...

Here's another of SU B763 in Hong Kong. Maybe many of you have seen it already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb7Mkw9_rL0
 
RussianJet
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:50 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 20):
Well, Russian (and most African) roads are incredibly unsafe so flying like that is probably still considered safe.

Roads? Out in that neck of the woods, roads probably won't get you very far unless it's winter and the rivers are drivable.

It's all very well every throwing their hands up about safety or going on about lax safety and corruption, but the reality is that there is next to no choice at certain times of year in parts of the country like that.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
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Aesma
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:43 pm

That's exactly what I'm saying. In Africa where these planes operate, there often are "roads", but flying is considered safer.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
airproxx
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 19):
Feel better now?

Actually I do. About you?

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 39):
You don't really have much of a sense of humour, do you? Perhaps lighten up a little? Besides, in every joke there's a grain of truth. Never heard that saying?

I have a sense of humour, but the shortest jokes are the best. This usual AF thing... I'm just getting tired of it.
If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
 
Gatorman96
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting airproxx (Reply 43):

I have a sense of humour, but the shortest jokes are the best. This usual AF thing... I'm just getting tired of it.

Wow, you have a photo album of dirty aircraft other than AF in your profile. I didn't realize this was such a sensitive subject for you. I will certainly never use this joke again so as to not upset you...

[Edited 2012-10-25 11:03:41]
 
Viscount724
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:57 pm

Quoting Dufo (Reply 37):
The fact is that not many airplanes are able to operate in such conditions. But these can and do. Of course there is a greater chance of something nasty happening but you cannot compare this to super sterile and cautious operations elsewhere.

Weather conditions in much of Canada are very similar to Siberia but I doubt that takeoff would have occurred on a Canadian carrier, even at remote airports in the far northern regions.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:18 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 45):
Weather conditions in much of Canada are very similar to Siberia but I doubt that takeoff would have occurred on a Canadian carrier, even at remote airports in the far northern regions.

Yup, except Russia isn't Canada, and to state the obvious - is way less developed in parts. In places like you see in the film, there is no tarmac for the aircraft. I would guess that in parts of canada that remote there are probably better strips, and while climatic conditions in Canada are similar to many parts of Russia, and Canada is a huge country, Russia is a hell of a lot more huge with far less money devolved to the lower echelons.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
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Ty134A
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:57 am

There is andifferent approach to flying in Russia. It always makes me laugh, when I thunder around on those AN4s, AN6s and A28s, no one bothers you with your carry on liquids, and you can call friends upon take off. Oh, and feel free to film and visit the flight deck for a drink...

I wonder why UT doesn't use their ATRs to (I think this airport in the video is) Bodaibo?

In the case of this take off, I am pretty sure the crew was aware of the conditions, don't forget, they landed the plane and turned it around (on average in about 2 h on those airports). I know that they operate lots of flights under these conditions, not only UT, KatekAvia comes to mind, or ARZ 403 Angara... And yes they have crashes, but as a result of material fatigue or technical malfunctions. So far airmanship was not an issue.

The only thing I'm concerned of is, that western aircraft are spreading faster than the infrastructure standards they need to operate. If you compare the ATRs in the fleet of UT with their AN4s, I know what aircraft you would choose. Even though they beat their ANs as hell, they look better by far, not only from the inside...
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sovietjet
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:01 pm

I think the two videos are actually two different flights. People, these types of operations are perfectly regular in many remote Siberian airports. Furthermore, the Antonov was designed from the very beginning to handle this. I personally don't see a problem. Is it a challenging takeoff? Sure. Is it unsafe? I don't really think so.

Instead of making wild speculations about safety, maybe it would be wise to consult with a.net member, photographer and former An-24 pilot "ivandalavia" who apparently used to fly regularly into this exact airport (Bodaybo). There's photos...

https://www.airliners.net/search/phot...o%20%28UIKB%29&distinct_entry=true

You can see in one of them that the runway is not paved. You can also see in this one what the runway can typically look like in spring (and I assume fall as well).


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © ivandalavia



The comment he wrote is noteworthy:

"4 seasons from Bodaybo.Second season-Spring.Runways very hard for landing,as a rally-"PARIS-DAKAR"

So while this is "only in Russia" it is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just that the media now got a hold of video which they can sensationalize.
 
citationjet
Posts: 2563
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RE: Antonov Amazing (mud) Takeoff

Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting maxter (Reply 35):
Speaking of Russian aircraft take off's, this will give it a run for it's money...

Those Russian aircraft definitely like to make use of the entire runway.....

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui

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