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tzadik
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:19 pm

I vaguely remember reading or hearing that american got some 777's from an asian carrier or 777's that were originally destined to be delivered to an asian carrier. I flew on N751AN yesterday and all of the placards were in both english and in asian characters (forgive me i don't know what language). Just curious if anyone knows. Thanks!!!
 
CF-CPI
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:30 pm

Some 777s were used on AA's runs from the west coast to HND, so I suspect that is the origin of the Asian placards. At one time, AA maintained separate 777 fleets for Asia and Europe, with different internal configurations. This was done away with a few years back, and I believe all the 777-228s have identical internals now. I would be curious if the placards were originally only found in the Pacific aircraft. Regardless, I haven't heard that any of them had been handed down from Asian carriers, or original builds for Asian airlines.
 
BoeingGuy
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:30 pm

The placards were probably in Japanese since AA flies their 777s to NRT (among other places).

Not aware that AA got an 777s from anywhere other than direct delivery from Boeing.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:01 pm

That airplane was delivered to AA in April 2001, and has only ever flown for AA. It was never supposed to go to any other airline.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
tzadik
Topic Author
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:20 pm

guess i just find it strange that the placards are in both english and japanese. figured they would have gone with spanish.
 
BoeingGuy
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:28 pm

Quoting tzadik (Reply 4):
guess i just find it strange that the placards are in both english and japanese. figured they would have gone with spanish.

Yeah, great idea except they don't speak Spanish in GRU and GIG. Maybe they can try Estonian in the 77Ws?
 
tzadik
Topic Author
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:38 pm

your humor is lost on me. sorry boss
 
iFlyLOTs
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:55 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5):
Yeah, great idea except they don't speak Spanish in GRU and GIG.

They do in EZE and MIA though, and seeing as how Spanish is one of the fastest frowning languages in the U.S. it wouldn't be too crazy for them to do that.
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
roseflyer
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:28 pm

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 7):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5):
Yeah, great idea except they don't speak Spanish in GRU and GIG.

They do in EZE and MIA though, and seeing as how Spanish is one of the fastest frowning languages in the U.S. it wouldn't be too crazy for them to do that.

Some US airlines do have placards in English and Spanish. AS has Spanish on their 737 fleet.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
gegarrenton
Posts: 203
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:35 pm

Quoting tzadik (Reply 4):
guess i just find it strange that the placards are in both english and japanese. figured they would have gone with spanish.

You find it strange that planes that fly DFW NRT have Japanese and not Spanish placards? Really?
 
MakeMinesLAX
Posts: 482
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:22 am

Origin Of Some American 777's

Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:37 pm

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 7):
Spanish is one of the fastest frowning languages in the U.S

I certainly frown to see what I feel is excessive accommodation for non-English speakers. I'm not an "official language" proponent by any means, but at some point you have to consider how much incentive there is not to learn the language.

Back on topic: I think Europeans are masters at dealing with multiple languages within small geographic areas - they rely heavily on pictographs. Seems like the right way to do it on an aircraft visiting multiple ports-of-call.
 
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hhslax2
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:45 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 8):
Some US airlines do have placards in English and Spanish. AS has Spanish on their 737 fleet.

Which is fine for a domestic fleet, but the 777s are mainly international planes. The 777s don't visit enough Spanish speaking destinations to warrant having Spanish placards.
 
OB1504
Posts: 4000
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:52 am

Quoting MakeMinesLAX (Reply 10):
I certainly frown to see what I feel is excessive accommodation for non-English speakers. I'm not an "official language" proponent by any means, but at some point you have to consider how much incentive there is not to learn the language.

But if the 777 is flying to SCL, EZE, et al, the official language there is Spanish, so...
 
tzadik
Topic Author
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Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:40 am

Quoting gegarrenton (Reply 9):
You find it strange that planes that fly DFW NRT have Japanese and not Spanish placards? Really?

your argument is ridiculous... yes the very same plane that also makes LAX to PDG runs.
 
crAAzy
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:02 am

Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:06 am

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 1):
Some 777s were used on AA's runs from the west coast to HND, so I suspect that is the origin of the Asian placards. At one time, AA maintained separate 777 fleets for Asia and Europe, with different internal configurations.

The configuration was the same for all of AA's 777s traveling to Japan (various cities) and I think these planes also flew into Taipei.
  

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 1):
This was done away with a few years back, and I believe all the 777-228s have identical internals now.

   All Flagship Suites now.

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 1):
I would be curious if the placards were originally only found in the Pacific aircraft.

Yes the were. No longer the case since these birds can be seen flying anywhere in AA's system

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 1):
Regardless, I haven't heard that any of them had been handed down from Asian carriers, or original builds for Asian airlines.

All of AA's 777s have been new deliveries.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:52 am

Quoting gegarrenton (Reply 9):
You find it strange that planes that fly DFW NRT have Japanese and not Spanish placards? Really?

then turns around and does NRT-ORD-PVG-LAX-MIA-GRU-MIA-LHR......
so yeah Japaneses is a bit odd, but i'm not sure Spanish would be better.

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 1):
777-228s

777-223/ER

28 is Air France......
 
n737aa
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:27 pm

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 14):
The configuration was the same for all of AA's 777s traveling to Japan (various cities) and I think these planes also flew into Taipei

All AA 777's were factory deliveries and they never flew to TPE.

N737AA
 
gegarrenton
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:50 pm

Quoting tzadik (Reply 13):

your argument is ridiculous... yes the very same plane that also makes LAX to PDG runs.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 15):
then turns around and does NRT-ORD-PVG-LAX-MIA-GRU-MIA-LHR......
so yeah Japaneses is a bit odd, but i'm not sure Spanish would be better.

I'm just taking a wild guess that both of you have missed the fact that there was a dedicated Asian 777 fleet, which has been alluded to several times in this thread.
 
commavia
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:16 pm

AA's 777s were all new, factory-delivered, and many (if not all) have always included Japanese-language signage because the planes were originally envisioned, from day one, to be used heavily on AA's NRT flights (which at the time the first 777s were delivered consisted of DFW/ORD/SJC/SEA).

Quoting N737AA (Reply 16):
All AA 777's were factory deliveries and they never flew to TPE.

Yes they did. AA briefly flew SJC-TPE in 2001.
 
aquariusHKG
Posts: 37
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:23 pm

Quoting N737AA (Reply 16):
All AA 777's were factory deliveries and they never flew to TPE.

N737AA

Is the 777 around when AA flew SJC - TPE?
 
[email protected]
Posts: 75
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:37 pm

Yes, American did receive their 777's direct from Boeing; but they placed their orders very late in the game. Due to the Asian financial crisis of the late 90's American Airlines was able to secure earlier delivery slots which previously had been destined for Asian carries which wished to defer their orders.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting aquariusHKG (Reply 19):
Is the 777 around when AA flew SJC - TPE?

Yes, SJC-TPE was flown with a 777 for its six month lifespan. SJC-NRT and SEA-NRT had already switched from an MD-11 to 777 before that time also.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting gegarrenton (Reply 17):
I'm just taking a wild guess that both of you have missed the fact that there was a dedicated Asian 777 fleet, which has been alluded to several times in this thread.

Why let a silly thing like facts get in the way of a good argument?

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 20):
American did receive their 777's direct from Boeing; but they placed their orders very late in the game.

Very interesting, I did not realize this. I remember a Discovery Channel show touting the 777 and featuring AA's new 777s, which I thought had come out right about the 777 came on the market. Apparently not! I looked at Boeing's order site. It says that AA ordered two 777-300s in December, 2001! What happened to those orders?
 
justinlee
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:15 pm

Quoting hhslax2 (Reply 11):
Which is fine for a domestic fleet, but the 777s are mainly international planes. The 777s don't visit enough Spanish speaking destinations to warrant having Spanish placards.

Come and visit the town I live (a small town in Upstate New York)! Even buses here have spanish directions...US has a larger spanish speaking population than Spain!
 
AAIL86
Posts: 466
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 2):
The placards were probably in Japanese since AA flies their 777s to NRT (among other places).

Back in the early 2000s, AA had two 777 subfleets they designated "atlantic" (772A) and "pacific" (772P). The "atlantic" birds had the current first class seat (config F16 J56 Y165 ~ {sorry, I can't remember the exact Y seat count}). The "pacific" birds had the old first class with 2-2-2 seating (fully flat seats - but no ability to rotate like the current seats config F18 J56 Y165 ~)

The "pacific" birds were the ones fitted with signs in Japanese over the exits and elsewhere. Operationally, both subfleets were swapped out often- so in practice the distinction didn't matter for much. When AA fitted the current first class seat fleetwide they ended the subfleet designation....
" Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness ... Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ” - Mark Twain, 1869
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:40 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 22):
I looked at Boeing's order site. It says that AA ordered two 777-300s in December, 2001! What happened to those orders?

Those were actually B-777-300ERs, ordered the same day (12/31/2001) as five B-777-200ERs. They (the B-77Ws) were later canceled and reordered almost 10 years late, in Jan. 2011. In late 2001 the airline industry in the US had taken a bad down turn due to the 9/11 attacks, and AA was going through the TWA merger and still in pain from the AA-587 disaster. AA, like most other airlines in the US at the time was shedding capacity and parking (eventually scrapping or selling) many older airplanes like the MD-11, B-727, DC-10, etc. AA had leased a few MD-11s to SAA, and sold the rest for P2F conversions, when the SAA MD-11s returned after a few years, they were converted P2F too. DL sold their MD-11s to UPS for P2F conversion. AA would not need the capacity of the B-77W for another 10 years, but still needed the B-77E for international service.
 
commavia
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 21):
Yes, SJC-TPE was flown with a 777 for its six month lifespan. SJC-NRT and SEA-NRT had already switched from an MD-11 to 777 before that time also.

Yep. If I remember correctly, the 777 from NRT would come into SJC, turn to TPE, RON at TPE, then turn back to SJC and then go out to NRT and rotate through the rest of the network over NRT.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 26):
Those were actually B-777-300ERs, ordered the same day (12/31/2001) as five B-777-200ERs. They (the B-77Ws) were later canceled and reordered almost 10 years late, in Jan. 2011.

I do not believe that is correct. To my knowledge AA never ordered any 777-300ERs prior to January 2011. Every prior AA 777 order was only ever for the -200ER (originally called -200IGW). The 2 777-300ERs on Boeing's site may be referring to -200ER orders originally placed in 2001 that have now recently been converted to -300ERs.
 
jfk777
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:57 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 26):
etc. AA had leased a few MD-11s to SAA, and sold the rest for P2F conversions, when the SAA MD-11s returned after a few years, they were converted P2F too. DL sold their MD-11s to UPS for P2F conversion. AA would not need the capacity of the B-77W for another 10 years, but still needed the B-77E for international service.

AA never leased planes to SAA they leased some MD-11's to an airline called US Africa which flew from Dulles to JNB.
 
olddominion727
Posts: 465
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 1):

AA never flew to HND (Tokyo Haneda) from the West Coast, just Tokyo Nartia. City code is TYO
 
hiflyer
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:02 pm

Ok...did not the original fleet on the AA property come from refused DL builds?.....hence the smaller cargo doors aft?
 
brilondon
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:04 pm

Quoting tzadik (Reply 4):
guess i just find it strange that the placards are in both english and japanese. figured they would have gone with spanish.
Quoting justinlee (Reply 24):
Come and visit the town I live (a small town in Upstate New York)! Even buses here have spanish directions...US has a larger spanish speaking population than Spain!

Well since I am from Canada, and am of Irish/Scottish decent I think especially since more Irish and Sottish people live in the United States then in their respective countries, maybe they should also be in Gaelic.

Seriously, the people who come from anywhere would want their respective language printed on the cards. You can't possibly have every possible language in the world written on the cards. IMO.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
Jetmarc
Posts: 497
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:15 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 15):
then turns around and does NRT-ORD-PVG-LAX-MIA-GRU-MIA-LHR......
so yeah Japaneses is a bit odd, but i'm not sure Spanish would be better.

Japanese and Chinese both use many of the same characters, despite different pronounciations and Brazil has the largest population of Japanese outside of Japan... so maybe it works better than we think!   
"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
 
plateman
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:02 am

Flew on an AA 777 and asked the purser about the Japanese charters, he told me all the triple 7s for AA have it
"Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3582
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:14 am

Quoting jetMARC (Reply 33):
Japanese and Chinese both use many of the same characters, despite different pronounciations

And they often have the same meaning too. While it's not guaranteed, a Chinese person can often read a Japanese sentence and understand it, and vice versa. While they sound totally different, Japanese is originally derived from Chinese so they have a lot in common. Given the simple text on airliner placards, it wouldn't surprise me if they were intentionally written so they could be understood in both languages (though I'd have to see one to know if that was even possibly true... it depends on the alphabet used).

Quote:
Brazil has the largest population of Japanese outside of Japan...

This actually isn't true (curse you, Wikipedia!) - it has the largest population of Japanese ancestry outside of Japan, but many of those people actually cannot speak Japanese (and are not considered Japanese in Japan), or at least they can't speak it very well. It's like most Americans; I'm of German and Norwegian ancestry but I was born in the US, raised on English and I can't really speak or understand any more of my ancestral languages than any American can (I'm a bit better with German than Norwegian, though). Brazil is similar with Japanese; most of them speak Portugese and English and maybe a little Japanese if they studied well and listened to their parents or grandparents. So I don't think that would be a good reason for the Japanese placards...

Anyway, the "Atlantic" and "Pacific" subfleet explanation sounds right.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
gegarrenton
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:32 pm

RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:27 pm

Quoting plateman (Reply 34):
Flew on an AA 777 and asked the purser about the Japanese charters, he told me all the triple 7s for AA have it

That absolutely not true. I fly on non Japanese 772's all the time.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 35):

This actually isn't true (curse you, Wikipedia!) - it has the largest population of Japanese ancestry outside of Japan, but many of those people actually cannot speak Japanese (and are not considered Japanese in Japan), or at least they can't speak it very well. It's like most Americans; I'm of German and Norwegian ancestry but I was born in the US, raised on English and I can't really speak or understand any more of my ancestral languages than any American can (I'm a bit better with German than Norwegian, though). Brazil is similar with Japanese; most of them speak Portugese and English and maybe a little Japanese if they studied well and listened to their parents or grandparents. So I don't think that would be a good reason for the Japanese placards...

Anyway, the "Atlantic" and "Pacific" subfleet explanation sounds right.

I am English decent and sometimes can't understand the English either.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 29):
Ok...did not the original fleet on the AA property come from refused DL builds?.....hence the smaller cargo doors aft?

AA started getting their 777-200ERs in Jan 1999, DL in Mar 1999. I believe AA was involved with the 777 in the design process, as were many other airlines, and was a driver of the "folding wingtip". They didn't initially order the airplane and the folding wingtip wasn't part of their plan when they did. They were the first 777 with an AOA (angle of attack) display in the cockpit.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6414
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RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 36):
They were the first 777 with an AOA (angle of attack) display in the cockpit.

The AOA display is custom option that was done only for AA and DL. Each airline's 737NGs, 777s and DL's 767-400s have it. Boeing accommodated their request for it, but it's not something the then-Boeing Chief Pilots preferred to put on the display as there is no Boeing procedure to use it. I'm pretty sure it wasn't developed for the 787 display software, and AA and DL agreed with that. Nor am I aware of any other customer other than AA or DL ever taking it on any model. As I said, it was not a catalog option, but something provided at AA's and DL's request.
 
aacun
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:47 am

RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:42 pm

Quoting gegarrenton (Reply 34):
That absolutely not true. I fly on non Japanese 772's all the time.

Every 777 I work on has them........so did the MD-11's

I think they all have the japanese signs in them.
Ill have to check and verify that.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:55 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 36):
I believe AA was involved with the 777 in the design process, as were many other airlines, and was a driver of the "folding wingtip". They didn't initially order the airplane and the folding wingtip wasn't part of their plan when they did. They were the first 777 with an AOA (angle of attack) display in the cockpit.

Both AA and DL were initial members of the 8 airlines that were a part of the working together group. Neither AA nor DL ordered the initial 777-200. They wanted the 200ER, so AA and DL didn't get any of the early build airplanes like 5 of the 8 airlines initially involved in the program did (QF backed out of the program entirely).
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
gegarrenton
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:32 pm

RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:31 pm

Quoting aacun (Reply 38):
Every 777 I work on has them........so did the MD-11's

I think they all have the japanese signs in them.
Ill have to check and verify that.

I guarantee they all don't. I keep a notebook of my long haul rides, and have notes for each.
 
CONTACREW
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm

RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:39 pm

Here's a couple of youtube vids of AA 777s. Looks like both of these videos have Japanese characters on the exit signs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdcY3VsQii8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjWK-XAVCnI
Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
 
n737aa
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:00 pm

RE: Origin Of Some American 777's

Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:54 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 18):

Yes they did. AA briefly flew SJC-TPE in 2001.
Quoting aquariusHKG (Reply 19):
Is the 777 around when AA flew SJC - TPE?
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 21):
Yes, SJC-TPE was flown with a 777 for its six month lifespan. SJC-NRT and SEA-NRT had already switched from an MD-11 to 777 before that time also.

I stand corrected, I forgot about that brief period in time when SJC was once something more than a very small spoke.

N737AA

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